EPTOG Discussion - Page 31
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haxhax
125 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17424 Posts
On December 11 2016 10:52 Zea! wrote: Really well deserved, grats to OG, i think that they came out from the shuffle even stronger than before... this team has the potential to be what Team Secret 2.0 failed to be cause of the self-destruction and the toxicity. Btw, i think some people are too harsh with Ana... guys, let this boy grow, he's very young, in a few months of competitive Dota he won a Major, what can you say to him? Ofc, he may not be Miracle, but he's aleady a great player and has a LOT of potential to become even better. Ana is good but that doesn't change the fact that he's no Sumail (they're about the same age, no?). What he really needs is a deeper hero pool, his reflexes and reaction times are amazing though. Still, solid performance from the team. I really liked Notails build adjustments instead of doing the same shit over and over on the heroes. Jerax is scary - him and Zfreek are probably the best position 4 players right now. S4 performed admirably. Fly on point with drafting and supporting. I'm really glad that hontrash fnatic members are doing so well. Been cheering for them ever since they switched over from HoN (except for the time when they were on Secret). | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On December 11 2016 02:02 LemOn wrote: Ummm... Look at Ana, the team would be more or less the same. Notail clearly showed he's more important than Miracle, who can easily be replaced. I wonder how many people understood the genius of his weird alch build vs Eg game2. He faked a battle alch build with treads and a sobi mask and tricked Eg into ignoring him for a freefarm 13 min radiance. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On December 11 2016 12:48 nothingmuch wrote: I wonder how many people understood the genius of his weird alch build vs Eg game2. He faked a battle alch build with treads and a sobi mask and tricked Eg into ignoring him for a freefarm 13 min radiance. i like the potential of it being a feint and i like how he skipped armlet into fighting with the team when he did, but that was the tradeoff of building treads vs armlet and we all know that building an armlet doesn't make the radiance timing very much slower if at all. i believe it was a laning preference that eventually turned into a viable option when he was secured time and area to farm. his team handily won that game-changing engagement (aegis+ursa+tower) regardless of what he had on alchemist at that point. while i liked the game, i don't think he was tricking anyone into playing different because of a sobi mask since he was farming within vision of lane creeps for half the game. they don't see medallion after 2 minutes--they'll wonder for a small moment where that money is going, except in EG's case (very smart players) they know exactly that it is a naked radiance instead. he is not going to go for solar crest + SnY or crest + sblade without building some sort of component first as doing otherwise would only serve to make the completed items slower. although strengthened by how quickly alchemist farms, the surprise factor in building a fighting item all at once is trumped by getting it slower (skipping components that would make it faster or more reliable, as in sange for survivability/damage and medallion for hitting creeps) and by the opposing players' knowledge of what you're doing anyway. alchemist dodging fights earlier (for jungle) to farm what would eventually be a full radiance was because his lane was hard and because he could, not because it would fool EG into a false sense of security while playing slow on most of their heroes. EG's plan that game was to play slow and evade certain movements anyway, because it's in morph's strength to do so and because they're reliant on morphling having the items to win fights for them. i'm sure that factors into how they left arteezy alone as much as they did while focusing on netting universe's nyx a good early game. they know exactly that they'll lose safelane tower to the pressure (not an extremely important tower that game anyway) and eventually (past laning phase) arteezy will be able to pull jungle into lane, and the waves will naturally push closer to dire for when he wants to farm it--manipulating where is safe and unsafe to farm while the rest of his team (notably universe and ursa) make some space for morphling's timings. in that game i believe baiting the ursa into the last pick OD was the genius, and notail would not have done the medallion build in any situation (except the most dire) that game. you can see how EG was banning and preparing for a certain game with dire (lanes included) into an irreparable laning situation. it was a multi-stage setup whether it was the initial plan for OG's draft (alch safelane) or not. I am leaning more towards that exact draft being very intended because of the order of their picks. even the slardar support, dual lane with DS, and dazzle support for +/- armor were awesome ideas for both the macro and for pacing the game they wanted. they didn't get to play to their hero potential because the game was incredibly over. against ad finem, game 4, ana could have built a full bkb when he bought the reaver component and it would have made a difference, but instead, some fights are forced while he's out on the map (team closely behind him) and he ends up dying with a naked reaver. this happened 4 times when some of them were close fights after ana dies to chained disables without so much as a breathe fire used. even BKB+breathe fire before getting wiped out of the fight could have made a large difference in those fights. a lot of objectives were forced out of OG because of those lost fights. in fact, buybacks and then item progression was halted because of those lost fights. the heart was a good end-game, but bkb was sorely needed by that point. we're not even talking about losing roshan, or how much gold that fed from a 10k advantage. the combination of their play and item choices really costed them, especially when ana walked under a ward straight into the pit to start hitting roshan solo. a lot of things happened that game. OG threw a large advantage over a couple fights starting mid tier 3, it was slightly too early to push and they didn't play around the earthshaker well enough. there was one moment where they had the two uncontested kills and could have backed off immediately, they turned back and lost two, giving earthshaker blink money, and we all know what he did with blink-echoslam that game in the later fights. notail did not need to die in one of the closely contested pushes at mid-rax again. it was really close, but he messed up some micro and ended up getting chain stunned into death, instead of getting omnislash off and having a healing ward to finish the push off. even the very last play with earthshaker was unfortunate. Nyx (s4) dropped his gem from inventory while playing with courier right as an invis earthshaker walked past him. the gem was on the floor right as he made that play. if he sees and catches the ES, the game extends another couple minutes at least and there is at least a small hope. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
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Anamorph
236 Posts
Fly for me has proven to be the best captain - a title I would have given to ppd before. He is the only one that was able to achieve 3 Valve titles and he made it with 2 different teams. Normally the most captains are not able to achieve anything with a complete new squad. Let s see if he will be able to get a TI title in the future. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On December 11 2016 20:57 Racket wrote: n0tail is such a lucky guy, I don't know how he does it but he always find someone to carry his ass to victory. I guess he is just an undeserving lucky guy. I believe he was saying that N0tail is the best carry player right now with super smart ideas, only EG's genius probably let them understand the alch fake-out fairly soon, despite still letting him farm freely and was just surprised the best carry player made a micro mistake with Juggernaut in one fight? | ||
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On December 11 2016 21:43 LemOn wrote: I believe he was saying that N0tail is the best carry player right now with super smart ideas, only EG's genius probably let them understand the alch fake-out fairly soon, despite still letting him farm freely and was just surprised the best carry player made a micro mistake with Juggernaut in one fight? It wasn't directed at anyone but the internet itself, it seems to be against n0tail no matter what. Edit: Yea, his ideas are super smart when they work. Otherwise he is testing weird stuff dragging his team down. Anyway enjoy the title guys, this team is really likeable. | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On December 12 2016 00:03 Laertes wrote: Well the evidence is certainly not on your side if you believe this. N0tail singlehandedly won the games OG won against Ad Finem. Not jerax as everyone seems to think. Ad Finem are dangerous, but n0tail crushed them. With Luna Aghs Refresher...tanky sven. He cockblocked their aggressive style heavily in all the games. As much it pains me to say it, OG are about more than cheesy strats. I don't like them but I stand 100% corrected about OG. ? I am one of the few that never questioned n0tail. Edit: And what is cheesy about OG? Picking Alch? I have seen a few teams far more cheesy than picking a hero many pick and that can be banned. Either you have a really weird concept of cheese or you just don't like OG and express it wrongly. | ||
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Corgi
United States408 Posts
At some point having 6 butterflies on your team isn't as good as having an aegis on your carry. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
Poor Miracle , probably believed all the hype around him and thought he would just win wherever he goes. | ||
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On December 12 2016 22:54 Corgi wrote: But will OG win TI7? At some point having 6 butterflies on your team isn't as good as having an aegis on your carry. Winning majors will never be as good as winning TI. But you shouldn't put the international as an obligation, but as a desire. With that said they have much more than many others and are the best team once again | ||
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sang
United States251 Posts
On a somewhat related note, I was very disappointed in the on-air live coverage of the major. Particularly the panel analysis (excluding Purge) was pretty horrendous, especially on the last day. The panel got way too caught up in the hype for all three series and failed to provide even moderate analysis. Here is just a small list of what would have been big talking points that were completely missed on the last day:
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
Can he carry OG to TI7 win? | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
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Pontual
Brazil3038 Posts
On January 04 2017 01:00 WindWolf wrote: When did N0tail start playing carry? My experience with the competitive Dota2 scene as of late is basically limited to the majors and TI Since the very first major and last ti. lol | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On January 04 2017 03:40 LemOn wrote: He used to be a carry in some sort of dead game as well no? He was the scariest mid player for a very long time in the dead game. And on stuff like shadow shaman (the port, obviously) no less. OGs TI7 changes kinda rely on their image I feel. If Ti was tomorrow they'd have a good chance at making it, because even though they are successful, they don't seem as dominant as before TI6 where there was all the hype around them (and miracle). Less hype, no traget on their backs -> better chances. | ||
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