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Valve Bans
Kuku from CQ Major
We’ve been following the recent situation regarding TNC and the Chongqing Major and how it has unfolded. First, for clarification, Kuku is not banned by the Chinese government. While there is a lot of anxiety around his attendance and problems it may create, we do not believe his presence creates a real security threat.
Our view on the situation is that responsibility resides with teams to handle these types of issues professionally. When they fail to do so, we will step in. While it is one thing to make a mistake and apologize, it is quite another thing for the team to lie about it or try to create cover for an individual player. TNC has mishandled the situation on multiple occasions, making the situation much worse than it needed to be.
TNC contacted Valve last Tuesday, asking if they would get a DPC point penalty for replacing Kuku; we told them that they wouldn’t. We assumed that they were then working on a plan to replace Kuku with another player. However it seems like TNC is currently not taking proper responsibility for their actions, coupled with the attempted cover up by the team, so we are now stepping in directly and banning Kuku from attending this event. To be clear, TNC is not the victim in this case. It is not okay to cover up the situation, avoid any real sense of responsibility and then deflect it onto the community. We expect them to disagree with this.
Players and teams will make mistakes in the future, and they should accept responsibility for them. We want there to be opportunities to learn from their errors, but taking responsibility doesn’t mean making mistakes don’t come with a cost. Covering up the situation is not an acceptable approach to the problem, and demonstrates poor decision making from TNC that requires accountability. In addition to being required to replace Kuku, we will also be docking 20% of TNC’s current DPC points. The player restriction does not affect future tournaments.
http://blog.dota2.com/2018/12/tnc-and-the-chongqing-major/
Essentially, the issue is the coverup by TNC, not Kuku's specific actions
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This statement is a bit overdue but I reckon it's fair and clear.
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On December 04 2018 08:47 nayumi wrote:
This statement is a bit overdue but I reckon it's fair and clear.
i feel the same way. good decision by valve
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Better late than never I guess. But I still wonder, what guarantees that Kuku wont face any issues competing in another tournament held in China?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On December 04 2018 08:47 nayumi wrote:
This statement is a bit overdue but I reckon it's fair and clear.
Same thoughts here more or less
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Valve kind of did a bunch of groups a "solid" with this, but it at least ends this chapter. Now everyone gets to claim some sort of victory or victimhood and go home. Further establishes Valve's Teddy Roosevelt position of having a big stick.
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I know this is beating a very dead horse, but why was this punished by valve and not the Mind_Control incedent. Their statement indicates that they were very unhappy with the way TNC handled it but if the team is punished why isnt "it" banned but a single player?
So the message send is basically "if you have a good PR department you can get away with it"? Or am i wrong?
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Liquid stepped in and punished Mind_Control almost immediately (I wanna say in 24h, but might have been 48h) and recognised his wrong 100% and punished him according to their own rules. Also I tihnk they made him make some form of public apology?
Kuku or TNC tried to weasel out of the punishment and backlash by covering the thing up at first, and now waiting for the storm to blow over (judging from volvo's post) which apparently pissed off the whole of China because of their moral code or whatever it is aaand the wait pissed off volvo.
The other dude (I forgot his name?) came out and apologised for his remarks so China's angry mob let him off the hook.
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On December 04 2018 09:19 Micro_Jackson wrote:
I know this is beating a very dead horse, but why was this punished by valve and not the Mind_Control incedent. Their statement indicates that they were very unhappy with the way TNC handled it but if the team is punished why isnt "it" banned but a single player?
So the message send is basically "if you have a good PR department you can get away with it"? Or am i wrong?
TNC kept repeatedly shooting itself in the foot. This was Valve preventing gangrene from setting in. Valve "ended" the issue, but, also in the way Valve likes to do this, more or less established the precedent going forward. Further, by Valve handing out the penalty, they gave cover for whatever was happening in China to go away.
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On December 04 2018 09:19 Micro_Jackson wrote:
I know this is beating a very dead horse, but why was this punished by valve and not the Mind_Control incedent. Their statement indicates that they were very unhappy with the way TNC handled it but if the team is punished why isnt "it" banned but a single player?
So the message send is basically "if you have a good PR department you can get away with it"? Or am i wrong?
More like messing with the wrong country. CIS does seem to have a thicker skin then china. i still think its fucking insane, that it came to this, since it was also said in a fucking pub, not at a lan. A lot of things are said there, kuku wasnt and will not be the last pro. but whatever, lets hope this shit is over now, and concentrate on dota again;)
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just as I thought... the escalation of the entire issue was based on TnC's dirty strategy to cover up their mistakes...
So basically:
-TnC make up a story to cover kuku's lie
-a PR move (apology) right after being qualified (I assume if they dont qualify they would not bother to apologize)
-TnC lied about "life threat from government", since the source was never confirmed only coming out from tnc's twitt, clarified by valve
-TnC lied & misinterpret the communication between TnC & Valve
-TnC lied about communication between Chinese organizer of Chongqing event (first saying organizer banned them then saying they are unable to reach the organizer)
instead correcting the mistake like a man, TnC chose to play the moral /victim card, using unconfirmed rumor to stir up the pod raising conflicts between west vs China... this is text book fail....
so i guess the casters will stick with their word we wont see them (i hope tobi is invited)
p.s. i hope sea management learn a hard lesson from this. last time I recall the same incidence (covering up mistakes) was ddz's match fixing. such a talented player.
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On December 04 2018 09:38 HolyPepsi wrote:
just as I thought... the escalation of the entire issue was based on TnC's dirty strategy to cover up their mistakes...
So basically:
-TnC make up a story to cover kuku's lie
-a PR move (apology) right after being qualified (I assume if they dont qualify they would not bother to apologize)
-TnC lied about "life threat from government", since the source was never confirmed only coming out from tnc's twitt, clarified by valve
-TnC lied & misinterpret the communication between TnC & Valve
-TnC lied about communication between Chinese organizer of Chongqing event (first saying organizer banned them then saying they are unable to reach the organizer)
instead correcting the mistake like a man, TnC chose to play the moral /victim card, using unconfirmed rumor to stir up the pod raising conflicts between west vs China... this is text book fail....
so i guess the casters will stick with their word we wont see them (i hope tobi is invited)
Tobi is not invited, he wrote something about it on twitter. doesnt seem to have anything to do with the drama though.
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On December 04 2018 09:37 hunter_x wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2018 09:19 Micro_Jackson wrote:
I know this is beating a very dead horse, but why was this punished by valve and not the Mind_Control incedent. Their statement indicates that they were very unhappy with the way TNC handled it but if the team is punished why isnt "it" banned but a single player?
So the message send is basically "if you have a good PR department you can get away with it"? Or am i wrong? since it was also said in a fucking pub, not at a lan. A lot of things are said there, kuku wasnt and will not be the last pro.
so they should get a free pass? as a public figure you have some responsibility and thats not even talking about the fact that racist remarks have no place in any dota game.
and once again you seem to ignore parts of the story that dont fit your narrative :^)
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Seems to me like valve punted the football and was hoping TNC would fall on their sword and take the pressure of the situation for everyone's sake, and when that didn't happen they decided to throw TNC back under the bus which they had crawled under rather than drawing the ire of China.
Not going to defend TNC too hard when they were without a doubt unprofessional throughout, but so were valve and the tournament organizers. Still bothered by the fact that the thinly veiled threat of "we can't guarantee his safety" hasn't been addressed. And Valve took way too long to publicly address this. Valve and the TO should accept partial responsibility for this poorly handled mess.
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On December 04 2018 08:47 nayumi wrote:
This statement is a bit overdue but I reckon it's fair and clear.
Same. Tnc with all the misinformation to fan the flames didn't help their cause. Finally valve's hand is forced and they have spoken. I still think the Chinese overreacted (social vigilantes...) and a ban will not help mend relations, but at least this means closure to this bullshit.
That said valve is conveniently pushing most of the blame to tnc when they played a big part with their passiveness. Ay everyone fucked up. Chinese being shit for their reaction, kuku for saying stupid stuff, tnc for how they handled and valve for being ambiguous and no clear rules. Disappointed with all
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I didn't realize TNC attempted to cover it up I guess. I've been following this somewhat on Reddit and whatnot. Can someone clarify what Valve is referring to?
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On December 04 2018 10:01 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2018 08:47 nayumi wrote:
This statement is a bit overdue but I reckon it's fair and clear. Same. Tnc with all the misinformation to fan the flames didn't help their cause. Finally valve's hand is forced and they have spoken. I still think the Chinese overreacted (social vigilantes...) and a ban will not help mend relations, but at least this means closure to this bullshit. That said valve is conveniently pushing most of the blame to tnc when they played a big part with their passiveness. Ay everyone fucked up. Chinese being shit for their reaction, kuku for saying stupid stuff, tnc for how they handled and valve for being ambiguous and no clear rules. Disappointed with all
I agree with this completely; I honestly don't think that TNC was pushing disinformation as much as no one was actually interacting with them. I think this is why Valve is only banning him for a single tournament; I have full faith that if Valve didn't feel some sort of side guilt for the way this happened he would have been banned from TI as well.
If you're TNC, bite the bullet and just take this punishment and be done with it. Also fire your manager.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
On December 04 2018 10:15 Jonoman92 wrote:
I didn't realize TNC attempted to cover it up I guess. I've been following this somewhat on Reddit and whatnot. Can someone clarify what Valve is referring to?
TnC deflected at first, saying Kuku was just reacting to a handle of someone playing in the pub. People then went looking for the match in question and saw that the steam profile name was just recently changed in order to go along with the cover up story of TnC: "He was not racist at all, just some dumbass in his pub was".
Naturally this just enraged the internet mob even more and we ended up with both sides (western and chinese communities) escalating things even further.
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both china and tnc are equally guilty. i have no respect for valve, either.
this is a videogame. not politics. apologize, grow a pair, and move the fuck on.
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I have mixed feelings about Valve's response.
It's really late, and I think Valve needed to take responsibility earlier. This reminds me of certain drama associated with admins not being able to enforce rules in pro matches and hoping to let them resolve or take the easy way out.
People keep saying that Valve's response to TNC when they said TNC could play without a play-in penalty was a surefire hint for TNC not to proceed to Chongqing with Kuku. I think even though it was pretty clear, but it was not definitive. And then TNC proceeded to self-implode. Valve's laissez-faire attitude to their pro scene caused a whole lot of unnecessary drama, though I can't say it was ultimately pointless since hopefully dragging this out will more likely prevent future situations similar to this one from happening.
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EPT
