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On October 14 2017 08:40 ahswtini wrote:
a bit vague tbh. is a french language stream directly competing with the organiser's stream? hard to say
If it is a studio, yeah. A random french dude streaming it, no.
They basically said, Bulldog, you can stream whathever you want. French dudes, you are out of luck. Of course they intentionally leave it vague because that is a lot easier for them. It's hard to draw a line between a studio and a personal stream. You can't say people can't profit from it because everyone profits from it.
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http://blog.dota2.com/2017/10/broadcasting-dota-2/
I suppose this is what we're gonna get in terms of an official response from valve: anyone can broadcast tournaments so long as they don't use any content from the official tournament production and don't broadcast "in a commercial manner or in a way that directly competes with the tournament organizer’s stream" (the latter being quite a broad statement).
How far Valve is willing to go to enforce this stance is up for debate (I personally have no clue).
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On October 14 2017 08:27 Plansix wrote:
Pretty sure this relevant. It appears you't can run ads on a rebroadcast. I bet advertisers are being more strict, especially after the YouTube implosion.
Feel like this clarified a few things, but by and large it has always been the official Valve stance. Back in the day when Tobi was the only game in town for casting it was hard for new people to break in. So rather than having an old boys club monopoly on casting Valve wanted the little guy to be able to cast shit. They could cast any game in dotatv provided they didn't use someone else's obs or announcing. This came back up with NoobFromUA who was blatantly stealing other people's IP to profit himself.
The newer clarified details are things like no ads (can streamers control pre-roll ads? They never used to be able to which was bullshit on Twitch's part) which seems fine, barring pre-rolls, and not having sponsorship bars on screen. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not sure if having donations and subs show up on screen counts as "advertising/sponsorship". Basically they just added a few caveats to the system that has always been in place. Hopefully this DMCA bullshit can stop now.
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On October 14 2017 09:38 OuchyDathurts wrote:Feel like this clarified a few things, but by and large it has always been the official Valve stance. Back in the day when Tobi was the only game in town for casting it was hard for new people to break in. So rather than having an old boys club monopoly on casting Valve wanted the little guy to be able to cast shit. They could cast any game in dotatv provided they didn't use someone else's obs or announcing. This came back up with NoobFromUA who was blatantly stealing other people's IP to profit himself. The newer clarified details are things like no ads (can streamers control pre-roll ads? They never used to be able to which was bullshit on Twitch's part) which seems fine, barring pre-rolls, and not having sponsorship bars on screen. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not sure if having donations and subs show up on screen counts as "advertising/sponsorship". Basically they just added a few caveats to the system that has always been in place. Hopefully this DMCA bullshit can stop now.
Main thing seems to be the Tournaments just never enforced it, or at least not much. With more money coming into the scene, those viewer numbers matter and Tournaments have a reason to enforce it. This isn't actually a legal grey area, it's just that the scene hasn't really had a reason to enforce it.
Because, let's be honest, if you were streaming a pub then switched over to streaming a Cable channel, Twitch is going to take you down as well. The recent Mayweather vs McGregor fight, at least on social media, was hilarious. They were swatting down illegal streams over every platform available, as that was an actual PPV event. (I actually saw more discussion of that than the fight itself.)
Non-English "studios" are going to need to get official permission going forward. Or stream in China.
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What Grant may wind up doing is casting from replays like he did for SG vs VG. He joked? (I think it was a joke) about casting from the minimap if he didn't get permission. He never saves VODs so it shouldn't be a competition for a youtube channel either.
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On October 14 2017 10:32 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2017 09:38 OuchyDathurts wrote:Feel like this clarified a few things, but by and large it has always been the official Valve stance. Back in the day when Tobi was the only game in town for casting it was hard for new people to break in. So rather than having an old boys club monopoly on casting Valve wanted the little guy to be able to cast shit. They could cast any game in dotatv provided they didn't use someone else's obs or announcing. This came back up with NoobFromUA who was blatantly stealing other people's IP to profit himself. The newer clarified details are things like no ads (can streamers control pre-roll ads? They never used to be able to which was bullshit on Twitch's part) which seems fine, barring pre-rolls, and not having sponsorship bars on screen. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not sure if having donations and subs show up on screen counts as "advertising/sponsorship". Basically they just added a few caveats to the system that has always been in place. Hopefully this DMCA bullshit can stop now. Main thing seems to be the Tournaments just never enforced it, or at least not much. With more money coming into the scene, those viewer numbers matter and Tournaments have a reason to enforce it. This isn't actually a legal grey area, it's just that the scene hasn't really had a reason to enforce it. Because, let's be honest, if you were streaming a pub then switched over to streaming a Cable channel, Twitch is going to take you down as well. The recent Mayweather vs McGregor fight, at least on social media, was hilarious. They were swatting down illegal streams over every platform available, as that was an actual PPV event. (I actually saw more discussion of that than the fight itself.) Non-English "studios" are going to need to get official permission going forward. Or stream in China.
After the YouTube implosion, advertisers pay a lot more attention too. I think everyone just wants there to be one source running ads so there is no conflicts.
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On October 14 2017 10:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2017 10:32 Taf the Ghost wrote:On October 14 2017 09:38 OuchyDathurts wrote:Feel like this clarified a few things, but by and large it has always been the official Valve stance. Back in the day when Tobi was the only game in town for casting it was hard for new people to break in. So rather than having an old boys club monopoly on casting Valve wanted the little guy to be able to cast shit. They could cast any game in dotatv provided they didn't use someone else's obs or announcing. This came back up with NoobFromUA who was blatantly stealing other people's IP to profit himself. The newer clarified details are things like no ads (can streamers control pre-roll ads? They never used to be able to which was bullshit on Twitch's part) which seems fine, barring pre-rolls, and not having sponsorship bars on screen. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not sure if having donations and subs show up on screen counts as "advertising/sponsorship". Basically they just added a few caveats to the system that has always been in place. Hopefully this DMCA bullshit can stop now. Main thing seems to be the Tournaments just never enforced it, or at least not much. With more money coming into the scene, those viewer numbers matter and Tournaments have a reason to enforce it. This isn't actually a legal grey area, it's just that the scene hasn't really had a reason to enforce it. Because, let's be honest, if you were streaming a pub then switched over to streaming a Cable channel, Twitch is going to take you down as well. The recent Mayweather vs McGregor fight, at least on social media, was hilarious. They were swatting down illegal streams over every platform available, as that was an actual PPV event. (I actually saw more discussion of that than the fight itself.) Non-English "studios" are going to need to get official permission going forward. Or stream in China. After the YouTube implosion, advertisers pay a lot more attention too. I think everyone just wants there to be one source running ads so there is no conflicts.
YouTube was knifed. It didn't implode. The proxy cause was the 2016 Elections (not just the USA), but it was something that had been building for a while as YouTube's model has never worked. Advertisers are always paying attention, so this really isn't about that. At least in this instance.
This is more about the fact that eSports is getting progressively more investment, so it is more valuable to the Tournaments to enforce the rules. Dota2 normally doesn't have it, but some games end up with the streamers being bigger than the official channels at times. That is a problem because the numbers the Tournament reports is from there official stream(s). The scene has just gotten used to doing things a certain way because it takes effort to enforce those types of rules. (They also might have been slightly different in the past.) When the scene got large enough that enforcing stricter rules was valuable, it started happening.
I'm still floored by how many LANs we're getting this season. 27(?) Major/Minors. That is insane. Almost as nutty as the year SC2 had 35, I think it was. There will be Dota2 content (new, mind you) to watch pretty much every day until the week before TI7.
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First of all, using the DMCA as a basis for the claim is stupid. It's an abuse of the law as-written and wouldn't pass the test, but DMCA is also the only avenue through which YouTube, Twitch etc offer users a quick and easy takedown avenue.
However, Twitch will always follow whatever a game publisher sets out as a streaming policy. When Atlus released their crazy Persona guidelines which were obviously written with YouTuber monetizations in mind, Twitch voluntarily chose to comply with them). This is because, as was noted, streaming is a legally untested area and Twitch doesn't want to be the party that draws the ESA to action.
So even though it's an absolute dogturd abuse of DMCA, following a lot of other dogturd abuses of DMCA. I'd rather game developers sue racist YouTubers directly rather than apply pressure to the video host by abusing DMCA. But in this case, whatever Valve says sounds good to them is what Twitch is gonna do.
On October 14 2017 11:43 Taf the Ghost wrote:
YouTube was knifed. It didn't implode. The proxy cause was the 2016 Elections (not just the USA), but it was something that had been building for a while as YouTube's model has never worked.
Elections had nothing to do with it, there's a guy who invented a bot that can detect sketchy YouTube videos of questionable violence and ethics violations that would make advertisers queasy, and he's been campaigning advertisers with results from his bot, effectively asking, "Did you know YOUR ad appeared on this video of war footage?"
This is because he wants Google to buy his bot for many millions, and he's trying to leverage advertisers into pressuring them. He finally struck gold when advertising was enabled on a propaganda video for A Certain Well-Known Extremist Sect. Google's trying to develop their own bot internally, but along the way, tons and tons of game videos have been deemed unsuitable for advertisers because so many titles feature virtual humanoids attacking each other with weapons.
YouTube does have a problem. And it's trying to deal with it. But it's a process and at this early stage the bot is going all Jack Thompson on everyone. MUST STOP (BZZT) THE MURDER SIMULATORS
I'm fairly certain that competitive Tetris won't get flagged while Overwatch definitely will, and it's because them thar big ol firearms don't sit well with those namby-pamby advertisers who don't believe in a man's constitutional right to sneak up behind the other team and press Q.
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EPT
