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On August 21 2014 03:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:11 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:07 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:06 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:59 Plansix wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am pro-patch. I like new stuff and variety. But I don't blame a shitty finals on the patch. Shitty finals are the standard for all competitions, not the exception. List to me some other DOTA2 finals as shitty as the TI4 ones. The only one that comes to mind is the G-1 that Alliance stomped, which was due to China just not advancing in their meta past TI2. How about I just throw a boarder net and list all finals for every sport in creation? Amazing finals are not the norm. Even the greatest world series in the world, when the Redsox won for the first time in nearly 100 years, had shitty finals, like 4-0(but amazing play offs, so it was all ok). You watch finals for the potential of amazing games, accepting that they are not the standard. You're literally redefining the argument to suit your terms. Who cares if baseball has shit finals, if the DOTA2 standard is excellent finals? Jesus stop being so dumb. Ok, lets break this down. Are all games of dota excellent to watch? No. Are all sets of dota amazing series? No. Are finals just sets of games in a series? Yes. Therefore, all finals cannot be excellent. It is impossible. No patch can change that because people are involved and one team can just go full retard and do stupid shit. You can't patch for people cracking under the pressure, which happens all the time. You're still dodging around the ACTUAL ARGUMENT by making up completely irrelevant points. If the norm for DOTA2 finals is that they are good, then shitty finals are not the norm. How can I make this any fucking clearer? When did dota finals being good become the norm? I didn't get the memo. I've seen plenty that have been totally lack luster. I think the last exciting one I watched is like MLG.
Now you're talking sense. When was the last time you watched a finals as shitty as TI4? How did the other TI finals match up?
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You've got a great sample size of 4 there buddy.
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TI 1 and 2 finals weren't that great either...
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On August 21 2014 03:16 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:15 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:11 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:07 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:06 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:59 Plansix wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am pro-patch. I like new stuff and variety. But I don't blame a shitty finals on the patch. Shitty finals are the standard for all competitions, not the exception. List to me some other DOTA2 finals as shitty as the TI4 ones. The only one that comes to mind is the G-1 that Alliance stomped, which was due to China just not advancing in their meta past TI2. How about I just throw a boarder net and list all finals for every sport in creation? Amazing finals are not the norm. Even the greatest world series in the world, when the Redsox won for the first time in nearly 100 years, had shitty finals, like 4-0(but amazing play offs, so it was all ok). You watch finals for the potential of amazing games, accepting that they are not the standard. You're literally redefining the argument to suit your terms. Who cares if baseball has shit finals, if the DOTA2 standard is excellent finals? Jesus stop being so dumb. Ok, lets break this down. Are all games of dota excellent to watch? No. Are all sets of dota amazing series? No. Are finals just sets of games in a series? Yes. Therefore, all finals cannot be excellent. It is impossible. No patch can change that because people are involved and one team can just go full retard and do stupid shit. You can't patch for people cracking under the pressure, which happens all the time. You're still dodging around the ACTUAL ARGUMENT by making up completely irrelevant points. If the norm for DOTA2 finals is that they are good, then shitty finals are not the norm. How can I make this any fucking clearer? When did dota finals being good become the norm? I didn't get the memo. I've seen plenty that have been totally lack luster. I think the last exciting one I watched is like MLG. Now you're talking sense. When was the last time you watched a finals as shitty as TI4? How did the other TI finals match up?
TI3 is the highlight and greatest of the 4. 1 - 2 are "meh" from all reports. Greatness is not the standard in TI finals(or any finals). Thus it cannot be cured with a patch.
Shitty games are always a threat and players can always throw.
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Is there some TL group or something I can use to find people to play with?
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On August 21 2014 03:15 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:09 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:04 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:00 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:58 goody153 wrote:
Oh yeah about tinker.
Idk if it needs a nerf or not but the Hero is just so goddamn so strong in lategame. Like really really strong. How do you even nerf the hero without completely making it useless ? There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used ? Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique It's been done before. Tinker can't refresh BKB, Necro, HotD, Arcane (which doesn't make sense IMO), Midas, Refresher (likewise), or Linken's. The last one might be WC3 mechanics, but I'm not certain.
IMO, just nerfing march should be enough. Change damage type from universal to magic, reduce the width of the thing so tinker can't kill 2 camps with each march, and maybe reduce the damage if needed.
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On August 21 2014 03:20 Najda wrote:
Is there some TL group or something I can use to find people to play with?
There is a group and a clan or whatever ingame, but i don't think people use those that much. IRC would be better i guess
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Also why are we only talking about finals? There were plenty of shitty Dota 2 series off the top of my head.
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On August 21 2014 03:20 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:15 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:04 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:00 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:58 goody153 wrote:
Oh yeah about tinker.
Idk if it needs a nerf or not but the Hero is just so goddamn so strong in lategame. Like really really strong. How do you even nerf the hero without completely making it useless ? There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used ? Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique It's been done before. Tinker can't refresh BKB, Necro, HotD, Arcane (which doesn't make sense IMO), Midas, Refresher (likewise), or Linken's. The last one might be WC3 mechanics, but I'm not certain. IMO, just nerfing march should be enough. Change damage type from universal to magic, reduce the width of the thing so tinker can't kill 2 camps with each march, and maybe reduce the damage if needed.
Suddenly Tinkers everywhere pick up Veils.
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On August 21 2014 03:22 Daozzt wrote:
Also why are we only talking about finals? There were plenty of shitty Dota 2 series off the top of my head.
People like to limit their sample set so they can always be right. Its classic internet argument.
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On August 21 2014 03:20 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:15 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:04 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:00 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:58 goody153 wrote:
Oh yeah about tinker.
Idk if it needs a nerf or not but the Hero is just so goddamn so strong in lategame. Like really really strong. How do you even nerf the hero without completely making it useless ? There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used ? Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique It's been done before. Tinker can't refresh BKB, Necro, HotD, Arcane (which doesn't make sense IMO), Midas, Refresher (likewise), or Linken's. The last one might be WC3 mechanics, but I'm not certain. IMO, just nerfing march should be enough. Change damage type from universal to magic, reduce the width of the thing so tinker can't kill 2 camps with each march, and maybe reduce the damage if needed.
Imagine it being more damaging but with less machines so you could be rewarded for dodging in between them. Not really a balance idea, I just think it'd be fun.
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On August 21 2014 03:22 Unattended Cake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:20 buhhy wrote:On August 21 2014 03:15 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:04 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:00 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:58 goody153 wrote:
Oh yeah about tinker.
Idk if it needs a nerf or not but the Hero is just so goddamn so strong in lategame. Like really really strong. How do you even nerf the hero without completely making it useless ? There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used ? Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique It's been done before. Tinker can't refresh BKB, Necro, HotD, Arcane (which doesn't make sense IMO), Midas, Refresher (likewise), or Linken's. The last one might be WC3 mechanics, but I'm not certain. IMO, just nerfing march should be enough. Change damage type from universal to magic, reduce the width of the thing so tinker can't kill 2 camps with each march, and maybe reduce the damage if needed. Suddenly Tinkers everywhere pick up Veils.
Universal damage is affected by magic resistance so veil works on march now.
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On August 21 2014 03:25 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:20 buhhy wrote:On August 21 2014 03:15 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:04 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 goody153 wrote:On August 21 2014 03:00 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:58 goody153 wrote:
Oh yeah about tinker.
Idk if it needs a nerf or not but the Hero is just so goddamn so strong in lategame. Like really really strong. How do you even nerf the hero without completely making it useless ? There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used ? Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique It's been done before. Tinker can't refresh BKB, Necro, HotD, Arcane (which doesn't make sense IMO), Midas, Refresher (likewise), or Linken's. The last one might be WC3 mechanics, but I'm not certain. IMO, just nerfing march should be enough. Change damage type from universal to magic, reduce the width of the thing so tinker can't kill 2 camps with each march, and maybe reduce the damage if needed. Imagine it being more damaging but with less machines so you could be rewarded for dodging in between them. Not really a balance idea, I just think it'd be fun.
That does sound more fun, actually. But I guess if there's 3 waves going at once, it'd be impossible to weave through.
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Thinning march wouldn't be bad. You would even keep it the same size, but reduce the number of machines towards the edges. Then he could farm 3 camps at once, but it would be less efficient. You don't need to slow down his farm much to bring him back down to reasonable.
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scaling the aoe radius of march would do wonders as well
as in how big the area of the map is covered in march, not the individual hit-radius of each robot thinger
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Anything to stop his exponential growth after travels lol. I'd rather not add more exceptions to the game, BKB is already a pain in the ass to remember what does and doesn't affect it.
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On August 21 2014 03:16 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2014 03:15 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:11 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:09 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:07 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 03:06 Plansix wrote:On August 21 2014 03:02 Acritter wrote:On August 21 2014 02:59 Plansix wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I am pro-patch. I like new stuff and variety. But I don't blame a shitty finals on the patch. Shitty finals are the standard for all competitions, not the exception. List to me some other DOTA2 finals as shitty as the TI4 ones. The only one that comes to mind is the G-1 that Alliance stomped, which was due to China just not advancing in their meta past TI2. How about I just throw a boarder net and list all finals for every sport in creation? Amazing finals are not the norm. Even the greatest world series in the world, when the Redsox won for the first time in nearly 100 years, had shitty finals, like 4-0(but amazing play offs, so it was all ok). You watch finals for the potential of amazing games, accepting that they are not the standard. You're literally redefining the argument to suit your terms. Who cares if baseball has shit finals, if the DOTA2 standard is excellent finals? Jesus stop being so dumb. Ok, lets break this down. Are all games of dota excellent to watch? No. Are all sets of dota amazing series? No. Are finals just sets of games in a series? Yes. Therefore, all finals cannot be excellent. It is impossible. No patch can change that because people are involved and one team can just go full retard and do stupid shit. You can't patch for people cracking under the pressure, which happens all the time. You're still dodging around the ACTUAL ARGUMENT by making up completely irrelevant points. If the norm for DOTA2 finals is that they are good, then shitty finals are not the norm. How can I make this any fucking clearer? When did dota finals being good become the norm? I didn't get the memo. I've seen plenty that have been totally lack luster. I think the last exciting one I watched is like MLG. Now you're talking sense. When was the last time you watched a finals as shitty as TI4? How did the other TI finals match up?
Every single GSL in Wings of Liberty.
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On August 21 2014 03:33 buhhy wrote:
Anything to stop his exponential growth after travels lol. I'd rather not add more exceptions to the game, BKB is already a pain in the ass to remember what does and doesn't affect it.
When did BoT's change from 2200 to 2000? Is a revert too much?
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Each robot causes its own damage and has an explosion radius. So the more robots you hit, the more damage you take. The total number of robots created is 144 over 6 seconds. They could reduce that number and put the majority of the robots toward the center of the AOE.
Also, Dota is nuts because that ability is insane. Makes tiny robots that explode with their own AOEs, what the fuck is this game.
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On August 21 2014 03:38 Plansix wrote:
Each robot causes its own damage and has an explosion radius. So the more robots you hit, the more damage you take. The total number of robots created is 144 over 6 seconds. They could reduce that number and put the majority of the robots toward the center of the AOE.
Also, Dota is nuts because that ability is insane. Makes tiny robots that explode with their own AOEs, what the fuck is this game.
There was a WC3 spell like that, far from groundbreaking. Dota has several abilities that were far more complicated to create.
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EPT
