On February 09 2015 13:28 Caladbolg wrote: Play more S4 mid please. He really owns that lane. RTZ is fine in safelane.
I'd rather have s4 go safelane most of the time. He still doing what a traditional midlaner does even if he farms in the safelane anyways.
And he has a lower chance to get fucked and a carry(arteezy) usually can catch up later as long as his team creates space for him even if he has a horrible start. While securing s4 farm is great since secret will have guaranteed someone to be able to do shit midgame outside the supports.
Remember that most teams where s4 played with had this pattern where they rely on him to hold midgame and some games he flat out wins games on his own. While on some games you will also see if he gets shut down the team is just fucked. It doesn't matter whether the carry gets farm.
Securing his good start guarantees that he can do shit midgame. While arteezy can just jungle later or catch up through stacks or some shit.
I think Secret messed their lanes up and didnt play to their strengths. S4 is godly in the mid. Put him in the mid! Arteezy farms like a boss, let him be in safelane and give him farm... I felt like s4 was played like the safelane farmer far too much this tournament... it doesnt suit him because he likes to to start 'doing stuff' very early
I think that if w give this team a few more weeks of practice and time to bond, they will do very well...
I'd rather have s4 go safelane most of the time. He still doing what a traditional midlaner does even if he farms in the safelane anyways.
Problem is they are currently marrying themselves to pos 1 mids this way. That works fine for some games but it drastically reduces their drafting depth.
On February 09 2015 13:37 Hai1Fyre wrote: I think Secret messed their lanes up and didnt play to their strengths. S4 is godly in the mid. Put him in the mid! Arteezy farms like a boss, let him be in safelane and give him farm... I felt like s4 was played like the safelane farmer far too much this tournament... it doesnt suit him because he likes to to start 'doing stuff' very early
I think that if w give this team a few more weeks of practice and time to bond, they will do very well...
But he did play "do stuff" mid heroes. They just d secured his farm which is better than risking him getting wrecked mid.
This is not pre-TI3 era anymore where a mid laner has to play on mid.
I'd rather have s4 go safelane most of the time. He still doing what a traditional midlaner does even if he farms in the safelane anyways.
Problem is they are currently marrying themselves to pos 1 mids this way. That works fine for some games but it drastically reduces their drafting depth.
But the draft on the games gave arteezy heroes that can hold mid. So why not rather than risk putting s4 mid with a spacecreating hero and when there is a chance he gets wrecked in lane. At least arteezy had heroes that can catch up if he gets fucked mid but the team needs s4 to hold midgame for them and he doesn't have a good start we have seen it on some alliance games we know how fucked they get when s4 gets shut down.
It's even more advantageous to s4 than arteezy that they switched safelane and midlane. Obviously if arteezy plays heroes like AM or maybe TB then he goes safelane but he has heroes that can mid. Why risk s4 good start if you can provide it.
On February 09 2015 13:34 ocb05 wrote: Thanks for the reply.
Okay, i believe you have watch the whole game, here's my argument:
Medusa had the BKB, but it was too late. Arteezy shouldn't get manta as first item. Manta in normal situation is good for medusa, but against axe, WD and Skymage, it is not. You said BKB medusa no damage, i beg to differ. That game is about dragging the battle to post-Axe-call by utilising stone gaze, while puck's coil limit their movement while nuking them and letting brood to chip the support down. If executed perfectly, Secret's team lineup is much more effective than EG's lineup, one major catch, EG has better disables. Hence the introduction of BKB.
You make it sound like EG's only option was to 5v5 fight.
Tinker can be everywhere on the map (especially with wolves scouting everywhere), Lycan is a race-car that can split push easily, and Axe+WD+Skywrath can roam and gank anyone on Secret when they're trying to deal with the split push.
EG didn't have to force a fight until they were far enough ahead...and they didn't.
Zai was farming well, got a necrobook and AC! Necro spawns 2 units which complements his already robust minions, which is good for normal situations. However, this spells disaster for Axe. By not building Necrobook and building a BKB as first item, he will be very effective against WD and Skymage. Even Zai got blink called when in BKB mode, WD and Skymage cant do shit against him. What broodmother should do is, bypassing Axe, buying BKB and orchid, specifically for EG supports.
Death Ward goes through BKB. If Zai gets called with WD there, he dies.
No offense, but i think both team skill level wise are good, so Axe cannot possible blink call all of Secret team at once.
He never had to.
You might be right about Kuroky cannot afford a BKB, but his blink dagger is worthless as you can see. Constantly deactivated, and causes KKY to miss the best timing to echoslam.
BKB doesn't help you to hit Echo Slams any better. The only two heroes that would be next to you are Axe, which means your Called and dead in a couple seconds, or Lycan, who is BKBed and murdering your face.
And one thing i noticed, VS and ES is focusing on top, instead of helping Medusa, so bascially Tinker is leading on medusa too much, became too fat and nobody likes a fattened tinker in mid game.
ES spent half his time sitting near mid trying to get a good Fissure, except he was standing right on top of an observer ward.
PPD Knows very well how to build a draft around RTZ and therefore against him.that showed very well yesterday. Secret have to learn to draft differently, and they will be fine. They showed awesome dota through the entire tournament with very few mistakes. They will fix the drafts, and will be even better in the future. Don't forget that there will be one more major patch before TI, so before this comes out we wont be able to tell who will be the team to adapt the fastest to the changes in that patch. The only certain thing is that they will remain one of the best through the year.
I still put this on Artour. He has some time to grow as a player and become a true world-class carry - one you can't so easily draft around - but I question if his commitment is as big as his mouth. Between his announced intention of only playing for another couple of years and his unwillingness to move to Europe while playing for a world-class European team...where's the heart.
On February 09 2015 17:00 FHDH wrote: I still put this on Artour. He has some time to grow as a player and become a true world-class carry - one you can't so easily draft around - but I question if his commitment is as big as his mouth. Between his announced intention of only playing for another couple of years and his unwillingness to move to Europe while playing for a world-class European team...where's the heart.
I really do wonder.
Artour is like 18 and just finished high school. People forget just how young he is since he's been such a figure in the western scene nowadays.
You have to give him some time, he's still a kid and has many many years to mature; he's probably a top 3 carry in the west right now and you have to trust the judgement of all the top players who have vouched for his skill.
I'm aware of how old he is and what the exacerbating factors are on his maturity level. I do wish his BFF was someone with a little wisdom, instead it's like two catty bitches reinforcing each other all the time.
It's still worth pointing out. Arteezy is incredibly talented but he's not going to reach his potential until he successfully wrestles with this. Maybe after losing another TI he'll have the motivation he needs.
On February 10 2015 04:04 FHDH wrote: I'm aware of how old he is and what the exacerbating factors are on his maturity level. I do wish his BFF was someone with a little wisdom, instead it's like two catty bitches reinforcing each other all the time.
It's still worth pointing out. Arteezy is incredibly talented but he's not going to reach his potential until he successfully wrestles with this. Maybe after losing another TI he'll have the motivation he needs.
Or the excuse his depressive personality needs to quit Dota.
They need more strategies. They basically had only 3 strategies at DAC, with more practice and other less important games they can develop more strategies.
On February 15 2015 03:02 MidnightFox wrote: Maybe they change s4 for Black?
why?
Isn't Black a little bit better than s4? And Puppey seems to want the best players to ti5.
I don't really get why so many people have such a hardon for Black^, he's a great player but not better that s4 from what I've seen. And another roster change in such a short amount of time would not help Secret.
EPT
