EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 6207
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 02:58 goody153 wrote: Oh yeah about tinker. Idk if it needs a nerf or not but the Hero is just so goddamn so strong in lategame. Like really really strong. How do you even nerf the hero without completely making it useless ? There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 02:59 teddyoojo wrote: im not talking about pubs We don't have any real tournaments going on right now, though. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
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goody153
44277 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:00 Acritter wrote: There's actually no way. Look at the history of Tinker. He gets popular, completely takes over the scene, and then gets an item removed from Rearm and vanishes entirely. There was a brief period where not everyone knew how to Tink that he was just on the edge of being good, but sadly he's just too damn tough to balance. Probably we're going to see Blink removed from Rearm. Maybe some people will use him after that, but I doubt it. Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used after rearm? idk | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 02:59 Plansix wrote: Don't get me wrong, I am pro-patch. I like new stuff and variety. But I don't blame a shitty finals on the patch. Shitty finals are the standard for all competitions, not the exception. List to me some other DOTA2 finals as shitty as the TI4 ones. The only one that comes to mind is the G-1 that Alliance stomped, which was due to China just not advancing in their meta past TI2. | ||
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goody153
44277 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:02 Acritter wrote: List to me some other DOTA2 finals as shitty as the TI4 ones. The only one that comes to mind is the G-1 that Alliance stomped, which was due to China just not advancing in their meta past TI2. oh D2L you know C9 vs Navi remember the support tinker but that was hilarious .. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:02 goody153 wrote: Increment on rearm mana for every spell and items that are used ? Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:02 Acritter wrote: List to me some other DOTA2 finals as shitty as the TI4 ones. The only one that comes to mind is the G-1 that Alliance stomped, which was due to China just not advancing in their meta past TI2. How about I just throw a boarder net and list all finals for every sport in creation? Amazing finals are not the norm. Even the greatest world series in the world, when the Redsox won for the first time in nearly 100 years, had shitty finals, like 4-0(but amazing play offs, so it was all ok). You watch finals for the potential of amazing games, accepting that they are not the standard. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:04 goody153 wrote: oh D2L you know C9 vs Navi remember the support tinker but that was hilarious .. I don't even remember that. I'm looking on Liquipedia but they don't list any Na'Vi C9 finals. Are you sure you have that right? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:06 Plansix wrote: How about I just throw a boarder net and list all finals for every sport in creation? Amazing finals are not the norm. Even the greatest world series in the world, when the Redsox won for the first time in nearly 100 years, had shitty finals, like 4-0(but amazing play offs, so it was all ok). You watch finals for the potential of amazing games, accepting that they are not the standard. You're literally redefining the argument to suit your terms. Who cares if baseball has shit finals, if the DOTA2 standard is excellent finals? Jesus stop being so dumb. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:07 Acritter wrote: You're literally redefining the argument to suit your terms. Who cares if baseball has shit finals, if the DOTA2 standard is excellent finals? Jesus stop being so dumb. Ok, lets break this down. Are all games of dota excellent to watch? No. Are all sets of dota amazing series? No. Are finals just sets of games in a series? Yes. Therefore, all finals cannot be excellent. It is impossible. No patch can change that because people are involved and one team can just go full retard and do stupid shit. You can't patch for people cracking under the pressure, which happens all the time. | ||
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goody153
44277 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:04 Acritter wrote: Holy shit that would be complicated. It might work, but wow that would be obnoxious and hard to balance. Worse, it would kind of mess with the idea of the hero: you're supposed to use lots of spells and items! It would definitely nerf him, and it's got a lot of nuance to the level of nerfing, but I'm not sure it's the way to go. Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 21 2014 02:59 Plansix wrote: Don't get me wrong, I am pro-patch. I like new stuff and variety. But I don't blame a shitty finals on the patch. Shitty finals are the standard for all competitions, not the exception. This is true. I, however, wouldn't mind a patch that nerfed tinker, void, DP, Lycan, and did some smaller nerfs for razor SM and a few others. Tinker: either nerf his early game, his ancient farming, or make EB unrefreshable. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:09 Plansix wrote: Ok, lets break this down. Are all games of dota excellent to watch? No. Are all sets of dota amazing series? No. Are finals just sets of games in a series? Yes. Therefore, all finals cannot be excellent. It is impossible. No patch can change that because people are involved and one team can just go full retard and do stupid shit. You can't patch for people cracking under the pressure, which happens all the time. You're still dodging around the ACTUAL ARGUMENT by making up completely irrelevant points. If the norm for DOTA2 finals is that they are good, then shitty finals are not the norm. How can I make this any fucking clearer? | ||
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goody153
44277 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:06 Acritter wrote: I don't even remember that. I'm looking on Liquipedia but they don't list any Na'Vi C9 finals. Are you sure you have that right? Not sure if that was the tournament name or that was D2CL but it happened. Oh it was hilarious C9 fucked up with the draft during the last game and drafted the legendary tinker support for AUI rofl | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:11 Acritter wrote: You're still dodging around the ACTUAL ARGUMENT by making up completely irrelevant points. If the norm for DOTA2 finals is that they are good, then shitty finals are not the norm. How can I make this any fucking clearer? It is, however, normal to have a shitty finals on occasion. Deal with it. | ||
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7080 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:06 Acritter wrote: I don't even remember that. I'm looking on Liquipedia but they don't list any Na'Vi C9 finals. Are you sure you have that right? It was D2CL, not D2L http://www.datdota.com/match.php?q=611936738 | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:11 Acritter wrote: You're still dodging around the ACTUAL ARGUMENT by making up completely irrelevant points. If the norm for DOTA2 finals is that they are good, then shitty finals are not the norm. How can I make this any fucking clearer? When did dota finals being good become the norm? I didn't get the memo. I've seen plenty that have been totally lack luster. I think the last exciting one I watched is like MLG. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On August 21 2014 03:09 goody153 wrote: Hmmm how about increment on mana for every repeated rearm of an item that is used multiple times ? and has some cooldown timer on the increment of mana or a duration of how long the incremented mana lasts ? rofl i actually just thrown that idea cause i have no other solution that i can think off .. lets just leave that to icefrog lol and removing item usage is a no-no that's why the hero is unique It's been done before. Tinker can't refresh BKB, Necro, HotD, Arcane (which doesn't make sense IMO), Midas, Refresher (likewise), or Linken's. The last one might be WC3 mechanics, but I'm not certain. | ||
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