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On August 15 2013 06:06 beef42 wrote:
I don't understand this na'vi drama. Their result was really good. Alliance were unbeatable and they got 2nd. What more do you ask for? Beating EG.eu, eh, Alliance?
So xboct is upset that his supports play like shit. Has there ever been any carry who didn't feel this?
He's upset about some of the in game decisions and communication issues and blah blah blah. If he wanted better supports AA should still be there since he's a top 5 western support.
This whole process if going to take a bit longer I feel this year since half of the attendees at TI3 contracted the plague
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Results right now do not = results a year from now.
A team who enjoys playing together will train with more passion and dedication. Over the course of a year, that can make the difference between 2nd place at TI3 and bottom 8 at TI4.
Dendi, Puppey, and XBOCT are now fairly wealthy individuals who clearly continue to enjoy the game. Did you see how much they were smiling during drafts? LoH giggling like a little girl last year during the Jugg pick was awesome. They know that this profession won't last long if they don't continue to enjoy it, and that includes enjoying the people they spend their time with.
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On August 15 2013 06:06 beef42 wrote:
I don't understand this na'vi drama. Their result was really good. Alliance were unbeatable and they got 2nd. What more do you ask for? Beating EG.eu, eh, Alliance?
So xboct is upset that his supports play like shit. Has there ever been any carry who didn't feel this?
the problem is that they didnt play like shit.
srsly, im pretty sure Xboct is the worst player on navi...
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That's basically irrelevant, though.
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I'm a long-time XBOCT hater but he played unbelievably well in the TI3 games that I saw.
Funn1k on the other hand...
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On August 15 2013 05:45 Jragon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:09 superstartran wrote:On August 15 2013 00:51 TheTuna wrote:
Booting any of the core trio who have placed Top 2 at The International for 3 years now would be nuts. People love to criticize XBOCT and claim that he is "the weakest link" but the fact is that he's a damn good player, and to lose a proven success for an unknown quantity is a bet no team should be willing to take.
I can't see Puppey being kicked as Puppey and Dendi are the face of Na'Vi to most of the team's fans. Firing either of them would be a PR disaster, especially since they have proven that they are still capable of playing the game at a very high level.
If XBOCT is smart he'll reassess the situation once he's gained some distance from the loss emotionally and realize the folly of rocking the boat based solely on emotion for a team which has earned him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Kuroky being let go I could see as he seems to be the largest cause of internal strife among the team, but firing Puppey could be absolutely disastrous for Na'Vi in terms of retaining the massive fanbase they have come to enjoy. Hvost was having such major issues with Puppey that he ignored some of his calls in-game at the tournament. I don't think Puppey survives very long on the team if Hvost can't get over it. They honestly should have lost to Tongfu had it not been for fountain hooks; Hvost clearly fucked that game up for Na'vi by ignoring Puppey's call. And Kuroky is likely to be let go simply because of language issues. Hvost had a good tournament, but still made alot of bad mistakes that a carry player shouldn't make. Last TI2 was almost a complete joke; it was like the whole team was playing around the fact that he had an extremely limited hero pool. He's expanded his hero pool alot, and he's certainly been better, but I still wouldn't consider him a top 5 carry yet. How do you know xboct was having issues with Puppey and ignoring his calls in-game?
Fountain Hook game Hvost completely ignores Puppey's call to switch lanes and avoid the tri-lane. Considering Funn1k likely is too new to speak up, and Kuroky would not disagree based on his past with Puppey, that really only leave Hvost to declare that they are staying bottom.
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On August 15 2013 06:14 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:06 beef42 wrote:
I don't understand this na'vi drama. Their result was really good. Alliance were unbeatable and they got 2nd. What more do you ask for? Beating EG.eu, eh, Alliance?
So xboct is upset that his supports play like shit. Has there ever been any carry who didn't feel this? the problem is that they didnt play like shit. srsly, im pretty sure Xboct is the worst player on navi...
Then you didn't watch any of their games in TI3. Xboct has his share of bone-headed decisions, but he really turned it on for the tournament and showed why he is the carry on the most successful Dota 2 team to date.
If you include drafting as part of Puppey's positive contribution to the team, Funn1k and Kuroky were the ones that stood out as underperformers, unfortunately. That's uncharacteristic for Funn1k, since he's a baller, and maybe had something to do with nerves, but it sounds like the problems with Kuroky may be systemic in nature.
But again, they placed second. If they are looking at it strictly from a performance standpoint, there is really no reason to change up anything. Who are they going to get that is better than what they have, unless they poach players from Alliance, which is just as unlikely?
If there is an attitude/communication problem that surfaced in TI3, then yeah, they should get that fixed soon so they can have a stable line-up for as long as possible heading into next year's tournament. But changing up your team because 2nd place isn't good enough seems too risky a path for an eSports team to take. The difference between 2nd and 1st is training and execution, not personnel.
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On August 15 2013 06:06 beef42 wrote:
I don't understand this na'vi drama. Their result was really good. Alliance were unbeatable and they got 2nd. What more do you ask for? Beating EG.eu, eh, Alliance?
So xboct is upset that his supports play like shit. Has there ever been any carry who didn't feel this?
alliance wasn't unbeatable, actually they should have lost game 3 of the final. they should have lost at least 1 game to TongFu as well. most of their games were very convincing wins, yes, but they lost 3 and also got a few wins cuz their opponents defeated themselves. he's mad cuz, you know, that was a $800k game and they got split pushed by a ck. that said, looking at each na'vi player's performance since kuroky and funnik joined, xboct is probably the least entitled to whine. it just so happened that puppey and kky screwed up at the worst possible time while he threw multiple times in lesser tourneys.
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On August 15 2013 06:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm a long-time XBOCT hater but he played unbelievably well in the TI3 games that I saw.
Funn1k on the other hand...
I don't understand all the Funn1k hate. What did he do that was so terrible?
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On August 15 2013 05:38 Klonere wrote:
My actual NA Dream team that would never happen
1 - Fear
2 - TC
3 - Brax
4 - Fluff
5 - MSS
This was the same exact team I thought of except Fear and TC swapped roles and bdiz or foggegd as the 4/5th ^_^
During the hot_bid interview with w2z and fogged though I really like the way w2s thinks about the game and how to draft but I haven't watched him play much so I don't know.
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On August 15 2013 06:26 crayhasissues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm a long-time XBOCT hater but he played unbelievably well in the TI3 games that I saw.
Funn1k on the other hand... I don't understand all the Funn1k hate. What did he do that was so terrible?
It isn't hate at all. The question when you come in 2nd in a tournament is NOT "what did he do that was so terrible?" but rather "what did he do that was so great?" and the answer is not enough. Funn1k should blow you away with his plays. He is incredibly talented, but he didn't show enough of it in the later stages of TI3. In no way does that make him a bad player, just that he didn't meet expectations this time.
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On August 15 2013 06:29 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:26 crayhasissues wrote:On August 15 2013 06:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm a long-time XBOCT hater but he played unbelievably well in the TI3 games that I saw.
Funn1k on the other hand... I don't understand all the Funn1k hate. What did he do that was so terrible? It isn't hate at all. The question when you come in 2nd in a tournament is NOT "what did he do that was so terrible?" but rather "what did he do that was so great?" and the answer is not enough. Funn1k should blow you away with his plays. He is incredibly talented, but he didn't show enough of it in the later stages of TI3. In no way does that make him a bad player, just that he didn't meet expectations this time.
I mean't more of the tone in general. I have seen a lot of people say Funn1k didn't perform well but not really give any examples to why. I think when you are on a team with as many stars as Na'Vi, you tend to lessen their plays/achievements because they aren't as spectacular in comparison. I think he's a great player and that he played fairly well. You can't have a bad offlaner and get 2nd in TI3.
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Funn1k is like Dendi. Always doing fine but if he is quiet then you just know that he isn't on his game. When he is on his game, magic is happening and it is LOUD. Not enough of that in the finals (loser bracket and grand).
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@spitwad
Sneyking off dignitas is kinda max confidence common knowledge at this point
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On August 15 2013 06:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Funn1k is like Dendi. Always doing fine but if he is quiet then you just know that he isn't on his game. When he is on his game, magic is happening and it is LOUD. Not enough of that in the finals (loser bracket and grand).
I see what you're saying. He did have some good plays, but against Alliance, its probably hard to pull of the showy stuff. I remember when I first saw him on Empire and I was just amazed by his Clinkz play.
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On August 15 2013 06:19 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:14 KalWarkov wrote:On August 15 2013 06:06 beef42 wrote:
I don't understand this na'vi drama. Their result was really good. Alliance were unbeatable and they got 2nd. What more do you ask for? Beating EG.eu, eh, Alliance?
So xboct is upset that his supports play like shit. Has there ever been any carry who didn't feel this? the problem is that they didnt play like shit. srsly, im pretty sure Xboct is the worst player on navi... Then you didn't watch any of their games in TI3. Xboct has his share of bone-headed decisions, but he really turned it on for the tournament and showed why he is the carry on the most successful Dota 2 team to date. If you include drafting as part of Puppey's positive contribution to the team, Funn1k and Kuroky were the ones that stood out as underperformers, unfortunately. That's uncharacteristic for Funn1k, since he's a baller, and maybe had something to do with nerves, but it sounds like the problems with Kuroky may be systemic in nature. But again, they placed second. If they are looking at it strictly from a performance standpoint, there is really no reason to change up anything. Who are they going to get that is better than what they have, unless they poach players from Alliance, which is just as unlikely? If there is an attitude/communication problem that surfaced in TI3, then yeah, they should get that fixed soon so they can have a stable line-up for as long as possible heading into next year's tournament. But changing up your team because 2nd place isn't good enough seems too risky a path for an eSports team to take. The difference between 2nd and 1st is training and execution, not personnel.
Don't get too carried away. XBOCT definitely was a major factor in two really important games; TF game 3 and [A] game 5. His decision to chase s4's Puck was pretty indefensible, and his issues in the trilane against TF helped put that game into almost-unwinnable territory. The fact that they did win it is much more to do with mechanics and gimmicks than his play.
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On August 15 2013 06:42 crayhasissues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Funn1k is like Dendi. Always doing fine but if he is quiet then you just know that he isn't on his game. When he is on his game, magic is happening and it is LOUD. Not enough of that in the finals (loser bracket and grand). I see what you're saying. He did have some good plays, but against Alliance, its probably hard to pull of the showy stuff. I remember when I first saw him on Empire and I was just amazed by his Clinkz play.
His Bat was singled out by BurNing as being very poor thoughout the Alliance series.
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On August 15 2013 06:43 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 06:42 crayhasissues wrote:On August 15 2013 06:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Funn1k is like Dendi. Always doing fine but if he is quiet then you just know that he isn't on his game. When he is on his game, magic is happening and it is LOUD. Not enough of that in the finals (loser bracket and grand). I see what you're saying. He did have some good plays, but against Alliance, its probably hard to pull of the showy stuff. I remember when I first saw him on Empire and I was just amazed by his Clinkz play. His Bat was singled out by BurNing as being very poor thoughout the Alliance series.
I think Funn1k was pretty underwhelming for most of the main event, but it was good enough to get by.
His play in the finals was poor though.
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On August 15 2013 05:29 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 renfree wrote:On August 15 2013 00:51 TheTuna wrote:
Booting any of the core trio who have placed Top 2 at The International for 3 years now would be nuts. People love to criticize XBOCT and claim that he is "the weakest link" but the fact is that he's a damn good player, and to lose a proven success for an unknown quantity is a bet no team should be willing to take.
I can't see Puppey being kicked as Puppey and Dendi are the face of Na'Vi to most of the team's fans. Firing either of them would be a PR disaster, especially since they have proven that they are still capable of playing the game at a very high level.
If XBOCT is smart he'll reassess the situation once he's gained some distance from the loss emotionally and realize the folly of rocking the boat based solely on emotion for a team which has earned him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Kuroky being let go I could see as he seems to be the largest cause of internal strife among the team, but firing Puppey could be absolutely disastrous for Na'Vi in terms of retaining the massive fanbase they have come to enjoy. Why don't you think it's a mutual desire to part ways?  Cause it HAS to be drama when team split... Hue hue...
What if someone told you that Puppey didn't want to play with XBOCT when they made a roster change due to different approach to the game, so this split is rather expected and mutual?
That would be ENOUGH drama for you? :D
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On August 15 2013 06:53 renfree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:29 Emnjay808 wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 renfree wrote:On August 15 2013 00:51 TheTuna wrote:
Booting any of the core trio who have placed Top 2 at The International for 3 years now would be nuts. People love to criticize XBOCT and claim that he is "the weakest link" but the fact is that he's a damn good player, and to lose a proven success for an unknown quantity is a bet no team should be willing to take.
I can't see Puppey being kicked as Puppey and Dendi are the face of Na'Vi to most of the team's fans. Firing either of them would be a PR disaster, especially since they have proven that they are still capable of playing the game at a very high level.
If XBOCT is smart he'll reassess the situation once he's gained some distance from the loss emotionally and realize the folly of rocking the boat based solely on emotion for a team which has earned him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Kuroky being let go I could see as he seems to be the largest cause of internal strife among the team, but firing Puppey could be absolutely disastrous for Na'Vi in terms of retaining the massive fanbase they have come to enjoy. Why don't you think it's a mutual desire to part ways? Cause it HAS to be drama when team split... Hue hue... What if someone told you that Puppey didn't want to play with XBOCT when they made a roster change due to different approach to the game, so this split is rather expected and mutual? That would be ENOUGH drama for you? :D
And then Puppey punched XBOCT. IN THE FACE.
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EPT
