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TI3 Hero Profile: Naga Siren

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-10 12:43:59
September 07 2013 02:50 GMT
#1

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TI3 Hero Profile: Naga Siren





by phantasmal



[image loading]


For the second year in a row, Naga Siren was a major player in the International metagame, but this year she shook things up as a support. Of the 43 games in which Naga Siren was picked, she was only played as a farming core in 6. Her record overall was 24-19 (.558); her record as a carry was 1-5 (.167).

[image loading]


You might also notice that unlike Outworld Devourer, Naga Siren’s usage came mostly out of two teams: Alliance and Orange who came in 1st and 3rd place respectively. Together they combined for just under half of her total usage. In addition to that, Na`Vi’s two uses of support Naga were, in part, an attempt to deny Orange the hero, and in the seven games Na`Vi played against Alliance, Naga was either selected by Alliance with their first pick or banned in the first round by Na`Vi in every single game.

So what has driven this shift from carry to support? In part it was the base damage nerf she received in 6.75. Even before that she was never especially great as a hard carry, but losing 12 damage at level one put even more of a damper on her carry potential. But what teams have realized is that carry potential was never what made Naga dominant in the first place; it was her abilities. These abilities are sufficiently potent from the support position, and they arguably fit better into an environment full of multi-core lineups built around mid-game carries.

Instead of looking at individual games, what I want to do with Naga is compare her ability set to the the former king of the teamfight ult supports, Tidehunter. It’s my opinion that in the current state of Dota, support Naga Siren straight up obsoletes support Tidehunter. She’s the safer pick during laning, and for the teams willing to practice with her and get creative, she blows Tidehunter away when it comes to controlling teamfights between multi-core lineups. But for now, let’s begin with lane viability.

Tidehunter’s contribution in lane revolves around Gush, a slow, armor debuff, and damaging nuke. Naga Siren basically brings largely the same toolset, just split between Riptide and Ensnare. There are some downsides to having it split between two skills, primarily that you have to choose which one to max and greater mana costs to perform the full combo, but Naga also sees some benefits. Because Naga’s debuffs are separate, the armor debuff on Riptide lasts longer and can affect multiple targets, potentially allowing her team the ability to swap targets while retaining the armor debuff in an early trilane vs trilane engagement. As for mana management, the benefit Naga sees is that while her complete combo is more expensive, if she only needs Ensnare for disengagement, she’s paying a fraction of the mana that Tidehunter would have to spend on a Gush (75 vs 120).

Moving on to base stats, you would think Tidehunter would be the tankier of the two, but a lot of his tanky reputation is tied up in his Kraken’s Shell passive that you won’t be able to max until very late in the game as a support. In terms of base HP, Tidehunter only has the advantage by 19 at level 1. This is more than offset by the fact that Naga is tied with Bounty Hunter for highest starting armor in the game at 5.94, nearly doubling Tidehunter’s 3.1. She also tied with Pugna for 3rd highest base movespeed in the game at 320. To be fair, Tidehunter’s no slouch at 310, but that tiny advantage could be a huge deal for a melee support in a trilane vs trilane situation.

Finally, we need to talk about movement impairment. Gush isn’t bad, but it’s only a slow. Heroes like Dark Seer or Anti-Mage are far more threatened by Ensnare’s complete shutdown of movement and blinks. Aside from that, Ensnare also breaks channeling, removes invisibility for the duration, scales up to 5 second in duration, and pierces magic immunity. Keep that last point in mind, because it will be coming up again.

Overall, support Naga’s laning is pretty good. It’s certainly not Visage good, but she absolutely holds her own, even in a trilane vs trilane. But laning is only half the story, and probably the less important half. Where Naga really begins to outpace Tidehunter is the mid to late game, and it mostly revolves around creative usage of her ultimate, Song of the Siren.

Tidehunter’s value to a team is extremely dependent on his ultimate, and like a lot of things in the game, this value diminishes as the opposing team builds more Black King Bars. Seeing three on a team in the environment of TI3 isn’t unheard of. Take for instance the Radiant lineup in iG vs Liquid. If you’re a Tidehunter on the Liquid side, you’re facing BKBs on the three most important members of iG. Their Keeper of the Light doesn’t have one, but he’s off in the back channeling horses. Meanwhile, their Nyx Assassin is using Vendetta to threaten your back lines on the opposite side of the teamfight. Hitting a meaningful Ravage is tough, and even tougher when you know that there’s a good chance that BKB Batrider will be targeting you in an effort to make sure Ravage never even goes off.

But Naga Siren does not care. She wants you to pop your BKB, because the moment you do her song will isolate you from your teammates for seven seconds, and on top of that she will ensnare you for five. She doesn’t care if your team splits up, because Song has a larger radius, is instantaneous, and cannot be interrupted. Forget Beastmaster and Bane, because Naga Siren is the biggest BKB counter in the hero pool. Well ok, that’s overstating things because Beastmaster and Bane both did quite well at TI3. But Naga requires less of a laning investment than Beastmaster and does not have the channeling vulnerability of Bane, and both of those are pretty significant downsides.

And the basic teamfight utility of Song of the Siren goes beyond punishing BKB usage; it's also extremely good at outright canceling pesky initiation ults. If the enemy team is reliant on Beastmaster's Roar or Batrider's Lasso to win a teamfight around an important objective, like a Barracks or Roshan, Naga can simply wait in the back and completely nullify either ultimate. Spectre is another example of a hero whose ultimate initiation can be completely shut down by effective Song of the Siren use. And then of course there is Wisp. Alliance put a lot of stock in Naga as a Wisp counter, but we'll be getting to that in a later article.

There’s more that could be said about the Tidehunter vs Naga comparison, but her total mastery of teamfights dwarfs everything else in importance. For a BKB-rushing Alchemist or a Haunt-dependent Spectre, Song of the Siren simply causes them problems in ways few other ultimates can match. Her perceived value on the parts of Alliance and Orange (and her perceived threat on the part of Na`Vi) was completely justified, so don’t be surprised to see more teams adopt her as a mainstay in the near future, provided of course that she doesn’t see major changes in the next patch.



CREDITS
Writers: phantasmal
Gfx: riptide, Heyoka
Editors: TheEmulator
Photography and art via Valve and R1CH

TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
September 06 2013 19:38 GMT
#2
I like Naga support.
Administrator
GeneralStan
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States4789 Posts
September 06 2013 19:40 GMT
#3
It's a very nice write up . The tide to naga comparisons are inevitable bewcuase they are both aquatic :D

I think she's a fine support uses urn well, but tide's ult is still better
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
September 06 2013 19:42 GMT
#4
Nice Writeup phantasmal.

Looking forward to more of these and why Morphling is the weakest hero in the pool.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
September 06 2013 19:44 GMT
#5
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
September 06 2013 19:46 GMT
#6
no love for dark seer most imba champion in game
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 06 2013 19:48 GMT
#7
An underrated part of Naga is her ability to scout almost for free in the later parts of the game with illusions. It is a great, low cost way to get that much needed information without having to use a ward or put a hero at risk. And in the later parts of the game, when dewarding is more common, it adds a lot of stability to the team and their ability to respond.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
andyrau
Profile Joined December 2010
13015 Posts
September 06 2013 19:48 GMT
#8
but we'll be getting to that in a later article.

more similar articles in the near future
can't wait!
"Zai is legitimately not as good as bulba." | kaipi ti3 champions
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
September 06 2013 19:50 GMT
#9
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.
Administrator
SilverStar
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden18511 Posts
September 06 2013 19:51 GMT
#10
You linked your reddit article to your first comment.
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
September 06 2013 19:52 GMT
#11
On September 07 2013 04:51 SilverStar wrote:
You linked your reddit article to your first comment.

Thank you for pointing that out. I actually have no idea how that occured, rofl.
Administrator
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
September 06 2013 19:54 GMT
#12
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
September 06 2013 19:56 GMT
#13
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?

Yes. Although for our upcoming Alliance feature we will be expanding a bit on this Naga Profile, specifically EGM's use of her.
Administrator
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-06 20:01:24
September 06 2013 20:00 GMT
#14
My comment would be that tidehunter represents a LOT more damage in the early/midgame and as such can be an effective ganker in situations where naga mostly can't (since naga's riptide damage is lower than anchor smash at high levels and thats ignoring the damage on gush + ult). Naga's harder disable and the incredible level 1 damage on riptide (combined with its AoE -armor) make her a far better laning support though (and you covered most of the late-game applications). Obviously the TI3 "meta" favoured the early/late combination over the midgame monster.

The amount of heroes that we saw hard-rushing BKB at TI3 despite IceFrog's recent nerfs to it's charge system and sellability also endear naga.

PS: song has a distinct cast animation so while it is probably harder to respond to than ravage in terms of reflexive BKB usage, it is definitely not immune to that "counter". Obviously it interacts with BKB far better than ravage regardless.

PPS: It might not have hurt to mention how strong naga is around roshan, one of the few heroes who can contest heroes like batrider both defensively and offensively in the pit. Naga is a true "King (queen?) of Roshan".
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
September 06 2013 20:10 GMT
#15
Pro players really found a niche for this hero as a support. Naga is a sexy support.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Elizar
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany431 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-06 20:24:05
September 06 2013 20:16 GMT
#16
Don´t wanna be a smart-ass, but if you delete the "%" in your table it would actually get your numbers right.

Edit: Now that I have read the article: Well done, good read
Noya
Profile Joined April 2013
Uruguay11223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-06 20:25:39
September 06 2013 20:24 GMT
#17
Just a nitpick comment, Song of the Siren can be "interrumpted" by Clock's Battery Assault (with Naga's 0.65 / 0.7 animation she won't ever be able to cast it if caught on cogs)

Awesome article, I would love one similar about the Support Abaddon trend that is coming (right now is First Pick/First Ban material in Starladder).
Crissaegrim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
2947 Posts
September 06 2013 20:37 GMT
#18
Poor tide. Shat on by almost any other hero these days.
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
September 06 2013 20:43 GMT
#19
Excellently written. Armor is one of the things I'm expecting to see naga lose in the next patch, for the reasons you mentioned.
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
September 06 2013 20:59 GMT
#20
On September 07 2013 05:16 Elizar wrote:
Don´t wanna be a smart-ass, but if you delete the "%" in your table it would actually get your numbers right.


datDota automates to that, and while I don't want to put words in his mouth, my feeling is that while it's technically inaccurate, it follows the standards often seen in sports coverage such as http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/nfl/standings which uses the ratio form of the number but labels the column as PCT. 'PCT' or 'Win %' is also nice because it describes the column without using as many letters as anything involving ratio. This is important to me because I often have limited horizontal space to work with.
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
September 06 2013 21:01 GMT
#21
Wow that focus mode is cool, since when do you have that in articles?
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
September 06 2013 21:05 GMT
#22
Excellent article on an excellent hero. Really hope she doesn't get major nerfs, as I'm pretty pumped to see a once-dominant hero return after some absolutely crippling nerfs.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
phantasmal
Profile Joined June 2013
276 Posts
September 06 2013 21:16 GMT
#23
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?


I intend to write a third profile, though it might be finished too late to be included in this stretch of coverage. If TL has moved on to different things at that point, it'll still be available on dotametrics.wordpress.com and announced on Twitter (@dotametrics).

For now though, Emu's right that this isn't the last you'll hear of Naga here, and yes, Roshan's going to figure in quite prominently.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
September 06 2013 21:38 GMT
#24
Naga Siren best boner kill in the game !
salito
Profile Joined May 2010
1647 Posts
September 06 2013 21:41 GMT
#25
Well written, thanks.
Nature moves in the shortest way possible.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
September 06 2013 21:45 GMT
#26
Nice article, really great for those of us who know jack shit about the reasons heroes are pick and just know that 'they're good'.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-06 22:03:23
September 06 2013 22:03 GMT
#27
On September 07 2013 06:01 Darkren wrote:
Wow that focus mode is cool, since when do you have that in articles?

It was implemented late last year for some BW articles ( thanks to Hawaiianpig). And we have been using it in every Dota 2 article since January of this year.
Administrator
Kishin2
Profile Joined May 2011
United States7534 Posts
September 06 2013 22:22 GMT
#28
Totally called that support naga would be a thing. Restoring cd on rip tide helped though. Still no blink dagger support naga is disappointing though.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
September 07 2013 01:03 GMT
#29
Great analysis. I would have expected most teams to know how to counter naga by now. Maybe her ensnare is just too overpowered though.
Brood War loyalist
Nocticate
Profile Joined May 2013
Vatican City State2902 Posts
September 07 2013 01:18 GMT
#30
On September 07 2013 04:56 TheEmulator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?

Yes. Although for our upcoming Alliance feature we will be expanding a bit on this Naga Profile, specifically EGM's use of her.

does that coincide with EGM also finding a use for Heaven's Halberd?
Chairman Mao tells us imperialist Dota is a paper tiger
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
September 07 2013 01:20 GMT
#31
On September 07 2013 10:18 Nocticate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 04:56 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?

Yes. Although for our upcoming Alliance feature we will be expanding a bit on this Naga Profile, specifically EGM's use of her.

does that coincide with EGM also finding a use for Heaven's Halberd?

Heaven's Halberd was never really a useless item, it just isn't really a comfortable item to build on a lot of heroes. It has always been a strong item though.
Nocticate
Profile Joined May 2013
Vatican City State2902 Posts
September 07 2013 01:55 GMT
#32
On September 07 2013 10:20 SKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 10:18 Nocticate wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:56 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?

Yes. Although for our upcoming Alliance feature we will be expanding a bit on this Naga Profile, specifically EGM's use of her.

does that coincide with EGM also finding a use for Heaven's Halberd?

Heaven's Halberd was never really a useless item, it just isn't really a comfortable item to build on a lot of heroes. It has always been a strong item though.

useless is not mutually exclusive with powerful. it had virtually no use because in just about every situation another item was better but the niche for it did technically exist.
Chairman Mao tells us imperialist Dota is a paper tiger
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-07 02:04:51
September 07 2013 02:02 GMT
#33
On September 07 2013 10:55 Nocticate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 10:20 SKC wrote:
On September 07 2013 10:18 Nocticate wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:56 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?

Yes. Although for our upcoming Alliance feature we will be expanding a bit on this Naga Profile, specifically EGM's use of her.

does that coincide with EGM also finding a use for Heaven's Halberd?

Heaven's Halberd was never really a useless item, it just isn't really a comfortable item to build on a lot of heroes. It has always been a strong item though.

useless is not mutually exclusive with powerful. it had virtually no use because in just about every situation another item was better but the niche for it did technically exist.

It always had a few uses for heroes such as DK, maybe clock. Not many heroes are suited for it, but definatelly not useless.
In TI3, for example, Naga was responsible for 8 out of 26 times the item was built. A very relevant number, but not exactly dominant.
xAdra
Profile Joined July 2012
Singapore1858 Posts
September 07 2013 05:48 GMT
#34
On September 07 2013 10:20 SKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2013 10:18 Nocticate wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:56 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:54 trinxified wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:50 TheEmulator wrote:
On September 07 2013 04:44 trinxified wrote:
How many Hero Profiles have we had lately? I hope I didn't miss one. I think it's this one and the OD right?

Yeah, we have done more, but for TI3 post coverage I think that is all. We have one final post TI3 two part series coming soon to you guys as well, focusing on Alliance during TI3.


Yeah I meant TI3 profiles only. Just two?

Yes. Although for our upcoming Alliance feature we will be expanding a bit on this Naga Profile, specifically EGM's use of her.

does that coincide with EGM also finding a use for Heaven's Halberd?

Heaven's Halberd was never really a useless item, it just isn't really a comfortable item to build on a lot of heroes. It has always been a strong item though.

D'you guys think Heaven's Halberd will become super popular once Legion Commander is released? I mean, he (/she?) kinda did rely on it to win duels reliably in dota 1 iirc.
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
September 07 2013 05:55 GMT
#35
I called for the naga resurgence prior to TI3, she made me proud. She is so much more effective in position 4 to initiate and counter initiate. Riptide helps with pushing too. Overall, excellent utility hero when used right.
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
riptide
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
5673 Posts
September 07 2013 06:08 GMT
#36
That's true. I do help with pushing lanes.
AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
wairai
Profile Joined May 2012
Malaysia1000 Posts
September 07 2013 06:32 GMT
#37
On September 07 2013 05:37 Crissaegrim wrote:
Poor tide. Shat on by almost any other hero these days.


In dota 1 you can still combo song + ravage and still stun the hero. Source : Yango (master of doto universe)
Really Tide is going to be Tide. He just out of meta right now since laning for Tide is to expensive for mid solo or offlaner
but too slow for a position 4.

Yungin' Leanin' with Pourple Drink
MrKn4rz
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany2153 Posts
September 07 2013 09:43 GMT
#38
On September 07 2013 04:48 andyrau wrote:
Show nested quote +
but we'll be getting to that in a later article.

more similar articles in the near future
can't wait!

"We don't take kindly to folks who don't take kindly around here..."
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
September 07 2013 09:47 GMT
#39
Dat EGM Naga! I think Naga is a great support especially for greedy supports since they can get some items on her to help in the late game.
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
phantomlancer23
Profile Joined May 2013
730 Posts
September 07 2013 10:24 GMT
#40
Very nice i m looking forward for the naga vs wisp analysis.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
September 07 2013 20:13 GMT
#41
Naga's mana costs are astoundingly low, which lets her make heavy use of her abilities without spending deep on mana or mana regen. Riptide and Mirror Image are very strong with just one point.
My strategy is to fork people.
Yoshi~
Profile Joined October 2011
New Zealand35 Posts
September 08 2013 11:19 GMT
#42
On September 07 2013 05:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
My comment would be that tidehunter represents a LOT more damage in the early/midgame and as such can be an effective ganker in situations where naga mostly can't (since naga's riptide damage is lower than anchor smash at high levels and thats ignoring the damage on gush + ult). Naga's harder disable and the incredible level 1 damage on riptide (combined with its AoE -armor) make her a far better laning support though (and you covered most of the late-game applications). Obviously the TI3 "meta" favoured the early/late combination over the midgame monster.

The amount of heroes that we saw hard-rushing BKB at TI3 despite IceFrog's recent nerfs to it's charge system and sellability also endear naga.

PS: song has a distinct cast animation so while it is probably harder to respond to than ravage in terms of reflexive BKB usage, it is definitely not immune to that "counter". Obviously it interacts with BKB far better than ravage regardless.

PPS: It might not have hurt to mention how strong naga is around roshan, one of the few heroes who can contest heroes like batrider both defensively and offensively in the pit. Naga is a true "King (queen?) of Roshan".


I disagree with a lot of this post:

1. In late-game Anchor Smash doesn't do more than Riptide, because Anchor Smash is physical damage.
2. Naga is better than Tide for ganking, because Net -> Riptide >>> Gush -> Anchor Smash. This is especially true when locking down pesky heroes like Anti-Mage, Puck, QoP, Dark Seer.
3. Riptide has a lot more coverage, thanks to illusions, which you can't ignore when you compare the damage output of the heroes, you're right in that neither Net or Song don't deal any damage.
4. You can't BKB in reaction to Song cast animation. It's (almost) physically impossible to react to a 0.65s cast time. You have to anticipate it and turn BKB on beforehand (e.g. If you see Naga walking forward for it). The reason you can BKB-react for Ravage is because unlike Song, Ravage's spikes take time to reach you. If Tide Blinks right in your face and pops Ravage, you probably can't BKB-react.
superstartran
Profile Joined March 2010
United States4013 Posts
September 08 2013 14:30 GMT
#43
I think a big miss on this article is that Naga Siren allows teams to engage and disengage on their terms rather than their opponents. This is critically shown multiple times by Alliance throughout the entire tournament.
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28089 Posts
September 08 2013 21:03 GMT
#44
On September 08 2013 23:30 superstartran wrote:
I think a big miss on this article is that Naga Siren allows teams to engage and disengage on their terms rather than their opponents. This is critically shown multiple times by Alliance throughout the entire tournament.

We still have an article coming about EGM's use of Naga at TI3. Certain points are left out for a reason.
Administrator
Sharkey
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
668 Posts
September 09 2013 05:29 GMT
#45
Do you know how many games were played at TI3? How many times did Naga get banned?
If anyone has any serious prayer requests please PM me. Thx.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34491 Posts
September 09 2013 05:50 GMT
#46
On September 09 2013 14:29 Sharkey wrote:
Do you know how many games were played at TI3? How many times did Naga get banned?

You'll find out soon.
Moderator
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2143 Posts
September 09 2013 09:02 GMT
#47
Interesting. Thank you for this!
kuka
Profile Joined September 2013
42 Posts
September 09 2013 09:56 GMT
#48
Very nice article, tried using support Naga in PUBduring the TI3, I've gotten a lot of rage for that. next time somebody rages if i go support Naga, I'll send them to read this article
sc14s
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5052 Posts
September 09 2013 10:22 GMT
#49
On September 07 2013 04:38 TheEmulator wrote:
I like Naga support.

My sentiments exactly,
Though what i really want to see is some veno .. sees so little play nowadays t.t

Awesome write up, keep em coming, i shall keep devouring
josemb40
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Peru611 Posts
September 09 2013 16:05 GMT
#50
yep, nice article
wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
September 09 2013 16:15 GMT
#51
Fascinating. Thank you for the article. Love this kind of stuff!
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
damanism
Profile Joined January 2013
United States2 Posts
September 09 2013 16:38 GMT
#52
Sooo... A couple of winning teams happened to have had naga siren on as a port of the make up? There also happens to be a "drastic" 0.622" win percentage as well! wow, totally knews worthy!

Needless to say, the title is maybe just a smidge misleading.
stay classy, planet earth!
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 09 2013 16:41 GMT
#53
On September 10 2013 01:38 damanism wrote:
Sooo... A couple of winning teams happened to have had naga siren on as a port of the make up? There also happens to be a "drastic" 0.622" win percentage as well! wow, totally knews worthy!

Needless to say, the title is maybe just a smidge misleading.

"TI3 Hero Profile: Naga Siren" what a misleading title.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
September 09 2013 19:25 GMT
#54
Another sweet article, thanks for the read :O definitely interesting how naga siren's role changed
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
September 09 2013 20:39 GMT
#55
I started playing naga in pub games after reading this article and I got impressed on how good she is as support, cause she will usually end like a strong semi-carry and her ult is gaming changing if you know when to use it. also, she is one of the funniest heroes to play with.
thanks for the article, waiting for more
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Elucidate
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
205 Posts
September 09 2013 22:14 GMT
#56
She's an interesting hero certainly, but she also feels a bit...over-dependent on synergy.
Welcome to Aslan's Country. Sanctuary Cat on DotA 2.
Voronoff
Profile Joined May 2010
United States302 Posts
September 10 2013 05:06 GMT
#57
This article seems to miss the importance of Mirror Image for the support role. It's good vision and can help mislead the opponents (both of which can be seen in Alliance's games), and helps with both jungling and disrupting jungling.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
September 10 2013 05:32 GMT
#58
On September 10 2013 07:14 Elucidate wrote:
She's an interesting hero certainly, but she also feels a bit...over-dependent on synergy.

Really? I find she's pretty good at operating alone.
My strategy is to fork people.
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