EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 91
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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Appendix
Sweden979 Posts
On February 01 2012 20:29 lozarian wrote: That USED to be true, before the ulti change. Far squishier melee heroes can and have been used competitively. His ulti gives him, at level 1, if you're not a complete retard, 550 hp and 45 damage. On a ranged hero, with invisibility. Combine that with his base everything, let's assume he has fuck all because hes clearly an awful hero - level 7, str treads and an Aquila. 50 damage from searing, 45 from ulti, 40 base(avg), 21 from levels, 15 from Aquila. 160 damage near as makes no difference, at 200 ias, on an invis hero, with 1400 hp (do the maths, ring of Aquila, ulti on an ursa, str treads) I'm not saying he's the go-to carry now, just that he gets an unreasonable amount of hate for no good reason - he's actually pretty good since the ulti remake. I'd say that the only thing that stops him being used more is that his attack animation is a massive pile of balls. If he got a decent one so he didn't have to wind up his attack like a geriatric bowler he'd be used a lot. I never find clinkz a gamewinning hero in pubs unless you go for hp on him. The treads->orchid->mkb build just never works. Sure you get the dps from hell, but damage is never at any stage of the game, a problem for clinkz. The problem is the moment you are targeted, you die. Many argue "but he gets hp from his ult", but its very seldom you have a centaur sitting around the team fight just waiting to be consumed, and I find that more often than not, he hasn´t got his ult active during the fight. I often go a fast vanguard on him, just because it puts more strain on your enemies choice whether they want to focus you or somebody else. A vanguard in addition to your ulti, if you have managed to time it right, makes you very hard to kill and you still have insane dps from your skills. Instead of being a little sissy prancing around invis trying to pick of supports, you stand there in clear vision dominating the battlefield and winning the fight. Maybe a bkb or something else is better sometimes but I definitely think people focus too much on adding to the already insane dps of this hero, instead of adding to the other part of death pact and give him actual staying power. | ||
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paper
13197 Posts
On February 01 2012 20:29 lozarian wrote: That USED to be true, before the ulti change. Far squishier melee heroes can and have been used competitively. His ulti gives him, at level 1, if you're not a complete retard, 550 hp and 45 damage. On a ranged hero, with invisibility. Combine that with his base everything, let's assume he has fuck all because hes clearly an awful hero - level 7, str treads and an Aquila. 50 damage from searing, 45 from ulti, 40 base(avg), 21 from levels, 15 from Aquila. 160 damage near as makes no difference, at 200 ias, on an invis hero, with 1400 hp (do the maths, ring of Aquila, ulti on an ursa, str treads) I'm not saying he's the go-to carry now, just that he gets an unreasonable amount of hate for no good reason - he's actually pretty good since the ulti remake. I'd say that the only thing that stops him being used more is that his attack animation is a massive pile of balls. If he got a decent one so he didn't have to wind up his attack like a geriatric bowler he'd be used a lot. His attack animation is soooo good compared to WC3 DotA... what are you talking about XD | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
+20 damage doesn't much matter if it takes you a second to launch the damn thing. The number of times I accidentally cancel an attack because he's still sat in his wheelchair complaining that his hammy knee is giving him gyp when I want him to move is enough reason to dislike his animation. Yes, bonus damage is lovely, but his animation is shit, and if it were improved he'd be used more. All I'm saying. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 01 2012 22:28 Kipsate wrote: Its alot easier to lasthit when you have more damage, WR's animation isn't really excellent either but she has good base damage which is improved by phase/whatever items. Windrunner has 0.4 pre-animation time, which is above average for ranged heroes. Clinkz has 0.7 pre-animation time, which is tied with Drow for being second-worst in the game. Not really a good comparison. On February 01 2012 21:24 Appendix wrote: I often go a fast vanguard on him, just because it puts more strain on your enemies choice whether they want to focus you or somebody else. A vanguard in addition to your ulti, if you have managed to time it right, makes you very hard to kill and you still have insane dps from your skills. Instead of being a little sissy prancing around invis trying to pick of supports, you stand there in clear vision dominating the battlefield and winning the fight. While an HP source may be good later, Vanguard first instead of Orchid is not really a good idea. You delay your core damage items too long, that you miss the timing window where you can really abuse your strong roaming/solo-killing power. You can't play Clinkz like you would a conventional hard carry, because his kit isn't suited for it. He has a skill entirely dedicated to making you a mobile map control threat, and another that makes the jungle the best place for you to refuel/catch people out. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On February 01 2012 22:21 lozarian wrote: For a start, they should be the same, mechanically. +20 damage doesn't much matter if it takes you a second to launch the damn thing. The number of times I accidentally cancel an attack because he's still sat in his wheelchair complaining that his hammy knee is giving him gyp when I want him to move is enough reason to dislike his animation. Yes, bonus damage is lovely, but his animation is shit, and if it were improved he'd be used more. All I'm saying. Attack animation doesn't matter nearly as much as damage when it comes to last hitting. Clinkz is pretty easy to farm with, much easier than sniper who has the best attack animation of any ranged carry. | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
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BliptiX
Canada324 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On February 01 2012 22:28 Kipsate wrote: Its alot easier to lasthit when you have more damage, WR's animation isn't really excellent either but she has good base damage which is improved by phase/whatever items. Yo WR animation really good don't hate on my girl. And damage is really important. Animation is something you get used to. Damage is something that's imbued in a hero. Once you get your timing down with Clinkz (geriatric bowler is such a good term by the way) +20 goes a ridiculously long range, especially since searing arrows doesn't have a cooldown now at level 1. And I agree with Yango. Clinkz doesn't sit around and farm. He goes around and kills. Maybe a Vitality booster (if you notice the enemy investing heavily in dust/sentries) for a late game heart (as opposed to finishing the Vanguard) would be useful in this case. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
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Yurie
12185 Posts
On February 02 2012 05:02 PHILtheTANK wrote: Pick him against Chen and just eat his creeps during teamfight! Pick him with Chen and just eat his creeps during teamfight! ^^ Saw that on a stream the other day. Chen even buffs the HP of the creep. | ||
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Imbajoe
United States857 Posts
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