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On April 26 2014 12:44 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 12:31 Kuroeeah wrote:
And some of these changes strikes me as something coming straight out of League of Legends. Venge and Brew changes are hilarious. Are you really implying Lina is broken now with the upgrade? It's not even that good of an item for her. RP chain frost didn't really get improved, it was insane even before the patch.
He is kinda right I guess, if I am playing Lina and a Bkb carry is really giving trouble (or I can predict the person to buy bkb) I can just aim for aghs (not difficult with Lina's flash farm abilities) and just zap the guy whenever he pops his bkb. The almighty magic-immune stick is really losing a lot of sheen with so many things blasting right through it
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On April 26 2014 12:51 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 12:44 OutlaW- wrote:On April 26 2014 12:31 Kuroeeah wrote:
And some of these changes strikes me as something coming straight out of League of Legends. Venge and Brew changes are hilarious. Are you really implying Lina is broken now with the upgrade? It's not even that good of an item for her. RP chain frost didn't really get improved, it was insane even before the patch. He is kinda right I guess, if I am playing Lina and a Bkb carry is really giving trouble (or I can predict the person to buy bkb) I can just aim for aghs (not difficult with Lina's flash farm abilities) and just zap the guy whenever he pops his bkb. The almighty magic-immune stick is really losing a lot of sheen with so many things blasting right through it
As always with Lina, even after this patch, I'd rather have a Lion on my team every time.
Unless we're talking about pubs. I actually really like playing Lina, but being able to deal 600-800 damage someone who buys BKB will probably not make her more useful than Lion. You can always blink hex finger, too.
I'm not saying it's a bad change or anything, just that it doesn't suddenly make her overpowered.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
whatever will die from RP chainfrost would have died before from RP chainfrost, there wont be a change there
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On April 26 2014 12:48 Blackfeather wrote:
"Mirror Image now resets the current attack and spell targeting priority" am i the only one who cant really make sense of this? Is this targeted against spells that you use before the mirror image and still hunt down the original one?
Yay, buff to ursas roshing ability. I also needed more tusks and husks and in my games, love the two. /sarcasm
Most other changes are okay. Qop is sick. Kotl/lich aghs might be almost as desirable as AAs. Lich needs a good setup-hero though. I like the pa and void buffs. I think that the blur thing wont change much, everybody gets mkb against her anyways. I feel that some buffs could have been bigger, e.g. sven, tide, drow, lina, brood, am and bloodstone. Quite surprised that darkseer didnt see any change at all, i have seen him only loose in this patch, i feel it's time for a vacuum buff for a change.
this is how it worked on W3
and there was a lot of wodota about it, it is a fun mechanic (even though I almost never build manta or play image heroes)
It feels like naga still strong as before, I would like to see a movespeed nerf too
Also, a lot of changes that doesn't change anything like SD agha, seriously? It is cool, it is two purges, but it is 4200 gold, I don't get the point.
It feels weird, just small changes besides from aghanins e venge doesn't feels like a dota patch. Anyways, I think I liked, I hope it is enough to change the must picks at least.
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queen of pain might actually be playable again ye that range buff will be really nice
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On April 26 2014 12:50 kaleidoscope wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2014 12:44 OutlaW- wrote:
Are you really implying Lina is broken now with the upgrade? It's not even that good of an item for her.
RP chain frost didn't really get improved, it was insane even before the patch. i'm just saying that the metagame might change alot for picks with lina, since you cant have a 4Protect1 if your carry is just gonna die so much more easily.. even a bkb is not gonna help your carry in survival
Nah, lina is still terrible vs most carries. To get an early aghs would mean that either she gets farm priority or plays mid. Nobody really wants to put her mid in the time of farming mids, so that means that she has a 35 min aghs on average. So you invest 4k gold into an overall mediocre hero to zipp half hp of an enemy carry during bkb. I really dont see why i shouldnt just get a sheep stick instead and have a pick that isnt lina. I dont think she will see any play at all tbh.
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Obviously we get some nerfs to the op as fuck heroes but overall its a very moderate which should not change too much.
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Is Lina going to finally be the answer to BKB's every game? Is this the reason why Envy stopped going the item in his Luna? Why go Bane when you now have Lina?
You guys really need to chill out on stuff like this.
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United States47024 Posts
If you ever actually got the farm for an Agha on Lina, one-shotting a support before they use any spells/items is in all likelihood more effective than hitting a BKB carry for a chunk of their HP anyway.
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On April 26 2014 12:53 OutlaW- wrote:
As always with Lina, even after this patch, I'd rather have a Lion on my team every time.
Unless we're talking about pubs. I actually really like playing Lina, but being able to deal 600-800 damage someone who buys BKB will probably not make her more useful than Lion. You can always blink hex finger, too.
I'm not saying it's a bad change or anything, just that it doesn't suddenly make her overpowered.
well i dont just mean catching someone off guard, but even in team conflicts, the person targeted by the team is so much easier to be brought down.. and with agha, it's going to be roughly 800 points of damage, which is at least 1/3 of any decent lategame carry (w/o hearts/eos/etc)
and my bad, didnt realize there's a 0.2sec delay between each lich bounce..
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Well thinking again yea kotl is really broken. Why rush a mek when Agha heals for more.
Lich Agha buff is overrated. His problem was never not enough bounces, but actually getting the right bounces.
I think its always going to be hard to balance bat. Conceptually, this hero is just too good that despite irritations like mana cost nerf, he is still wanted. If you nerf him too hard, he becomes unplayable as he will not be able to perform his role. What I mean is that he is not picked because he has a broken spell like AA. He performs a role that no other hero can match.
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simply port rampage from hon then u can pick between batrider or batrider spiritbreaker combo in 1 hero
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On April 26 2014 12:40 kaleidoscope wrote:
i think kotl, lina and lich's ulti need rework..
RP into chain frost is gonna deal tonnes of damage since they literally have no distance between them
lina's laguna blade that pierce through bkb? wasnt bkb meant to be magic immune? even skills like dismember is not even dealing damage through bkb.. so now the almighty bkb that at least granted magic damage immunity is no longer that viable..
kotl's agha is such a huge buff.. vision, heal.. 75% AOE heal on a low cooldown skill.. say hello to early-mid push sieging..
edit: and also, the big change before the biggest tournament.. so it's not just about being prepared, but the adaptability?
RP / blackhole into any nuke support aghas (CM w/o aghas, lion aghas, witch doc aghas etc, enigma aghas) already do a fuckton of damage. I can't see an extra 5ish bounces on lich ult being that big a deal.
Lina aghas also not that massive a concern. She's like lich in that she's likely only gonna be getting aghas if she's making kills happen well before it, and it makes her less totally fucked over by a BKB. For the few times she gets it in games that weren't won already, I don't think it'll merit reworking.
Kotl aghas IS insane though, both because it's insane, and because he actually has the tools to do what other supports do in the current meta - I.E. retreat to the woods and stack/farm.
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I just realized that the broken thing about Lich would be a straight up level 4 frost armor at level 7. Towers will never go down.
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Changes don't seem huge to me. Most of the big ones are aghs-on-support, with KotL being just about the only one who is likely to find the farm for it in the majority of games. If what happened to Crystal Maiden is any indication, Luna will suffer a lot from her nerf. Broodmother may actually be close to workable now. Admiral Bulldog apparently bribed Valve to make LD viable in most games again + Show Spoiler +. Dazzle should be less popular now that he can't stun; he's basically an alternative Omniknight now. I can see position 3/offlane Abaddon being slightly more popular since his aghs is very good. Silencer's buff isn't as big as it seems since level 4 Curse of the Silent comes pretty late for the low cd to make a huge difference in lane unless he's mid and the agility buff just makes him a little better at his support-into-carry role. Sven buff is pretty hefty. VS buff basically makes her into another aghs Abaddon but without the aghs, which is pretty strong.
Also, does shadow amulet not requiring the user to stand still mean that it's basically just a shadow blade without the attack speed? Nope, I guess "fade" and "invisibility" are different things.
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These are extremely high impact changes for anyone above the 'casual' level of play, calling this a small patch is more or less flat out wrong. Huskar and Ursa received a huge boon in their orbs losing orb status...
Nyx receives a nerf yet again, lol.
ZEUS GETS A RIDICULOUS ON-DEMAND INVIS-REVEAL? HOLY SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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On April 26 2014 10:40 saksy2 wrote:By far the funniest thing about the Lich change is that you can just stack up bouncing Chain Frosts on magic immune creeps like enemy ancients, to for example insta kill their carry when he comes to farm. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ORR1sGQ.jpg)
That's a good use of lich ultimates i guess lol. afterall unlimited bounces hahaha, you basically denied ancient farming to the enemy team.
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United States47024 Posts
If there's only 1 bouncing around, it's pretty easy for the carry to just tank one bounce and carry it far enough away that it won't bounce back (or use summoned units).
If there's multiple going, one has to wonder how you got to waste multiple Lich ult CDs on their Ancients rather than just winning fights.
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well its only a 60 sec CD at rank 3.
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EPT
