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PSA: Possible Nerf to your favorite Weapon

Forum Index > Diablo 3
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Burrfoot
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States1176 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 02:56:02
January 20 2013 06:19 GMT
#1
This Thread is no longer valid! Blue has clarified their position:

US Forum Link:
[image loading]

With this Follow up response: Link
[image loading]
Essentially stating, they know about, don't care enough to fix it, and will get to it someday.

Basically, this was an issue discovered soon after launch / late beta by folks creating damage calculators and spreadsheets when they discovered a discrepancy on how certain non-elemental damage weapons of certain types with similar min/max damage ranges were calculated. This lead to an IF statement in most weapon dps calculators.

According to Blue, they discovered the bug officially circa July, between Patches 1.03 (IAS nerf) and 1.04 (Legendary++). It was then listed under the "Known Issues" List : + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
. But their exact wording seemed to indicate it was a small error, likely the Min+1, but no one knows for sure. This "Known Bug" carried thru to the 1.05 Known Issues: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
as well as the 1.06a Live Known Issues + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
. And finally the 1.07 PTR Known Issues list, which is how this thread started (I was unaware how long the fact it was known was).

Thanks for reading, and at this point, I only expect the bug to be fixed at the next MAJOR gear reset - probably the next expansion. When maybe they will buff Elemental Damage to be cool or something.

Original Thread for reference:
+ Show Spoiler +
Thought this topic was worth making for those that don't read the patch notes too carefully. The change isn't active on PTR yet as far as I can tell, but it is something that will likely get addressed, specifically due to the new red gems. I always make a point to cash out before every patch , and this is no different. IAS Nerf, New Legendaries, Monk Snapshot etc, I always believe it was my duty to cash out before something bad happens ( Exhibit A: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
)

The bug fix in the PTR 1.07 notes:
[image loading]
(edit: clarification, it is not in the patch notes, but in the 1.07 Known Issues list, which is why it isn't verifiable nerfage on PTR atm : US Forums Link )

The main hypothetical reason was to allow the new boosted Red Gems to work properly if they are +150 min and +150 max damage, as it would have varying affects on different weapons unless this "bug" is fixed. (Some weapons would benefit much more than others)

What popular weapons are likely affected by this bug? "Black Weapons" or those with +Min and +Max. But only if their damage range is fairly close - Windforce is a "black" weapon, but is/will not be affected because it's min damage is much lower than its max damage. The way damage calulations have worked with the MinMaxDam affix, was that since the min damage and bonus was added first, if the Base Min + Min affix > Base Max, then the Base Max got set equal to Base Min + Min affix + 1 , and then the Max affix added on top of the new Base Max.

What does that mean exactly? Would probably be best to just show some examples of some popular weapons:

Skorn: May get nerfed from 1428.2 to 1309.8
[image loading]

Echoing Fury: May get nerfed from 1300.2 to 1137.8
[image loading]

Rare Spear: May get nerfed from 1245.6 to 1069.2
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Rare Wand: May get nerfed from 1304.1 to 1090.95
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Windforce: Not getting 'nerfed' because the base min damage + min affix is still < base max. Interestingly enough if it did calculate, it would be less damage than on live. (1333 vs 1407)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


As for your beloved Manticores, WKL, Shenlongs (ok maybe just me), they are not affected because they are ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, and are added after the "black" / base damage is affected.

Manticore: (elemental damage with +31 max)
[image loading]

tl;dr Pay attention to what happens with how Blue responds or addresses this "bug fix" listed above. Your weapons may be worth much much less if it goes thru as suspected.

I took the Echoing Fury example above: and with the +150minmax gem on 1.06 now it would bump from 1300 dps to 1757dps. If the bug is fixed, the 1300 would drop to 1137, but with a +150minmax gem would get boosted to 1442, which is what I suspect Blizz's goals are.
[image loading]
(side note: if the Windforce listed above had a socket, it would then be bugged with the 150 gem and get boosted from 1407 to 1851 bugged, but only 1752 with it fixed)

edit: #2 Adding some additional Info from a post further along the thread: Link

Here is a Link to the "MinMaxDam" affix possibilities Blizzard mentioned: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix

[image loading]

As the discussion drifted to buffing instead of nerfing, elemental damage weapons being allowed to benefit from +% Damage on weapon would result in this crappy 200k 992.5 dps Shenlong (ignore the socket) to get buffed to 1133 dps (elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier )

[image loading]

One important twist in this conversation from the 1.03 Patch:
[image loading]

This could mean that all that will get fixed is the below amulet will change from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention where a large +min damage bonus from jewelry 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus. (but only when testing really low level weapons where the affixes are greater than the base damage - but further testing required for confirmation, each value has several hidden #s associated with it)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


TL;DR edit #2! This is why the topic was titled: POSSIBLE, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix wording. Here is a TL;DR post from further in the thread:

On January 22 2013 00:18 Burrfoot wrote:
Decided to summarize the MinMaxDam bug and theorized pending bug fix in this post. This doesn't take into account the Jewelery discrepancy or the disparity between Elemental Weapon damage not benefiting from % Damage like "black weapons" do. This post mostly wants to highlight the reasoning behind the why some believe Blizz will end up fixing the weapon damage someday, if not in 1.07. The bug fix is listed as a "Known Issue" currently in 1.07 and we should all know a by now that a whole lot of known issues make it onto the Live servers and stay that way for months.

This "Known Issue" has been known for ages (since launch), for example, here is the Known Issues List for Patch 1.05
[image loading]

Another example of a known issue since LAUNCH making it all the way until 1.07 to "fix" was the widely known Monk-snapshot. It was discovered on launch, listed as a known issue around 1.03 and finally got fixed on the 1.07 PTR. + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
So just the mere fact the the MinMaxDam bug is listed under the Known Issues in 1.07 and was in the game since launch and not listed in the actual PTR patch notes makes it anyone's guess on to when it will actually get fixed (my money is on Patch 1.12). The main wrinkle is how this issue will interact with the new buffed Rubies, and why I brought it up in this post. Blizzard stated that they wanted Rubies to be an OPTION for certain weapon types, but not the only option. There is some middle ground to play and to me personally, would make sense to require this bug be fixed, as in Blizzard's eyes it would hopefully promote weapon variety and gem variety.

[image loading]

Echoing Fury:
A fast popular weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 35% dps improvement from 1300 to 1757. A fix would make the +150 gem be 27% improvement.

Skorn
A slow 2-h weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 23% dps improvement from 1428 to 1761. A fix would make the +150 gem be 17% improvement.

Manticore
A slowish 2-h Crossbow, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 24% dps improvement from 1372 to 1705. A fix would make the +150 gem be 20% improvement.

Calamity
A VERY FAST 1-h Crossbow. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 51% dps improvement from 1111 to 1682. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Calamity Benefits from the bug, but with a +150 gem, will benefit in a pretty massive bonus that would surely make it better than the equivalent Crit Damage Gem.

Shenlong
A FAST 1-h fist, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 37% dps improvement from 992 to 1356. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Shenlong DOES NOT BENEFIT from the bug, but WITH a +150 gem, will benefit from the bug, but much less so due to the elemental damage (net 2% vs no bug).
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career
RusHXceL
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1004 Posts
January 20 2013 06:53 GMT
#2
lol sucks for the #1 echoing fury to get downgraded :p
yokohama
Profile Joined February 2005
United States1116 Posts
January 20 2013 07:35 GMT
#3
On January 20 2013 15:53 RusHXceL wrote:
lol sucks for the #1 echoing fury to get downgraded :p


Yeah, I bet that guy that paid all that money isn't too happy!
yanot
Profile Joined March 2010
France130 Posts
January 20 2013 08:49 GMT
#4
wow that's a huge nerf
ffswowsucks
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Greece2294 Posts
January 20 2013 09:00 GMT
#5
Wow. thank god I invested all my gold on StormShields and not weapons!
Terran in particular is a notoriously strong race for a no brain skillhand bot style.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
January 20 2013 09:43 GMT
#6
Hey, have you had confirmation of this by a blue?
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1358 Posts
January 20 2013 09:53 GMT
#7
[image loading] hey sry im to hang to understand it all, but sell or keep this? (archon wiz)
mada mada dane
Essence
Profile Joined October 2005
165 Posts
January 20 2013 10:27 GMT
#8
Well, its DPS - if this change goes live as it is - will be 887,1 as opposed to its current value. Since the patch note includes the fix, and it is actually a known bug, the safest might be to sell it in my humble opinion.
Confuse
Profile Joined October 2009
2238 Posts
January 20 2013 10:32 GMT
#9
Good to know; I still think +Min/Max damage will be an important stat though, since I heard somewhere that the boosts to + 6 % elemental damage include min/max in their calculations, compared to not including them for elemental damage items. The price drop might be welcome since they are a bit overpriced right now imo
If we fear what we do not understand, then why is ignorance bliss?
TBO
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1350 Posts
January 20 2013 10:47 GMT
#10
[image loading]

so this will get nerfed quite a bit I guess?
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1358 Posts
January 20 2013 10:53 GMT
#11
thanks for the help, also im curious how this will affect % dmg like on triumvirat/tal rasha amu, will that stay the same at least or also wont work anymore after the patch?
mada mada dane
Essence
Profile Joined October 2005
165 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-20 11:17:33
January 20 2013 11:03 GMT
#12
On January 20 2013 19:47 TBO wrote:
[image loading]

so this will get nerfed quite a bit I guess?


711,3 DPS

EDIT: Number is off. this is the worst case scenario.
subvn
Profile Joined September 2012
16 Posts
January 20 2013 11:04 GMT
#13
I heavily doubt Blizzard is going to nerf existing weapons like that.
Diablo 3 is a game where you can easily calculate how much dollars or euros your character is worth. It would be too obvious for the customers/players to see that they got robbed. They don't need more bad press.
Need more proof.
Essence
Profile Joined October 2005
165 Posts
January 20 2013 11:07 GMT
#14
IAS nerf in 1.03? I would not be surprised at all if this went through, after all, it is not a nerf, it is a bug fix to balance out their latest feature in the Ruby upgrades...
subvn
Profile Joined September 2012
16 Posts
January 20 2013 11:15 GMT
#15
Didn't know about the IAS nerf. Only played at release and started again a few weeks ago.
So if they have done something like this before then I guess it's more likely. Still find it hard to believe. Maybe I give Blizzard too much credit.
Blix
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands873 Posts
January 20 2013 11:39 GMT
#16
Thanks for the heads-up, going to sell some of my weapon collection ;-). I saw yesterday on a stream, how a sword went from 1200ish dps to 1700ish dps with addition of a ruby, i guess this is what they want to tackle. On the other hand, if they do fix this, rubies will still be a poor choice in 99+% of the cases.
Conquer yourself not the world. - Descartes
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
January 20 2013 12:11 GMT
#17
so basicly all my sorcs weapons will be shit? all black dmg cause of elemental % scaling.

hooray... -_-
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Dirkinity
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany409 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-20 13:02:31
January 20 2013 12:39 GMT
#18
Thats really terrible if Blizzards nerfs things afterwards. I just bought a black weapon for 35 mio...

Sold my weapon. If this not goes live I will be very angry! Now I have no weapon at all. WTB barb weapon kkthxbye? :D
Doso
Profile Joined March 2008
Germany769 Posts
January 20 2013 13:04 GMT
#19
Good thing i just sold my black weapon for archon i suppose =)
Burrfoot
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States1176 Posts
January 20 2013 13:11 GMT
#20
On January 20 2013 18:00 ffswowsucks wrote:
Wow. thank god I invested all my gold on StormShields and not weapons!


That's about as smart as investing in Holy Weapons for PvP (no holy resist!) (lol, maybe sarcasm)

On January 20 2013 21:39 Dirkinity wrote:
Sold my weapon. If this not goes live I will be very angry! Now I have no weapon at all. WTB barb weapon kkthxbye? :D


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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career
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