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On September 22 2013 01:42 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +Orange Esports did not make any monetary gain or get any transfer fees from the new sponsors or TI3 This is why ACE (or KeSPA) is essential in order to make the esports market grow. The long time sponsors of Orange just lost all their assets in a blink of an eye without getting any compensation.
No way this will happen to SEA dota team. We don't even take gaming that seriously unlike South Korea.
I find it weird that Orange does not make their players to sign contract at all. It's like they are just a temporary staff or under probation somehow.
Any good logic would be to tie down those remaining players so that Orange can continue to strive at top top top level.
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The higher results you get, the more desirable agent on the market you become. You can't blame players for taking the best offer they could get, but the transfer process is needed to be strictly regulated: all participants of esports case (players, clubs, sponsors, supporting cast) should have some guarantees and obligations. Look what happened to legendary EHOME with the boycott, for example.
Reminds me the situation recently occured to Virtus Pro and NaVI in the CSGO proscene. VP's manager decided to stick to the half year old contract rules after his team demanded better conditions due to convincing showing against undisputed #1 CSGO team in the world on LAN several times, and lost all team members because of it. I highly doubt he would find the substitute team for the organization before next year comes. You simply don't face any consequences after breaking the contract in CIS countries. I imagine the situation to be similar in Malaysia.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 21 2013 04:04 Sn0_Man wrote:Interesting thoughts: If liquid is picking up waytosexy and qojqva (which seems to be the accepted wisdom), then what is the holdup? tree.hugger posted this on the 18th: Show nested quote +It's been over a month since Liquid`Dota last played a game. As has been heavily rumored, there are changes incoming, just as there are for almost every other team in the scene. Will there be an official announcement soon? Don't count on it. While we'd love just as much as anyone to come out with a big release and team that's ready to conquer the world, a number of issues make it a bit difficult to resolve things so cleanly.
What we can say is that Liquid`Dota will be in action one week from now in the WePlay Dota 2 League. We'll most likely be using certain players as standins, and fans are actively encouraged to read as much as possible into this. We can also say that we're extremely confident that the form we take after the Great TI3 Shuffle will be even better than the team that took three major championships, two minor cups, and Top 8 at TI3. TL;DR: They have their team, and will play with it, but it isn't and wont be official. The question then becomes, why not? Dignitas has demonstrated a willingness to have other organizations buy-out their players contracts (RS.int and now EG). One would assume they wouldn't be hard-balling liquid while working with the other 2. That means that wayto shouldn't be having any issues signing with liquid. mouz (who currently hold qojqva's contract as far as I can tell), could hypothetically be more difficult. Especially given the situation with Fata who is playing with the team we affectionately refer to as FlipsideMouzQuantic. Given how that team hasn't really fallen under any specific sponsor yet, it seems like mouz haven't just given up on their players. Yet Black^ is off to china and has signed with LGD.int (unless I've been gravely misled). So the organization is clearly willing to let players go in some circumstances, and one would assume that liquid has the contacts and wherewithal to make it happen. So then, What gives? I don't know  . Anybody got some thoughts? Bumblebee said (yesterday) that "today we made crucial progress" but nothing else. Given that it came fairly shortly before the EG announcement I'm wondering if it doesn't have something to do with Dignitas negotiations. However, if that is solved, what remains?
In the other case with dignitas and RS.int it was a player under contract going one way. Liquid's situation with dignitas is different with Korok most likely going to dignitas in more of a trade type transaction. With EG even it wasn't indicated to be a trade. Bdiz was released and monetary considerations sent dig's way. With a trade there are more complicated issues. One team may want cash in addition and the other team may want just a straight up swap. Whatever the problem, dignitas really needs Korok on this team to be watchable/entertaining, as the rest of the roster (as it currently is, and I realize it's not set), doesn't appear capable of winning tourneys or even competing at a high level consistently. Both teams have a vested interest in resolving the problems sooner rather than later so it'll get done.
With Mouz it's probably more about the fact that the former team is in like 4 places right now but who knows
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damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards
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On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards
i wish clueless ppl would clueless around so much
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On September 22 2013 07:41 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards i wish clueless ppl would clueless around so much
How is he being clueless? Wayto + Qojqva is a downgrade from Korok.
Personalities didn't mesh, they got rid of him. Doesn't change the fact that Korok is a better player.
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On September 22 2013 07:42 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:41 teddyoojo wrote:On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards i wish clueless ppl would clueless around so much How is he being clueless? Wayto + Qojqva is a downgrade from Korok. Personalities didn't mesh, they got rid of him. Doesn't change the fact that Korok is a better player.
I think qojqva is an atleast equal, if not better player then Korok tbh. He played on 3G internet for a long time and still managed to perform on a pretty high level and was doing great at TI3 and in mouz in general - the problem just was that the mouz team had pretty big internal problems (according to Fata).
I think WTS and qojqva will make Liquid an even better team, and according to the word on the street the new Liquid roster is doing better than before in scrims already.
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On September 22 2013 07:42 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:41 teddyoojo wrote:On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards i wish clueless ppl would clueless around so much How is he being clueless? Wayto + Qojqva is a downgrade from Korok. Personalities didn't mesh, they got rid of him. Doesn't change the fact that Korok is a better player.
for one thing Korok and wayto play 2 completely different roles and if u were to actually read the thread u will figure out how this will make the team only stronger they have already had great success in scrims and they can really only go up from here.
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On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards
>swapping mike for wayto
>swapping Korok for Qoj
sorry, both of those are upgrades imo, Qoj is probably one of the best offlaners in the world, i think he's bulldog good
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On September 22 2013 07:55 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards >swapping mike for wayto >swapping Korok for Qoj sorry, both of those are upgrades imo, Qoj is probably one of the best offlaners in the world, i think he's bulldog good
And really dedicated and hardworking
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On September 22 2013 07:57 URLateral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:55 Shaella wrote:On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards >swapping mike for wayto >swapping Korok for Qoj sorry, both of those are upgrades imo, Qoj is probably one of the best offlaners in the world, i think he's bulldog good And really dedicated and hardworking
yeah, I should probably edit my post to potential to be bulldog good
Qoj works hard and is the biggest upcoming player in the whole western scene in my opinion (I guess along w/ the other KP guys)
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I guess idealism trumps reality.
Suddenly Qojqva > Korok.
Whatever it takes for the fanboys to keep supporting their team I suppose.
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On September 22 2013 08:00 ch33psh33p wrote:
I guess idealism trumps reality.
Suddenly Qojqva > Korok.
Whatever it takes for the fanboys to keep supporting their team I suppose.
Suddenly? I think Qoj was by far the best player on Mouz.
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On September 22 2013 07:42 ch33psh33p wrote:
How is he being clueless? Wayto + Qojqva is a downgrade from Korok.
Personalities didn't mesh, they got rid of him. Doesn't change the fact that Korok is a better player.
It's Korok+ixmike for Wayto+Qojqva ...
Liquid will be replacing an unmotivated player that played the 5 role exclusively with an enthousiastic 4-5 role player. That looks like a pretty big win to me. Qojqva is still really young and already played offlane on the highest or close to the highest level. He was the one to actually carry Mouz in more than a few games. Bulba will be returning his natural role which is mid.
Basically everyone will mainly be playing the roles they prefer now, instead of a mid player forced to play offlane, and two carry players with very different styles alternating between mid and carry.
Even if qojqva isn't able to get 1v5 rampages with storm spirit he may still be the better player for Liquid.
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On September 22 2013 08:07 AwfuL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:42 ch33psh33p wrote:
How is he being clueless? Wayto + Qojqva is a downgrade from Korok.
Personalities didn't mesh, they got rid of him. Doesn't change the fact that Korok is a better player. It's Korok+ixmike for Wayto+Qojqva ... Liquid will be replacing an unmotivated player that played the 5 role exclusively with an enthousiastic 4-5 role player. That looks like a pretty big win to me. Qojqva is still really young and already played offlane on the highest or close to the highest level. He was the one to actually carry Mouz in more than a few games. Bulba will be returning his natural role which is mid. Basically everyone will mainly be playing the roles they prefer now, instead of a mid player forced to play offlane, and two carry players with very different styles alternating between mid and carry. Even if qojqva isn't able to get 1v5 rampages with storm spirit he may still be the better player for Liquid.
Bulba seems so natural in the offlane. It'll be fun to see what he can do with mid.
The swappable positions in Liquid did seem to be one of their strengths, though. They could very easily change their playstyle for a game just by changing which lanes their three solos went to. Korok mid, Korok safelane tri, Korok agg tri, and Korok safelane solo all looked very different.
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On September 22 2013 07:55 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards >swapping mike for wayto >swapping Korok for Qoj sorry, both of those are upgrades imo, Qoj is probably one of the best offlaners in the world, i think he's bulldog good
Qojva is good, but supports determine the flow of a game and wayto brings about as much or less than what mike did. If they were so desperate to replace mike then they should of gone hunting for fresh blood not go fishing in a stagnant pond.
I don't think Qojva fits with TL though, just because he's an excellent player doesn't mean he will be able to deliver the same if Liquid can't afford him the same opportunities in game mouz was able to.
edit: also I was entirely complaining about wayto in my post... overall he's just really bad and at best he's a warm body.
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On September 22 2013 08:27 Dr. Von Derful wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:55 Shaella wrote:On September 22 2013 07:35 Dr. Von Derful wrote:damn shame, other teams move forward and liquid goes backwards >swapping mike for wayto >swapping Korok for Qoj sorry, both of those are upgrades imo, Qoj is probably one of the best offlaners in the world, i think he's bulldog good Qojva is good, but supports determine the flow of a game and wayto brings about as much or less than what mike did. If they were so desperate to replace mike then they should of gone hunting for fresh blood not go fishing in a stagnant pond. I don't think Qojva fits with TL though, just because he's an excellent player doesn't mean he will be able to deliver the same if Liquid can't afford him the same opportunities in game mouz was able to. edit: also I was entirely complaining about wayto in my post... overall he's just really bad and at best he's a warm body.
u serious?? wayto over mike is a HUGE upgrade, and I like mike. But Wayto is arguably the best north american support. And if he is as dedicated as Nazgul said (and Nazgul is one of the smartest people in esports) then thats all the more reason to support this decision, no pun intended.
Korok for Qojv is a push; but Qojv gives Liquid something they never had before: a Natures Prophet player. Remember throughout TI3, whenever Mouz played agame with Qojv on NP, the casters were all like "Keep an eye out for Courier snipes, Qojv is the best at it" - This is what the new dota meta needs, splitpushing and misdirection, which is why Alliance won. Add in finally a top-notch Chen player like Alliance uses to still have the brute force to stop pushes (or push) while NP is splitpushing, and you can finally pull off the current meta. Mike and korok handicapped Liquid from doing that before, due to their limited hero pool (well, Bulba not playing NP and if FLUFF took chen, mike couldn take complimentary heros like Naga)
I still hope Bulba plays clockwork offlane at times though when its drafted. Qojv can 3 for everything else, but Bulba should offlane clockwork, as hes the best in the world at it.
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Saying Bulba is the best Clockwerk in the world is a very strong statement. He's good at the hero, no two ways about it. But there's a lot of stiff competition for best Clock.
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I think you can argue its true; afterall bulba is the one who re-introduced clockwork into the current meta back in February.. No one was using clock at all, then Liquid use it like 4-5 times in one or two weeks, and suddenly everyone starts using it. Even China began using it around June (thank god, watching the same 10 heroes every game from China games was annoying)
And at TI3, Bulba showed again his clockwork performance.
If we talk about Bulldog being the most known Lone druid/NP player, then I think Bulba deserves that kind of praise for his clockwork. And TC for his Razor.
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EPT
