Build basically only works on MP0(maybe 1 if you have significantly more dps than me) because you rely so much on passive AoE to kill stuff quickly. Faith->cast mantra+SW, and then use TR to get between groups of mobs, and FoT to kill them(large groups of weak mobs is more efficient to go WW barb mode).
I really prefer quickening rune over thunderclap, and I use guardians path for 35% increased spirit gain over exalted soul. This way you instantly fill your 150 spirit pool with a crit on multiple mobs, allowing you to keep on churning. I also run seven sided strike over blinding flash to instantly pop elite packs, and cyclone rune on sw with regeneration aura spirit rune as It just feels like more damage then the way you've got it setup at high crit% (plus cyclone's look sexier). I do use 4p inna's though so my sweeping winds is always on 3 stacks even when travelling between areas, so I don't have the need to auto stuff to gain some initial spirit for tempest rush. MP 1 is basically the same as mp0 for me (115k unbuffed with the gear I use for alkaizer runs), I feel like ~150k+ unbuffed would be needed for smooth mp2 though.
Could either of you post a video as to what this farming run might look like? Or link to one? I have been seriously struggling to level with the standard FoT build and think this is a pretty cool idea
just a random monk with a random build, but he does alkaizer run which is seen as a very good (the best?) xp run.
On November 03 2012 17:37 wooozy wrote: 1) 3-4k armor is plenty for low MP which is the most efficient way to farm (unless doing keys/ubers). you're also not supposed to stand in the bubble... o.O
2) it's still a good stat. just need to find a nice balance between ias/cc/cd. i personally still prefer a good deal of ias because i'm more loh based, but i did buy a shenlong with life steal since it works with sweeping winds/seven sided strike
3) i duno, just a safer buffer zone i guess. this might be why you can't handle higher than mp5 ubers since you just get bursted down by sk walk/maghda butterflies or something and are forced to play scared while serenity is down
to be honest, i'm not sure why you're running around with 2k loh; seems so unnecessary. switch out your amulet for one with high vit and two primary damage stats (ias/cc/cd) of your choosing and you'll be better off. i'd go with cc/cd since you have more than enough attack speed
i stack way less defensive stats than you and i can solo mp7 ubers with no trouble at all - i don't even spec serenity in mp5 ubers. i'm sure my profile is somewhere within the last page, but it's currently in a random farming build with a leoric's equipped so it won't do much good.
edit: on another note, you have more than enough resists so if you can find a way to make up the vit, go get some inna's pants. they're really cheap if you get one with just a fire resist roll
On November 03 2012 17:40 Amui wrote:
Build looks fine.
1. I'm running a hair above 3k in my farm gear, and 450 LoH using a 2H with 31k hp. Works fine on MP0 =). As for higher MP's I'm sitting at about 4.5k, which is enough. Try to do uber's in groups, because the kulle one in particular is really, really rough for soloing as a monk. Don't even bother attacking in a slow bubble, get out and kite stuff.
2. Crit is cheaper than AS, and scales better initially when dual wielding assuming double socketed emeralds due to cyclones. Obviously it's be nice to have both, but that's a luxury.
3. HP is very nice for a buffer when running on higher MP. Makes life a lot easier when you can just eat stuff and heal it back eventually. Some uber's can hit you for over 20k in a single shot, and there are scenarios where you just need enough eHP to survive(eg. SB picks you up and you get hit by a fireball while a tornado goes over you, and serenity is down).
I highly recommend just farming machines alone, and then doing them in groups(see infernal machine thread). I can very comfortably do MP8 in a group with a barb with a lot less damage reduction(higher HP by far though)(~45k hp, 650AR, 4.5k armor, 500LoH&2.8%LS, 100k unbuffed dps)
Amui and woozy,
First I really appreciate the timely responses. Also your responses not only covered the gear but also playstyle. This gives me more options to try to find a solution.
Your responses make a lot of sense. I guess you guys have experienced the same things I have. It seems like I was still in the old-school train of thought on VIT not mattering as much and just stacking resist and armor because of the massive dmg pre-patch 1.0.3 or 1.0.2.
But if you guys say that now the VIT helps sustain more than adding more armor (4.5k-5k is fine now, cuz I could have swore during one of the earlier patches 1.0.2? the minimum armor and AR was like 7k and 700AR) then I feel more comfortable in taking your advice especially since the examples given are the exact senarios I am having problems with. (I tried stacking more LoH to 3k per second and it didn't really help, also when i try to get out of the Kulle bubble, im not getting any LoH while running out of the bubble i pretty much get down to half HP and then SG #$@#$@ picks me up and Kulle blasts me is a @#$@#$@# and I'm dead because my VIT is too low makes sense, if I have higher VIT I can take that hit and then just run away to heal)
Not solo-ing the SG/kulle uber pair is probably very reasonable advice also, sometimes the damn bubbles are so many I don't really have an area where I can hit SG and not stand in a bubble and if I cant hit them, I get no LoH and sometimes my BoH/potion cool downs are too long and I get chased down and hit while I'm !##@$ running out of the bubble, so that's why I would just stand in the bubble cuz at least I get some LoH even though it becomes a lot less. lol
Ok so in summary: 1. Give up LoH on amulet and replace with high VIT will help me more with sustain when going MP6+ uber runs 2. easier to play in a group for ubers but hunting keys solo is fine
In addition I have one question for woozy is: The reason I didn't go for Inna's pants was because I already had the move speed on my bracer. Is it better to have the move speed on Inna's pants so I can drop the lacuni's bracers and get a bracer with 6% CC and higher VIT? Or is it just better to have both lacuni's bracer and inna's pants, cuz I was under the impression that since I'm capped at 25% move speed its better to just have move speed on only two items for 24% move speed.
it's not so much the move speed as it is the free 9% ias on inna's pants (plus a free 1% cc). if after switching to the pants and you feel too squishy, feel free to find a more defensive bracer since high crit lacunis are stupidly expensive. personally i still use inna's pants/nat's boots/lacunis because i have enough defensive stats elsewhere and i like the +18% attack speed.
also, 1% move speed is totally imba!
with regards to siege/kulle, it's actually not THAT hard to solo. you can pretty much just give kulle a nice poke once in a while and he'll teleport (hopefully far away) and that gives you a lot of breathing room to punch siege's face in. you just have to be really patient and only use your blind when you're absolutely sure a bubble or a grab won't be coming soon to fully utilize the burst damage. the only time i ever need to pop serenity is if kulle pulls some bullshit and puts a nado/bubble right on top of me or if i panic after getting hit by 1-2 of siege's triple swipe thing. still though, it's generally better to play ubers in a group not only because it makes it insanely easier, but also for more organzzzz (and machine sharing amongst each other)
On November 03 2012 22:36 Tilorn91 wrote: I found enchantress to be my personal favourite for the attack speed buff, but a scoundrel can work too with the crit % buff.
And one more thing I'm wondering, if you put the same gear from a monk and put it on a DH (apart from the weapons ofc, but lets assume similar xbows) and without the skills or passives, will the dps on the character sheet be the same? Since it just seems like DHs have an easier time farming with all the mobility and damage, might as well spend 10hours to get a DH to 60 and farm away.
This isn't really a fair question because DH's gravitate towards crossbows, giving them a quiver for attack speed *and* a two hander's stats/dmg.
If you gave a DH two hand-crossbows with the same stats as a Monk's weapons then the paperdoll dps will be the same (since they're calculated exactly the same across all characters).
Also, there pretty much is no such thing as an offensive Monk passive, while the DH has a few (archery and sharpshooter come to mind). So once you start speccing, things will change pretty fast.
DH's are a very good farming class; they're very fast and do a ton of damage. They don't need as much resistance as monks (I hear) because they can't take a hit anyways due to lacking armor (like monks) *and* the 30% melee dmg reduction. If you're good at staying away from mobs, then you will be very successful as a DH; if not, then you'll find the DH to be unbearably squishy...
I actually have both at lvl 60 and thought the way you did; just share gear, but I find the Monk *so* much more fun that my DH hit paragon lvl 1 and that was it (she's not even done with A1 on Inferno...).
So I haven't touched this since I cleared Inferno on my bugged Wizard a long time ago, can you play "fun specs" on Monk now in Inferno without way expensive gear?
If so what stats am I looking at these days, budget of 2.5 million. All of my old Monk gear is from the turtle build days.
On November 03 2012 22:36 Tilorn91 wrote: I found enchantress to be my personal favourite for the attack speed buff, but a scoundrel can work too with the crit % buff.
And one more thing I'm wondering, if you put the same gear from a monk and put it on a DH (apart from the weapons ofc, but lets assume similar xbows) and without the skills or passives, will the dps on the character sheet be the same? Since it just seems like DHs have an easier time farming with all the mobility and damage, might as well spend 10hours to get a DH to 60 and farm away.
Also, there pretty much is no such thing as an offensive Monk passive, while the DH has a few (archery and sharpshooter come to mind). So once you start speccing, things will change pretty fast.
yo dawg, guiding light. everyone knows that skill is the bestest. with the insane range on our heal, there's no reason not to use it
and technically combo strike i guess which really ain't so bad with deadly reach/foresight
I have tried doing the Submission mantra/SW 3 spirit regen rune variation also, but I think I like this one better.
A couple vital things the gear/skills don't tell you though:
When I first get into the game, I switch 7SS to Blind/Faith. I hit a mob with Deadly Reach Foresight for the damage buff, then I cast blind, then I start sweeping wind (I have about 292k dps at that time). As soon as SW is casted, I switch my Andy Visage to my spirit regen Inna's Radiance, as well as my damage amulet to a Xeph spirit regen/crit hit chance amulet. Then, as soon as the blind cooldown is over, I cast sweeping wind so that it doesn't end (4 pieces Inna makes it free considering my spirit regen) while I do a fast switch of the Blind/Faith to 7SS. Then I start my run. For the rest of the game, I pop elites with 7SS and simply 'whirlwind' everything else with SW/cyclone and tempest rush. I try to keep my Foresight buff too. I think this is optimal, because every white mob dies instantly at MP1 when I tempest over them having that SW locked at 292k dps, and so do the elites with the 7SS.
So, if you weren't doing the Blind/Faith switch, you should really think about it. Make sure you have 4 Inna pieces so that you keep it for the rest of your run. Also get some pickup radius (I chose my Inna to have spirit regen and pickup) since you are always running with Tailwind.
If you don't want to try this build because you think 2 handers suck, don't knock it before you try it. It's far more efficient, and the attack speed is not important since you are always attacking with Tailwind or 7SS. Also, my Skorn only costed me 2 million, so it's very much worth it for the dps.
I have tried doing the Submission mantra/SW 3 spirit regen rune variation also, but I think I like this one better.
A couple vital things the gear/skills don't tell you though:
When I first get into the game, I switch 7SS to Blind/Faith. I hit a mob with Deadly Reach Foresight for the damage buff, then I cast blind, then I start sweeping wind (I have about 292k dps at that time). As soon as SW is casted, I switch my Andy Visage to my spirit regen Inna's Radiance, as well as my damage amulet to a Xeph spirit regen/crit hit chance amulet. Then, as soon as the blind cooldown is over, I cast sweeping wind so that it doesn't end (4 pieces Inna makes it free considering my spirit regen) while I do a fast switch of the Blind/Faith to 7SS. Then I start my run. For the rest of the game, I pop elites with 7SS and simply 'whirlwind' everything else with SW/cyclone and tempest rush. I try to keep my Foresight buff too. I think this is optimal, because every white mob dies instantly at MP1 when I tempest over them having that SW locked at 292k dps, and so do the elites with the 7SS.
So, if you weren't doing the Blind/Faith switch, you should really think about it. Make sure you have 4 Inna pieces so that you keep it for the rest of your run. Also get some pickup radius (I chose my Inna to have spirit regen and pickup) since you are always running with Tailwind.
If you don't want to try this build because you think 2 handers suck, don't knock it before you try it. It's far more efficient, and the attack speed is not important since you are always attacking with Tailwind or 7SS. Also, my Skorn only costed me 2 million, so it's very much worth it for the dps.
Doesn´t SW snapshot your dps everytime new when you recast it or does it keep the initial buff as long as it´s on 3 stacks?
I'm not a fan of swapping gear / skills just to "snapshot" SW, and don't really want to track a SW buff in the corner to know when I have to mash SW again via Inna 4pc. If SW drops, I'm not gonna groan or put my snapshot gear back on. I'm just gonna walk slowly towards the next mob and hit them, and fast with my in-efficent 1handers! When a Legendary/Set drops, I'm gonna ID it right away and let SW drop too. The difference in items/xp/etc between MP0 and MP1 isn't enough to make me want to upgrade (via AH camping or whatnot) to sufficient dps to make it worth it. As this point, it's grinding XP until pvp I think!
Does Tempest Rush still hit for peanuts? Or is it actually halfway decent in MP0/1? The last time I used it, before they buffed it, it was hitting for pretty much nothing.
On November 04 2012 06:20 seiferoth10 wrote: Does Tempest Rush still hit for peanuts? Or is it actually halfway decent in MP0/1? The last time I used it, before they buffed it, it was hitting for pretty much nothing.
It still hits for pretty much nothing. Mobs in mp0 have pretty much no health though, so it works.
Keeping sw up after a gear swap is supereasy as well, just mash it all the time between packs/while looting (ooh a legendary, time to refresh sw!)
I have tried doing the Submission mantra/SW 3 spirit regen rune variation also, but I think I like this one better.
A couple vital things the gear/skills don't tell you though:
When I first get into the game, I switch 7SS to Blind/Faith. I hit a mob with Deadly Reach Foresight for the damage buff, then I cast blind, then I start sweeping wind (I have about 292k dps at that time). As soon as SW is casted, I switch my Andy Visage to my spirit regen Inna's Radiance, as well as my damage amulet to a Xeph spirit regen/crit hit chance amulet. Then, as soon as the blind cooldown is over, I cast sweeping wind so that it doesn't end (4 pieces Inna makes it free considering my spirit regen) while I do a fast switch of the Blind/Faith to 7SS. Then I start my run. For the rest of the game, I pop elites with 7SS and simply 'whirlwind' everything else with SW/cyclone and tempest rush. I try to keep my Foresight buff too. I think this is optimal, because every white mob dies instantly at MP1 when I tempest over them having that SW locked at 292k dps, and so do the elites with the 7SS.
So, if you weren't doing the Blind/Faith switch, you should really think about it. Make sure you have 4 Inna pieces so that you keep it for the rest of your run. Also get some pickup radius (I chose my Inna to have spirit regen and pickup) since you are always running with Tailwind.
If you don't want to try this build because you think 2 handers suck, don't knock it before you try it. It's far more efficient, and the attack speed is not important since you are always attacking with Tailwind or 7SS. Also, my Skorn only costed me 2 million, so it's very much worth it for the dps.
Doesn´t SW snapshot your dps everytime new when you recast it or does it keep the initial buff as long as it´s on 3 stacks?
It keeps it whether you have 1 or 2 or 3 stack as long as it doesn't expire and you recast it. This is why this is optimal: you cast it once with all your buffs and damage gear, then switch and just steadily cast it every 5 second until the end. If you were to lose it, just recast it with your gear but you won't have blind. If you find a frenzy shrine, it's pretty good too.
On November 04 2012 06:11 Burrfoot wrote: I'm not a fan of swapping gear / skills just to "snapshot" SW, and don't really want to track a SW buff in the corner to know when I have to mash SW again via Inna 4pc. If SW drops, I'm not gonna groan or put my snapshot gear back on. I'm just gonna walk slowly towards the next mob and hit them, and fast with my in-efficent 1handers! When a Legendary/Set drops, I'm gonna ID it right away and let SW drop too. The difference in items/xp/etc between MP0 and MP1 isn't enough to make me want to upgrade (via AH camping or whatnot) to sufficient dps to make it worth it. As this point, it's grinding XP until pvp I think!
Yeah, I understand why you'd be put off, but you don't have to look at it, you just steadily press SW every 4-5 seconds to be sure it doesn't expire. It makes the runs much faster, and XP gain much better. You can identify a legendary right after a recast too.
And I choose to do MP1 because it's as fast as MP0 for me, pretty much.
I guess the main difference between TR builds are those that have enough snapshot dps to use TR+SW to actually kill mobs, and those that just use TR to travel between packs and FoT+SW them down. Using 2 fast 1handers, I can't sustain TR forever, so end up doing the latter. Even with snapshot, I'd need two passes to kill white mobs anyways, so I'd just prefer to stop and punch some faces.
I did try using a pretty nice LL Flying Dragon that dropped for me (and again when an even nicer one dropped), but just didn't like the 2h speed and my dps wasnt high enough to sustain as most of my gear has LoH. >_<
I did spend a bunch of time to find a cold damage SoJ, and realized that was a complete waste of time!
On November 05 2012 08:54 Burrfoot wrote: I guess the main difference between TR builds are those that have enough snapshot dps to use TR+SW to actually kill mobs, and those that just use TR to travel between packs and FoT+SW them down. Using 2 fast 1handers, I can't sustain TR forever, so end up doing the latter. Even with snapshot, I'd need two passes to kill white mobs anyways, so I'd just prefer to stop and punch some faces.
I did try using a pretty nice LL Flying Dragon that dropped for me (and again when an even nicer one dropped), but just didn't like the 2h speed and my dps wasnt high enough to sustain as most of my gear has LoH. >_<
I did spend a bunch of time to find a cold damage SoJ, and realized that was a complete waste of time!
Using a good skorn(I got 179 CD 1407 dps for 4 mil, dex skorns cost nothing without lifesteal) helps a ton for TR/SW builds because it makes SW hit quite a bit harder. Between TR and SW I kill anything with under about 130k hp in one pass. I think the goal really is to get TR's cost down to sub 5 spirit per second, at which point between attacking elites and picking up loot it's enough to almost infinitely tempest rush. I do fine with 500 LoH as my only sustain right up until I hit a reflect damage elite, and depending on my reaction time on mashing my heal+potion, I sometimes live long enough to TR away to the nearest health globe before gibbing myself.
I think snapshotting and using TR as travel+weak AoE clear both have merits. Snapshotting probably lets you +1 MP to 1 or 2 depending on gear while still being able to instaclear weak mobs by running past, while TR as travel+weak clear is less strenuous(no need to hit SW every 5 seconds after snapshotting, and very little punishment for having SW fall off). The fastest way to clear though definitely relies on passive AoE to clean up though, using TR for movement. I think monks using variations of a TR/SW build clear only slightly slower than a barb on lower MP's, although obviously WW barbs definitely can clear faster on higher MP's.
I have tried doing the Submission mantra/SW 3 spirit regen rune variation also, but I think I like this one better.
A couple vital things the gear/skills don't tell you though:
When I first get into the game, I switch 7SS to Blind/Faith. I hit a mob with Deadly Reach Foresight for the damage buff, then I cast blind, then I start sweeping wind (I have about 292k dps at that time). As soon as SW is casted, I switch my Andy Visage to my spirit regen Inna's Radiance, as well as my damage amulet to a Xeph spirit regen/crit hit chance amulet. Then, as soon as the blind cooldown is over, I cast sweeping wind so that it doesn't end (4 pieces Inna makes it free considering my spirit regen) while I do a fast switch of the Blind/Faith to 7SS. Then I start my run. For the rest of the game, I pop elites with 7SS and simply 'whirlwind' everything else with SW/cyclone and tempest rush. I try to keep my Foresight buff too. I think this is optimal, because every white mob dies instantly at MP1 when I tempest over them having that SW locked at 292k dps, and so do the elites with the 7SS.
So, if you weren't doing the Blind/Faith switch, you should really think about it. Make sure you have 4 Inna pieces so that you keep it for the rest of your run. Also get some pickup radius (I chose my Inna to have spirit regen and pickup) since you are always running with Tailwind.
If you don't want to try this build because you think 2 handers suck, don't knock it before you try it. It's far more efficient, and the attack speed is not important since you are always attacking with Tailwind or 7SS. Also, my Skorn only costed me 2 million, so it's very much worth it for the dps.
Doesn´t SW snapshot your dps everytime new when you recast it or does it keep the initial buff as long as it´s on 3 stacks?
It keeps it whether you have 1 or 2 or 3 stack as long as it doesn't expire and you recast it. This is why this is optimal: you cast it once with all your buffs and damage gear, then switch and just steadily cast it every 5 second until the end. If you were to lose it, just recast it with your gear but you won't have blind. If you find a frenzy shrine, it's pretty good too.
Actually, the Frenzy Shrine doesn't matter since Sweeping Winds is based off weapon damage, not dps (the reason some ppl snapshot a 2-hander).
Also, little known fact but Blind is almost always a >30% dmg boost, because what it actually does is add 30% of your paperdoll dps to your weapon dmg; so the faster your weapon the higher the damage bonus.
It's a really weird bug (I have to assume that's what it is), but it's why SW cast after blind can feel like it's twice as strong than SW cast w/o blind.
If you get a 'bad' sweeping winds snapshot don't forget that you can click the icon off for a fast recast. Sometimes if it falls off before the cd on blind is ready; I'll recast SW anyways, then click it off and recast again when blind is available.
On November 06 2012 04:38 Wuster wrote: Actually, the Frenzy Shrine doesn't matter since Sweeping Winds is based off weapon damage, not dps (the reason some ppl snapshot a 2-hander).
Pretty sure this is wrong. SW is based off dps not weapon damage (dont believe every tool-tip is correct!) so I don't see why sweeping winds wouldn't be better off snap shot with a shrine. I know some folks did testing with the Flying Dragon proc and it came out ahead, but wasn't worth the trouble or some such.
On November 06 2012 04:38 Wuster wrote: Also, little known fact but Blind is almost always a >30% dmg boost, because what it actually does is add 30% of your paperdoll dps to your weapon dmg; so the faster your weapon the higher the damage bonus.
The (easier to understand) actual bonus is +30% * Attacks per second, so IAS is a decent stat for snapshotting, not so much for keeping TR cost down. So for example, if you do 50k dps with 2 attacks per second, your dps will be 50,000 * (1 + 0.30 * 2.0) = 80k dps for 3 seconds.
On November 06 2012 04:38 Wuster wrote: Actually, the Frenzy Shrine doesn't matter since Sweeping Winds is based off weapon damage, not dps (the reason some ppl snapshot a 2-hander).
Pretty sure this is wrong. SW is based off dps not weapon damage (dont believe every tool-tip is correct!) so I don't see why sweeping winds wouldn't be better off snap shot with a shrine. I know some folks did testing with the Flying Dragon proc and it came out ahead, but wasn't worth the trouble or some such.
On November 06 2012 04:38 Wuster wrote: Also, little known fact but Blind is almost always a >30% dmg boost, because what it actually does is add 30% of your paperdoll dps to your weapon dmg; so the faster your weapon the higher the damage bonus.
The actual bonus is 30% * Attacks per second, so IAS is a decent stat for snapshotting, not so much for keeping TR cost down.
I could have sworn I saw a couple guys talk about how SW didn't scale with attack speed; but I just plugged it into a damage calculator (which I'll assume is correct) and it is scaling with attack speed. So I'll take that back, Frenzy shrines will buff SW too.
Also, it always annoyed me that TR wasn't normalized like WW was for Barbs. But then again that assumes Blizz would normalize TR's channel cost towards the 2H cost and not the DW cost if that makes sense.
Hi, I was wondering I maybe one of you guys could give some low level advise on which skills to pick for my HC Monk which I finally managed to get to Inferno (yay )
Generally I'd like to slowly progress in Inferno Act I without dying (up until Skeleton King I guess), speed doesn't really matter. I'm unsure about which primary attack to use (I went with Crippling Wave/Mangle up to Inferno) and which Mantra. I guess going with Mantra of Convition (Overawe) would boost my damage quite a bit but I'm afraid to be left with 111 LoH and 207 Life/s regen only ...
For primary attack I like Deadly Reach (Keen Eye) for kiting but I think most Monks use FoT ... which one should I pick?
I'm thinking about sellingmy barb (around 400 m) to make I a monk for farming low MPs door around that price mark do monks clear as fast as ww barb? The gear seems much cheaper
EPT
)
