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So after messing around with it a bit
crit chance decreases the relative damage % of SW from ~22% @5% crit to ~15% at 60%(general upperbound for crit chance on monks)
Attack speed increases the relative damage of SW very minimally. Apparently though if you have like 20000% AS SW outscales both thunderclap and cyclones. I don't know the math behind this so I can't tell you if it's right or not.
crit damage does nothing.
Weapon damage does nothing
Weapon speed also increases the relative damage of SW.
So the damage bonus from WKL is going to be somewhere between 80 and 85% effective.
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I played around with that calculator and:
1. It was a pain in the ass manually inputting my stats.
2. After that pain in the ass, it calculated my dps to be 77.6k, my dps in game is 79.3k, so it's not the most accurate calculator ever.
3. Total calculated dps: 401.5k.
4. SW dps: 49.8k, Cyclone dps: 110.9k.
With some basic math, [(401.5k - 49.8) * 1.24] + 49.8k = 485.9k total dps (my WKL is 24%).
WKL's +% lightning affects ~87.5% of my dps.
WKL's +% lightning contributes ~17.5% of my total dps.
Edit: I fixed it.
Edit: No more math on text based media, too hard.
Edit yet again: The way I look at it is: if my WKL's +% lightning contributes 17.5% more dps for me, a new weapon would need to contribute 17.5% more paper doll dps (or, give me at least 13k more paper doll dps) to overcome WKL. That's not perfect math, but just a logical shortcut to the effectiveness of WKL versus replacing it. Basically, a well rolled WKL is irreplaceable.
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On November 02 2012 09:51 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 09:42 Tilorn91 wrote:On November 02 2012 03:54 Samba wrote:Hm, really strange, friend of mine just asked me to help him with act2 keywarden on MP4 and i got destroyed on pretty much every stack... don´t know what happend, usually i don´t have any problems on MP4. For the uber´s i just switch the gem for the helmet and use transcendence and it works just fine on MP4. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Samba-1157/hero/50295Btw, what skillset are you guys using for uber´s? How do you have 20k more dps then me with 13% less crit chance? And WKL adds so much effective dps too, I feel cheated. http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tilorn-1602/hero/387807 He logged out with buffs on. find him in diabloprogress or something for actual base DPS. I could log out with 174k dps just with blind+wrath if I wanted to, with WKL that's ~200k, but that doesn't actually mean much.
Yeah, that´s all buffed. Your unbuffed dps should be a good tad higher than mine, don´t know my actual dps, because i´m really too lazy to (attempt to) do the math. 
I lost 10% crit after i found the Mempo and got the Hellfirering, but it´s still better than my old helm and ring...
I have no idea how effective the WKL is, the bonus doesn´t show up in the dps stat, right? But it feels way better than my old 900 dps/ 160% crit (with gem).
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I think I've finalized my new farming build & gear.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/288090
SW - inner storm and exalted soul instead of chant of resonance, but aside from that gear is the same.
Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode).
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On November 02 2012 14:54 Amui wrote:I think I've finalized my new farming build & gear. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/288090SW - inner storm and exalted soul instead of chant of resonance, but aside from that gear is the same. Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode).
4piece Inna's is really good for mp0 farming with TW.
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4pc Inna isn't really needed with Exalted Soul for MP0/1, since there is no real need to mantra spam since I use submission. I just hate using 2 handers. I ended up picking up a SoJ with 28/2.2 for 500k because it had deadly reach (woo!)
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On November 02 2012 18:56 Derrida wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 14:54 Amui wrote:I think I've finalized my new farming build & gear. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/288090SW - inner storm and exalted soul instead of chant of resonance, but aside from that gear is the same. Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode). 4piece Inna's is really good for mp0 farming with TW.
not really unless you're picking up a bunch of random items. between tempest rush, clap, and 34% move speed, there's hardly ever any moments where you need to recast SW especially with a3's mob density
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On November 02 2012 14:54 Amui wrote:I think I've finalized my new farming build & gear. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/288090SW - inner storm and exalted soul instead of chant of resonance, but aside from that gear is the same. Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode).
So, it is unclear to me again now, doesn't your movement speed (lacuni + inna + fleet footed) cap out at 25%?
Why would you choose for fleet footed if it only gains you an extra 1%?
Or does fleet footed go over the cap?
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fleet footed exceeds the 25% cap
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On November 02 2012 19:23 wooozy wrote:
fleet footed exceeds the 25% cap
wow fast response, ok, good to know, I read in multiple places it doesn't! Thanks!
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for the record, it was a change in 1.0.4 so you might have just read something older
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Previously I asked and received a lot of good advice from this thread when it was still patch 1.0.3. Since then I kind of just played the game myself using the old rule of thumb and building on it.
However I came back to this thread to see if there were any new developments since now we're on patch 1.0.5. There are a few things in the monk profiles in the last few pages that stood out to me. I apologize ahead of time if these were already covered as I only had time to read through the last 10 pages.
1. I noticed a lot of monks here have their armor at around 3.5k to 4k. Is that actually enough armor to stay alive? Or do you guys just kill so fast that you are able to kill everything within the 4sec of serenity? I've always tried to keep my armor at least 7k. Also I find myself having to switch to a shield during MP5 uberSeigebreaker runs because my current LoH of 2.1k doesn't sustain me enough while I'm standing in that "slow bubble" that Kulle casts.
2. I also notice that atk speed is no longer a priority stat. Is this because Life Steal depends on damage and so by using more LS than LoH, atk speed is no longer useful? I kind of kept LoH as my main life regeneration tool because my atk speed is at 2.5 and for me to get the same about of hp regeneration wit life steal, I would have to do 4.3m dmg per second at 6% LS. My paper dps says around 100k per second so I don't think even with my buffs and SW, I'd be able to get to 4.3m dmg per sec.
3. I also noticed that the HP of the monks are usually at 35k or above. I personally have found that higher hp didnt do me any good because I was not able to heal that much with my skills or hp pots for it to matter. I found my hp of 26k to be more than enough in terms of not getting one or two shotted. Is the reason the hp is 35k+ for the fact that it allows you more error in terms of knowing when to run away from the ubers to wait for serenity CD's?
My profile is linked below in case you were wondering what my gear and build looks like. I feel like I have a decent amount of sustain, LoH, and dps, but I find MP5 ubers to be the highest I can comfortably do. I know my gears aren't that great but I'm not really looking to spend 400m on each piece of gear.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/xusam-1929/hero/12836268
Thanks in advance for helping me with my questions.
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1) 3-4k armor is plenty for low MP which is the most efficient way to farm (unless doing keys/ubers). you're also not supposed to stand in the bubble... o.O
2) it's still a good stat. just need to find a nice balance between ias/cc/cd. i personally still prefer a good deal of ias because i'm more loh based, but i did buy a shenlong with life steal since it works with sweeping winds/seven sided strike
3) i duno, just a safer buffer zone i guess. this might be why you can't handle higher than mp5 ubers since you just get bursted down by sk walk/maghda butterflies or something and are forced to play scared while serenity is down
to be honest, i'm not sure why you're running around with 2k loh; seems so unnecessary. switch out your amulet for one with high vit and two primary damage stats (ias/cc/cd) of your choosing and you'll be better off. i'd go with cc/cd since you have more than enough attack speed
i stack way less defensive stats than you and i can solo mp7 ubers with no trouble at all - i don't even spec serenity in mp5 ubers. i'm sure my profile is somewhere within the last page, but it's currently in a random farming build with a leoric's equipped so it won't do much good.
edit: on another note, you have more than enough resists so if you can find a way to make up the vit, go get some inna's pants. they're really cheap if you get one with just a fire resist roll
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2012 17:04 xusam wrote:Previously I asked and received a lot of good advice from this thread when it was still patch 1.0.3. Since then I kind of just played the game myself using the old rule of thumb and building on it. However I came back to this thread to see if there were any new developments since now we're on patch 1.0.5. There are a few things in the monk profiles in the last few pages that stood out to me. I apologize ahead of time if these were already covered as I only had time to read through the last 10 pages. 1. I noticed a lot of monks here have their armor at around 3.5k to 4k. Is that actually enough armor to stay alive? Or do you guys just kill so fast that you are able to kill everything within the 4sec of serenity? I've always tried to keep my armor at least 7k. Also I find myself having to switch to a shield during MP5 uberSeigebreaker runs because my current LoH of 2.1k doesn't sustain me enough while I'm standing in that "slow bubble" that Kulle casts. 2. I also notice that atk speed is no longer a priority stat. Is this because Life Steal depends on damage and so by using more LS than LoH, atk speed is no longer useful? I kind of kept LoH as my main life regeneration tool because my atk speed is at 2.5 and for me to get the same about of hp regeneration wit life steal, I would have to do 4.3m dmg per second at 6% LS. My paper dps says around 100k per second so I don't think even with my buffs and SW, I'd be able to get to 4.3m dmg per sec. 3. I also noticed that the HP of the monks are usually at 35k or above. I personally have found that higher hp didnt do me any good because I was not able to heal that much with my skills or hp pots for it to matter. I found my hp of 26k to be more than enough in terms of not getting one or two shotted. Is the reason the hp is 35k+ for the fact that it allows you more error in terms of knowing when to run away from the ubers to wait for serenity CD's? My profile is linked below in case you were wondering what my gear and build looks like. I feel like I have a decent amount of sustain, LoH, and dps, but I find MP5 ubers to be the highest I can comfortably do. I know my gears aren't that great but I'm not really looking to spend 400m on each piece of gear. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/xusam-1929/hero/12836268Thanks in advance for helping me with my questions.
Build looks fine.
1. I'm running a hair above 3k in my farm gear, and 450 LoH using a 2H with 31k hp. Works fine on MP0 =). As for higher MP's I'm sitting at about 4.5k, which is enough. Try to do uber's in groups, because the kulle one in particular is really, really rough for soloing as a monk. Don't even bother attacking in a slow bubble, get out and kite stuff.
2. Crit is cheaper than AS, and scales better initially when dual wielding assuming double socketed emeralds due to cyclones. Obviously it's be nice to have both, but that's a luxury.
3. HP is very nice for a buffer when running on higher MP. Makes life a lot easier when you can just eat stuff and heal it back eventually. Some uber's can hit you for over 20k in a single shot, and there are scenarios where you just need enough eHP to survive(eg. SB picks you up and you get hit by a fireball while a tornado goes over you, and serenity is down).
I highly recommend just farming machines alone, and then doing them in groups(see infernal machine thread). I can very comfortably do MP8 in a group with a barb with a lot less damage reduction(higher HP by far though)(~45k hp, 650AR, 4.5k armor, 500LoH&2.8%LS, 100k unbuffed dps)
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On November 02 2012 14:54 Amui wrote:I think I've finalized my new farming build & gear. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/288090SW - inner storm and exalted soul instead of chant of resonance, but aside from that gear is the same. Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode).
I really prefer quickening rune over thunderclap, and I use guardians path for 35% increased spirit gain over exalted soul. This way you instantly fill your 150 spirit pool with a crit on multiple mobs, allowing you to keep on churning. I also run seven sided strike over blinding flash to instantly pop elite packs, and cyclone rune on sw with regeneration aura spirit rune as It just feels like more damage then the way you've got it setup at high crit% (plus cyclone's look sexier).
I do use 4p inna's though so my sweeping winds is always on 3 stacks even when travelling between areas, so I don't have the need to auto stuff to gain some initial spirit for tempest rush.
MP 1 is basically the same as mp0 for me (115k unbuffed with the gear I use for alkaizer runs), I feel like ~150k+ unbuffed would be needed for smooth mp2 though.
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I don't see a point to aim for anything higher than MP0 until you can do MP4 when the +% bonus item actually become somewhat noticible (26%). And the cost of the gear needed to obtain the amount of dps you'd need to farm MP1,2,3,4 vs MP0 doesn't seem quite worth it .. yet anyways.
Some items I'd recommend for spirit:
Inna's Radiance (2+ duh)
Stone of Jordan (2+ can get TR crit on them now, plus they are cheap(er)
Xephirian Amulet (2+, has farming MF/GF, and can roll a bunch of dps stats)
2x Fists (4+ for the folks like me that hate 2h, and like shooting fireballs!)
Shields (Lidless Wall for up to 2 and +% tempest rush crit chance. Rare shields can have TR crit and normal crit (up to +18% TR crit)
Sample crap on AH now:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PgKW6l.png)
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What is the best follower for a monk guys? I've been using the templar, never tried the other ones...
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I found enchantress to be my personal favourite for the attack speed buff, but a scoundrel can work too with the crit % buff.
And one more thing I'm wondering, if you put the same gear from a monk and put it on a DH (apart from the weapons ofc, but lets assume similar xbows) and without the skills or passives, will the dps on the character sheet be the same? Since it just seems like DHs have an easier time farming with all the mobility and damage, might as well spend 10hours to get a DH to 60 and farm away.
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Templar all the way if you use Tailwind! Plus Sun Keepers are down below 100k now ;-D
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On November 03 2012 20:54 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 14:54 Amui wrote:I think I've finalized my new farming build & gear. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Porouscloud-1152/hero/288090SW - inner storm and exalted soul instead of chant of resonance, but aside from that gear is the same. Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode). I really prefer quickening rune over thunderclap, and I use guardians path for 35% increased spirit gain over exalted soul. This way you instantly fill your 150 spirit pool with a crit on multiple mobs, allowing you to keep on churning. I also run seven sided strike over blinding flash to instantly pop elite packs, and cyclone rune on sw with regeneration aura spirit rune as It just feels like more damage then the way you've got it setup at high crit% (plus cyclone's look sexier). I do use 4p inna's though so my sweeping winds is always on 3 stacks even when travelling between areas, so I don't have the need to auto stuff to gain some initial spirit for tempest rush. MP 1 is basically the same as mp0 for me (115k unbuffed with the gear I use for alkaizer runs), I feel like ~150k+ unbuffed would be needed for smooth mp2 though.
Could either of you post a video as to what this farming run might look like? Or link to one? I have been seriously struggling to level with the standard FoT build and think this is a pretty cool idea
Edit: Just tried it with the skills listed and its pretty intuitive. This build is a lot of fun, way better at farming (20 min for about 10 mill exp - not that great compared to barbs, but way better then what i was running at before) and super fast paced, haha. Thanks guys!
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EPT
