EPTEternaLEnVy Discussion - Page 89
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common_cider
342 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
But in all seriousness not sure what the players agreed, but Aui being on the team doesn't necessarily mean he is willing to tie his own money into it. It's EE's team pretty much as far as I know, and I believe the team wants to set up a bootcamp for the major quals which are not far away, so potential sponsorships may not yet come into effect. As a frequent streamer he gets donations anyway so idk if he thought he might as well make a targeted goal for this purpose. I doubt he is such a high spender that he doesn't have the money to cover the initial investment from his own pocket, but that said I don't think it really differs from all sorts of goals streamers may have. Not sure if he offered anything specific to the people donating. | ||
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lestye
United States4205 Posts
On October 12 2016 07:10 Moobutt wrote: I'm not sure if I'm dense, but why is Envy soliciting donations for his new team for flights/gear? Between him, Aui, and Bulba, they should have enough cash to invest in a team, right? It leaves a sour taste in my mouth too. Especially when he has an ownership stake in the team. Eventually it's going to lead him to profit off it. Maybe someone can be a devil's advocate on the issue, but I don't like it at first sight. To digress: | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
It feels a bit weird to me too but as I said it's a pretty small thing that would make people look at it differently. For example if the goal when the donations reach a certain mark was some sort of an event that NP puts up I don't think it would come off the same way to people and instead it would just be seen as regular fan interaction. Even if the "real" goal was to use the money for something specific relating to NP. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
he's more likely to get donations and under the honor system he will be expressing that it's going to a helpful cause. he himself said that he got more money in donations in those few days for the chairs and bootcamp than pretty much ever. of course, money always helps. but when you set a cause out there it will make it seem like it's more urgent, especially because we know it's not a joke goal. i don't know if he's done donations after the chairs and monitors and shit but you can't always be asking for money specifically for the team's stuff. this is a pretty special case because envy comes off as an honest guy and puts himself out there for him to be recognized for it in the community. so instead of putting himself out there for receiving donations and getting questions once in a while for what he uses the money on or how much he uses on the team, he can state outright it's all for the team and making the money situation more bearable.. which intrinsically can raise questions also. anyway, i've lost my point but i think it's eventually wrong to want to offset expenses directly through giving fans. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i hate to say something cliche as the game (and pro livelihood) only being as strong as its fanbase. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
it doesn't have to be paid for at all, it's already a form of marketing that indirectly pays for itself, and encourages more of the same. honestly if the team would require personal investment from aui/ee (and so they'd have higher stake in the team) it would light a fire under the rest of the team to do more (creating a successful stream) so it wouldn't have been required in the first place. i feel like players have it quite easy in terms of what they have to do outside the game, though granted that playing dota is a different kind of 'performance art' or a different kind of entertainment in general. actually EG has meetups once in a while which is great. and ofc there's universe with his silly goose videos. https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/53m4l7/the_eg_meetup_appreciation_post/ this seems to have happened when they did the True Sight filming. point is, there's lots of things that can be done, and the most we get outside of good games and player interviews is the summit atmosphere for the sprinkling of dota-related events, granted, it's very difficult and not worthwhile to gather all the players together for something short. i'm talking mostly about more local teams like NP where most of the team is located in one place anyway. | ||
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Archeon
3265 Posts
I mean he got more money for that in the end than he would have otherwise, but if it covers the goal, goal accomplished. If he's got some to spare, well, it's not like he's not getting donations for no reason from his stream anyways and there's a chance that he still is going to invest it into Np after all. | ||
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lestye
United States4205 Posts
On December 01 2016 10:29 Birdie wrote: @people saying he/aui/etc could just use prize money, sure, but if you think of NP as their business then their previous prize money is their personal profit. You wouldn't expect CEOs to put their own wage back into the company when they can just get it from customers/donations/other, NP's no different. Sure, some CEOs do but not usually when they have another option. CEOs don't try to solicit donations from their customers/fans to fund their business expenses. They get the corporation to take out loans or find investors. Also this isn't just the CEO, its the owner. Owners typically invest a lot into their business. (This might be disingenuous to suggest EE hasn't invested his own cash or hasnt invested enough, but I'm going to argue this for the sake of argument) | ||
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xyzz
567 Posts
On December 14 2016 16:54 lestye wrote: CEOs don't try to solicit donations from their customers/fans to fund their business expenses. They get the corporation to take out loans or find investors. Also this isn't just the CEO, its the owner. Owners typically invest a lot into their business. (This might be disingenuous to suggest EE hasn't invested his own cash or hasnt invested enough, but I'm going to argue this for the sake of argument) To be fair that's how the Dota e-sport is funded. Sponsor money and tv revenue doesn't finance the tournament prize pools and therefore the livelihood and existence of professional teams and players. The fans do, by willingly donating money to prize pools either via actual donations or by buying digital cosmetic packs etc. for 50 times their actual value. This whole e-sport is crowd funded. It's not really a business in the traditional sense when you live off donations, and it will only survive as long as the fans are throwing away their money. EE begging for donations isn't very different from Valve doing it. Everyone involved in the sport and even in the streaming business are so accustomed to living off the goodwill of others they've essentially become professional digital beggars. | ||
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lestye
United States4205 Posts
On December 15 2016 06:35 xyzz wrote: To be fair that's how the Dota e-sport is funded. Sponsor money and tv revenue doesn't finance the tournament prize pools and therefore the livelihood and existence of professional teams and players. The fans do, by willingly donating money to prize pools either via actual donations or by buying digital cosmetic packs etc. for 50 times their actual value. This whole e-sport is crowd funded. It's not really a business in the traditional sense when you live off donations, and it will only survive as long as the fans are throwing away their money. EE begging for donations isn't very different from Valve doing it. Everyone involved in the sport and even in the streaming business are so accustomed to living off the goodwill of others they've essentially become professional digital beggars. Valve doesn't set up a paypal and ask people to donate, they sell products, with frankly AMAZING value and say they'll give a % to the pools. Thats different. | ||
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spudde123
4814 Posts
Though of course I agree that a streamer of any kind shouldn't be dishonest and aggressively ask for donations if it's not somehow a really dire situation. But without seeing the streams it doesn't seem to me that EE was doing anything like this. From what I gather he put up a bar on top. Someone sees it as being transparent, someone else sees it as begging for money. People likely give more donations with the bar being up, but as long as he isn't somehow lying about their situation I don't really see it as a huge deal. Noone is obligated to donate. Ideally I would maybe like him/NP to throw some kind of an event after reaching a goal to make it seem like the fans are paying to get something specific. Also as far as fans throwing away money goes, it's a pretty weird way of looking at it. If you enjoy something then paying to support it and allowing it to continue isn't really throwing away money. Fans fund every single professional sport. If there's no fan interest and fans buying tickets to see games, tv packages, fan merchandise and whatnot, there is no industry around that sport. In esports the standard mostly is that you can watch for free after you have a device of some sort and an internet connection (and many even use adblock while doing so). If people enjoy watching a streamer or an esport circuit, paying to support it and make it grow seems reasonable to me even if it isn't behind a paywall. Though of course I understand that not all donations are like this and there are people just trying to get attention on stream or whatever, but still. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
there are players who go out of their way to try and grow their community. in the FGC daigo has donated his winnings (60k) from his 2nd place finish at Capcom Cup to an organization to try and help grow the community and bring in fresh blood. he has a stream set up as of last year to help people understand the game and it is a bilingual because he has someone helping with translating the content. it is very consistent and it accepts donations and subs. he'll bring in friends and fellow pros from the scene to play exhibition and discuss all the new techniques for anyone interested. they'll organize fun events and seasonal stuff while trying to incorporate the viewers in a fun way. in my opinion that is a good attempt at giving back to the greater community, especially for those looking to improve their game or learn more about (and from) their favourite players. some people find it just very frustrating that you have to perform well to have fun in dota--the inherent learning curve making the game very inaccessible. a lot of people have a hard time progressing from button mashing to practicing and becoming more competitive, though they have fun and are interested in the game. I feel that barrier is broken down when players are willing to get involved and trying to mock something up with all the experience they've gathered. ---- if you were to try and contrast this to most dota streams, well.. it's just very different, yet it's understandable that people want to play for themselves and that time spent playing is time spent practicing. if you're not producing content to help others learn, someone else will eventually (an example is dota2bowie) because there's bits of money to be made from that specific passion. I have just yet to see anyone try and take it the next step, without directly trading it for money as a service (coaching). I know aui has made guides before, and they were awesome. I would not be against valve even paying or sponsoring pros/figures to produce videos for newbies or other levels of play. it doesn't have to be a big deal, it is just valve taking the initiative to try and make the game more accessible to new players without changing the way the game is (as in mechanics and whatnot). StarCraft 2 used to balance its units for all levels of play, from bottom (bronze) to GM, instead of focusing on how to explain or help ramp new players up to the competency required to really start having fun and making it their game--when this could have been attempted from outside the game as well. some people just need help or are turned away because it's difficult, even when really they and anyone else are completely capable and are missing out on lots of fun to be had. | ||
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bagels21
United States4357 Posts
When will you disclose the true meaning of “NP”? When I first created this team I wanted something easy to chant. I thought OG was a great name and wanted something similar in the sense that it’s easy to chant and has many meanings. I spent a lot of time looking at acronyms trying to figure out which one would be the best. At one point I came to the acronym No Problem and Over Powered. I chose NP over OP because I believe someone mentioned NP could mean No Puppey and I found that very funny. Just EE things | ||
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