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HolyPepsi
Canada210 Posts
On December 04 2018 10:15 Jonoman92 wrote: I didn't realize TNC attempted to cover it up I guess. I've been following this somewhat on Reddit and whatnot. Can someone clarify what Valve is referring to? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/phvOpTE.jpg) turns out this guy (probably a friend of tnc) changed his name to Ching Chong later, but there was a record showing for name changes. | ||
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
However, TNC's manager apologized for the coverup on November 13, and Valve apparently made the offer last Tuesday, so Nov 27. If the coverup was such a big factor leading to the ban and docking of points, why even make that offer 2 weeks after they admit to and apologize for doing it? It's not like TNC was doing nothing either, as recently as earlier today they mentioned they were still waiting to hear back from IMBATV to work on a resolution. Am I misreading/misunderstanding something here? | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:03 HolyPepsi wrote: turns out this guy (probably a friend of tnc) changed his name to Ching Chong later, but there was a record showing for name changes. Thanks. Wow, that is pretty bad. Best surefire way to make a mistake even worse is to try and cover it up. | ||
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HolyPepsi
Canada210 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:07 SpeaKEaSY wrote: Actually, looking at it again, Valve's reasoning does not add up. The way I interpreted it, Valve offered them the ability to sub someone in with no penalty, but TNC not finding someone and trying to cover up the infraction caused them to rescind their offer and instead punish them directly. However, TNC's manager apologized for the coverup on November 13, and Valve apparently made the offer last Tuesday, so Nov 27. If the coverup was such a big factor leading to the ban and docking of points, why even make that offer 2 weeks after they admit to and apologize for doing it? It's not like TNC was doing nothing either, as recently as earlier today they mentioned they were still waiting to hear back from IMBATV to work on a resolution. Am I misreading/misunderstanding something here? the government involvement on ban, life threatening spread was unconfirmed rumors... i have yet found a any source in cited Chinese... which means... there was never (or wouldnt have been) a ban on kuku all the shit was made up by tnc (and few twitts).. practically speaking, it is very difficult for an average scaled event in Chongqing (some one in charge of this in the government is fairly low ranked) to negotiate a visa ban (to the foreign ministry) .... think of a mid tier municipal government negotiating with federal government for a visa ban... kuku incidence is... too small for this... and Chinese government will never say things like "we cannot guarantee the safety of certain person".... thats why I have been completely skeptical about the whole rumor, my guess was tnc making shit up and I was probably right.. the western community has been played by tnc's moral/victim card. | ||
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sunrazgriz
Vatican City State1573 Posts
Grand, Cap, Blitz, OD already confirmed that they will not attend | ||
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HolyPepsi
Canada210 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:27 sunrazgriz wrote: will it be a nice major ? Grand, Cap, Blitz, OD already confirmed that they will not attend i have attended ti2 and ti6 in person... it does not seem like we lack of casting talent.. tobi+syndren ld etc... i hope these casters dont attend and learn a lesson... put the ideology stereotype aside and stop pretending to be a hero without using a brain... the Chinese hate is almost automatic when it is something about Chinese government. | ||
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crocshark
139 Posts
Its opportunity for HoN casters to come into the limelight. Valve finally stepped in and say no in very stern manner. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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HolyPepsi
Canada210 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:40 Nevuk wrote: https://twitter.com/kukudota/status/1069770309220233216 thats good for him... put all the shit aside, it is everyones loss (thanks to the twits and tnc i guess) not seeing this talent perform on stage. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
the drama wasn't even him to begin with rofl | ||
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550
418 Posts
On December 04 2018 10:33 gulati wrote: both china and tnc are equally guilty. i have no respect for valve, either. this is a videogame. not politics. apologize, grow a pair, and move the fuck on. Almost spot on But I hav respect for valv It takes an experienced pair to hold back and try to nudge other parties into nice n chill people first | ||
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automatictellers
3 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On December 04 2018 12:41 550 wrote: Almost spot on But I hav respect for valv It takes an experienced pair to hold back and try to nudge other parties into nice n chill people first Its actually looks so bad on them because they are the leaders but they did not take charge early enoygh. That's why the mess escalated. | ||
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SpeaKEaSY
United States1070 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:24 HolyPepsi wrote: the government involvement on ban, life threatening spread was unconfirmed rumors... i have yet found a any source in cited Chinese... which means... there was never (or wouldnt have been) a ban on kuku all the shit was made up by tnc (and few twitts).. practically speaking, it is very difficult for an average scaled event in Chongqing (some one in charge of this in the government is fairly low ranked) to negotiate a visa ban (to the foreign ministry) .... think of a mid tier municipal government negotiating with federal government for a visa ban... kuku incidence is... too small for this... and Chinese government will never say things like "we cannot guarantee the safety of certain person".... thats why I have been completely skeptical about the whole rumor, my guess was tnc making shit up and I was probably right.. the western community has been played by tnc's moral/victim card. do you think RedEye is lying? While I agree that the rumors lack hard evidence (at least to us the general public), I think Valve's response is questionable and inadequate. They deny that the government banned Kuku, but they didn't deny a bunch of the other rumors floating around that have in part been talked about by people who have something to lose by being wrong about this. By not denying these other rumors, it's at best an inadequate response and a missed opportunity, and at worst admission by omission. | ||
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Thermia
United States866 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10655 Posts
On December 04 2018 13:39 SpeaKEaSY wrote: do you think RedEye is lying? https://twitter.com/PaulChaloner/status/1069740272525950976 While I agree that the rumors lack hard evidence (at least to us the general public), I think Valve's response is questionable and inadequate. They deny that the government banned Kuku, but they didn't deny a bunch of the other rumors floating around that have in part been talked about by people who have something to lose by being wrong about this. By not denying these other rumors, it's at best an inadequate response and a missed opportunity, and at worst admission by omission. I had to scroll back up and see if this was Plansix lol. U talk like him | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
First of all, TNC's botched coverup was almost a month ago. If that was such a huge issue to Valve, that should have been the end of things. Kuku or the organization itself should have been banned and that could have been that. However, Valve themselves state that last Tuesday they offered to let TNC play the event with a stand-in and no DPC point reduction. To me this is incredibly telling. It's clear from following this game for years that the last thing Valve likes to do is get involved. It takes nuclear stuff like tournaments issuing DMCA takedowns or teams competing in the wrong region to get them to say anything. They wanted to lay low at all costs to avoid alienating either China or the West. Their offer to TNC was obviously an attempt to entice them into using a stand-in of their own volition, hopefully satisfying fans from both sides. For whatever reason, TNC declined, and I feel that they're being punished by Valve for not accepting the offer. Valve clearly didn't have a problem with TNC's coverup, as they made what could be construed as a generous offer to have TNC compete even after having 3 weeks to "follow the situation" and think about it. What set Valve off was TNC not going along with their plan, forcing Valve's hand into action they knew would have negative consequences with Western customers. I also think Valve is being intentionally misleading about Kuku not having been banned by the Chinese government. If it was just one tweet from Cyborgmatt, then maybe. But between Redeye, EE, KBBQ, and Cyborgmatt, there's a pretty good track record of delivering reliable information. While Kuku may never have been banned officially, statements like "We can't guarantee your safety if you come" are a clear attempt at intimidation. Imbatv BBC's comments clearly show that there is bad blood. While Valve may be correct in saying "Kuku was not banned by the Chinese government," I believe that they're intentionally omitting a pertinent statement. I believe that while he may never have been banned officially, he was always going to be banned. Again, I'm not upset that Kuku was banned. I am upset that Valve has lost control of the competitive Dota 2 scene. I'm upset about the precedent this sets for Chinese LANs, especially with TI9 located in Shanghai. I'm very upset that Valve stepped in at the last moment and said "He's not getting banned by the government, we're banning him!" And I'm mostly mad because Valve apparently thinks I'm stupid enough to buy what they're selling. I love dota 2. I've logged thousands of hours and I've bought every compendium since TI3 (which was the first they released) and most of the battle passes. But I'm seriously questioning whether I'm OK with giving Valve money right now. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
Overall valve statement is pretty bad. | ||
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