EPTPSA: Possible Nerf to your favorite Weapon - Page 5
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Blix
Netherlands873 Posts
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
On January 23 2013 03:40 Blix wrote: Burrfoot, does your table apply to dual wield? eg. i have 2 weaps, both with socket and emerald. As i understand it, the emerald applies to both weaps and the ruby only to the one it's in? If i have a slow and a fast weapon, would it make sense to put an emerald in the slow one and a ruby in the fast one.. etc etc =) Also, i assume that the critdamage in your table refers to the crit dmg you have after removing the emerald? Added the missing chart. Your % ruby is averaged between your two weapons if they are diff speeds. I'm leaning towards emeralds for both still. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
my main weapon is a chants anyways so im not too worried, but i liked the dps increase for pvp and archon runs. | ||
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saborcat_16
1 Post
plizz help, In my calculations lost ~`100 dmg per wep or this nerf is only for weapon with soc ? | ||
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calder
Canada44 Posts
"We do our best to ensure that we alert the community in advance of game changes (just like we did for the Legendary Item Improvements), and in this particular case, I wanted to jump in to reassure everyone that “black weapons” (i.e. weapons with the MinMaxDamage Affix) are not going to be nerfed in patch 1.0.7, and we have no plans going forward to nerf them. Known Issues are just that, bugs that we know about. They are NOT necessarily bugs that are going to be fixed. The MinMaxDamage bug has been a bug known to us since July of last year, however, we did not want to fix a bug that would effectively nerf a large number of existing weapons. That’s why we did not fix the bug in any previous patch that we've released since the bug was found, nor are we fixing it in patch 1.0.7. Currently, the plan is that at such a time that we address the bug, the bug fix will only apply to newly created items, so as to not adversely affect existing items." http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593743038?page=15#294 | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
For those that like colorful pictures: US Forum Link: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CoEZNfy.png) Historical Screenshot: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1Q4mdTWl.png) | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
Currently, the plan is that at such a time that we address the bug, the bug fix will only apply to newly created items, so as to not adversely affect existing items this basically means that one day they will fix the bug, which will make all weapons created from that point on much weaker. thus, it might be a wise idea to stock black dam weapons, hoping that they one day become highly-sought "legacy black damage weapons". just like everyone who bought a nats set in the early patches to sell it now would make a huge profit. what i want to say is that you should consider to not sell your old black-dam weaps once you purchased an upgrade - getting some mil for them now might be a bad deal when you can sell them for much higher in the future. | ||
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
On January 23 2013 08:19 Black Gun wrote: great news. the interesting part are the last 2 lines though: this basically means that one day they will fix the bug, which will make all weapons created from that point on much weaker. thus, it might be a wise idea to stock black dam weapons, hoping that they one day become highly-sought "legacy black damage weapons". just like everyone who bought a nats set in the early patches to sell it now would make a huge profit. what i want to say is that you should consider to not sell your old black-dam weaps once you purchased an upgrade - getting some mil for them now might be a bad deal when you can sell them for much higher in the future. I don't think they will fix the bug until the expack (which would presumably introduce totally different weapons and endgame scaling), it would make too big of a difference in existing itemization. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On January 21 2013 23:53 LSN wrote: first: +150-150 = +0-450 or = + 100-250; not 0-300 second: yes they can't nerf all those echoing furies, rares etc. It will not happend! third: "but they did it with ias nerf before ..."; bullshit! ias nerf was announced long before they actually did it. It affected all weapons that had ias in the same way. A weapon that had ias still had ias after and was better for its purpose (high as) than other weapons without ias, the ias was not removed but about halfed. If they now change this black dmg a lot of weapons with min/max dmg and high average dps will become much worse than they were before. They would become actually useless in many cases. Many top tier items what people paid fortunes for would become nearly worthless. fourth: solution: blizzard will fix this for future drops and let the existing weapons stay as they are just like legacy legendaries (e.g. legacy nat set with its overpowered hatred reg bonus). fifth: get one of these black damage weapons now as long as they are available sixth: the people who spread the word about all these black dmg items will be nerfed are gonna buy yours if you sell it now! seventh: just as it happened with the gems and falling prices. (bla bla gems will become worth 100k like on asia, see where they are now). anything else will cause alot of damage to the game who did exactly explain you what is gonna happen? I wonder how some people could have expected anything else than this! | ||
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0nLin3
3 Posts
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W4PapWB.png) Essentially stating, they know about (probably), don't care enough to fix it (whatever it is), and will get to it someday (when you least expect it!). Making me feel this. :-D | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On January 23 2013 11:17 0nLin3 wrote: A really bad decision made by blizzard. I don't see why, nerfing the majority of the weapons in the game would really upset the playerbase. Imagine you're just a casual player, you don't read forums or patch notes, you just play. You see your weapon has gone from 1300 DPS to 1100 overnight. That player would be extremely disappointed/annoyed. Accepting it would upset the playerbase, and leaving it, is actually the best decision. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On January 20 2013 15:19 Burrfoot wrote: This Thread is no longer valid! Blue has clarified their position: [...] Thanks for reading, and at this point, I only expect the bug to be fixed at the next MAJOR gear reset - probably the next expansion. When maybe they will buff Elemental Damage to be cool or something. Original Thread for reference: + Show Spoiler + Thought this topic was worth making for those that don't read the patch notes too carefully. The change isn't active on PTR yet as far as I can tell, but it is something that will likely get addressed, specifically due to the new red gems. I always make a point to cash out before every patch , and this is no different. IAS Nerf, New Legendaries, Monk Snapshot etc, I always believe it was my duty to cash out before something bad happens ( Exhibit A: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/utyF7qrl.png) The bug fix in the PTR 1.07 notes: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qYimqGL.png) (edit: clarification, it is not in the patch notes, but in the 1.07 Known Issues list, which is why it isn't verifiable nerfage on PTR atm : US Forums Link ) The main hypothetical reason was to allow the new boosted Red Gems to work properly if they are +150 min and +150 max damage, as it would have varying affects on different weapons unless this "bug" is fixed. (Some weapons would benefit much more than others) What popular weapons are likely affected by this bug? "Black Weapons" or those with +Min and +Max. But only if their damage range is fairly close - Windforce is a "black" weapon, but is/will not be affected because it's min damage is much lower than its max damage. The way damage calulations have worked with the MinMaxDam affix, was that since the min damage and bonus was added first, if the Base Min + Min affix > Base Max, then the Base Max got set equal to Base Min + Min affix + 1 , and then the Max affix added on top of the new Base Max. What does that mean exactly? Would probably be best to just show some examples of some popular weapons: Skorn: May get nerfed from 1428.2 to 1309.8 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tPjon0Bl.png) Echoing Fury: May get nerfed from 1300.2 to 1137.8 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uB6mC8Wl.png) Rare Spear: May get nerfed from 1245.6 to 1069.2 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LSh0TCIl.png) Rare Wand: May get nerfed from 1304.1 to 1090.95 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S3EeFHnl.png) Windforce: Not getting 'nerfed' because the base min damage + min affix is still < base max. Interestingly enough if it did calculate, it would be less damage than on live. (1333 vs 1407) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2jOEjt8l.png) As for your beloved Manticores, WKL, Shenlongs (ok maybe just me), they are not affected because they are ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, and are added after the "black" / base damage is affected. Manticore: (elemental damage with +31 max) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2YFonQhl.png) tl;dr Pay attention to what happens with how Blue responds or addresses this "bug fix" listed above. Your weapons may be worth much much less if it goes thru as suspected. I took the Echoing Fury example above: and with the +150minmax gem on 1.06 now it would bump from 1300 dps to 1757dps. If the bug is fixed, the 1300 would drop to 1137, but with a +150minmax gem would get boosted to 1442, which is what I suspect Blizz's goals are. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/03I8hOMl.png) (side note: if the Windforce listed above had a socket, it would then be bugged with the 150 gem and get boosted from 1407 to 1851 bugged, but only 1752 with it fixed) edit: #2 Adding some additional Info from a post further along the thread: Link Here is a Link to the "MinMaxDam" affix possibilities Blizzard mentioned: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/alC439jl.png) As the discussion drifted to buffing instead of nerfing, elemental damage weapons being allowed to benefit from +% Damage on weapon would result in this crappy 200k 992.5 dps Shenlong (ignore the socket) to get buffed to 1133 dps (elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier ) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ybklQfal.png) One important twist in this conversation from the 1.03 Patch: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V0kvSdR.png) This could mean that all that will get fixed is the below amulet will change from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention where a large +min damage bonus from jewelry 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus. (but only when testing really low level weapons where the affixes are greater than the base damage - but further testing required for confirmation, each value has several hidden #s associated with it) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mRbsZ0q.png) TL;DR edit #2! This is why the topic was titled: POSSIBLE, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix wording. Here is a TL;DR post from further in the thread: On January 22 2013 00:18 Burrfoot wrote: Decided to summarize the MinMaxDam bug and theorized pending bug fix in this post. This doesn't take into account the Jewelery discrepancy or the disparity between Elemental Weapon damage not benefiting from % Damage like "black weapons" do. This post mostly wants to highlight the reasoning behind the why some believe Blizz will end up fixing the weapon damage someday, if not in 1.07. The bug fix is listed as a "Known Issue" currently in 1.07 and we should all know a by now that a whole lot of known issues make it onto the Live servers and stay that way for months. This "Known Issue" has been known for ages (since launch), for example, here is the Known Issues List for Patch 1.05 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/D0G1l06l.png) Another example of a known issue since LAUNCH making it all the way until 1.07 to "fix" was the widely known Monk-snapshot. It was discovered on launch, listed as a known issue around 1.03 and finally got fixed on the 1.07 PTR. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cn4sKCel.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VDFXIYG.jpg) Echoing Fury: A fast popular weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 35% dps improvement from 1300 to 1757. A fix would make the +150 gem be 27% improvement. Skorn A slow 2-h weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 23% dps improvement from 1428 to 1761. A fix would make the +150 gem be 17% improvement. Manticore A slowish 2-h Crossbow, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 24% dps improvement from 1372 to 1705. A fix would make the +150 gem be 20% improvement. Calamity A VERY FAST 1-h Crossbow. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 51% dps improvement from 1111 to 1682. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Calamity Benefits from the bug, but with a +150 gem, will benefit in a pretty massive bonus that would surely make it better than the equivalent Crit Damage Gem. Shenlong A FAST 1-h fist, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 37% dps improvement from 992 to 1356. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Shenlong DOES NOT BENEFIT from the bug, but WITH a +150 gem, will benefit from the bug, but much less so due to the elemental damage (net 2% vs no bug). So how much money did you make off this story? I saw quite a few black weapons at crazy low prices  )))))))))) | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On January 23 2013 11:55 Burrfoot wrote: Follow up response: Link US Forums Essentially stating, they know about (probably), don't care enough to fix it (whatever it is), and will get to it someday (when you least expect it!). Making me feel this. :-D I dont appreciate being rick*rolled in the morning :D | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
On January 23 2013 19:58 Douillos wrote: I dont appreciate being rick*rolled in the morning :D I don't know what you are talking about! On January 23 2013 19:57 Douillos wrote: So how much money did you make off this story? I saw quite a few black weapons at crazy low prices ))))))))))Over 9000!! | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
So for what reason should blizzard do anything else than what they decided to do? 1. All guys with poor weapons want their pieces to be lifted to a higher quality level for free (yes we all like freebies, I like free beer) [the freebie guy, quite simple, didnt think about topic at all, just raises his voice cause there can be smth for free, unpolitical, does not go to elections oftenly because 1 vote makes no difference] 2. This whole story seems generally so wrong (which it is not in fact). Why are some weapons stronger than others? It can't be happening!! All must be same no matter what! Only bad people do wrong things. Wrong things must be fixed asap or you are bad people blizzard! I bet that over 70% (prolly 90%) of people who write here can and do not understand all aspects and possible outcomes of a decision in this scenario and furthermore the mechanics and effects of the bug onto the weapon dmg calculation and the impact on d3 economy of this issue at all. [the fairness guy, votes for left wing parties in politics, anti-capitalist, sometimes denies eating meat, tries to be pc in daily life] no offense - just as simple as it is ;-) p.s: the idea of adding any special abilities to elemantal dmg weapons is a good one | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
hopefully ill be able to get a nice bite off them in the following days :D | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
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Diminisherqc
Canada220 Posts
On January 21 2013 12:18 Burrfoot wrote: You know, I've been asked that more than once while I was playing WoW, and my answer is always: YES! Last time I played was during the 10-day free MoP trial (unimpressed). My epic fail warrior: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qv9sMbm.png) ahaha nice ! ... i pvped with you for a while on er think you switched server over guild drama.. lol i was diminisher i dwarf warrior good old times.... played like 1 month of cata and got bored...anyway world a small vilalge fun to catch you somewhere else hehe | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mqe4mqBl.png) Better late than never! | ||
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