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Solo Threatens
Withdrawal from Epicenter
 Solo is threatening to withdraw from Epicenter unless Valve issues a statement to the offensive statements OG's Ceb made in a pub yesterday concerning Russians.
Solo's statement :
I would like to share my personal opinion on the situation that happened with Ceb yesterday and his apology that followed up a bit later.
Russian whores who would sell their mothers for MMR. That’s not the kind of stuff you say even if you get frustrated. Schizophrenic animals from Russia. Third world dogs.
You simply can’t say these things no matter what caused them. I am proud to be Russian and your words leave me speechless. You’re not some young player who can do careless stuff because he might not understand the consequences. You’ve been in this game since the very start, you’ve earned a lot of respect and it makes the situation even worse.
If the best players in the world do those things, what do we expect from our community? Kuku made his mistake and was banned for a far less insulting stuff, so if we really want to get rid of this racist shit in our game, I think it’s time for Valve to act. I was on vacation when Mind Control pulled his Hitler shit last year and did not react properly, so now we have another example. I’ve done my mistakes in the past and took my punishment, but kept loyal to the game. I think I’ve earned the right to speak on behalf of our community and demand justice. Otherwise it’s all hypocrisy and double standards.
I won’t be participating at the upcoming Epicenter Major that will be played in my home country unless Valve openly speaks about this case and ensures consistency and transparency when it comes to treating racism in our game.
Ceb issued an apology shortly after screenshots of the original comments (they were in teamchat so no archive exists in a replay) blew up in a reddit thread :
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/ofip1x2m12031.png)
Some of his comments (full selection can be found in the threads at the bottom of this post) :
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/73oer5lei1031.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/b6gn07ffi1031.jpg)
The original reddit thread was closed by automod, then the reddit mods decided to leave it closed in favor of a less inflammatory thread that had already been opened.
The threads:
Discussion thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/bsahbl/ogcebs_first_reply_for_people_who_are_too_lazy_to/
First Thread (removed):
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/bs9ero/ogceb/
Some community reactions :
Edit 1 :
Updates.
Ceb has released a new apology and has agreed to do a QnA sitdown with RuHub
One day wiser First and foremost, I would like to apologize to those who have been offended by my stupidity. This obviously includes the Russian community, and more broadly the entire DotA community. This is not about defending myself or justifying what I have written. I take full responsibility for that. I just want to apologize and say how ashamed I am to have given in to my emotions in this way. I would like to acknowledge my mistake here so that this type of act does not happen again. Now that I have been able to distance myself a little bit from what happened, here is my reading of things. DotA is a wonderful game, which teaches you to cooperate with people from all over the world. Different cultures, nationalities, ages, sexes, etc. This is what makes our game so beautiful but also sometimes so difficult. But you must never forget, and that's what I did that time, the passion. Passion before competition. Now, I got caught up in a conflict. I hope that this mistake will allow me, and all of us, to remember that we all share the same passion that drives us and that it is imperative to go beyond this type of events. I am ashamed of my behaviour for two reasons. First of all because in any case, letting anger and emotions take over is never the right way to manage things. I obviously already knew this very well, because this is probably the first lesson you learn from competitive losses, and I have had many. Secondly, I have become, whether I like it or not, a public figure. That makes me a role model in many ways. This gives me a responsibility to anyone who can listen to or admire my work. I am aware of this, I have the opportunity to inspire others and set an example. But the other day, not only did I offend many people, but I also let down those who believed in me. I am deeply sorry. I would now like to turn to the words I used. I had to read them over and over again. Each of these occasions triggers the same shame and pain, really. The truth is that today, the Russian community is probably disappointed and angry at me, and I don't blame them. They react with pride and firmness. I expected nothing less from them. I have always been, not only respectful, but above all admiring the Russian culture. I would like you to know that I have been close to the Russian DotA community throughout my entire career, and I am grateful of all the amazing things I have been able to learn and experience thanks to it. I am one of the few Western players to have played in tier 1 teams with many different CIS players. My first foreign tournaments were held in the CIS region, and to date I have participated in many competitions in Russia. I have always been very enthusiastic about giving back to the Russian community through interviews or any content creation. Because all I've gotten out of it so far is love, and I've always tried to give them that love back. I have changed my nickname to Cyrillic (OG.Себ), I sometimes promote Russian culture on my streams for those who follow them etc. Russia is one of the largest DotA countries, and as the biggest DotA fan, it has always been a pleasure to compete with or against Russian talent. What I'm trying to get is that if I had been accused of harming a community or a nationality, I would have been hurt. But this one in particular leaves me devastated. I'm sorry for "betraying" your trust and respect, in a way. I hope that one day or another, with time and effort, I will be able to redeem myself with you and earn your forgiveness. To do this, the first step for me will be to participate in a question and answer session with the Russian community itself. It will take place live on the 26th at 12 am CET on RuHub. It will be distributed at the following address https://twitch.tv/dota2ruhub
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqt9j9
Update 2 :
Solo has posted an update : Ceb, Valve, and Solo have been having some discussions about what to do going forward.
Over the last 48 hours we’ve had detailed discussions with Seb and Valve about this whole situation. We’re working on a long-term solution together but it’ll obviously take some time. All I can say now is that I’m glad that everyone is on the same page about what we need to do, how we need to do it, and having support from Valve makes me optimistic about our ability to tackle racism. Right now we all need to calm down and focus on the new patch, upcoming tournaments and game we all love. We’ll update you when we finalize the solution for this. vk.com
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Im of the opinion that Valve should come with a statement that they wont be policing all the random shit people say in pubs and that they wont be taken hostage.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On May 25 2019 02:29 cecek wrote:
Im of the opinion that Valve should come with a statement that they wont be policing all the random shit people say in pubs and that they wont be taken hostage.
They should, but then what are they going to do with Kuku case?
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They should stop crying man srsly... i cant even count how often i get insulted because i`m german...
If this guy would have been insulted by any other non pro player nobody would care about it... he just cry`s for attention here
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On May 25 2019 02:31 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 02:29 cecek wrote:
Im of the opinion that Valve should come with a statement that they wont be policing all the random shit people say in pubs and that they wont be taken hostage. They should, but then what are they going to do with Kuku case?
Correct me if Im wrong, but I think Valve officially said that the punishment is for the botched cover up attempt (that he was refering to his friends name or something) the organistion participated in. They can just stick to that.
In reality, Valve was likely pushed by the Chinese to do something, but nobodt can prove that, so Valve can stay relatively consistent.
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this could get interesting.
wp mr 322
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I've updated the OP with formatting and some extra information
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i mean i feel like this sometimes as well.
but saying that as a french person is LUL
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everything else aside, I'm happy that some players are willing to use their leverage against valve. God forbid they be proactive about anything whatsoever.
They can either actually start banning accounts for saying stuff like that, enforce pro players to be a better model for the community, or they can more or less say "we will let the community handle this as they choose." Toxicity in pubs has been a problem in dota for so long due to the nature of the game and there ought to be something from valve as a response to it.
I get people just screaming into their mics in unranked games, and it gets worse the further up the ladder I get. I have perfect behavior score, I mute them, I report them, I move on. And that's... normal? considered normal? I'm not a fan of blizzard's or riot's arbitrary "anti-toxicity" actions. Surely valve can come up with something better.
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Pro tipp for free.
NEVER write a country or a race will insulting someone or you will instantly become a racist xenophobe.
YES what he did, insulting some kid was wrong, NO he is not a racist he just snaped and wrote bullshit.
Calling something racism just to start drama and force something, normalised racism, because people start to give a shit about it.
And Solo is just throws oil into the fire just to look rightous and glorify himself, he would give a shit if someone else was the victim.
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Hard to really make up my mind on this tbh.
If the game was really 2 people raging and ruining the game I can see why he got mad but will agree he obviously went way overboard. But I'm sure we've all seen people in our games who don't get their way so they send cours into the enemy team or whatever else kind of "I want you to lose this game for doing X to me" behavior.
On the other hand I do agree with one of the comments in one of the tweets that Dota has an issue of going after certain people like that. It's always people throwing insults at a certain group of people à la "those russians" (I'm from EU so idk what the equivalent would be on other servers) etc so I can certainly see where Solo is comming from.
It's so common in pub games to see people yell and curse at a certain guy or guys for being a certain nationality that it gets normalized as well.
There ought to be something done about that.
I don't think Ceb should be banned or anything like that as from the screenshots it does not look like he's insulting russians in general but those 2 guys in his game specifically. But it's a shitty situation that might call for a fine imo?
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guy who sold official match for 332$ is threating lan organisators topkek XD
And ceb was kinda right, but ofc u can say that publicly these days...
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OG should just quickly act on this like liquid did with Matu. Quick fine and with Ceb already apologising. He went overboard and made his mistake but hasn't tried to cover it up or anything of the sort and said he was wrong. I think a fine by OG should shut this case.
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I honestly have no opinion on the matter personally.
However based on valve's previous statement, they're now basically just waiting on OG's official response. If OG and Ceb handle this well, I doubt there will be any kind of heavy punishment (ban etc).
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I don't really think you can have a player threatening a lan
whats next ? Ppd will threaten to kill himself if his team doesnt first place ?
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On May 25 2019 02:29 cecek wrote:
Im of the opinion that Valve should come with a statement that they wont be policing all the random shit people say in pubs and that they wont be taken hostage.
Its fucked up the first reply in this thread is "actually valve should just ignore racism and let it fester in their community"
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As a neutral, I don't think this is racist at all. He is not randomly using the term Russian whores. Russian is the nationality of the 2 toxic players, and whore is used as an insult. Basically he is just insulting these 2 players, who so happen to be Russians.
Mc wished for ill to all Russians. Kuku used a deragatory term that insults the Chinese. These are racist cases.
I think this pc culture is so stupid. If ceb is to be punished, it should only be because he as a 'public figure' should not be throwing insults of such nature.
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Honestly Ceb's apology is half assed. He's right his reaction was unacceptable, but there's no acknowledgement that the language he used was also really shitty. Singling out the two other players for being Russian just makes it offensive. You can insult someone plenty without dragging an entire country with millions of people into it.
I don't know what the hell Solo is playing at though, there's no way this stunt ends without him eating crow one way or another.
On May 25 2019 04:58 Dredre wrote:
These kind of insults "dog" "trird world country" "scum" are in almost half my games. It's a disease in the community and it's a very poor reflection on esports in general. That beeing said, the EU west servers have more russians then actual westerners on it now days and i'll be damned if they somehow should become the "victims" in all this. Because in my experience they give just as much if not more then they receive.
This is literally how racism works. "In my personal anecdotal experience this small minority of people who fit into this demographic are shitty, therefore everyone in this demographic is shitty and deserves to be punished."
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He's publicly apologised for his actions, even though he didn't have to. He got angry at guys for ruining a game, wasting multiple peoples valuable time and for being among the many idiots who go out of their way to ruin other peoples enjoyment. 100% the guys ruining the game are getting some sick satisfaction from this debacle.
Solo mate, lets trawl your chat logs shall we? Nobody is perfect.
You shouldn't be calling for heads, you should be asking how this can be prevented from happening in the future.
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On May 25 2019 06:00 dragonswarrior wrote:Honestly Ceb's apology is half assed. He's right his reaction was unacceptable, but there's no acknowledgement that the language he used was also really shitty. Singling out the two other players for being Russian just makes it offensive. You can insult someone plenty without dragging an entire country with millions of people into it. I don't know what the hell Solo is playing at though, there's no way this stunt ends without him eating crow one way or another. Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 04:58 Dredre wrote:
These kind of insults "dog" "trird world country" "scum" are in almost half my games. It's a disease in the community and it's a very poor reflection on esports in general. That beeing said, the EU west servers have more russians then actual westerners on it now days and i'll be damned if they somehow should become the "victims" in all this. Because in my experience they give just as much if not more then they receive.
This is literally how racism works. "In my personal anecdotal experience this small minority of people who fit into this demographic are shitty, therefore everyone in this demographic is shitty and deserves to be punished."
In sea, people insult with like sg dogs, pinoy dogs, Malaysian dogs etc. Doesnt matter which country you are from. They just want to insult you with the term dog. That's why I don't see any thing racist about ceb saying Russian whores.
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That's not a sufficient apology from Ceb at all
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This thread now contains the word "dogs" so many times that I'm getting banner ads for pet food. Good job I guess?
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The apology was warranted, and Valve would be in the right to listen to Solo, issue a little condemnation, say they won't give a formal punishment because he demonstrated contrition, and move along. It seems to be this horribly controversial and unpopular statement in esports that racism is a bad thing, and the least Valve can do (which, admittedly, is typically more than Valve actually does) to respond to it is try not to actively take the side of racism this time.
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Why the fuck are people so sensitive? In SEA someone gets insulted for his race every two games and no one cares. Who cares if it's pro-players or not who's doing it.
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On May 25 2019 08:01 explosivekangaroo wrote:
Why the fuck are people so sensitive? In SEA someone gets insulted for his race every two games and no one cares. Who cares if it's pro-players or not who's doing it.
cause they have a certain platform. thats why
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On May 25 2019 08:04 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 08:01 explosivekangaroo wrote:
Why the fuck are people so sensitive? In SEA someone gets insulted for his race every two games and no one cares. Who cares if it's pro-players or not who's doing it. cause they have a certain platform. thats why
Well you have to produce an argument as to why having a platform means they should be policed more. If OG or their sponsors decide to impose restrictions on what their players get to say, that's fine because the players contractually agree on that.
Unless Valve declares if you participate in a tournament you must adhere to X rules when it comes to speech, pro-players shouldn't be treated differently.
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
On May 25 2019 02:31 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 02:29 cecek wrote:
Im of the opinion that Valve should come with a statement that they wont be policing all the random shit people say in pubs and that they wont be taken hostage. They should, but then what are they going to do with Kuku case?
we will see if Rusia play the Goverment card just like Chinese
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Saying xenophobic stuff that can be interpreted as racist is definitely not okay. Trying to mince words with "Oh, Ceb only meant these 2 Russians are from a third world country" or whatever is trying to dance around the point on a technicality. But this sort of thing still negatively impacts the community, because when you let shit like this go, people will mimic it because they think it's okay. And importantly, not everyone will interpret it as optimistically as this, and will walk away feeling empowered in their racism.
So it doesn't matter if Ceb is racist or if he meant it or that the dude was baiting him (which itself is also really shitty), him saying that stuff was not okay and people shouldn't be making excuses for it.
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I just saw the screenie of what Ceb said and it’s not even that bad lol (relative to what other pros have said). I even found it funny, not at all racist. Solo managed to spin it to make like it was super bad or something.
Solo needs to chill tf out, he had a slap on the wrist for his 322 thing. It could’ve easily not been a meme and his gaming career over.
Edit: I agree with most in this thread that Valve should just vocally state that that wasn’t cool of Ceb, but don’t really punish him, just say something like “we expect more from TI winner caliber players etc etc”. Just usual PR bs.
Win win win win win. Zero-sum loss for all sides. (Except for the ones that want Ceb to pay in blood, no one should care about those people’s opinions)
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What kind of a person are you melting to some words like a popsicle in the sun? I dont give a fuck about what someone tells me online about anything. It doesnt mean anything its just words. We've created a generation of spineless hypersensitive retards. Getting offended like that is incredibly gay, grow the fuck up.
User was temp banned for this post.
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The issue lies Deeper than Valve tbh.
If Valve reacts to this, this can justify players to start screenshotting everything in terms of DEMANDING absolute justice for free speech. We will inevitably become a place where Free-Speech is then censored, which I am ultimately opposed to. This will also cause Valve to sink money into a regulatory department that governs free speech, much like Facebook has a department which oversees content. I am absolutely against the backward path society has been progressing towards, an overly sensitive society which cannot tolerate any form of bad manner.
Now with that being said, I DO NOT condone Racism in any shape or form. Both these scenarios set a precedent for both sides to absolutely abuse the system. we should not condone those who demand ultimatums. we should also not allow this to be the wild wild west. we need a middle ground, not a radical extreme makeover.
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Wonder if Solo will also stay at home unless Valve does something about Ramzes comments on Asians using incredibly racist terms...?
I think Mr 322 should not be so quick about throwing stones considering TI is in China.
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He's on the cover of truesight and TI8 winner. I wonder how far will Valve do about this. Even if the situations where he was baited into it, those responses were really inappropriate.
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Ceb has released a new apology and has agreed to do a QnA sitdown with RuHub
One day wiser First and foremost, I would like to apologize to those who have been offended by my stupidity. This obviously includes the Russian community, and more broadly the entire DotA community. This is not about defending myself or justifying what I have written. I take full responsibility for that. I just want to apologize and say how ashamed I am to have given in to my emotions in this way. I would like to acknowledge my mistake here so that this type of act does not happen again. Now that I have been able to distance myself a little bit from what happened, here is my reading of things. DotA is a wonderful game, which teaches you to cooperate with people from all over the world. Different cultures, nationalities, ages, sexes, etc. This is what makes our game so beautiful but also sometimes so difficult. But you must never forget, and that's what I did that time, the passion. Passion before competition. Now, I got caught up in a conflict. I hope that this mistake will allow me, and all of us, to remember that we all share the same passion that drives us and that it is imperative to go beyond this type of events. I am ashamed of my behaviour for two reasons. First of all because in any case, letting anger and emotions take over is never the right way to manage things. I obviously already knew this very well, because this is probably the first lesson you learn from competitive losses, and I have had many. Secondly, I have become, whether I like it or not, a public figure. That makes me a role model in many ways. This gives me a responsibility to anyone who can listen to or admire my work. I am aware of this, I have the opportunity to inspire others and set an example. But the other day, not only did I offend many people, but I also let down those who believed in me. I am deeply sorry. I would now like to turn to the words I used. I had to read them over and over again. Each of these occasions triggers the same shame and pain, really. The truth is that today, the Russian community is probably disappointed and angry at me, and I don't blame them. They react with pride and firmness. I expected nothing less from them. I have always been, not only respectful, but above all admiring the Russian culture. I would like you to know that I have been close to the Russian DotA community throughout my entire career, and I am grateful of all the amazing things I have been able to learn and experience thanks to it. I am one of the few Western players to have played in tier 1 teams with many different CIS players. My first foreign tournaments were held in the CIS region, and to date I have participated in many competitions in Russia. I have always been very enthusiastic about giving back to the Russian community through interviews or any content creation. Because all I've gotten out of it so far is love, and I've always tried to give them that love back. I have changed my nickname to Cyrillic (OG.Себ), I sometimes promote Russian culture on my streams for those who follow them etc. Russia is one of the largest DotA countries, and as the biggest DotA fan, it has always been a pleasure to compete with or against Russian talent. What I'm trying to get is that if I had been accused of harming a community or a nationality, I would have been hurt. But this one in particular leaves me devastated. I'm sorry for "betraying" your trust and respect, in a way. I hope that one day or another, with time and effort, I will be able to redeem myself with you and earn your forgiveness. To do this, the first step for me will be to participate in a question and answer session with the Russian community itself. It will take place live on the 26th at 12 am CET on RuHub. It will be distributed at the following address https://twitch.tv/dota2ruhub
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqt9j9
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Edit: Ceb's apology already posted above.
Ramzes on twitter
"I think everyone knows that I used to be toxic in pubs for a long time. I’ve improved over the years but am still not perfect. I know there’ll be some development of Solo/Ceb situation tomorrow, so right now I would simply like to apologize and promise it’ll never happen again."
My "interpretation" (clarity is important) of Ramzes tweet :D
"Thanks for getting me into this shitstorm Solo. If you had just realized that being a paid player in an org is substantially different from being a member of the public none of this shit would have happened. I wonder how on earth you thought riling up the public against another economic entity was a good idea. Or even worse, putting our org on the line by throwing ultimatums on our most important partner (Valve) which are known to absolutely hate getting involved in dota 2 drama. I guess you misjudged your importance compared to the national government of the worlds second most powerful country. Anyway, once OG's and VP's PR teams are done with yours and ceb's official statement on how sorry Ceb is and how much you misunderstood him and what a great guy he really is I guess this mess is over. Just waiting a day for Valve to OK any wrist slaps as being sufficient first, if they even want to get involved.
It's also your fault my in game chat is going to be more heavily moderated than Elon musks twitter account from now on.
Fuck..."
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"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" definitely applies here. I never really, fully understood that idiom until now.
Also Ramzes tweet is fucking hilarious. I knew there was a reason why I always liked him.
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To be clear that was just my humorous take on "reading between the lines" and not an actual tweet that I translated. I guess I should have been more clear.
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On May 26 2019 01:15 Nevuk wrote:Ceb has released a new apology and has agreed to do a QnA sitdown with RuHub Show nested quote +One day wiser First and foremost, I would like to apologize to those who have been offended by my stupidity. This obviously includes the Russian community, and more broadly the entire DotA community. This is not about defending myself or justifying what I have written. I take full responsibility for that. I just want to apologize and say how ashamed I am to have given in to my emotions in this way. I would like to acknowledge my mistake here so that this type of act does not happen again. Now that I have been able to distance myself a little bit from what happened, here is my reading of things. DotA is a wonderful game, which teaches you to cooperate with people from all over the world. Different cultures, nationalities, ages, sexes, etc. This is what makes our game so beautiful but also sometimes so difficult. But you must never forget, and that's what I did that time, the passion. Passion before competition. Now, I got caught up in a conflict. I hope that this mistake will allow me, and all of us, to remember that we all share the same passion that drives us and that it is imperative to go beyond this type of events. I am ashamed of my behaviour for two reasons. First of all because in any case, letting anger and emotions take over is never the right way to manage things. I obviously already knew this very well, because this is probably the first lesson you learn from competitive losses, and I have had many. Secondly, I have become, whether I like it or not, a public figure. That makes me a role model in many ways. This gives me a responsibility to anyone who can listen to or admire my work. I am aware of this, I have the opportunity to inspire others and set an example. But the other day, not only did I offend many people, but I also let down those who believed in me. I am deeply sorry. I would now like to turn to the words I used. I had to read them over and over again. Each of these occasions triggers the same shame and pain, really. The truth is that today, the Russian community is probably disappointed and angry at me, and I don't blame them. They react with pride and firmness. I expected nothing less from them. I have always been, not only respectful, but above all admiring the Russian culture. I would like you to know that I have been close to the Russian DotA community throughout my entire career, and I am grateful of all the amazing things I have been able to learn and experience thanks to it. I am one of the few Western players to have played in tier 1 teams with many different CIS players. My first foreign tournaments were held in the CIS region, and to date I have participated in many competitions in Russia. I have always been very enthusiastic about giving back to the Russian community through interviews or any content creation. Because all I've gotten out of it so far is love, and I've always tried to give them that love back. I have changed my nickname to Cyrillic (OG.Себ), I sometimes promote Russian culture on my streams for those who follow them etc. Russia is one of the largest DotA countries, and as the biggest DotA fan, it has always been a pleasure to compete with or against Russian talent. What I'm trying to get is that if I had been accused of harming a community or a nationality, I would have been hurt. But this one in particular leaves me devastated. I'm sorry for "betraying" your trust and respect, in a way. I hope that one day or another, with time and effort, I will be able to redeem myself with you and earn your forgiveness. To do this, the first step for me will be to participate in a question and answer session with the Russian community itself. It will take place live on the 26th at 12 am CET on RuHub. It will be distributed at the following address https://twitch.tv/dota2ruhub https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqt9j9
So now the ball is in Solo’s court. I get the feeling that even if he forgives Ceb, he’s going to follow through with his threat to not attend Epicenter until Valve steps in. I’m not sure if I agree that this is the hill to die on, but the wildly different response to what happened to Kuku vs Mind_Control getting off for free is kinda glaring
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On May 26 2019 01:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
To be clear that was just my humorous take on "reading between the lines" and not an actual tweet that I translated. I guess I should have been more clear.
i know lol. im not that dim, haha. i saw that tweet earlier via circulation of the dota peeps i follow xD
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Solo's "threat" is childish, yet he expects valve to respond in a professional manner. Get your head checked Solo, nobody cares if you don't show up.
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plenty of people will care, namely the russian dota community.
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On May 25 2019 05:53 DucK- wrote:
As a neutral, I don't think this is racist at all. He is not randomly using the term Russian whores. Russian is the nationality of the 2 toxic players, and whore is used as an insult. Basically he is just insulting these 2 players, who so happen to be Russians.
Mc wished for ill to all Russians. Kuku used a deragatory term that insults the Chinese. These are racist cases.
I think this pc culture is so stupid. If ceb is to be punished, it should only be because he as a 'public figure' should not be throwing insults of such nature.
Uhm what Ceb said are racist comments. He literally said pointed out on the statement that they are russians and implicating they are all the same. The fact that he had to single out "russian" makes it racist.
If he never mentioned a nationality or a group or a representation then it would not be a racist statement. Just a distasteful one.
Regardless distasteful comments by proplayers or any figure representing the game should ignored or encouraged even tho trashtalk culture is a thing on gaming. It still shouldn't be ignored.
On May 26 2019 11:43 Nefurious dnb wrote:
Solo's "threat" is childish, yet he expects valve to respond in a professional manner. Get your head checked Solo, nobody cares if you don't show up.
You may say this but people shouldn't be free to just say whatever distasteful and awful things they can say to another person over the internet just because they could.
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Hahaha to all this scums defending him, just shame on you... i remember like today how you all insulted and made Navi to windraw Versuta for calling you burgers and he wasn't eaven big stage pro player just a random streamer....Sad part is casters like Sheever in twiter also blamed him hard but now i see you defense a guy whos not Russian for same actions... I think he doesn't deserve any bans or punishment but just stop acting like his inocent and stop double standarts that pisses peoples off the most... just stop...
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Christ, its just a rage in a pub, i think everybody should calm down. Dont try to destroy the dota scene by overpunishing every tiny comment out of the line somewhere made that is not even an official game.
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On May 26 2019 19:49 Tiela wrote:
Hahaha to all this scums defending him, just shame on you... i remember like today how you all insulted and made Navi to windraw Versuta for calling you burgers and he wasn't eaven big stage pro player just a random streamer....Sad part is casters like Sheever in twiter also blamed him hard but now i see you defense a guy whos not Russian for same actions... I think he doesn't deserve any bans or punishment but just stop acting like his inocent and stop double standarts that pisses peoples off the most... just stop...
Laughing at Solo is not the same thing as defending Ceb. Everyone knows what he did, even himself and he is not trying to hide it.
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On May 25 2019 07:10 DucK- wrote:
In sea, people insult with like sg dogs, pinoy dogs, Malaysian dogs etc. Doesnt matter which country you are from. They just want to insult you with the term dog. That's why I don't see any thing racist about ceb saying Russian whores.
Yea, and in the USA servers people insult others for being from Peru all the time, it doesn't make that kind of behavior okay. In my country it used to be totally fine to deny people their rights because of the color of their skin, and in some places in my country that still is okay. It's totally socially acceptable. That doesn't make it *right*. And I think we should hold public figures to a higher standard than 15 year old punks.
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The irony. He's "proud to be Russian", yet he takes offense from these blatantly baseless insults. It's like me taking offense over being called a "chili dog" because spiciness is often defined by a low pH value and in my country we eat filmjölk which is a form of sour milk, having low pH; it's just absolute nonsense. How can anyone be offended by such, honestly uninspired, insults? They don't hit anywhere close to home but just because someone patches in "nationality x", anything is offensive apparently.
A statement would be nice of course; Valve is in every right to put spoken pressure onto offensive pro players. I don't think things like this should be cracked down upon outside of professional settings though. Yes, it's bad etiquette to not watch your language in everyday life when you are a professional player. What's going to hurt the scene more though? Bad language in pubs or bans and/or fines going into high profile tournaments?
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I'm ok with this reaction from him.
The less crass and offensive people are at some field of interest it is always always better. We didn't come for the trashtalk you can get from dota but the actual game itself (if i wanted to watch people being rude at each other i'd be watching those underground rap battles that are popular online especially locally here)
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Solo has posted an update : Ceb, Valve, and Solo have been having some discussions about what to do going forward.
Over the last 48 hours we’ve had detailed discussions with Seb and Valve about this whole situation. We’re working on a long-term solution together but it’ll obviously take some time. All I can say now is that I’m glad that everyone is on the same page about what we need to do, how we need to do it, and having support from Valve makes me optimistic about our ability to tackle racism. Right now we all need to calm down and focus on the new patch, upcoming tournaments and game we all love. We’ll update you when we finalize the solution for this. vk.com
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Lalalaland34492 Posts
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I hope Solo does withdraw
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On May 27 2019 06:33 Geo.Rion wrote:
I hope Solo does withdraw
Honestly people should not wish things like this.
Without players like Solo the Dota community wouldn’t have memes like 322 and whatnot.
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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At least Solo won't take money for withdrawing this time.
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I'm really surprised how many people (pros in this case) still use mongoloid as an insult. Like WTF.
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Probably due to SingSing. This is also proof why pros need to watch what they say and do as public figures. Even fellow pros can get get influenced, not to mention other immature pub players watching their streams.
The antics of Rtz and his fellow NA pro gamers really ruin pubs for quite a few years. They can be fun and joke between close friends, but these actions become extremely toxic when pub players emulate them in an environment between strangers.
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Poland3748 Posts
On May 25 2019 04:06 its_a_me wrote:
Pro tipp for free.
NEVER write a country or a race will insulting someone or you will instantly become a racist xenophobe.
Or gender or faith or pretty much anything that indicates how you differ from some other people.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
You just have to behave like our beloved Gh. The only "bad" word he said in all chat was "drunk".
He's a true flower and a figure to follow if it comes to behave in pub games.
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Who cares what people write in a stupid pub game? GET A LIFE!
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On June 04 2019 12:57 PlayerofDota wrote:
Who cares what people write in a stupid pub game? GET A LIFE!
Right! And who cares what people write in newspapers or forums? Or what they say on the streets? Just get a life!
+ Show Spoiler +What does "get a life" even mean in that context... What a sad justification of toxic behaviour.
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who cares? people who care about pro players, and then parrot.
where do you think "kill urself" came from? or "u mongoloid"? the list of common shitty/weird phrases goes on.
i bet most people who use it don't even know what mongoloid refers to.
i've used "kill yourself" outside of dota because that's a phrase that just stuck with me.
doesn't mean it's any fucking good, lol.
the point is that it's unnecessary and stupid. it also does more harm than ever good. so why fucking do it? you can blow off steam more intelligently or saying better stuff.
if we don't hold up players who are in the position to be held up, why would we ever hold ourselves to better standards?
the bar just keeps dropping the ruder you are with one another, like a shouting contest between two people who can't put up a good argument.
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You simply can't say those things
No one is the arbiter over another mans speech.
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On June 04 2019 19:56 nanaoei wrote:
who cares? people who care about pro players, and then parrot.
where do you think "kill urself" came from? or "u mongoloid"? the list of common shitty/weird phrases goes on.
i bet most people who use it don't even know what mongoloid refers to.
i've used "kill yourself" outside of dota because that's a phrase that just stuck with me.
doesn't mean it's any fucking good, lol.
the point is that it's unnecessary and stupid. it also does more harm than ever good. so why fucking do it? you can blow off steam more intelligently or saying better stuff.
if we don't hold up players who are in the position to be held up, why would we ever hold ourselves to better standards?
the bar just keeps dropping the ruder you are with one another, like a shouting contest between two people who can't put up a good argument.
Good luck making 7 billion people nice. Shit happens, its a stupid pub game, no one cares, no one's life is affected by angry chat in a stupid pub game. GET A LIFE!
Get a job, get a girlfriend, get friends, etc... stop obsessing over what someone said in a stupid, worthless pub game! I'd look at what someone is talking about me in real life, rather than someone in a single pub game of dota, whether that someone is some playing the game for money or not.
Everyone should stop being little sissies, little snowflakes and getting outraged over stupid, worthless, meaningless chat comments in random pub games!
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On June 05 2019 00:51 SK.Testie wrote:No one is the arbiter over another mans speech.
Fuck me... I didn't realise you were still around 
How are you man?
I remember playing (losing to) you and Mondragon in BWCL or something in Broodwar what must be over 15 years ago now.
Highlight of my BW career lol
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On June 05 2019 00:58 sCuMBaG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2019 00:51 SK.Testie wrote:You simply can't say those things No one is the arbiter over another mans speech. Fuck me... I didn't realise you were still around How are you man? I remember playing (losing to) you and Mondragon in BWCL or something in Broodwar what must be over 15 years ago now. Highlight of my BW career lol
hahaha, doing well thank you. I went ham on streaming on twitch and averaged 1100/2800 viewers for some years until HoN died. I just play for the last of the community that is left there so now it's like 150-350 viewers if i'm lucky since the game is extremely dead.
2v2 on BW was a blast though. Hope you're doing well too. =p
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On June 05 2019 00:56 PlayerofDota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2019 19:56 nanaoei wrote:
who cares? people who care about pro players, and then parrot.
where do you think "kill urself" came from? or "u mongoloid"? the list of common shitty/weird phrases goes on.
i bet most people who use it don't even know what mongoloid refers to.
i've used "kill yourself" outside of dota because that's a phrase that just stuck with me.
doesn't mean it's any fucking good, lol.
the point is that it's unnecessary and stupid. it also does more harm than ever good. so why fucking do it? you can blow off steam more intelligently or saying better stuff.
if we don't hold up players who are in the position to be held up, why would we ever hold ourselves to better standards?
the bar just keeps dropping the ruder you are with one another, like a shouting contest between two people who can't put up a good argument. Good luck making 7 billion people nice. Shit happens, its a stupid pub game, no one cares, no one's life is affected by angry chat in a stupid pub game. GET A LIFE! Get a job, get a girlfriend, get friends, etc... stop obsessing over what someone said in a stupid, worthless pub game! I'd look at what someone is talking about me in real life, rather than someone in a single pub game of dota, whether that someone is some playing the game for money or not. Everyone should stop being little sissies, little snowflakes and getting outraged over stupid, worthless, meaningless chat comments in random pub games!
You’re not wrong but you’re getting ur message out in the worst way possible lol.
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look, i'm saying it's complete nonsense to chat that stuff in the first place, not that it's understandable to be sensitive to it. i don't care how the reaction is because the result is the same. guys are flaming each other or one guy is popping off and wasting everyone's time with their dumb shit. i'm just playing the game to win.
the only behaviour i'm going to try to change is of the people who play with me and my own.
you might not want to care about it and really dislike people who do, but it doesn't make the game or the pool of players you play with/against any better.
the "shit happens" is that people are gonna suck at the game.
baiting the guy (intentionally) or not and using shitty phrases is going to get them to straight up ruin the game and waste everyone's time. and at that point, it's real life.
if you play a game for thousands of hours, i'm sorry but that's an involved hobby, taking up a good chunk of how you spend your life. if you're a pro, that was a good chunk of additional practice time completely down the drain.
why are we going to make reddit threads about the amount of game ruiners going up and it's just about certain regions being irredeemably ass or certain races of people being awful at the game?
that sort of problem grows as you hit the same pool of a few thousand players in high MMR, and if you end up playing at around the same times, the list grows shorter.
people who follow the player, watch their streams, or see the online demeanor and do it themselves and bring it to lower rungs which feature a lot more people.
that's why there's rules and regulations and laws (korea attempts to carry online behaviour over to RL punishment), to prevent people from harming themselves and it getting out of control.
we all know you can't control it because of the nature of it being online, but you don't have to take it to the next level and say parroted slurs at one another. the solution can't be to say it to one another anyway, but stop being snowflakes and being offended in any way shape or form. how bout we don't say it? instead, offer one sentence of constructive criticism, take it or leave it and mute.
if they ruin, you report and move on, and hopefully these people realize that games are not for them if they can get angry to this point.
the whole point is that the meaningless garbage that people throw at each other to flex their alpha-maleness online is common and a complete negative. for actual communication, for the possibility of winning, for the game and larger community in long term, for people who don't know any better, and even for people who just want to play it purely as a damn game.
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On June 05 2019 00:56 PlayerofDota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2019 19:56 nanaoei wrote:
who cares? people who care about pro players, and then parrot.
where do you think "kill urself" came from? or "u mongoloid"? the list of common shitty/weird phrases goes on.
i bet most people who use it don't even know what mongoloid refers to.
i've used "kill yourself" outside of dota because that's a phrase that just stuck with me.
doesn't mean it's any fucking good, lol.
the point is that it's unnecessary and stupid. it also does more harm than ever good. so why fucking do it? you can blow off steam more intelligently or saying better stuff.
if we don't hold up players who are in the position to be held up, why would we ever hold ourselves to better standards?
the bar just keeps dropping the ruder you are with one another, like a shouting contest between two people who can't put up a good argument. Good luck making 7 billion people nice. Shit happens, its a stupid pub game, no one cares, no one's life is affected by angry chat in a stupid pub game. GET A LIFE! Get a job, get a girlfriend, get friends, etc... stop obsessing over what someone said in a stupid, worthless pub game! I'd look at what someone is talking about me in real life, rather than someone in a single pub game of dota, whether that someone is some playing the game for money or not. Everyone should stop being little sissies, little snowflakes and getting outraged over stupid, worthless, meaningless chat comments in random pub games!
Why do you think everyone who cares about behaviour in a game has nothing else to do? I don't want to spend time with toxic people, be it at work, while spending time with friends or in a computer game. And I also think you're wrong that toxic behaviour in computer games can not carry over to situations outside that community. Shit like that gets more acceptable even when we just accept it in a computer game community.
My point is: If you don't care about racism, ableism, whatever in computer game communities that's your thing. I don't think that shit is any more acceptable in computer games then anywhere else in the world. And I do have a life and I'd do the same there. So just stay away from discussions like that if you don't care.
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On June 05 2019 00:51 SK.Testie wrote:No one is the arbiter over another mans speech.
Poor phrasing maybe, but the sentiment of "Let's all be respectful of each other so we can all live in a less stressful/more fulfilling society" doesn't control anyone's free speech and I think is a supremely worthy goal.
And if it makes a bunch of bigots feel bad about their life choices then I consider that a bonus win. No one is taking away *my* free speech just to protect a bunch of racists' feelings.
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On June 05 2019 20:51 dragonswarrior wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2019 00:51 SK.Testie wrote:You simply can't say those things No one is the arbiter over another mans speech. Poor phrasing maybe, but the sentiment of "Let's all be respectful of each other so we can all live in a less stressful/more fulfilling society" doesn't control anyone's free speech and I think is a supremely worthy goal. And if it makes a bunch of bigots feel bad about their life choices then I consider that a bonus win. No one is taking away *my* free speech just to protect a bunch of racists' feelings.
Congratulations on your moral authority. If I am in a game talking to my friends I should be able to say every little thing that comes to mind and no person should ever inhibit the thoughts in my own head. To do so is totalitarian in nature and you can take your "Let's be respectful of each other" shtick and shove it directly up your ass. I don't believe inhibiting other peoples thoughts is respectful. It's condescending in nature. It's the complete lack of respect and disgust you feel for another persons true thoughts that makes you feel validated enough that you can pretend to be a moral authority over what they can and cannot say. Lying to each other is not getting along. Any minute you have to subvert the truth and replace it with a lie you are making the world a little more full of shit and chaotic. And I would argue that's a terrible thing.
Let grown men talk the way they wish to talk, and let them do it freely. The minute someone attempts to tell you, "you can't say that" is the minute you tell them to screw off in the most offensive way possible. Do not attempt to dictate what a man thinks. Vulgarity has its uses and can be extremely effective.
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On June 06 2019 23:28 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2019 20:51 dragonswarrior wrote:On June 05 2019 00:51 SK.Testie wrote:You simply can't say those things No one is the arbiter over another mans speech. Poor phrasing maybe, but the sentiment of "Let's all be respectful of each other so we can all live in a less stressful/more fulfilling society" doesn't control anyone's free speech and I think is a supremely worthy goal. And if it makes a bunch of bigots feel bad about their life choices then I consider that a bonus win. No one is taking away *my* free speech just to protect a bunch of racists' feelings. Congratulations on your moral authority. If I am in a game talking to my friends I should be able to say every little thing that comes to mind and no person should ever inhibit the thoughts in my own head. To do so is totalitarian in nature and you can take your "Let's be respectful of each other" shtick and shove it directly up your ass. I don't believe inhibiting other peoples thoughts is respectful. It's condescending in nature. It's the complete lack of respect and disgust you feel for another persons true thoughts that makes you feel validated enough that you can pretend to be a moral authority over what they can and cannot say. Lying to each other is not getting along. Any minute you have to subvert the truth and replace it with a lie you are making the world a little more full of shit and chaotic. And I would argue that's a terrible thing. Let grown men talk the way they wish to talk, and let them do it freely. The minute someone attempts to tell you, "you can't say that" is the minute you tell them to screw off in the most offensive way possible. Do not attempt to dictate what a man thinks. Vulgarity has its uses and can be extremely effective.
"Let grown men talk the way they wish to talk, and let them do it freely" Buddy, you missed my last point spectacularly. This is why I can never take positions like yours seriously. You've spent your entire response whining about how I shouldn't be able to speak what's on *my* mind because it makes you feel bad for speaking what's on your mind, or something. Do you not see the hypocrisy there? You accuse someone who's saying you should treat others nicely of totalitarian speech while telling them they can't tell others to be more respectful? You are trying to silence MY speech in the name of your twisted ideal of free speech. Of course it isn't actually free speech. If it was you'd come at me with a very different argument. You just want to be an arsehole without having to face any social consequences for your behavior.
My schtick fits very nicely up my ass by the way, thank you for asking. You should try it sometime! It's a lot of fun, and surprisingly fulfilling. Makes everyone's life more pleasant, including your own. *winks*
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The difference is I wouldn't incur any penalties on your speech. I wouldn't attempt to control it or enforce it through economic sanctions or bans or anything like that.
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On June 07 2019 02:07 SK.Testie wrote:
The difference is I wouldn't incur any penalties on your speech. I wouldn't attempt to control it or enforce it through economic sanctions or bans or anything like that.
If you're an asshole in a game, I'm not going to want to play with you. Reporting you is me exercising my right of my free speech. Your being an asshole is you exercising yours, but if the government doesn't do anything then any consequences you receive from me exercising my free speech rights or Valve exercising theirs are just consequences for your choices, not any form of ludicrous totalitarianism or some such. You wishing that being an asshole is consequence free isn't free speech, it's entitlement that will trample on many other people's free speech.
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"You've spent your entire response whining about how I shouldn't be able to speak what's on *my* mind because it makes you feel bad for speaking what's on your mind, or something."
I think there's a difference between disagreeing with someone and ignoring someones thoughts and trying to shape, control or limit speech because in one's mind "it's the right thing". In one scenario you credit the other person his or her right to her actions/behaviour but reject or ignore them, while in the other you actively try to enforce power/control over other people because you value your personal views higher/more important/better than theirs (even though you most like do not know enough about them to truly judge their character).
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EPT
