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On May 25 2019 06:00 dragonswarrior wrote:Honestly Ceb's apology is half assed. He's right his reaction was unacceptable, but there's no acknowledgement that the language he used was also really shitty. Singling out the two other players for being Russian just makes it offensive. You can insult someone plenty without dragging an entire country with millions of people into it. I don't know what the hell Solo is playing at though, there's no way this stunt ends without him eating crow one way or another. Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 04:58 Dredre wrote:
These kind of insults "dog" "trird world country" "scum" are in almost half my games. It's a disease in the community and it's a very poor reflection on esports in general. That beeing said, the EU west servers have more russians then actual westerners on it now days and i'll be damned if they somehow should become the "victims" in all this. Because in my experience they give just as much if not more then they receive.
This is literally how racism works. "In my personal anecdotal experience this small minority of people who fit into this demographic are shitty, therefore everyone in this demographic is shitty and deserves to be punished."
In sea, people insult with like sg dogs, pinoy dogs, Malaysian dogs etc. Doesnt matter which country you are from. They just want to insult you with the term dog. That's why I don't see any thing racist about ceb saying Russian whores.
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That's not a sufficient apology from Ceb at all
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This thread now contains the word "dogs" so many times that I'm getting banner ads for pet food. Good job I guess?
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The apology was warranted, and Valve would be in the right to listen to Solo, issue a little condemnation, say they won't give a formal punishment because he demonstrated contrition, and move along. It seems to be this horribly controversial and unpopular statement in esports that racism is a bad thing, and the least Valve can do (which, admittedly, is typically more than Valve actually does) to respond to it is try not to actively take the side of racism this time.
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Why the fuck are people so sensitive? In SEA someone gets insulted for his race every two games and no one cares. Who cares if it's pro-players or not who's doing it.
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On May 25 2019 08:01 explosivekangaroo wrote:
Why the fuck are people so sensitive? In SEA someone gets insulted for his race every two games and no one cares. Who cares if it's pro-players or not who's doing it.
cause they have a certain platform. thats why
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On May 25 2019 08:04 TRAP[yoo] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 08:01 explosivekangaroo wrote:
Why the fuck are people so sensitive? In SEA someone gets insulted for his race every two games and no one cares. Who cares if it's pro-players or not who's doing it. cause they have a certain platform. thats why
Well you have to produce an argument as to why having a platform means they should be policed more. If OG or their sponsors decide to impose restrictions on what their players get to say, that's fine because the players contractually agree on that.
Unless Valve declares if you participate in a tournament you must adhere to X rules when it comes to speech, pro-players shouldn't be treated differently.
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Vatican City State1573 Posts
On May 25 2019 02:31 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 02:29 cecek wrote:
Im of the opinion that Valve should come with a statement that they wont be policing all the random shit people say in pubs and that they wont be taken hostage. They should, but then what are they going to do with Kuku case?
we will see if Rusia play the Goverment card just like Chinese
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Saying xenophobic stuff that can be interpreted as racist is definitely not okay. Trying to mince words with "Oh, Ceb only meant these 2 Russians are from a third world country" or whatever is trying to dance around the point on a technicality. But this sort of thing still negatively impacts the community, because when you let shit like this go, people will mimic it because they think it's okay. And importantly, not everyone will interpret it as optimistically as this, and will walk away feeling empowered in their racism.
So it doesn't matter if Ceb is racist or if he meant it or that the dude was baiting him (which itself is also really shitty), him saying that stuff was not okay and people shouldn't be making excuses for it.
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I just saw the screenie of what Ceb said and it’s not even that bad lol (relative to what other pros have said). I even found it funny, not at all racist. Solo managed to spin it to make like it was super bad or something.
Solo needs to chill tf out, he had a slap on the wrist for his 322 thing. It could’ve easily not been a meme and his gaming career over.
Edit: I agree with most in this thread that Valve should just vocally state that that wasn’t cool of Ceb, but don’t really punish him, just say something like “we expect more from TI winner caliber players etc etc”. Just usual PR bs.
Win win win win win. Zero-sum loss for all sides. (Except for the ones that want Ceb to pay in blood, no one should care about those people’s opinions)
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What kind of a person are you melting to some words like a popsicle in the sun? I dont give a fuck about what someone tells me online about anything. It doesnt mean anything its just words. We've created a generation of spineless hypersensitive retards. Getting offended like that is incredibly gay, grow the fuck up.
User was temp banned for this post.
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The issue lies Deeper than Valve tbh.
If Valve reacts to this, this can justify players to start screenshotting everything in terms of DEMANDING absolute justice for free speech. We will inevitably become a place where Free-Speech is then censored, which I am ultimately opposed to. This will also cause Valve to sink money into a regulatory department that governs free speech, much like Facebook has a department which oversees content. I am absolutely against the backward path society has been progressing towards, an overly sensitive society which cannot tolerate any form of bad manner.
Now with that being said, I DO NOT condone Racism in any shape or form. Both these scenarios set a precedent for both sides to absolutely abuse the system. we should not condone those who demand ultimatums. we should also not allow this to be the wild wild west. we need a middle ground, not a radical extreme makeover.
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Wonder if Solo will also stay at home unless Valve does something about Ramzes comments on Asians using incredibly racist terms...?
I think Mr 322 should not be so quick about throwing stones considering TI is in China.
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He's on the cover of truesight and TI8 winner. I wonder how far will Valve do about this. Even if the situations where he was baited into it, those responses were really inappropriate.
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Ceb has released a new apology and has agreed to do a QnA sitdown with RuHub
One day wiser First and foremost, I would like to apologize to those who have been offended by my stupidity. This obviously includes the Russian community, and more broadly the entire DotA community. This is not about defending myself or justifying what I have written. I take full responsibility for that. I just want to apologize and say how ashamed I am to have given in to my emotions in this way. I would like to acknowledge my mistake here so that this type of act does not happen again. Now that I have been able to distance myself a little bit from what happened, here is my reading of things. DotA is a wonderful game, which teaches you to cooperate with people from all over the world. Different cultures, nationalities, ages, sexes, etc. This is what makes our game so beautiful but also sometimes so difficult. But you must never forget, and that's what I did that time, the passion. Passion before competition. Now, I got caught up in a conflict. I hope that this mistake will allow me, and all of us, to remember that we all share the same passion that drives us and that it is imperative to go beyond this type of events. I am ashamed of my behaviour for two reasons. First of all because in any case, letting anger and emotions take over is never the right way to manage things. I obviously already knew this very well, because this is probably the first lesson you learn from competitive losses, and I have had many. Secondly, I have become, whether I like it or not, a public figure. That makes me a role model in many ways. This gives me a responsibility to anyone who can listen to or admire my work. I am aware of this, I have the opportunity to inspire others and set an example. But the other day, not only did I offend many people, but I also let down those who believed in me. I am deeply sorry. I would now like to turn to the words I used. I had to read them over and over again. Each of these occasions triggers the same shame and pain, really. The truth is that today, the Russian community is probably disappointed and angry at me, and I don't blame them. They react with pride and firmness. I expected nothing less from them. I have always been, not only respectful, but above all admiring the Russian culture. I would like you to know that I have been close to the Russian DotA community throughout my entire career, and I am grateful of all the amazing things I have been able to learn and experience thanks to it. I am one of the few Western players to have played in tier 1 teams with many different CIS players. My first foreign tournaments were held in the CIS region, and to date I have participated in many competitions in Russia. I have always been very enthusiastic about giving back to the Russian community through interviews or any content creation. Because all I've gotten out of it so far is love, and I've always tried to give them that love back. I have changed my nickname to Cyrillic (OG.Себ), I sometimes promote Russian culture on my streams for those who follow them etc. Russia is one of the largest DotA countries, and as the biggest DotA fan, it has always been a pleasure to compete with or against Russian talent. What I'm trying to get is that if I had been accused of harming a community or a nationality, I would have been hurt. But this one in particular leaves me devastated. I'm sorry for "betraying" your trust and respect, in a way. I hope that one day or another, with time and effort, I will be able to redeem myself with you and earn your forgiveness. To do this, the first step for me will be to participate in a question and answer session with the Russian community itself. It will take place live on the 26th at 12 am CET on RuHub. It will be distributed at the following address https://twitch.tv/dota2ruhub
https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqt9j9
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Edit: Ceb's apology already posted above.
Ramzes on twitter
"I think everyone knows that I used to be toxic in pubs for a long time. I’ve improved over the years but am still not perfect. I know there’ll be some development of Solo/Ceb situation tomorrow, so right now I would simply like to apologize and promise it’ll never happen again."
My "interpretation" (clarity is important) of Ramzes tweet :D
"Thanks for getting me into this shitstorm Solo. If you had just realized that being a paid player in an org is substantially different from being a member of the public none of this shit would have happened. I wonder how on earth you thought riling up the public against another economic entity was a good idea. Or even worse, putting our org on the line by throwing ultimatums on our most important partner (Valve) which are known to absolutely hate getting involved in dota 2 drama. I guess you misjudged your importance compared to the national government of the worlds second most powerful country. Anyway, once OG's and VP's PR teams are done with yours and ceb's official statement on how sorry Ceb is and how much you misunderstood him and what a great guy he really is I guess this mess is over. Just waiting a day for Valve to OK any wrist slaps as being sufficient first, if they even want to get involved.
It's also your fault my in game chat is going to be more heavily moderated than Elon musks twitter account from now on.
Fuck..."
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"Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" definitely applies here. I never really, fully understood that idiom until now.
Also Ramzes tweet is fucking hilarious. I knew there was a reason why I always liked him.
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To be clear that was just my humorous take on "reading between the lines" and not an actual tweet that I translated. I guess I should have been more clear.
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On May 26 2019 01:15 Nevuk wrote:Ceb has released a new apology and has agreed to do a QnA sitdown with RuHub Show nested quote +One day wiser First and foremost, I would like to apologize to those who have been offended by my stupidity. This obviously includes the Russian community, and more broadly the entire DotA community. This is not about defending myself or justifying what I have written. I take full responsibility for that. I just want to apologize and say how ashamed I am to have given in to my emotions in this way. I would like to acknowledge my mistake here so that this type of act does not happen again. Now that I have been able to distance myself a little bit from what happened, here is my reading of things. DotA is a wonderful game, which teaches you to cooperate with people from all over the world. Different cultures, nationalities, ages, sexes, etc. This is what makes our game so beautiful but also sometimes so difficult. But you must never forget, and that's what I did that time, the passion. Passion before competition. Now, I got caught up in a conflict. I hope that this mistake will allow me, and all of us, to remember that we all share the same passion that drives us and that it is imperative to go beyond this type of events. I am ashamed of my behaviour for two reasons. First of all because in any case, letting anger and emotions take over is never the right way to manage things. I obviously already knew this very well, because this is probably the first lesson you learn from competitive losses, and I have had many. Secondly, I have become, whether I like it or not, a public figure. That makes me a role model in many ways. This gives me a responsibility to anyone who can listen to or admire my work. I am aware of this, I have the opportunity to inspire others and set an example. But the other day, not only did I offend many people, but I also let down those who believed in me. I am deeply sorry. I would now like to turn to the words I used. I had to read them over and over again. Each of these occasions triggers the same shame and pain, really. The truth is that today, the Russian community is probably disappointed and angry at me, and I don't blame them. They react with pride and firmness. I expected nothing less from them. I have always been, not only respectful, but above all admiring the Russian culture. I would like you to know that I have been close to the Russian DotA community throughout my entire career, and I am grateful of all the amazing things I have been able to learn and experience thanks to it. I am one of the few Western players to have played in tier 1 teams with many different CIS players. My first foreign tournaments were held in the CIS region, and to date I have participated in many competitions in Russia. I have always been very enthusiastic about giving back to the Russian community through interviews or any content creation. Because all I've gotten out of it so far is love, and I've always tried to give them that love back. I have changed my nickname to Cyrillic (OG.Себ), I sometimes promote Russian culture on my streams for those who follow them etc. Russia is one of the largest DotA countries, and as the biggest DotA fan, it has always been a pleasure to compete with or against Russian talent. What I'm trying to get is that if I had been accused of harming a community or a nationality, I would have been hurt. But this one in particular leaves me devastated. I'm sorry for "betraying" your trust and respect, in a way. I hope that one day or another, with time and effort, I will be able to redeem myself with you and earn your forgiveness. To do this, the first step for me will be to participate in a question and answer session with the Russian community itself. It will take place live on the 26th at 12 am CET on RuHub. It will be distributed at the following address https://twitch.tv/dota2ruhub https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqt9j9
So now the ball is in Solo’s court. I get the feeling that even if he forgives Ceb, he’s going to follow through with his threat to not attend Epicenter until Valve steps in. I’m not sure if I agree that this is the hill to die on, but the wildly different response to what happened to Kuku vs Mind_Control getting off for free is kinda glaring
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EPT
