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On February 15 2012 13:32 NB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 13:20 evantrees wrote:
I have occasinally bought an orb of venom by accident the sell for full price period helps with that a little.
But I'll live with that chance for an easy to use shop.
Can always keep f1 set to hero then ctrl group 1 to hero as well. might help? i use all number key actually... and F key as well... Blame on my god-like sc2 skill xD Btw what is the full price period? also is there ways to sell items faster than right click sell? Anyway, back on Windrunner being imbalance: watch this http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/765-dignitas-vs-ariana-the-defense-quarter-final-lb-game-3. Basicly by planning a support hero in mid, they simply deny the farming power of invoker plus his mid game ganking power. You could see Invoker sit on phase + wand + gaunet of strength at 10 mins mark which is nothing. His mana pool is limited to use 3 spells at lv 7 and windrunner is sitting strong with one of the highest CS in game stepping into mid-game. I know that she isnt PERFECT OP such as who ever have wr gona win the game but compare with most heroes in the current pool, she obviously slightly above top tier and touching the line of over power. Unlike Darkseer which most pro team are QQ-ing about, WR could be run in any formation, any strat from push to babysit to mid-game aggressive play. You might debate well invoker is like that but invoker has a much higher skill curve which make sense unlike just spam Q and hope for a lucky shackle ~_~... Icefrog, nerf her PLEASE T__T
Windrunner OP? No way. Yeah she has the best stun in the game but if you catch her with get windrunner on cool down she is squishy as well. I land a ton of double shackle shots but I'm telling you it is really hard to pull off as you need a really good positioning.
Also, why does everyone talk about skills using QWER? No one uses legacy keys? I really dislike seeing that as it reminds me of LoL.
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On February 15 2012 23:39 HypernovA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 13:32 NB wrote:On February 15 2012 13:20 evantrees wrote:
I have occasinally bought an orb of venom by accident the sell for full price period helps with that a little.
But I'll live with that chance for an easy to use shop.
Can always keep f1 set to hero then ctrl group 1 to hero as well. might help? i use all number key actually... and F key as well... Blame on my god-like sc2 skill xD Btw what is the full price period? also is there ways to sell items faster than right click sell? Anyway, back on Windrunner being imbalance: watch this http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/765-dignitas-vs-ariana-the-defense-quarter-final-lb-game-3. Basicly by planning a support hero in mid, they simply deny the farming power of invoker plus his mid game ganking power. You could see Invoker sit on phase + wand + gaunet of strength at 10 mins mark which is nothing. His mana pool is limited to use 3 spells at lv 7 and windrunner is sitting strong with one of the highest CS in game stepping into mid-game. I know that she isnt PERFECT OP such as who ever have wr gona win the game but compare with most heroes in the current pool, she obviously slightly above top tier and touching the line of over power. Unlike Darkseer which most pro team are QQ-ing about, WR could be run in any formation, any strat from push to babysit to mid-game aggressive play. You might debate well invoker is like that but invoker has a much higher skill curve which make sense unlike just spam Q and hope for a lucky shackle ~_~... Icefrog, nerf her PLEASE T__T Windrunner OP? No way. Yeah she has the best stun in the game but if you catch her with get windrunner on cool down she is squishy as well. I land a ton of double shackle shots but I'm telling you it is really hard to pull off as you need a really good positioning. Also, why does everyone talk about skills using QWER? No one uses legacy keys? I really dislike seeing that as it reminds me of LoL.
QWER give you much more room to customize your other hotkeys for items and such.... but legacy is much better to play special heroes like morph, puck etc,,,
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Speaking of which, when it comes to Puck, does Jaunting have a set keybind? Because i was playing him a few days ago and it looked like it was unbound
I can't remember if I tried pressing Q again, bit I was clicking it a lot of times and hated myself every time i did it
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On February 15 2012 19:53 Hoban wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 19:47 cilinder007 wrote:On February 15 2012 14:27 Hoban wrote:On February 15 2012 13:32 NB wrote:On February 15 2012 13:20 evantrees wrote:
I have occasinally bought an orb of venom by accident the sell for full price period helps with that a little.
But I'll live with that chance for an easy to use shop.
Can always keep f1 set to hero then ctrl group 1 to hero as well. might help? i use all number key actually... and F key as well... Blame on my god-like sc2 skill xD Btw what is the full price period? also is there ways to sell items faster than right click sell? Anyway, back on Windrunner being imbalance: watch this http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/765-dignitas-vs-ariana-the-defense-quarter-final-lb-game-3. Basicly by planning a support hero in mid, they simply deny the farming power of invoker plus his mid game ganking power. You could see Invoker sit on phase + wand + gaunet of strength at 10 mins mark which is nothing. His mana pool is limited to use 3 spells at lv 7 and windrunner is sitting strong with one of the highest CS in game stepping into mid-game. I know that she isnt PERFECT OP such as who ever have wr gona win the game but compare with most heroes in the current pool, she obviously slightly above top tier and touching the line of over power. Unlike Darkseer which most pro team are QQ-ing about, WR could be run in any formation, any strat from push to babysit to mid-game aggressive play. You might debate well invoker is like that but invoker has a much higher skill curve which make sense unlike just spam Q and hope for a lucky shackle ~_~... Icefrog, nerf her PLEASE T__T Invoker should be able to LH better than windrunner as soon as he gets some levels (5+ I imagine) I highly dissagree with this, wr has a ton higher base dmg than invoker so she should be able to get to phase boots earlier than invoker and after than invoker shouldnt be able to get a single lasthit against her, he has great regen if he goes gor quas but that doesnt help much in lasthiting and its not like he can actauly kill wr I see your point there now. I had to go back and look at their base stats but you are correct. I guess if invoker leveld E after a point in Q/R/W it might bode better but that is ~lvl 5. I don't know many invokers that prioritize E, or who sacrifice W for an extra point in E to get the last hit advantage. I still don't think she is OP though. Yea, she is strong at all stages in the game but she doesn't get a 4.2k item and suddenly multiply the dps of your team by 190%. Oh Dark Seer.
Something I'm trying out at the moment is getting E at level 1. With the intel gain and all 3 orbs as E, you get 11 extra damage for last hitting. It also allows you access to a few spells which are useful, such as ice wall and deafening blast (well, only ice wall and deafening blast  ). My skill order is normally EQRWQQR then max W. I can switch it around a little (delaying W if I'm not worried about ganks, if cold snap is going to be extremely useful, or if I need the extra regen, and getting level 2 invoke if sunstrike can get FB or an assist).
In lane I just spam cold snap if they ever try to harass me, then do as much damage as possible with it. With level 2 invoke I either get ice wall or tornado, and when I get about 3 levels in W i start tornado EMP spam.
What you lose: Either delaying level 3 invoke or a couple of levels in W(3rd level in Q can be dropped, but I think it helps a lot), sometimes early ghost walk, and generally your early game spells are completely different (coldsnap icewall are the staples pre-9), as well as some of your mobility.
What you gain: early last hitting power (E), early sustain (Q), and imo much more powerful laning spells than what wex makes available.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Playing Invoker without Legacy can be a pain, however ive gotten used to it with other heroes, I play with QWEF instead though, and use R for special abilities such as puck orb or Doom's additional abilities.
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On February 16 2012 00:37 LAN-f34r wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 19:53 Hoban wrote:On February 15 2012 19:47 cilinder007 wrote:On February 15 2012 14:27 Hoban wrote:On February 15 2012 13:32 NB wrote:On February 15 2012 13:20 evantrees wrote:
I have occasinally bought an orb of venom by accident the sell for full price period helps with that a little.
But I'll live with that chance for an easy to use shop.
Can always keep f1 set to hero then ctrl group 1 to hero as well. might help? i use all number key actually... and F key as well... Blame on my god-like sc2 skill xD Btw what is the full price period? also is there ways to sell items faster than right click sell? Anyway, back on Windrunner being imbalance: watch this http://www.joindota.com/en/vods/765-dignitas-vs-ariana-the-defense-quarter-final-lb-game-3. Basicly by planning a support hero in mid, they simply deny the farming power of invoker plus his mid game ganking power. You could see Invoker sit on phase + wand + gaunet of strength at 10 mins mark which is nothing. His mana pool is limited to use 3 spells at lv 7 and windrunner is sitting strong with one of the highest CS in game stepping into mid-game. I know that she isnt PERFECT OP such as who ever have wr gona win the game but compare with most heroes in the current pool, she obviously slightly above top tier and touching the line of over power. Unlike Darkseer which most pro team are QQ-ing about, WR could be run in any formation, any strat from push to babysit to mid-game aggressive play. You might debate well invoker is like that but invoker has a much higher skill curve which make sense unlike just spam Q and hope for a lucky shackle ~_~... Icefrog, nerf her PLEASE T__T Invoker should be able to LH better than windrunner as soon as he gets some levels (5+ I imagine) I highly dissagree with this, wr has a ton higher base dmg than invoker so she should be able to get to phase boots earlier than invoker and after than invoker shouldnt be able to get a single lasthit against her, he has great regen if he goes gor quas but that doesnt help much in lasthiting and its not like he can actauly kill wr I see your point there now. I had to go back and look at their base stats but you are correct. I guess if invoker leveld E after a point in Q/R/W it might bode better but that is ~lvl 5. I don't know many invokers that prioritize E, or who sacrifice W for an extra point in E to get the last hit advantage. I still don't think she is OP though. Yea, she is strong at all stages in the game but she doesn't get a 4.2k item and suddenly multiply the dps of your team by 190%. Oh Dark Seer. Something I'm trying out at the moment is getting E at level 1. With the intel gain and all 3 orbs as E, you get 11 extra damage for last hitting. It also allows you access to a few spells which are useful, such as ice wall and deafening blast (well, only ice wall and deafening blast ). My skill order is normally EQRWQQR then max W. I can switch it around a little (delaying W if I'm not worried about ganks, if cold snap is going to be extremely useful, or if I need the extra regen, and getting level 2 invoke if sunstrike can get FB or an assist). In lane I just spam cold snap if they ever try to harass me, then do as much damage as possible with it. With level 2 invoke I either get ice wall or tornado, and when I get about 3 levels in W i start tornado EMP spam. What you lose: Either delaying level 3 invoke or a couple of levels in W(3rd level in Q can be dropped, but I think it helps a lot), sometimes early ghost walk, and generally your early game spells are completely different (coldsnap icewall are the staples pre-9), as well as some of your mobility. What you gain: early last hitting power (E), early sustain (Q), and imo much more powerful laning spells than what wex makes available.
1 level on W give you like 0 range on tornado which is needed for you to gank people. remember invoker ganking period is already way slower than other mid solo which mostly are lv 6 like Beast master... Pushing it to level 8 to get a 2nd W is also really late which result you being 1-2 kills by the time u start leaving mid.
The main problem i have with people getting E early on is that it is so useless... if you get Q at lv1 and ulti at level 2, you could start trading life with the enemy hero in lane using cold snap knowing that you HP regen will simply be far superior by 3 points in Q and soon dominate the lane.
I have, however, seen Invoker DPS style on side lane where he just go max QE with 1 point W(for ghost walk) and pure DPS with lavar summons support. This however is viable with Icewall spam to stop pushes and points in E will give you a large amount of mana. It like you are playing sniper: desolator, shadow blade and slow... plus mini stun from cold snap and Sunstrike to snipe people =)).... Pretty funny actually xD
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Skilling Exort on invoker is just a waste.
The normal way is to get 1 lvl of Quas at lvl 1 and then max Wex first
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Legacy keys all the way, can't get used to that QWER stuff at all, becuase it makes hitting A for attack, as DotA/Wc3/SC/SC2 players are all so used to doing, extremely awkward. And it seems alot of legacy keys make more sense positiong your hand wise, to be able to access the neccesary skills properly, and still position your hand in a way to hit H + A easily.
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On February 16 2012 03:00 ch33psh33p wrote:
Legacy keys all the way, can't get used to that QWER stuff at all, becuase it makes hitting A for attack, as DotA/Wc3/SC/SC2 players are all so used to doing, extremely awkward. And it seems alot of legacy keys make more sense positiong your hand wise, to be able to access the neccesary skills properly, and still position your hand in a way to hit H + A easily.
WTF is wrong with your hands? Hitting A is hard with skills on QWER? Is that serious?
Anyway, puck port is on D in QWER setup, whoever asked that.
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On February 16 2012 03:00 ch33psh33p wrote:
Legacy keys all the way, can't get used to that QWER stuff at all, becuase it makes hitting A for attack, as DotA/Wc3/SC/SC2 players are all so used to doing, extremely awkward. And it seems alot of legacy keys make more sense positiong your hand wise, to be able to access the neccesary skills properly, and still position your hand in a way to hit H + A easily.
It all depends on the hero. Some legacy keys are great, some have really weird placements. I used to hate "X marks the spot" for example. I ended up going with QWER because it's simple, allows me always have easy to use item hotkeys and recently released heroes don't always have the legacy version. The biggest problem were the skills that used inverted fingers compared to the legacy version, or the same hotkey for a diferent skills, like with Mirana's skillset. Also Involker, the default keys still feel weird.
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On February 16 2012 03:10 scorch- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 03:00 ch33psh33p wrote:
Legacy keys all the way, can't get used to that QWER stuff at all, becuase it makes hitting A for attack, as DotA/Wc3/SC/SC2 players are all so used to doing, extremely awkward. And it seems alot of legacy keys make more sense positiong your hand wise, to be able to access the neccesary skills properly, and still position your hand in a way to hit H + A easily. WTF is wrong with your hands? Hitting A is hard with skills on QWER? Is that serious? Anyway, puck port is on D in QWER setup, whoever asked that.
Years of DotA have hardened my hotkeys skills.
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lol, at this point I'm pretty sure Valve only gives out deadline dates for humor's sake.
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Woke up to see if servers were up. Back to sleep I go!
I do think there is a trade off for invoker leveling E over W. You gain last hitting power but you lose some ganking potential. With Q and E you gain lane dominance but again losing gank potential. Here lies the problem with invoker, you need to decide if it is more beneficial to farm up and win your lane or gank whenever possible.
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On February 16 2012 01:33 Yoshi- wrote:
Skilling Exort on invoker is just a waste.
The normal way is to get 1 lvl of Quas at lvl 1 and then max Wex first
The most common build seen is either 3 quas early on into max wex, or 5 quas into wex.
1 Exort is not a bad build at all, as against heroes like windrunner or qop who have a huge base damage advantage on you you'll get relatively few CS early on. Better to skimp on a level of quas and get 1 exort.
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On February 16 2012 04:49 Imbajoe wrote:lol, at this point I'm pretty sure Valve only gives out deadline dates for humor's sake.
LOL
Considering they post the link to valve time in the blog,, it's not completely unreal.
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Only viable Exort build for Invoker atm is to get 4 E early and then 4 Q for the double summons IMO. Proceed to own through physical dps.
While QW is ridiculously good, he is still a flexible hero, but the glory days of meteor and other crazy stuff are gone. In lower level games any skill build may or may not work, but QW is the most reliable. I like double summons when I know the enemy is going to have high manapool and mana boots etc. but they have low armor and my team has enough slows/disables and they need raw damage. Though cold snap and ice wall still work very well with double summons of course. And getting E early also yields some other advantages like having sunstrike, and gives better lane control if you're the one harassing your enemy - when you're against some tough laner you're better off with Q and just farming with full hp.
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On February 16 2012 06:05 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 04:49 Imbajoe wrote:lol, at this point I'm pretty sure Valve only gives out deadline dates for humor's sake. LOL Considering they post the link to valve time in the blog,, it's not completely unreal.
I think people are being rather silly. Any system you take offline , do things do then try bring it back online always has issues. It's really unusual for such a thing to be on time.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1HvF8.png)
so adorable xD
mean time the thread on valve dev forum has become a place for netizens calling out 12 years old Brazilian virgins speaking russian insulting each others.. The thread is now closed and we still have no ETA for when sever coming back on... Most pro has been updating their LoL/HoN clients for the last hours and this is unacceptable...
btw, Dendi sucks at portal 2... just saying =))
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EPT
