On August 02 2013 10:12 Torte de Lini wrote: I don't even know how they can entice and bring back burned consumers? I'm interested in seeing the expansion, but honestly; D3 has remained on my shelf as the biggest purchase I've made this year.
I mean... what can they do to make the game so much more fulfilling?
They've already improved the game a lot since launch. You should definitly check it out again. And remember, only a small minority of the 12 million pc sales complained. It's telling that still over a million people play this game every month. that's a pretty big number. Also, Loot 2.0 is coming a bit after Blizzcon (patch 1.09) Or before that which should make it a lot more interesting. Also, if the expansion fixes a lot of the more harder to repair stuff (the story in the expansion being decent) etc sure. They can bring a lot of consumers back.
its not a small minority that complained. d3 is in TONS of "most disappointing game 2012" lists, evryone i know complained,in evry forum/site people complained and those that didnt complain mostly just dropped and forgot about it.i know guys that had pretty much teary eyes a day before release cause they couldnt believe they finally had d3 in their hands, same guys stopped playing 3 weeks later cause they just didnt like the game at all.
d3 is sadly blizzards biggest fail(on quality,reputation etc, ofc it was a $ success) to date. yeah they fixed some stuff 6months later but it still has fundamental problems and plain misses promised content. thats just not acceptable and evry other company wouldve totally been shit on for it, its just the name that carries the game from total death (and the thousands of bots ofc)
the expansion unless they REALLY change and add a TON of things wont change much about that. the sad thing is that it will sell well no matter what and im gonna be honest, while the game itself left me with zero interest im most likely gonna follow what they plan for the addon. i want d3 to become good, i just doubt they will manage to do that.
or maybe they just announce special ladder stuff they copied from poe,could atleast bring a breath of fresh air in...
but before anything they have to do one thing, get humble and in contact with the community again. ever since wow took off blizzard always had this "we know what you want better then you and you better like it or gtfo" attitude. limiting options wherever they can and ignoring basic demands like simple chat channels (yeah here we are again) leads to doom sooner and later. if they lack to do that blizzard is in a bad situation soon and titans success could be majorly hurt if by then blizz alienated big parts of their used to be die hard fans.
There has to be a ladder which resets every few months like in d2 or d3 will never, ever work. No matter how they change the loot the economy is stupidly inflated even in hc. In general they have to port a bunch of stuff over from d2 if the game is supposed to have longevity
On August 05 2013 03:50 unkkz wrote: There has to be a ladder which resets every few months like in d2 or d3 will never, ever work. No matter how they change the loot the economy is stupidly inflated even in hc. In general they have to port a bunch of stuff over from d2 if the game is supposed to have longevity
d2 had the same problems with inflation, they just unfolded at a slower pace than the d3 inflation, thanks to the AH. due to the lower (but still high) inflation of d2, ladder resets every 6-12 months solved the issue. as long as the AH is present in d3 and amplifies the inflation, they would have to reset the ladder every 2 months to keep the inflation at bay. and then, the game would lose its appeal as well. nobody will enjoy going through a complete start from scratch that often.
the only chance at longevity i see for d3 is if they introduce casual races and events like on PoE AND introduce ladder seasons AND solve the AH issue.
my hopes are not really high for this to happen....
On August 05 2013 03:50 unkkz wrote: There has to be a ladder which resets every few months like in d2 or d3 will never, ever work. No matter how they change the loot the economy is stupidly inflated even in hc. In general they have to port a bunch of stuff over from d2 if the game is supposed to have longevity
d2 had the same problems with inflation, they just unfolded at a slower pace than the d3 inflation, thanks to the AH. due to the lower (but still high) inflation of d2, ladder resets every 6-12 months solved the issue. as long as the AH is present in d3 and amplifies the inflation, they would have to reset the ladder every 2 months to keep the inflation at bay. and then, the game would lose its appeal as well. nobody will enjoy going through a complete start from scratch that often.
the only chance at longevity i see for d3 is if they introduce casual races and events like on PoE AND introduce ladder seasons AND solve the AH issue.
my hopes are not really high for this to happen....
I think every 9 months ladder reset would do. Also merge paragon levels with normal levels so it doesn't look too much like a hack job.
[QUOTE]On August 04 2013 19:02 Seiniyta wrote: [QUOTE]On August 02 2013 10:12 Torte de Lini wrote: Also, Loot 2.0 is coming a bit after Blizzcon (patch 1.09) Or before that which should make it a lot more interesting.[/QUOTE]
That is STILL not in?
I remember reading about it half a year ago, at least.
On August 04 2013 20:26 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: i know guys that had pretty much teary eyes a day before release cause they couldnt believe they finally had d3 in their hands, same guys stopped playing 3 weeks later cause they just didnt like the game at all.
On August 04 2013 20:26 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: i know guys that had pretty much teary eyes a day before release cause they couldnt believe they finally had d3 in their hands, same guys stopped playing 3 weeks later cause they just didnt like the game at all.
this guy
then I found dota 2, and valve. never going back
Never spending a single cent on anything to do with Blizzard ever again, unless its Brood War HD, and even then I would look for a way to get it legaly without any money getting to Blizzard. Would pirate their games just to spite them. After the fiasko with sc2 I swore I would never buy anything ever again from them so in retrospect I deserved what I got for buying diabo...never again... Can they do something to dig themselves out of the hole they dug with the new starcraft/diablo games? No, maybe an open plea for forgivness and my money back for both games, and a written apology. edit: thank god for Valve.
Anyone that listened to what Blizzard announced for Diablo 3 before release and then invest time in the game felt like this:
The game has no Matchmaking PvP deathmatch or arena style, there is so little customization they took out mystic enchantment but left the least interesting craft/artisan system in a long time. Legendaries were piles of shit for months and then reworked to have some of the BiS in every possible character existing. The stats are boring as fuck, and the overpowered synergies between skills they wanted to avoid is more than ever prevalent with monk's FoF thunderclap+sweeping wind, critical mass wizard, tornadoes barb... They haven't issued a decently sized ban on botters since December, the game economy is a joke.
The game is nothing like what they tell us when they were hyping the game, tons of players are rightfully atleast disappointed but can also be disgusted. They seriously didn't deliver what they advertised. Diablo 3 is Anakin, they will advertise an expansion as Luke. I'm still pondering if I should be naive enough to believe in it or if I should just avoid being fooled again.
It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
On August 06 2013 05:35 SarcasmMonster wrote: It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
Given Blizzard's direction with Diablo 3, I'm almost certain that an expansion means more interesting items and one more act.
As long as the game is solely about farming to increase DPS to farm faster, I can't see the game being salvaged.
On August 06 2013 05:35 SarcasmMonster wrote: It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
Given Blizzard's direction with Diablo 3, I'm almost certain that an expansion means more interesting items and one more act.
As long as the game is solely about farming to increase DPS to farm faster, I can't see the game being salvaged.
Then what made Diablo 2 so successful? What other incentives or end-game could they provide (sans PvP, which is not for everyone) that wouldn't be farming loot "just" to have better loot/DPS?
I find it strange that so many people are still so vehemently against everything related to Diablo 3, even to the point of shitting on others that still enjoy and play the game. Don't get me wrong, I have lots of issues with it as well. I just tried it again recently after not touching it since a month after release, and while there are definitely some ok changes, especially the addition of monster power, it's not enough to rope me back in. Nonetheless, is it so hard to see why people still play the game?
Honestly though, I'm curious to see what changes people could propose that would repair the game to a level where they're even remotely satisfied. My only suggestion lies somewhere in the "remove the AH" as I see that as the one piece of the puzzle that caused the avalanche, for numerous reasons. But that will obviously never happen, for even more numerous reasons.
(btw, rant directed at thread in general, not necessarily you, WolfintheSheep)
I'm one of those who pre-ordered the game and even took a day off work to play release day, and logged in after 4 hours of server instability. Had a GREAT time leveling to 60. But that was it.
Like so many other posters here I'm not pre-ordering another Blizz product again. It's not just D3. SC2/HOTS, while not as bad, has a lot of shortcomings as well. They're still solid games though, just not the lasting appeal of the D2/War3/BW/WoW generation.
On August 06 2013 05:35 SarcasmMonster wrote: It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
Given Blizzard's direction with Diablo 3, I'm almost certain that an expansion means more interesting items and one more act.
As long as the game is solely about farming to increase DPS to farm faster, I can't see the game being salvaged.
Then what made Diablo 2 so successful? What other incentives or end-game could they provide (sans PvP, which is not for everyone) that wouldn't be farming loot "just" to have better loot/DPS?
I find it strange that so many people are still so vehemently against everything related to Diablo 3, even to the point of shitting on others that still enjoy and play the game. Don't get me wrong, I have lots of issues with it as well. I just tried it again recently after not touching it since a month after release, and while there are definitely some ok changes, especially the addition of monster power, it's not enough to rope me back in. Nonetheless, is it so hard to see why people still play the game?
Honestly though, I'm curious to see what changes people could propose that would repair the game to a level where they're even remotely satisfied. My only suggestion lies somewhere in the "remove the AH" as I see that as the one piece of the puzzle that caused the avalanche, for numerous reasons. But that will obviously never happen, for even more numerous reasons.
(btw, rant directed at thread in general, not necessarily you, WolfintheSheep)
I spent most of my time in Diablo 2 screwing around with different character builds and playing through the game with new characters.
Actually, that's usually what "replay value" means in a game for me. Reasons to play through the game again, or reasons to replay certain parts of the game for specific objectives. I've never enjoyed farming just to get that "perfect character".
On August 06 2013 05:35 SarcasmMonster wrote: It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
Given Blizzard's direction with Diablo 3, I'm almost certain that an expansion means more interesting items and one more act.
As long as the game is solely about farming to increase DPS to farm faster, I can't see the game being salvaged.
Then what made Diablo 2 so successful? What other incentives or end-game could they provide (sans PvP, which is not for everyone) that wouldn't be farming loot "just" to have better loot/DPS?
I find it strange that so many people are still so vehemently against everything related to Diablo 3, even to the point of shitting on others that still enjoy and play the game. Don't get me wrong, I have lots of issues with it as well. I just tried it again recently after not touching it since a month after release, and while there are definitely some ok changes, especially the addition of monster power, it's not enough to rope me back in. Nonetheless, is it so hard to see why people still play the game?
Honestly though, I'm curious to see what changes people could propose that would repair the game to a level where they're even remotely satisfied. My only suggestion lies somewhere in the "remove the AH" as I see that as the one piece of the puzzle that caused the avalanche, for numerous reasons. But that will obviously never happen, for even more numerous reasons.
(btw, rant directed at thread in general, not necessarily you, WolfintheSheep)
2 things, plain and simple, PvP and ambiance is what made Diablo 2 so successful.
Even if you never entered PvP a single time in your entire time playing- What gave items meaning, value, and kept people hungry for the item hunt, was the process of gearing out an amazing PvP character. It really didn't matter if PvP wasn't your thing, the ones that NEEDED the items, that kept the hunger for them alive for so long, were the hardcore players, and when I say hardcore I don't mean literally on hardcore, but the min-maxers that PvP'ed with an obsessive passion. This, in effect, raised the value of these items to the "holy grail" status, so that people hunting monsters might have gotten bored and didn't need them to keep running Baal runs, but they stayed insanely valuable because the ceiling of PvP was infinite due to them. So much of the community was driven by this that it effected the entire thing as a whole, and so many of us kept on playing to duel, and chase those perfect characters, as well as get those super unique items that you could build an entire character build around and start from the beginning with a twinky creative build.
The second thing was ambiance, the story was cool, the scenery, music, atmosphere were all so superior it's not even close. You really felt immersed in diablo 2, in diablo 3 it's terrible. I got bored of the atmosphere of diablo 3 within the first week, it's boring and repetitive. The only saving grace was the insanely unique opportunity to visit Heaven, but even that they only gave us a couple small maps inside a copy pasted linear path, it was a massive disappointment for such an incredibly potential idea for an environment. Another major flop on the part of blizzard. Diablo 2 created an incredibly nostalgic and addictive environment with aesthetically pleasing, different places to explore, diablo 3 gave us shit.
Oh and it goes without saying really, the Auction House implementation (both the real money and regular auction houses) also had a huge hand in murdering the fun of the item hunt. Why do I care about hunting for drops endlessly when I can simply buy them off the auction house when I get some money? Another terrible addition that gave us nothing to benefit the experience of a game like this.
On August 06 2013 05:35 SarcasmMonster wrote: It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
Given Blizzard's direction with Diablo 3, I'm almost certain that an expansion means more interesting items and one more act.
As long as the game is solely about farming to increase DPS to farm faster, I can't see the game being salvaged.
Then what made Diablo 2 so successful? What other incentives or end-game could they provide (sans PvP, which is not for everyone) that wouldn't be farming loot "just" to have better loot/DPS?
I find it strange that so many people are still so vehemently against everything related to Diablo 3, even to the point of shitting on others that still enjoy and play the game. Don't get me wrong, I have lots of issues with it as well. I just tried it again recently after not touching it since a month after release, and while there are definitely some ok changes, especially the addition of monster power, it's not enough to rope me back in. Nonetheless, is it so hard to see why people still play the game?
Honestly though, I'm curious to see what changes people could propose that would repair the game to a level where they're even remotely satisfied. My only suggestion lies somewhere in the "remove the AH" as I see that as the one piece of the puzzle that caused the avalanche, for numerous reasons. But that will obviously never happen, for even more numerous reasons.
(btw, rant directed at thread in general, not necessarily you, WolfintheSheep)
2 things, plain and simple, PvP and ambiance is what made Diablo 2 so successful.
Even if you never entered PvP a single time in your entire time playing- What gave items meaning, value, and kept people hungry for the item hunt, was the process of gearing out an amazing PvP character. It really didn't matter if PvP wasn't your thing, the ones that NEEDED the items, that kept the hunger for them alive for so long, were the hardcore players, and when I say hardcore I don't mean literally on hardcore, but the min-maxers that PvP'ed with an obsessive passion. This, in effect, raised the value of these items to the "holy grail" status, so that people hunting monsters might have gotten bored and didn't need them to keep running Baal runs, but they stayed insanely valuable because the ceiling of PvP was infinite due to them. So much of the community was driven by this that it effected the entire thing as a whole, and so many of us kept on playing to duel, and chase those perfect characters, as well as get those super unique items that you could build an entire character build around and start from the beginning with a twinky creative build.
The second thing was ambiance, the story was cool, the scenery, music, atmosphere were all so superior it's not even close. You really felt immersed in diablo 2, in diablo 3 it's terrible. I got bored of the atmosphere of diablo 3 within the first week, it's boring and repetitive. The only saving grace was the insanely unique opportunity to visit Heaven, but even that they only gave us a couple small maps inside a copy pasted linear path, it was a massive disappointment for such an incredibly potential idea for an environment. Another major flop on the part of blizzard. Diablo 2 created an incredibly nostalgic and addictive environment with aesthetically pleasing, different places to explore, diablo 3 gave us shit.
Oh and it goes without saying really, the Auction House implementation (both the real money and regular auction houses) also had a huge hand in murdering the fun of the item hunt. Why do I care about hunting for drops endlessly when I can simply buy them off the auction house when I get some money? Another terrible addition that gave us nothing to benefit the experience of a game like this.
I agree with your sentiments, for the most part. Again, I was mostly aiming (probably a bit harshly) at people who find it so profound that anyone still plays Diablo 3. A sentiment which has become pervasive in modern gaming, everything is either the best thing ever, or a piece of shit. Nothing between. It's hard to argue that Blizz doesn't make quality products. I can see why people are upset, and they make tons of mistakes, but it's not hard to see why people might still enjoy playing it. And "playing it" doesn't always mean grinding it for hours every day just with the intention of farming.
More to your points though, you're correct (though all of your points about PvP driving farming and economics I still think could be similarly attributed to the AH, as you said). I just find that so many people simply say "Diablo 2 was better", without offering suggestions as to why, in detail, or how to fix it, in detail. I'm also not trivializing that issue though! It's really hard to point fingers at lots of specific things and how to change it. It's just the overall product. Hard to put a finger on.
It was a disappointment, no doubt. Just not to the degree I find other people saying. And I also don't think it's beyond repair (i.e. I'm not on the "no more Blizz anything" train yet)
How and why d3 sucks for you is such a dead horse to beat on... Everything that has to be said about d3 had been repeated to the point of monotony by now. Some people love it despite its flaws and inconsistencies with its predecessor, others hate it for it.
I for one am pretty excited to hear what is coming! Judging on the approval mods are showing to some great community ideas recently makes me hope the game will finally rise to its hype (or it won't, and we can all go back to happily playing PoE!)
I still play D3 once in a while, usually when a major patch comes out. I agree with most of the complaints in this thread, but they don't turn me off as much as they do some people, so I still play the game.
That being said, D3 wasn't the instant classic that some of Blizzards games are. It was just good, not great.
On August 06 2013 05:35 SarcasmMonster wrote: It's a bit of a shame, one bad game out of many classics and suddenly people swear to never buy from Blizzard again. D3 expansion might be bad, might be good, it's not like it's impossible for Blizz to put out a decent expansion.
Given Blizzard's direction with Diablo 3, I'm almost certain that an expansion means more interesting items and one more act.
As long as the game is solely about farming to increase DPS to farm faster, I can't see the game being salvaged.
Then what made Diablo 2 so successful? What other incentives or end-game could they provide (sans PvP, which is not for everyone) that wouldn't be farming loot "just" to have better loot/DPS?
I find it strange that so many people are still so vehemently against everything related to Diablo 3, even to the point of shitting on others that still enjoy and play the game. Don't get me wrong, I have lots of issues with it as well. I just tried it again recently after not touching it since a month after release, and while there are definitely some ok changes, especially the addition of monster power, it's not enough to rope me back in. Nonetheless, is it so hard to see why people still play the game?
Honestly though, I'm curious to see what changes people could propose that would repair the game to a level where they're even remotely satisfied. My only suggestion lies somewhere in the "remove the AH" as I see that as the one piece of the puzzle that caused the avalanche, for numerous reasons. But that will obviously never happen, for even more numerous reasons.
(btw, rant directed at thread in general, not necessarily you, WolfintheSheep)
2 things, plain and simple, PvP and ambiance is what made Diablo 2 so successful.
Even if you never entered PvP a single time in your entire time playing- What gave items meaning, value, and kept people hungry for the item hunt, was the process of gearing out an amazing PvP character. It really didn't matter if PvP wasn't your thing, the ones that NEEDED the items, that kept the hunger for them alive for so long, were the hardcore players, and when I say hardcore I don't mean literally on hardcore, but the min-maxers that PvP'ed with an obsessive passion. This, in effect, raised the value of these items to the "holy grail" status, so that people hunting monsters might have gotten bored and didn't need them to keep running Baal runs, but they stayed insanely valuable because the ceiling of PvP was infinite due to them. So much of the community was driven by this that it effected the entire thing as a whole, and so many of us kept on playing to duel, and chase those perfect characters, as well as get those super unique items that you could build an entire character build around and start from the beginning with a twinky creative build.
The second thing was ambiance, the story was cool, the scenery, music, atmosphere were all so superior it's not even close. You really felt immersed in diablo 2, in diablo 3 it's terrible. I got bored of the atmosphere of diablo 3 within the first week, it's boring and repetitive. The only saving grace was the insanely unique opportunity to visit Heaven, but even that they only gave us a couple small maps inside a copy pasted linear path, it was a massive disappointment for such an incredibly potential idea for an environment. Another major flop on the part of blizzard. Diablo 2 created an incredibly nostalgic and addictive environment with aesthetically pleasing, different places to explore, diablo 3 gave us shit.
Oh and it goes without saying really, the Auction House implementation (both the real money and regular auction houses) also had a huge hand in murdering the fun of the item hunt. Why do I care about hunting for drops endlessly when I can simply buy them off the auction house when I get some money? Another terrible addition that gave us nothing to benefit the experience of a game like this.
I agree with your sentiments, for the most part. Again, I was mostly aiming (probably a bit harshly) at people who find it so profound that anyone still plays Diablo 3. A sentiment which has become pervasive in modern gaming, everything is either the best thing ever, or a piece of shit. Nothing between. It's hard to argue that Blizz doesn't make quality products. I can see why people are upset, and they make tons of mistakes, but it's not hard to see why people might still enjoy playing it. And "playing it" doesn't always mean grinding it for hours every day just with the intention of farming.
More to your points though, you're correct (though all of your points about PvP driving farming and economics I still think could be similarly attributed to the AH, as you said). I just find that so many people simply say "Diablo 2 was better", without offering suggestions as to why, in detail, or how to fix it, in detail. I'm also not trivializing that issue though! It's really hard to point fingers at lots of specific things and how to change it. It's just the overall product. Hard to put a finger on.
It was a disappointment, no doubt. Just not to the degree I find other people saying. And I also don't think it's beyond repair (i.e. I'm not on the "no more Blizz anything" train yet)
I don't think it's beyond repair either, but I do think theres a couple things wrong with some core mechanics that are just unchangeable beyond release so it will never be that perfect game. Personally I'm looking forward to them adding ladder resets eventually because one of my biggest beefs was loot stagnation ruining the game(and all the exploits/hacks w/e at release that never got a hard reset). I will almost definitely pick it back up once an expac comes.
EPT
