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Lalalaland34490 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/5/54/Centaur_Warrunner_Large.png) Centaur Warrunner
It's said that a centaur's road is paved with the corpses of the fallen. For the one called Warrunner, it has been a long road indeed. To outsiders, the four-legged clans of Druud are often mistaken for simple, brutish creatures. Their language has no written form; their culture lacks pictographic traditions, structured music, formalized religion. For centaurs, combat is the perfect articulation of thought, the highest expression of self. If killing is an art among centaurs, then Bradwarden the Warrunner is their greatest artist. He rose to dominance on the proving grounds of Omexe, an ancient arena where centaur clans have for millennia gathered to perform their gladiatorial rights. As his fame spread, spectators came from far and wide to see the great centaur in action. Always the first to step into the arena, and the last to leave, he composes a masterpiece in each guttering spray, each thrust of blood-slickened blade-length. It is the poetry of blood on steel, flung in complex patterns across the pale sands of the killing floor. Warrunner defeated warrior after warrior, until the arena boomed with the cheering of his name, and he found himself alone, the uncontested champion of his kind. The great belt of Omexe was bestowed, wrapped around his broad torso, but in his victory, the death-artist found only emptiness. For what is a warrior without a challenge? The great centaur galloped out of Omexe that day with a new goal. To his people, Warrunner is the greatest warrior to ever step into the arena. Now he has set out to prove he is the greatest fighter who has ever lived.
For abilities, stats, and other information, visit this hero's Liquipedia page here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Centaur_Warrunner
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Lalalaland34490 Posts
So with the increased popularity of this hero, let's get some discussion going.
He's currently mainly being played as a solo offlane in the pro scene, but I feel he's actually strongest in a dual offlane. With partners such as Lich (shoutout to team Page 1) he can absolutely crush the enemy safelane farmer. Another partner I think he'd be really strong with is CM through pure nuke damage.
Items? Blink is obvious. Mek is good but I feel you need Arcanes to be able to support it. Blademail and Heavens Halberd are other situationally strong choices. I've never seen anyone build Necro 3 on him but I think it could be strong, but you could say that for almost any hero out there. Heart/AC/Sheep are obvious luxuries.
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United States42539 Posts
I've seen him played extremely effectively as a smoke ganker early game with first item boots into tranqs. Using the high hp to run onto lane from behind the enemy heroes and the high burst damage from his W to nuke them when supported by any hero on lane with a good high damage spell.
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United States47024 Posts
The problem with Centaur dual off-lane is that while he's good in 2v2s, he's not really a hero that creates more pressure 2v3 than 1v3. There are some heroes that can do this especially when paired with strong defensive supports (the obvious one being Phoenix, but this is also true of heroes like Windrunner and Clockwerk).
Centaur's primary strength in even lanes is his disable and burst damage, but in a 2v3 these aren't useful advantages given how low range his skills are.
EDIT: Centaur is also quite good mid. While not exceptional as a laner, he's somewhat like a mid Tiny in that the early level advantage presents a large solo kill threat against many heroes on the map--on top of which, Centaur has a global ultimate that also comes into play earlier with the level advantage.
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On April 10 2014 03:53 TheYango wrote:
The problem with Centaur dual off-lane is that while he's good in 2v2s, he's not really a hero that creates more pressure 2v3 than 1v3. There are some heroes that can do this especially when paired with strong defensive supports (the obvious one being Phoenix, but this is also true of heroes like Windrunner and Clockwerk).
Centaur's primary strength in even lanes is his disable and burst damage, but in a 2v3 these aren't useful advantages given how low range his skills are.
EDIT: Centaur is also quite good mid. While not exceptional as a laner, he's somewhat like a mid Tiny in that the early level advantage presents a large solo kill threat against many heroes on the map--on top of which, Centaur has a global ultimate that also comes into play earlier with the level advantage.
Take this with a grain of salt (Please), but I've had a lot of success with this hero 2v3 in pubs with another nuking stunner that's also tanky. Just being able to get in the face of the trilane and take out any hero that overextends is very nice.
In professional play, probably wouldn't work - this hero is really strong in the offlane in that he's really difficult to harass out of because he can trade harassment so successfully due to return.
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On April 10 2014 03:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
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Items? Blink is obvious. Mek is good but I feel you need Arcanes to be able to support it. Blademail and Heavens Halberd are other situationally strong choices. I've never seen anyone build Necro 3 on him but I think it could be strong, but you could say that for almost any hero out there. Heart/AC/Sheep are obvious luxuries.
In terms of items, I've seen a lot of pros favor Hood of Defiance on him, sometimes even before blink. The extra magic resist helps mitigate his double-edge self-damage, and it can be built into a pipe later.
As far as skill-build goes, what do you guys like (offlane)? I've preferred a casual point in return early on, but I've seen a lot of pro-games skip return all together and favor maxing stomp and double-edge quickly.
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On April 10 2014 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2014 03:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
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Items? Blink is obvious. Mek is good but I feel you need Arcanes to be able to support it. Blademail and Heavens Halberd are other situationally strong choices. I've never seen anyone build Necro 3 on him but I think it could be strong, but you could say that for almost any hero out there. Heart/AC/Sheep are obvious luxuries. In terms of items, I've seen a lot of pros favor Hood of Defiance on him, sometimes even before blink. The extra magic resist helps mitigate his double-edge self-damage, and it can be built into a pipe later. As far as skill-build goes, what do you guys like (offlane)? I've preferred a casual point in return early on, but I've seen a lot of pro-games skip return all together and favor maxing stomp and double-edge quickly.
i would only get points in return if you can comfortably 1v2 that lane. otherwise you're missing out on damage for when your supports / mid rotate and gank (or when you gank).
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On April 10 2014 04:20 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2014 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:On April 10 2014 03:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
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Items? Blink is obvious. Mek is good but I feel you need Arcanes to be able to support it. Blademail and Heavens Halberd are other situationally strong choices. I've never seen anyone build Necro 3 on him but I think it could be strong, but you could say that for almost any hero out there. Heart/AC/Sheep are obvious luxuries. In terms of items, I've seen a lot of pros favor Hood of Defiance on him, sometimes even before blink. The extra magic resist helps mitigate his double-edge self-damage, and it can be built into a pipe later. As far as skill-build goes, what do you guys like (offlane)? I've preferred a casual point in return early on, but I've seen a lot of pro-games skip return all together and favor maxing stomp and double-edge quickly. i would only get points in return if you can comfortably 1v2 that lane. otherwise you're missing out on damage for when your supports / mid rotate and gank (or when you gank).
2/2/1 is just fine. If they auto attack you 3 times you about break even missing the extra point in Double Edge. It's too useful not to take a point in lane unless it's a lane that won't be hitting you for some reason.
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United States47024 Posts
Return is also taken at the point where you transition into farming because it's quite efficient for helping you clear jungle camps. In a reasonably good early game, you won't do this because it's a sizable loss of burst damage, but it can be the case where you just need to farm.
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you won't do it in a lane with kill potential but solo offlane id be shocked if taking that point isn't optimal
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On April 10 2014 03:53 TheYango wrote:
The problem with Centaur dual off-lane is that while he's good in 2v2s, he's not really a hero that creates more pressure 2v3 than 1v3. There are some heroes that can do this especially when paired with strong defensive supports (the obvious one being Phoenix, but this is also true of heroes like Windrunner and Clockwerk).
Centaur's primary strength in even lanes is his disable and burst damage, but in a 2v3 these aren't useful advantages given how low range his skills are.
EDIT: Centaur is also quite good mid. While not exceptional as a laner, he's somewhat like a mid Tiny in that the early level advantage presents a large solo kill threat against many heroes on the map--on top of which, Centaur has a global ultimate that also comes into play earlier with the level advantage.
I feel like you're really underestimating exactly how much pressure can be applied 2v3 with him +1. He's already amazingly hard to harass out of lane, but unless you get pretty lucky (or the opponent misplays) you don't have a lot of kill potential in a 1v3. In 2v3 you can force your opponents to have to babysit the carry or else he will 100% die repeatedly because with any kind of slow/stun initiation on the enemy it's practically a guaranteed kill.
The part I think you're going wrong with is that you're considering defensive supports when he really doesn't need much help surviving. The key is to have an aggressive support that relies on centaur being a meat shield to protect them while they harass down the enemy carry.
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Why tranquil boots instead of phase/treads/arcanes? The +armor is nice but you're rarely idle long enough for the passive regen to kick in, right?
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United States47024 Posts
Arcanes are unnecessary because the hero's mana demands aren't that high. Phase and Treads are both situationally ok.
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On April 10 2014 08:05 B1nary wrote:
Why tranquil boots instead of phase/treads/arcanes? The +armor is nice but you're rarely idle long enough for the passive regen to kick in, right?
You absolutely 100% need a way to offset the continous damage you'll be taking from duoble edge. Be it team fights, ganks or just DE's for farm. Tranq is just the easiest and cheapest way to get one most of the time in a lane when your farm wont be amazing. If you for whatever reason find yourself in 1v1 matchups because either teams run aggressive tri's you might consider taking other routes imo, most likely hood->blink. But for just about every typical offlane situation you'll delay blink a bit too much if you try to go greedy and go like hood->blink or so.
Honestly even in cases you can get away with not going tranqs i kinda feel you're better off leaving the boots unupgraded until eventually travels, though that might definitely be up for discussion.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 10 2014 08:29 Kreb wrote:
Honestly even in cases you can get away with not going tranqs i kinda feel you're better off leaving the boots unupgraded until eventually travels, though that might definitely be up for discussion.
After your initial engagement, subsequent Stomps become much easier in fights if you have a movespeed advantage over other heroes. This is the draw of both Tranquils and Phase, and which heavily discourages leaving just Brown Boots, unless you're specifically in the kind of game where fights are decided before the second round of spells.
Also, Urn is probably the best alternative regen source to Tranquils, though it demands heavy fight participation to get a stack of Urn charges going.
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One trick that I haven't see any team abuse yet is to 5 stack a jungle hard camp and then clear it with Smoke+Double Edge spam for a faster blink.
The other trick that is being used situationally is to drop tranquils ->hit by neutrals + double edge to kill them -> pickup tranquils (although it's more of an item specific trick, it's very viable on Centaur because 400 damage double edge just insta clears most jungle camps).
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Why do people go Tranquils on this guy? I am just curious about the answer I would go treads
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On April 10 2014 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Also, Urn is probably the best alternative regen source to Tranquils, though it demands heavy fight participation to get a stack of Urn charges going.
The thing with hood though is that its absolutely amazing buildup to it during the lane. In many 1v1 matchups, especially against other melees, picking up the 3 regen components for hood as first 3 items can give you a massive advantage (or lessen the disadvantage) compared to both tranqs and Urn. Or compared to just about anything. Hitting people for casual 325 damage DE's at lvl 5 and not care about the self damage because you're back to full health in ~25sec is great fun! =)
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United States47024 Posts
On April 10 2014 09:38 SigmaoctanusIV wrote:
Why do people go Tranquils on this guy? I am just curious about the answer I would go treads
Unless you're fed enough to transition into a physical damage lategame, Treads waste a lot of gold on a low-value stat.
Even if Tranquils stay deactivated most of the time, Tranquils provides armor and MS (both valuable stats for Centaur) at competitive amounts for it to be well worth it.
On April 10 2014 09:48 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2014 08:41 TheYango wrote:
Also, Urn is probably the best alternative regen source to Tranquils, though it demands heavy fight participation to get a stack of Urn charges going. The thing with hood though is that its absolutely amazing buildup to it during the lane. In many 1v1 matchups, especially against other melees, picking up the 3 regen components for hood as first 3 items can give you a massive advantage (or lessen the disadvantage) compared to both tranqs and Urn. Or compared to just about anything. Hitting people for casual 325 damage DE's at lvl 5 and not care about the self damage because you're back to full health in ~25sec is great fun! =)
The 3 regen components also give you no fighting power. 1500+ gold in regen feels satisfying in lane, but is a recipe for disaster entering fights compared to 1500 gold in items that give combat stats/utility.
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On April 10 2014 09:58 TheYango wrote:
The 3 regen components also give you no fighting power. 1500+ gold in regen feels satisfying in lane, but is a recipe for disaster entering fights compared to 1500 gold in items that give combat stats/utility.
Personal preference maybe, but I'd definitely argue you're better off with those 1500g into regen because you're only another 550g away from a really good fighting item. And on top of that an item you'll get eventually anyway 90% of the times or more. It's not like you're completely taking a new route to get your items, you're rather taking a shortcut. If anything going Urn feels like an itemization detour since its about the same cost as tranqs.
We are, after all, talking about situations where you can afford to play greedy (which probably happens less than 10% of the games), but if you wanna exploit your unexpected farm potential you dont wanna take detours, you wanna take shortcuts. Thats on top of the laning power all the regen gives you.
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EPT
