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On December 14 2011 09:37 Kipsate wrote:
The problem with Anti-Mage is that the dota 2 heropool is not large enough yet, vital heroes such as Lycan, Bane elemental, Shadow Demon, Invoker, Phantom lancer and many others are still missing.
but yes, right now he is definitely out of control, only coordinated teams can stop him.
bane elemental and phantom lancer are not vital heroes competitively.
most important competitive dota1 heroes still missing from dota2:
lycan
sylla
shadow demon (honestly this guy is best left out of the picture until the end...)
panda
invoker
chaos knight
obsidian destroyer
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On December 14 2011 10:24 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:37 Kipsate wrote:
The problem with Anti-Mage is that the dota 2 heropool is not large enough yet, vital heroes such as Lycan, Bane elemental, Shadow Demon, Invoker, Phantom lancer and many others are still missing.
but yes, right now he is definitely out of control, only coordinated teams can stop him. bane elemental and phantom lancer are not vital heroes competitively. most important competitive dota1 heroes still missing from dota2: lycan sylla shadow demon (honestly this guy is best left out of the picture until the end...) panda invoker chaos knight obsidian destroyer
I hate most of these heroes so much and quite a few of them just broken, so in a way not looking forward to them being added. (though what you said is complexly true)
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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i'm really looking forward to sylla bear 
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On December 14 2011 11:44 flamewheel wrote:
i like pandas!
what about kangaroos?
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His counters don't exist in the game yet, he got buffed a bit recently, he got a lot of attention in the international and later tournaments so pubstars learnt how to play him better. All of that means he's a pain in the arse in dota2 more than 1, combine that with him being quite arguably the best carry in dota2, and you have a hero that will show up in every game.
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On December 14 2011 10:24 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 09:37 Kipsate wrote:
The problem with Anti-Mage is that the dota 2 heropool is not large enough yet, vital heroes such as Lycan, Bane elemental, Shadow Demon, Invoker, Phantom lancer and many others are still missing.
but yes, right now he is definitely out of control, only coordinated teams can stop him. bane elemental and phantom lancer are not vital heroes competitively. most important competitive dota1 heroes still missing from dota2: lycan sylla shadow demon (honestly this guy is best left out of the picture until the end...) panda invoker chaos knight obsidian destroyer
I like chaos knight, but since when is he and obsidian a competitive hero? I haven't been following the pro picks for a long time now but I thought he was too random and unreliable, and low mana pool, and obisidian has no escape mechanism and needed babysit to be competitive. Chaos knight is fun though.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2011 20:01 Muki wrote:
I like chaos knight, but since when is he and obsidian a competitive hero? I haven't been following the pro picks for a long time now but I thought he was too random and unreliable, and low mana pool, and obisidian has no escape mechanism and needed babysit to be competitive. Chaos knight is fun though.
Really?
I've seen Chinese teams run him as a stable mid solo on several occasions.
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On December 14 2011 20:07 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:01 Muki wrote:
I like chaos knight, but since when is he and obsidian a competitive hero? I haven't been following the pro picks for a long time now but I thought he was too random and unreliable, and low mana pool, and obisidian has no escape mechanism and needed babysit to be competitive. Chaos knight is fun though. Really? I've seen Chinese teams run him as a stable mid solo on several occasions.
I want to see that, can you tell me which teams? Obsidian looked so dead to me when Arcane Ring was made into Arcane Boots, I'd like to see how he is played properly in 6.72.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:04 semantics wrote:what about kangaroos?
In before they make Pandaren Brewmaster Kangaroo Brewmaster.
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Obsidian flat out wrecks pretty much any mana dependant solo, or int based solo. He needs to avoid being yanked for a bit, but you kinda just cede the lane to him if you're a str caster or int. He also hits like a truck, and oneshots illusions for basically the entire game. Having a 40 damage difference means you lose the last hit deny war, and no mana means no harassment. You either hang back till you can actually cast something, which gives him free farm, or accept that this is now a passive lane, and wait for ganks.
The buff to arcane orb for 0cd level 1 lets him go prison/aura without forcing him to be level 12 before being able to participate.
Ck has just about startedto be used from what I hear, despite him having been borderline broken as soon as rift got changed to, with the abundance of cheap mana items his only real problem is solved simply. The ability to instagib most supports on a 6 second cooldown is nice too.
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On December 14 2011 20:48 lozarian wrote:
Obsidian flat out wrecks pretty much any mana dependant solo, or int based solo. He needs to avoid being yanked for a bit, but you kinda just cede the lane to him if you're a str caster or int. He also hits like a truck, and oneshots illusions for basically the entire game. Having a 40 damage difference means you lose the last hit deny war, and no mana means no harassment. You either hang back till you can actually cast something, which gives him free farm, or accept that this is now a passive lane, and wait for ganks.
The buff to arcane orb for 0cd level 1 lets him go prison/aura without forcing him to be level 12 before being able to participate.
Ck has just about startedto be used from what I hear, despite him having been borderline broken as soon as rift got changed to, with the abundance of cheap mana items his only real problem is solved simply. The ability to instagib most supports on a 6 second cooldown is nice too.
I see that Obsidian can still become an unstoppable monster, but I imagined it would be too risky to pick him instead of other solo heroes with better survivability.
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Yeah, he's less stable in terms of surviving than some heroes with better escape mechs (I.e. All the used carries ATM) but he is far better at controlling/winning a lane than they are, giving his team extra breathing room they can use to bank harder, or dedicate to controlling some other aspect of the game.
That's just how I view him, I might be biased because I love Obsi though :p
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On December 14 2011 20:15 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 12:04 semantics wrote:On December 14 2011 11:44 flamewheel wrote:
i like pandas! what about kangaroos? In before they make Pandaren Brewmaster Kangaroo Brewmaster.
and then they brew disgusting Fosters? ^^ lol
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United States47024 Posts
TBH, arguably the bigger issue with Obsidian mid is not how well he controls the lane, but rather how he doesn't put immediate pressure on the enemy team's other lanes when he's winning. He doesn't present the gank threat that someone like Beastmaster or Puck does, and he doesn't take towers quickly solo either. He's getting farm and suppressing the development of his lane opponent, but that doesn't pay immediate dividends.
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chaos knight is a natural truck and with soul ring + jango aka drum he ganks very hard and fast and solves his mana problems. the damage on the stun was also buffed recently. hes currently a near insta pick/ban.
obsidian hits very very hard once he gets farmed there isnt really any issue to laning him if hes solo, however he's not played that much right now after WDC
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Is OD a counter to AM?Because I thought that AM had like 62.5% magic reduction and OD does alot of magic damage right?I guess he can CC him(or himself for that matter) but still.
Then again, I guess OD like 3shots supports or 1shots them with his ultimate at some point.
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Obsidian does pure damage, which goes through all armor and spell resistance. Antimage has a lot from both, but low hp so OD can eat AM for breakfast if he gets only a few seconds of help from a disabler.
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On December 14 2011 08:40 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 08:34 scorch- wrote:On December 14 2011 08:20 Rybka wrote:On December 14 2011 07:59 FinestHour wrote:
Anti mage is not overpowered, for the last time you just arent playing the game right. Instead of telling people they're not doing it right, tell them how to do it right. And don't just say "lol gank AM when he jungs lol". His blink requires too much coordination for most mid and low-level pugs. P.S. AM is in every pug. That hero is broken on every level, it's not just a pub problem. Look no further than every single dota 2 tournament played to date for proof. That hero is banned or first picked because it is too strong. If you know how to stop AM, go let the top teams know so they can use their bans better. If he is that broken in pro games, wouldn't he be banned every single game? Unless there are other 4 even more broken heroes, I don't think some team captains agree with what you are saying. Plus, why nerf him if he isn't considered that strong in Dota 1? Time and new heroes should fix that. Last tournament I saw, Lich was banned more often than AM, why aren't people complaining about Lich? It is a pub problem. Here's some data about the ESWC, that didn't happen too long ago: http://gosugamers.net/general/features/2846Furion: Banned in 18, first picked in 2 out of 25 matches. NS: Banned in 11, first picked in 5. AM: Banned in 12, first picked in 5. Chen: Banned in 13, first picked in 4. Lich: Banned in 12, first picked in 5. I guess we need to fix Furion before working on AM.
There are so many factors that could lead to a hero not being banned or first picked. I'm not sure why you think looking at bans/picks is the way to see how strong a hero is. There are other carries that are almost as strong as AM, but picking Furion is never bad because he works well with almost any lineup that doesn't include a tinker. First picking furion gives almost no indication how you want to build your team and forces the other captain to pick 40% of their team in the dark. First picking AM gives the other team a good idea of the types of teams you can pick. Do you see why your statistics aren't really relevant?
A better idea would be to look at heroes' win/loss record in 3-game series.
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EPT
