EPTGoing from 73.5% damage taken to 100% damage taken is a 36% damage increase.
Going from any positive armor value to 0 armor is equal to a 6*armor value % damage increase.
[Hero] Clockwerk - Page 4
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Going from 73.5% damage taken to 100% damage taken is a 36% damage increase. Going from any positive armor value to 0 armor is equal to a 6*armor value % damage increase. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34490 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On April 26 2013 15:55 TheYango wrote: 26.5% damage reduction = 73.5% damage taken. Going from 73.5% damage taken to 100% damage taken is a 36% damage increase. Going from any positive armor value to 0 armor is equal to a 6*armor value % damage increase. It hurts my brain (For a professional programmer, I suck at math) but it makes sense. I'm surprised though, I thought the whole point was that making enemies go below 0 armor should be a massive increase in damage. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On April 26 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote: The maximum % damage gain you get out of Medallion is 36% (taking someone from 6 armor to 0 armor). Not to be pedantic, but it's actually 4 armor to -2 armor 111.6/80.6 = 1.3846 -> 38.5% damage increase (numbers using http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Armor)  On April 26 2013 16:14 Tobberoth wrote: It hurts my brain (For a professional programmer, I suck at math) but it makes sense. I'm surprised though, I thought the whole point was that making enemies go below 0 armor should be a massive increase in damage. It kind of is a massive increase in damage. TA with -14 armor (meld + deso) can nearly double your autoattack damage for targets near 6~7 armor. Same with slardar ult. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On April 26 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote: The maximum % damage gain you get out of Medallion is 36% (taking someone from 6 armor to 0 armor). Urn is 150 HP removal-typed damage. You have to do 450+ physical damage for Medallion to be worth more damage than Urn in an early gank situation, you're rarely getting that much physical damage in before they're dead. In most of those ganks, the target doesn't even have that much more than 1000 HP, and 4th rank nukes usually do ~200-250 damage after reductions. As the game progresses, your team does more damage, but the value of Medallion also gets weaker because the higher someone's armor is, the smaller of a % damage increase Medallion is worth (going from 16 armor to 10 armor is only a 22.5% damage increase). Combined with the fact that Urn has dual use as a regen item,and doesn't sacrifice its self-stats to use the active, Medallion only really outperforms Urn on the whole when coupled with other -armor effects (allowing you to bring people to or below zero armor even later on in the game), or when used with the specific goal of taking Roshan (since Roshan's armor is fixed the entire game). I don't want to be a douche but ~%20 damage increase in late game is figgin' good imho. It may mean, opponent carry hits 2-4 (infinite if alchemist) less and you can kill him before rampage. I am not debating urn over medallion and medallion is not good on clock either but late game is where enormous physical damage shines. Medallion is a tool for me even gets better at later stages. When team fights occur and 4-5 man focus on one so you can disintegrate with -6 armor. I think urn gets worse as the time passes. I am more and more side with casual medallion on heroes for mid to late game to save an orb slot for your team and your carry. | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
Since when did he start to get relevant in the pro scene? I know bulba likes playing him, but apart from that i hardly saw him. Why/when did he start to become relevant in the proscene? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34490 Posts
On April 28 2013 01:45 Garfailed wrote: In todays G1 league qualifiers ive noticed that clockwerk got banned in almost every single game :O Since when did he start to get relevant in the pro scene? I know bulba likes playing him, but apart from that i hardly saw him. Why/when did he start to become relevant in the proscene? About a month or so ago Liquid started using him a lot as a counter to Naix, among other things. The fact that cogs holds him down without having to deal with his Rage spell, as well as Hookshot interrupting through BKB/immunity, makes him very useful against him and other BKB carriers. Cogs is a great spell because it completely disrupts teamfights, bouncing everyone around etc. His initiation and scouting with Rockets and Hookshot is nothing to scoff at either. He's quite flexible in laning, being able to solo any of the lanes or even fit in aggressive trilanes. Other teams started picking him up shortly after. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 26 2013 16:15 synapse wrote: Not to be pedantic, but it's actually 4 armor to -2 armor 111.6/80.6 = 1.3846 -> 38.5% damage increase (numbers using http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Armor) That formula is wrong. The negative armor formula in DotA 2 is currently bugged to use the reverse of the positive armor formula (% damage reduction of positive armor = % damage reduction of same amount of negative armor). The wiki page assumes negative armor works the same as in DotA 1, which is incorrect. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34490 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On April 28 2013 07:54 Firebolt145 wrote: I don't know what you were thinking, trying to make Yango like a fool like that. Surely you would know better? Clearly I am the fool here T_T | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On April 28 2013 01:45 Garfailed wrote: In todays G1 league qualifiers ive noticed that clockwerk got banned in almost every single game :O Since when did he start to get relevant in the pro scene? I know bulba likes playing him, but apart from that i hardly saw him. Why/when did he start to become relevant in the proscene? Bulba has shown people the light  Super good with him | ||
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JeYKaY
United States73 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
hello everyone, i just want to give a small update WHen I first made this guide, Clockwerk was still a very questionable Hero. However times have changed ALOT since the release of this guide Currently in the Asian Scene, Clockwerk is being played as a Semicarry more than an offlane initiating disabling battle controlling fighting robit I am aware of this, and I will update the guide accordingly as soon as I get some time to rewrite the whole thing. This guide isn't THAT old, but i firmly believe almost everything I have written in this guide is outdated. I will make sure to update this guide as soon as possible! In the meantime please enjoy my old guide :D | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
In my opinion, cog control is a huge deal. The mechanics are important, cogs will suck in units in melee attack range but not further, and it will knockback units within 300 units. You can cog people up cliffs, and if you cog next to the map border (mainly the sideshop), you will double knockback. Also cogging to ensure a last hit or even last hit a range creep AND ensure a melee last hit is really good, but takes a lot of practice. If you cog in the middle of the creep wave, it's a little hard to predict what happens, but if you understand it, it's important. Walking out of the cogs will always burn the enemy, so right before the enemy leaves you can knock a cog out and run out and hope they follow, or force staff them out for extra damage. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On May 22 2013 15:44 MrHoon wrote: hello everyone, i just want to give a small update WHen I first made this guide, Clockwerk was still a very questionable Hero. However times have changed ALOT since the release of this guide Currently in the Asian Scene, Clockwerk is being played as a Semicarry more than an offlane initiating disabling battle controlling fighting robit I am aware of this, and I will update the guide accordingly as soon as I get some time to rewrite the whole thing. This guide isn't THAT old, but i firmly believe almost everything I have written in this guide is outdated. I will make sure to update this guide as soon as possible! In the meantime please enjoy my old guide :D Don't worry about it. If you play Clockwerk support or Clockwerk offlane or Clockwerk mid, the strategies and builds are entirely different. Also Clockwerk builds are highly situational and more so that some other heroes. Looking forward to the update. | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
On May 22 2013 15:44 MrHoon wrote: hello everyone, i just want to give a small update WHen I first made this guide, Clockwerk was still a very questionable Hero. However times have changed ALOT since the release of this guide Currently in the Asian Scene, Clockwerk is being played as a Semicarry more than an offlane initiating disabling battle controlling fighting robit I am aware of this, and I will update the guide accordingly as soon as I get some time to rewrite the whole thing. This guide isn't THAT old, but i firmly believe almost everything I have written in this guide is outdated. I will make sure to update this guide as soon as possible! In the meantime please enjoy my old guide :D Awesome, im looking forward to it, i've been experimenting with clock builds myself alot too, so im really curious what your devious mind can come up with next | ||
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Ryrmidon
Canada371 Posts
On April 28 2013 01:45 Garfailed wrote: In todays G1 league qualifiers ive noticed that clockwerk got banned in almost every single game :O Since when did he start to get relevant in the pro scene? I know bulba likes playing him, but apart from that i hardly saw him. Why/when did he start to become relevant in the proscene? Not sure about the eastern scene, but in the west Teamliquid started playing him a lot a few months ago and it caught on. Just a case of teams not really knowing how good the hero was. He's also a solid choice against lifestealer, whos probably the most played carry in the game right now. | ||
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734pot
Australia294 Posts
On May 23 2013 23:05 Ryrmidon wrote: Not sure about the eastern scene, but in the west Teamliquid started playing him a lot a few months ago and it caught on. Just a case of teams not really knowing how good the hero was. He's also a solid choice against lifestealer, whos probably the most played carry in the game right now. I've also heard a lot of pro players say that he is fairly good against magnus as well. I guess the fact that he can be strong as either a support or a solo makes him quite a powerful pick in the first stage of a draft as it doesn't fully reveal your lanes. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
First of all, what is he supposed to do for your team? In teamfights I'm never sure whether I should go for something I can kill, maximum carnage or to disrupt the opponents carry. Am I looking to do maximum damage or to survive? Do I initiate for my team or do I wait for fights to start and cherrypick my targets? Am I trying to get items or giving up farm to try and get kills? Forr items, currently I like going treads bottle, but it leaves me with too little mana to use a mech effectively. So I usually pick between blade mail (low HP burst opponents), necronomicon (invis opponents) or aghanims when I'm doing really well.But I'm not sure whether the hero is better played with defensive items like mech (icw arcanes), urn and forcestaff? Also there seem to be a lot of items that could be good on him, like shiva's, pipe and veil? Halp! | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 29 2013 23:16 Saechiis wrote: I've really taking a liking to this hero lately and I have some questions I hope someone could answer. First of all, what is he supposed to do for your team? In teamfights I'm never sure whether I should go for something I can kill, maximum carnage or to disrupt the opponents carry. Am I looking to do maximum damage or to survive? Do I initiate for my team or do I wait for fights to start and cherrypick my targets? Am I trying to get items or giving up farm to try and get kills? Forr items, currently I like going treads bottle, but it leaves me with too little mana to use a mech effectively. So I usually pick between blade mail (low HP burst opponents), necronomicon (invis opponents) or aghanims when I'm doing really well.But I'm not sure whether the hero is better played with defensive items like mech (icw arcanes), urn and forcestaff? Also there seem to be a lot of items that [i][could/i] be good on him, like shiva's, pipe and veil? Halp! A lot of these are situational! In teamfights, you want to consider the enemy team and your position in the game. If you're ahead, catching someone out that you can kill quickly is often a good idea. If you're behind or will die quickly, you'll want to wait for your team to be pretty close before you go on someone. If the other team has a melee carry with no blink/mobility spell, you pretty much should almost always buy a force staff, because you're essentially stopping him from attacking for several seconds with cogs. Cogs can also be used to split fights - jump in the middle of the enemy team? Cogs will likely split the fight and zone out an enemy hero or two if done properly. Generally past level 7ish you aren't sitting around farming lanes much, but obviously you want to pick up the farm that you can. Treads bottle is okay but situational. Most people will prefer phase as a kind of offensive/solo ganking item as you can chase better with battery assault, but treads is probably maximum dps (although very slightly). Phase is also quite strong in a 1v1 lane if you happen to have such a situaiton early on. If you do go treads/phase rather than arcane, bottle is a fine idea for your mana/health sustain, as you won't really have much otherwise. Generally you want to determine pretty early on with your team whether you're getting the mek or not. If you are, you'll probably want to pick up arcanes and focus more on team utility items. If you aren't, you can go for items that give you more solo-kill potential (but still also are useful in teamfights): blademail, force, etc. Urn or drums can also be decent choices if no one on your team is getting them, though I prefer to put urn on a support. After 1-2 "cheap" (under 3k like mek, blademail, force, drums) items, I'd almost always go for aghs. The cooldown is great for chasing, counter initiating, it just has so much utility compared to a clock without aghs imo. Other items like shivas, AC, pipe (I don't think veil is any good) can definitely be considered before or after aghs depending on your team's needs. Another thing that I strongly recommend against that is written in this guide is maxing Rocket Flare. This guide was written in a time where offlane clock was a bit more difficult to pull off - he greatly benefited from the creep equilibrium change because it is now much harder for supports to show up behind him, which made him fairly easy to kill even with cogs. You should usually be able to stay in xp range and even get some farm now even without a maxed rocket. 2 points in rocket can be okay if your opponents are aggressively denying, but usually supports won't stick around your lane too much in the current laning setup/meta, so you won't necessarily need to harass them out of lane (if they're constantly dedicating a full trilane you can get XP and be fine). Maxing rocket flare severely limits your kill potential once you hit level 6-7, which is where Clock really peaks in solo ganking power. As soon as you're 6-7 you can use a high leveled Battery Assault to TP/roam to another lane and get very easy kills with just 1 other hero. Skilling rocket flare makes you far less dangerous as soon as you leave the lane in exchange for only slightly better laning/farming ability, and really in the offlane your goal is to get levels and then go find kills. | ||
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