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On May 23 2012 16:44 Tobberoth wrote:
I'm pretty sure that as soon as Blizzard takes notice of the crit build (seems to not be too wellknown yet), they will probably patch magic weapon venom to not allow crits, which will nerf the build significantly (though I still think it will be a strong build, enough enemies and you'll still get enough cooldown reduction). I mean, with magic weapon venom, you can literally just spam diamond armor through frozen enemies, I've been able to reapply diamond armor like 4 times in one freeze, which makes you completely unkillable even though you're stuck.
Without force armor reduction, you will still get one shotted by ranged mobs in inferno doing more damage than your whole HP AND diamond skin.
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I'm relieved that they fixed it, too much QQ from other classes that I/we only farming inferno because of the armor when it actually is because of skills with kiting and such.
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On May 23 2012 16:48 yanot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 16:44 Tobberoth wrote:
I'm pretty sure that as soon as Blizzard takes notice of the crit build (seems to not be too wellknown yet), they will probably patch magic weapon venom to not allow crits, which will nerf the build significantly (though I still think it will be a strong build, enough enemies and you'll still get enough cooldown reduction). I mean, with magic weapon venom, you can literally just spam diamond armor through frozen enemies, I've been able to reapply diamond armor like 4 times in one freeze, which makes you completely unkillable even though you're stuck. Without force armor reduction, you will still get one shotted by ranged mobs in inferno doing more damage than your whole HP AND diamond skin.
Not a problem, the crit build works fine with vitality as well, it will just be harder to find good gear for it.
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So how did they fix it exactly?
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2012 16:04 Appendix wrote:
It seems they have done a hidden nerf on FA during the maintenance. Was experimenting with a single inferno act 2 Bone Warrior which hits me for about 10k dmg. If I have a few vitality items to boost my hp to 13k, FA works as usual. If I removed all vita to so I get about 4k hp, the skeleton one hits me despite of FA. So it seems it doesn´t protect against 1hit KOs anymore.
It´s a shame, I used it but did not abuse it and the protection against onehits was the useful part. I would much rather see the solution that if the 35% limit was broken, the armor would dispel meaning you would have to recast it. Since there is like a 1 second cooldown on the spell, it wouldn´t be abusable the same way, and even if it was, just prolong cd to 2 or 3 seconds.
EDIT: after some further testing, I have no clue what they have done. It works, but it kind of doesn´t? If I'm hit for more than my hp I die, but when it seems to work it doesn´t limit the damage to 35% either, it takes more. When I have 13541 hp and FA active, and I am hit by a single slow missile from the bees in act 2, I get the white "absorbed text" but it still does 7168 damage, which equals to ~53% of my hp.
I got a bit curious what they have done so I did some more testing
Ok, so I got this, with force armor activated, one bee projectile
my hp -> dmg received / dmg as % of max hp
4721 -> onehit / 100%
8956 -> onehit / 100%
11056 -> 8905 / 81%
13541 -> 7168 / 53%
14276 -> 6703 / 47%
15291 -> 7354 / 48%
15851 -> 5548 / 35%
15921 -> 5572 / 35%
17636 -> 6173 / 35%
19946 -> 6981 / 35%
23796 -> 8324 / 35%
26176 -> 9175 / 35%
The damage of the attack without FA was about 22-24k, and also worth to note that when it did 35% dmg, it always did the exact same number of damage, ie when with 19946 hp it always did exactly 6981 damage, whereas when the attack did more than 35% the damage would vary. It seems FA works but there is a lower limit for your vita based on something.
EDIT: it also scales with harder creeps, meaning higher level/harder hitting monsters has a higher threshold where the FA functions as normal. One of those slitherins in the dahlgur oasis had no problems 2-hitting me with 28k hp
Basically this is a big nerf to diamond skin too. Those 20k of crystal skin will melt like nothing if you have to keep your vita high.
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The critbuild is REALLY nice. I only got 8% crit at the moment but arreat core, azmodan and the beginning of act 4 were absolutly no problem in hell :D
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It's silly though, there really isn't any huge problem with the force armor per say. Should be no other reason they put the life regeneration on items in anyways. What is problematic however is the crit build imo and especially with the no vita build, without the crit build the no vita build should be just another viable build as it's not that broken. I think i'll just try to run 15851 hp and the crit build from now on for a variety of reasons, also in conjunction with crit's restoring arcane power on the orb/helmet/weapon. What they just should have done is just change the lightning thing which crits all the time.
Edit: Hmm so the damage isn't capped on normal monsters then but on elites. So then the crit/constant diamond skin should still work. Maybe not as effectively as before but it would be far better than any other build still I think.
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u sure it was nerfed? 100%?
would blizzard really do a btich move and do a hidden balance patch
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On May 23 2012 17:33 NMx.StyX wrote:
u sure it was nerfed? 100%?
would blizzard really do a btich move and do a hidden balance patch
Of course, it's not the first time.
/Longtime WoW player...
But also you can read more about force armor and a lot more discussions @ diablofans.com Wizard section
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On May 23 2012 17:33 NMx.StyX wrote:
u sure it was nerfed? 100%?
would blizzard really do a btich move and do a hidden balance patch
Yes I tried farming the mini bosses in act 4 inferno and they all one shot me.
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It's definitely changed. Granted I havent screwed with act 4 yet (lol late to the party -- shoulda done this earlier today =P), raising hp from 14k to 20k seemed to have worked. I was able to clear from the beginning to diablo, including killing izual.
edit:
eh, diablo damage seems normal. too bad I don't have a super weapon to make it go faster, lol
Though getting trapped in the cage is insta death basically.
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As long as it remains unchanged against actual unavoidable stuff I don't really give a shit about this change. Only used it to farm gear while waiting for our barbarian to reroll hunter  . As stated by Appendix, how much it reduces damage seems to depend on your vitality, the level of the mob and which attack it used.
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I'm playing right now. As far as I can tell, the above information about if you have to little life, it will 1 shot you seems to be true.
Basically, you need to have 20k+ hp in order for it to work like normal, at least for me on A4 inferno / diablo. Never done it until now, but I had to up my hp just to be able to clear my way to the diablo waypoint.
However, diamond skin interacts with it like usual. Diamond skin would still survive multiple absorbed swipes from izual.
Now i need more life on hit 
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On May 23 2012 18:32 Mysticesper wrote:I'm playing right now. As far as I can tell, the above information about if you have to little life, it will 1 shot you seems to be true. Basically, you need to have 20k+ hp in order for it to work like normal, at least for me on A4 inferno / diablo. Never done it until now, but I had to up my hp just to be able to clear my way to the diablo waypoint. However, diamond skin interacts with it like usual. Diamond skin would still survive multiple absorbed swipes from izual. Now i need more life on hit
sadly it would be a nerf to diamond skin too because attacks do more damage when you have more health with force armor on
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On May 23 2012 19:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 18:32 Mysticesper wrote:I'm playing right now. As far as I can tell, the above information about if you have to little life, it will 1 shot you seems to be true. Basically, you need to have 20k+ hp in order for it to work like normal, at least for me on A4 inferno / diablo. Never done it until now, but I had to up my hp just to be able to clear my way to the diablo waypoint. However, diamond skin interacts with it like usual. Diamond skin would still survive multiple absorbed swipes from izual. Now i need more life on hit sadly it would be a nerf to diamond skin too because attacks do more damage when you have more health with force armor on
My lowest hp pool was only 14k at the very least, as i was trying to acquire the gear, now I'm back up to 20k. So for me, it wasn't that noticable.
Obviously with 4700 life, the amount of hits diamond skin lasts for is dramatically different. The big thing is the life leech / regen needed to get back up.
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On May 23 2012 19:22 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 19:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 23 2012 18:32 Mysticesper wrote:I'm playing right now. As far as I can tell, the above information about if you have to little life, it will 1 shot you seems to be true. Basically, you need to have 20k+ hp in order for it to work like normal, at least for me on A4 inferno / diablo. Never done it until now, but I had to up my hp just to be able to clear my way to the diablo waypoint. However, diamond skin interacts with it like usual. Diamond skin would still survive multiple absorbed swipes from izual. Now i need more life on hit sadly it would be a nerf to diamond skin too because attacks do more damage when you have more health with force armor on My lowest hp pool was only 14k at the very least, as i was trying to acquire the gear, now I'm back up to 20k. So for me, it wasn't that noticable. Obviously with 4700 life, the amount of hits diamond skin lasts for is dramatically different.
Yeah, I was at 4900 health and so with diamond skin that hits for like 1700 on a 21k shield. =(
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On May 23 2012 19:24 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 19:22 Mysticesper wrote:On May 23 2012 19:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 23 2012 18:32 Mysticesper wrote:I'm playing right now. As far as I can tell, the above information about if you have to little life, it will 1 shot you seems to be true. Basically, you need to have 20k+ hp in order for it to work like normal, at least for me on A4 inferno / diablo. Never done it until now, but I had to up my hp just to be able to clear my way to the diablo waypoint. However, diamond skin interacts with it like usual. Diamond skin would still survive multiple absorbed swipes from izual. Now i need more life on hit sadly it would be a nerf to diamond skin too because attacks do more damage when you have more health with force armor on My lowest hp pool was only 14k at the very least, as i was trying to acquire the gear, now I'm back up to 20k. So for me, it wasn't that noticable. Obviously with 4700 life, the amount of hits diamond skin lasts for is dramatically different. Yeah, I was at 4900 health and so with diamond skin that hits for like 1700 on a 21k shield. =(
Will be interesting to see the official notes sometime later today to see what exactly they changed. Though it does appear that if the hit is >100% of your hp, force armor is broken through. IF that is all they changed, I can see that being acceptable. While it is fun doing zero-hp, freeze-crit smash builds, it clearly wasn't intended. Now doing normal vit, freeze-crit smash builds -- it's just as fun 
I almost feel like the beta test was a waste of time, especially since a limited team of testers can only do so much as we were stuck in act 1 part 1 normal.
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EPT
