EPTNa`Vi Discussion - Page 254
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
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goody153
44236 Posts
Lil pretty much put them in the top 8 in the first place and that's just because he came from a team who was winning ALOT. From the current state of the team it looks like they're bound to fight on the CIS qualifier (will probably win i mean look at how inconsistent the rest of CIS teams are) | ||
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Smashdotz
Singapore14 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
I support the second option, because imho this team has no place in T1 Dota and why wouldn't they use the time to invest in a player they don't want to let go? BUT I am still against captains in the core position, so for me this is bound to fail even in the long run as long as Dendi stays mid. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On April 15 2018 10:17 goody153 wrote: I think navi is most likely gonna end up in the qualifiers tbh. The SEA/CN/EG teams have higher chance getting more points than navi Lil pretty much put them in the top 8 in the first place and that's just because he came from a team who was winning ALOT. From the current state of the team it looks like they're bound to fight on the CIS qualifier (will probably win i mean look at how inconsistent the rest of CIS teams are) I don't like their chances. FTM has looked good, Vega has looked good and their will probably be only one spot. | ||
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On April 15 2018 22:03 Conjurusrex2002 wrote: Dendi doesn’t need to move positions. He’s beyond capable mid still. People that claim he’s washed up don’t actually watch their games. Lebron will be let go after epicenter and xboct will jump in at the 4 position to captain. I don't "want" Dendi to swap. I also don't want him to captain from the midlane. | ||
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
On April 16 2018 23:09 Sapaio wrote: Maybe just need new coach. Think ideas they have about draft right now isn't that good. Maybe fire coach instead of replacing players. Maybe hire one outside CIS to bring new input. I have to disagree here. I don’t think their drafts have been bad at all lately, just the execution of them. We’ve been in the position to win almost every game we’ve played but a couple poor decisions have been the downfall. | ||
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its_a_me
Austria612 Posts
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_Elendil
Italy192 Posts
On April 16 2018 16:23 DucK- wrote: Sad cuz lebron looked good when he was standing in for navi... He looked good in online CIS qualifiers. | ||
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On April 17 2018 01:03 Conjurusrex2002 wrote: I have to disagree here. I don’t think their drafts have been bad at all lately, just the execution of them. We’ve been in the position to win almost every game we’ve played but a couple poor decisions have been the downfall. Having watched a lot of NaVi because of Starladder, their problems are pretty straight forward. Most drafts are okay, obviously with a few stinkers, but that's not their issue. Their issues, to me, seem to be two fold. 1) They don't have a Position 5 player. They have Two Position 4s, though Lebron is a decent enough Ward-placer. 2) They have no item or strategy synergy as the game goes on; they build like they're playing in a Pub. With the exception of their push line ups, they're pretty lost after about 35 minutes. They actually have a similar problem as Fnatic, which is why the games go so long. Fnatic sometimes has better item builds (or, eventually, if you look at the Fnatic vs OG game 1), but neither team seems to have much ability to make mid-game adjustments if they reach a stalemate point. If they don't want to shift rosters, there is a few ways of approaching the issue. First is they need to accept they have to draft their supports differently. They need both Lil & Lebron on supports with good synergy & early roaming/ganking potential. If both aren't getting "okay" farm, they're just not that strong a lot of the time. They're not greedy players, they just aren't as good with very low farm "position 6" play if necessary. Second is draft for a lot of push with only 1 core that'll scale late game. Third, make sure they always have a lot of damage in their drafts, as they don't seem very strong at sustain drafts. Fourth, limit General's hero pool, as he seems to have the weakest grasp of most of the current offlane meta heroes. Fifth, someone needs to build at least some ability to frontline for fights. Optic & Fnatic kept drafting DK & Razor for a reason. It can be fairly boring game play, but they can run in & start a fight without dying. All-DPS drafts can work against the right lineup, but that doesn't work against top-level professional teams. | ||
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
On April 17 2018 03:12 Taf the Ghost wrote: Having watched a lot of NaVi because of Starladder, their problems are pretty straight forward. Most drafts are okay, obviously with a few stinkers, but that's not their issue. Their issues, to me, seem to be two fold. 1) They don't have a Position 5 player. They have Two Position 4s, though Lebron is a decent enough Ward-placer. 2) They have no item or strategy synergy as the game goes on; they build like they're playing in a Pub. With the exception of their push line ups, they're pretty lost after about 35 minutes. They actually have a similar problem as Fnatic, which is why the games go so long. Fnatic sometimes has better item builds (or, eventually, if you look at the Fnatic vs OG game 1), but neither team seems to have much ability to make mid-game adjustments if they reach a stalemate point. If they don't want to shift rosters, there is a few ways of approaching the issue. First is they need to accept they have to draft their supports differently. They need both Lil & Lebron on supports with good synergy & early roaming/ganking potential. If both aren't getting "okay" farm, they're just not that strong a lot of the time. They're not greedy players, they just aren't as good with very low farm "position 6" play if necessary. Second is draft for a lot of push with only 1 core that'll scale late game. Third, make sure they always have a lot of damage in their drafts, as they don't seem very strong at sustain drafts. Fourth, limit General's hero pool, as he seems to have the weakest grasp of most of the current offlane meta heroes. Fifth, someone needs to build at least some ability to frontline for fights. Optic & Fnatic kept drafting DK & Razor for a reason. It can be fairly boring game play, but they can run in & start a fight without dying. All-DPS drafts can work against the right lineup, but that doesn't work against top-level professional teams. I think the above summary is very accurate. Lebron is naturally a position 4. The problem is that Lil, also being a position 4, COULD switch to the 5 slot, but he’s so much more technically skilled than lebron that it would hurt us even more if they swapped roles. I also agree that the 30-45 min mark is where we struggle the most. We need crystallize to basically always play a scaling dps hero who can go late, as I’d venture to say he can compete with ANY T1 carry in the world. It’s just the lack of a specific vision in that mid game that has us struggling - hence why we have such a hard time taking roshan. | ||
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Conjurusrex2002
46 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On April 17 2018 09:20 Conjurusrex2002 wrote: I think the above summary is very accurate. Lebron is naturally a position 4. The problem is that Lil, also being a position 4, COULD switch to the 5 slot, but he’s so much more technically skilled than lebron that it would hurt us even more if they swapped roles. I also agree that the 30-45 min mark is where we struggle the most. We need crystallize to basically always play a scaling dps hero who can go late, as I’d venture to say he can compete with ANY T1 carry in the world. It’s just the lack of a specific vision in that mid game that has us struggling - hence why we have such a hard time taking roshan. NaVi really needs to study the way Optic approaches the draft. You're not going to replicate ppd's drafting skill, but the logic still works. Pajkatt nearly always has a hero that can just scale & win the match. There is always a front-liner. There is always someone that can get the jump and not die. There obviously needs to be some draft synergies with good lanes and actual discussion about item builds for "who's going to actually stop the other team's carry?", but the problems are solvable. They really should have beaten Fnatic in both series, but Fnatic always drafts something that'll carry them in the late game. Thus, they got there and won. | ||
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FekY
Serbia55 Posts
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