EPT[Hero] Lycan - Page 10
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
A no-ult no-boots no-Medallion Rosh is so absurdly risky as to be completely unreliable in a game with decent opponents. Vlad's before Boots can be situationally justifiable, but attempting a Rosh without ult/boots/Medallion is basically just gambling. | ||
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Mlcrosoft1
Croatia26 Posts
Yes, my 8 min rosh is unreliable but his 12 min rosh is fucking unexpected, i can get medallion in minute and a half and kill roshan then but this is better to start making impact earlier. Any builds that don't include stout do not work, they don't. You cannot kill any hard camp and you can only kill half of medium camps. It doesn't matter if you start with qb or without it, stout cannot be skipped. I got vlads stout and quelling in 6 mins on radiant side and can probably get sub 6 min on dire, im the king of effectiveness with playing lycan. | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
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Mlcrosoft1
Croatia26 Posts
On January 09 2014 09:30 Staboteur wrote: Regardless of how well you play or think you play Lycan, stomping into a thread and declaring that everything mentioned is ineffective and that you're the king of lycan effectiveness is massively douchey. You'll probably get further trying to actually contribute, instead of diving into the thread and trying to conquer it. i post a video where you can clearly see whats happening with 100% proof and 2 next replies are it's risky, it's shit and that op is getting some kind of boots in 2 mins, or something. didnt really understand what he said and here's your ranked: http://i.imgur.com/CO3UMuD.jpg i've won almost every ranked match i've played and would've passed 5 k long time ago but i didnt play ever since 23.12 due to exam season. http://dotabuff.com/players/98818567 you see before ranked introduced i'd very often be on first page http://dotabuff.com/matches/400920928 but now i have to get there with these points i guess... | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
You'd have to look at "Where are we, on average, at 15 minutes" or some other comparable thing to actually get any sort of insight into the merits of either build. And all you really add are that stout shields are good because then you can take large camps, and that you -can- vlads / stout / qb rush and do rosh really early... neither of which are earthshattering revelations. | ||
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Mlcrosoft1
Croatia26 Posts
why would you need boots? smoke and go into rosh pit, i didnt do it because it's practice vs bots but it's pretty obvious you smoke in serious games nobody expects/counters a 8 min roshan. People don't even belive it's possible with lycan anymore, 12 min however, there will be constant scouts because it's obvious lycan can do it at this point | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
On January 09 2014 09:58 Mlcrosoft1 wrote: 12 min however, there will be constant scouts because it's obvious lycan can do it at this point Not true in my experience at my level. The issue is yours is without any context whereas my build is what I've come up with from actually playing vs opponents. Things like skipping medallion may be fine with no opponents but your lack of mana is going to get you killed by a gank when you can't ulti away etc and unless you build medallion immediately afterwards you'll have no mana to do shit all game, you need that mana regen medallion gives you as a Lycan. Jungling with no boots is insanely risky generally and in practice you'll often have to back off or go fountain when people come to gank you which boots are great for. Go play some games and test yours vs mine, if you still think yours is better after that then come back. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
1v1 mid only mode, each player picks Lycan and goes jungle (no laning allowed), see who wins.  | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
1) You go to the hardcamp first, you get trolls, which are basically the best camp for lycan as long as you dont let skeletons spawn. What happens if this is a different camp? Do you just burn more tango's? What if its something like the 2 bears, do you skip it and go to medium? What happens if the medium is centaurs. Seems like that would delay a bunch. 2) Going to the hardcamp first keeps you away from lane which I like. 3) You never use the courier until vlads. Stops you from being slowed down because an item isn't coming or hogging the courier for yourself. 4) Are you slowed by roamers? Anytime you are running without the early sage's mask if you have to stop farming and lose wolves, you are lacking mana regen to summon a 2nd set. How do you address this, and how does it affect the vlads/rosh timing. 5) You went no ult and no boots, this makes you a sitting duck for ganks. 6)Stylistically I like stout just because I tank with lycan so much. I also like faster rosh timings, because the only games I tend to lose are ones where I wasn't able to complete roshan, which typically happens if I attempt it too late due to farming delays. 7) Seems a little less weak against small warded camp, although that might only be true at first glance. Not sure how the lack of a small camp would stall your timing pre-suicide. 8) I notice you are a little crimped on mana at the end there, if you farmed up a medallion instead of going straight for rosh, would you be mana strapped? edit- 9) Going to the hardcamp gives your pre-game wolves more time to scout, especially the 0:0 runes. | ||
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Mlcrosoft1
Croatia26 Posts
trolls, big satyrs, small satyrs and wolves. You can kill ogre's, centaurs, mud golems, thats okay too but doesn't give lv 2, still much more gold than small camp. i can summon wolves a lot later because im heading to big camp and not small, i don't take much damage from big camp due to stout and i make sure i use wolves(kill them) before expiring I don't find centaurs that disasterous but they will take 2-3 tangoes if you try to kill them lv 1, killing them on lv 2 is much more effective. Avoid ursa's till lv 5 at least. I have yet to confirm in latest dota2 patch i think they made it that you cannot dodge ursa clap again(might be bug) I can get vlads medallion in 8 mins and head to roshan then but as i said i prefer to kill roshan as fast as possible to get it uncontested. Usually it goes like this: hard game, lanes losing: go roshan as fast as possible, game is even: go roshan fast as possible, you're winning: farm medallion and then go roshan. I don't pick up ulti because i don't have mana to support it anyway, any lycan build except soul ring and bottle won't have mana to use ulti and escape gank. Thats something i take care with wards and watching map for missing heroes because there's plenty of time to do that since ur jungling. Take note that 1 solo support cannot kill you in jungle anyway and you should notice whole 2 lane heroes missing... kwark did you even bother to check my dotabuff, i play this hero, would you belive that http://dotabuff.com/players/98818567/heroes?date=patch_6.79c&game_mode=&match_type=real&metric=played http://dotabuff.com/players/98818567/heroes?date=patch_6.79&game_mode=&match_type=real&metric=played bounty hunter problem: do not try to jungle when bounty is messing with you, sharing exp isn't worth it. Abandon your jungle and hug tower for a while or head to enemy jungle, it's risky but it's your only choice. Once you think hes had enough of sitting like an idiot and comes back to lane you can come back | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
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Russano
United States434 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
I think the main issue would be dealing with harassment and keeping your HP topped up to not die instantly. Starting on the medium camp can be really dangerous, and also you can't rely on rosh. Starting on the small camp poses problems as well in that you are taking away the pull opportunity. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
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xSJx
Canada50 Posts
I'm not just shit talking the build, I'm actually curious how you deal with a "bad" start. You need to make a flow chart or something lol  . I like the idea of this build because it would seem to make it easier to deal with a warded small camp, and lets your support pull if they want to.Kwark's build works regardless of what spawns in the easy camp, so as a guide it's a lot easier to follow. | ||
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Lavitage2
198 Posts
The problem I have is that I can't ever turn around a game that's gone bad in the first 10 minutes. If I'm jungling naix and my team's feeding, I can show up to the occasional fight with open wounds and infest tricks to staunch the bleeding, farm armlet asap then try for some heroics with that. If I'm jungling doom and my team's feeding, I can rush a platemail, wait for a push from the enemy team, doom someone key and tank their hits. This often wins a teamfight. If I'm jungling lycan and my team's feeding, any split push attempts by me can be held off by a single overlevelled 2-0-1 support, and I have no teamfight power. All I can do is chase and kill individual heroes who are overextended but I usually don't see big throws from enemy teams who are ahead early. Getting invaded isn't the end of the world. You can run the invaders around the jungle while your team farms, you can end the invasion with a suicide to neuts. There are situational tricks you can do like buying your own sentries for gondar or blocking mirana arrows with low HP wolves. But what the hell do you do if the enemy team ignores you and fucks your teammates in the ass instead? | ||
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KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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