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Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion - Page 10553

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 02 2022 04:49 GMT
#211041
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-03 19:51:16
October 03 2022 19:44 GMT
#211042
There's some some not-great-looking news from ZA/UM, the developers of Disco Elysium. Word broke a few days ago that three of the founding developers, including the lead writer and setting designer have been pushed out "by management." Today someone shared a job posting on Reddit that indicated ZA/UM is hiring a "lifecycle monetization specialist," implying that the sequel to disco Elysium will have microtransactions (somehow??)

If it were any other game I don't think I would care at all but there's something deeply ironic about putting skins in a game like disco Elysium.

Iv been thinking about a character in the original game that talks about how even art which is designed to be critical of capitalism can not avoid being subsumed by it.

kim kitsuragi Fortnite skin inc
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 03 2022 20:31 GMT
#211043
On October 04 2022 04:44 PassiveAce wrote:
If it were any other game I don't think I would care at all but there's something deeply ironic about putting skins in a game like disco Elysium.

Oh yes that is sweet irony, although I imagine real experience guided a lot of the philosophy of the game and the developers have much experience dealing with asshole investors. But yeah what a mess. I know that Valve had a lot of troubles with publishers in the pre-steam era with law suits to get control of their early IPs from publishers. To indie studios today, like Wube (Factorio), who basically just got lucky with kickstarter'ing their game so they were able to keep control since the start but I'm sure they were staring down the barrel of several months of instant ramen noodles. Getting the capital to make a game and keeping publishers at bay is surely no easy task even with all the tools and platforms available these days.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
October 04 2022 10:45 GMT
#211044
Being ramen soluble is already a big win . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-04 12:12:08
October 04 2022 11:46 GMT
#211045
--- Nuked ---
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 04 2022 15:29 GMT
#211046
On October 04 2022 19:45 Erasme wrote:
Being ramen soluble is already a big win . .

Yeah indie game dev seems very risky but at least they payout is big if you're truly independent since you keep 70% of profits with steam. Like the stardew valley creator must be set for life now. It's quite sad that the leads on a huge hit like disco elysium probably didn't get the payout they deserved :/
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
October 04 2022 19:50 GMT
#211047
The article is paywalled but the wall street journal says that chess.com is about to release a report that Hans has cheated in over 100 online games.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chess-cheating-hans-niemann-report-magnus-carlsen-11664911524
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 04 2022 20:07 GMT
#211048
On October 05 2022 04:50 PassiveAce wrote:
The article is paywalled but the wall street journal says that chess.com is about to release a report that Hans has cheated in over 100 online games.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chess-cheating-hans-niemann-report-magnus-carlsen-11664911524

For me, it mostly depends when. If he was a stupid 15 year old cheating online that’s a lot different than it being in the last year or two.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
October 04 2022 20:26 GMT
#211049
They say the most recent occurrence was in 2020. He may have been banned since then tho.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Slomo
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany7198 Posts
October 05 2022 07:34 GMT
#211050
But does is matter for the offline tournaments?
RIP DOUBLE TI OG | #18 never forget
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 05 2022 15:59 GMT
#211051
On October 05 2022 16:34 Slomo wrote:
But does is matter for the offline tournaments?

I think chess.com said that there were suspicions that he may have cheated in some offline events, but that it wasn't their position to investigate these. Also I think there is some FIDE investigation currently underway.
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2836 Posts
October 05 2022 17:15 GMT
#211052
What happens if they do discover he was cheating? Do they go so far as to scour the rating changes from his matches?
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-05 17:24:26
October 05 2022 17:16 GMT
#211053
One thing that kind of surprised me in the report was that chess.com had data indicating that Hans' played much better moves after "toggling" to another browser window. The presumption is that he had an engine open on the other screen, which makes sense. What confused me was how chess.com was able to gather that data? Are websites privy to data that tells them when a user has a separate browser or screen activated? I would have thought you would need separate software installed to track that kind of user data? Maybe someone with more technical expertise can explain?
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 05 2022 17:24 GMT
#211054
On October 06 2022 02:16 PassiveAce wrote:
One thing that kind of surprised me in the report was that chess.com had data indicating that Hans' played much better moves after "toggling" to another browser window. The presumption is that he had an engine open on the other screen, which makes sense. What confused me was how chess.com was able to gather that data? Are websites privy to data that tells them when a user has a browser activated? I would have thought you would need separate software installed to track that kind of user data? Maybe someone with more technical expertise can explain?

I understood that it was something simpler: he was streaming during these events and you could just see him look at another screen
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
October 05 2022 17:25 GMT
#211055
On October 06 2022 02:15 Fleetfeet wrote:
What happens if they do discover he was cheating? Do they go so far as to scour the rating changes from his matches?

No idea!
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-05 17:41:36
October 05 2022 17:40 GMT
#211056
On October 06 2022 02:15 Fleetfeet wrote:
What happens if they do discover he was cheating? Do they go so far as to scour the rating changes from his matches?

I would bet that if they found hard evidence of cheating in live chess then they would do something similar to a "no-contest" in combat sports where they nullify the results of the match. I'm sure FIDE already has a rule for this eventuality but I have no idea what it is.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
October 05 2022 18:41 GMT
#211057
On October 06 2022 02:16 PassiveAce wrote:
One thing that kind of surprised me in the report was that chess.com had data indicating that Hans' played much better moves after "toggling" to another browser window. The presumption is that he had an engine open on the other screen, which makes sense. What confused me was how chess.com was able to gather that data? Are websites privy to data that tells them when a user has a separate browser or screen activated? I would have thought you would need separate software installed to track that kind of user data? Maybe someone with more technical expertise can explain?

afaik it's pretty easy to know whether a given tab in the browser is in the foreground or not. This is partially necessary because browsers treat tabs differently if they're not the active tab (roughly - they give the tabs fewer resources, which is part of how you can stay performant while having many tabs open) and so a website may want to behave very differently *because* they have fewer resources. But also sites need to be able to determine this so that, for example, a game can pause automatically if you tab to a different screen or whatever.
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
October 05 2022 18:55 GMT
#211058
On October 06 2022 03:41 eieio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2022 02:16 PassiveAce wrote:
One thing that kind of surprised me in the report was that chess.com had data indicating that Hans' played much better moves after "toggling" to another browser window. The presumption is that he had an engine open on the other screen, which makes sense. What confused me was how chess.com was able to gather that data? Are websites privy to data that tells them when a user has a separate browser or screen activated? I would have thought you would need separate software installed to track that kind of user data? Maybe someone with more technical expertise can explain?

afaik it's pretty easy to know whether a given tab in the browser is in the foreground or not. This is partially necessary because browsers treat tabs differently if they're not the active tab (roughly - they give the tabs fewer resources, which is part of how you can stay performant while having many tabs open) and so a website may want to behave very differently *because* they have fewer resources. But also sites need to be able to determine this so that, for example, a game can pause automatically if you tab to a different screen or whatever.

Ahhh yeah that makes sense. Thank you!
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2836 Posts
October 05 2022 20:28 GMT
#211059
On October 06 2022 02:40 PassiveAce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2022 02:15 Fleetfeet wrote:
What happens if they do discover he was cheating? Do they go so far as to scour the rating changes from his matches?

I would bet that if they found hard evidence of cheating in live chess then they would do something similar to a "no-contest" in combat sports where they nullify the results of the match. I'm sure FIDE already has a rule for this eventuality but I have no idea what it is.


This is kinda what I figure, I'm mostly curious how many permutations they carry it down b/c everyone's elo is connected to everyone they played. I don't imagine the ripples would be massive, I'm just curious how far it would go.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-05 22:14:14
October 05 2022 22:13 GMT
#211060
On October 06 2022 05:28 Fleetfeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2022 02:40 PassiveAce wrote:
On October 06 2022 02:15 Fleetfeet wrote:
What happens if they do discover he was cheating? Do they go so far as to scour the rating changes from his matches?

I would bet that if they found hard evidence of cheating in live chess then they would do something similar to a "no-contest" in combat sports where they nullify the results of the match. I'm sure FIDE already has a rule for this eventuality but I have no idea what it is.


This is kinda what I figure, I'm mostly curious how many permutations they carry it down b/c everyone's elo is connected to everyone they played. I don't imagine the ripples would be massive, I'm just curious how far it would go.

That's a good question?? I imagine the ripple effect on other players elo would be too negligible/pervasive to try and manually fix but idk
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
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