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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
Here's a test that would be better, tho still not great: Have *one* of them, monk or barb, run same route for 10 hours on MP0, then MP1, etc., all the way through MP10. That marathon thing is not a good test plan, too many variables, not to mention no controls | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
Here's a couple names: RulerEric Shandlar They make a lot of useful posts on the bnet Wiz forum. I'd suggest starting there for the best information with actual data supporting claims | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
The TL;DR is: MP0 for Act 3, and MP1 for Acts 1 and 2, are awesome. Everything else pretty much sucks. http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?840969-Choosing-the-Right-Monster-Power-Level-For-Farming edit: i dont see where he considers the bonus item drop. | ||
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Eschaton
United States1245 Posts
On January 16 2013 04:45 Infernal_dream wrote: Did none of you guys who are talking about mp levels see the 12 hour marathon run between a monk barb and wiz? The barb and monk got the same amount of drops despite the barb being on mp5 and the monk on 10. There's really no reason to go to a higher mp for "loot". If the speeds of every class were the same then yes, but they're not. CM gets better as MP goes up, but do barbs? If a high dps barb is 1-shotting MP5 mobs (as in the marathon) that is going to be way more efficient than doing MP10 no matter what. CM doesn't 1-shot anything, ever, because the attack phase requires "wind-up". Therefore the MP "sweet spot" will be different for every class/build. As marigold said, you need a dataset including each MP to compare classes. You'll get a distribution of drop frequencies, and the peak will be different depending on the class. For barb it is probably MP4-6 whereas for CM wiz it is probably 7-9. EditL: A very nice number to have for these runs, and for some reason to my knowledge not included in the marathon (I mean really...) in addition to legendary drop #s, is the amount of elites/mobs killed. I want to see how the actual drop rate per mob changes given the extra item %. | ||
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Eschaton
United States1245 Posts
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ximae
181 Posts
On January 16 2013 04:45 Infernal_dream wrote: Did none of you guys who are talking about mp levels see the 12 hour marathon run between a monk barb and wiz? The barb and monk got the same amount of drops despite the barb being on mp5 and the monk on 10. There's really no reason to go to a higher mp for "loot". so at most that prooves what i was saying, efficency is either low mp where you trash everything very fast or very high mp and benefit from bonus item. and even then id like to see how many 6 affix rares the barb got and how many the monk.... im pretty sure the monk would win that one. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:04 dAPhREAk wrote: lack of sources vs lack of sources. who to believe? ;-) none, do your own testing and statistics and find out your own conclusion, prob is its not grona be reliable till ur p100 and your base mf is the same on both cases. ex: a month ago id swear by full mf archon speed runs for loot (xp is outa the question) but lately as my mf is getting almost capped in sns gear, also way more efficent with it too, my perception has changed. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 16 2013 07:14 ximae wrote: none, do your own testing and statistics and find out your own conclusion, prob is its not grona be reliable till ur p100 and your base mf is the same on both cases. ex: a month ago id swear by full mf archon speed runs for loot (xp is outa the question) but lately as my mf is getting almost capped in sns gear, also way more efficent with it too, my perception has changed. so, you tell me im wrong, and then you say not to believe you. okay..... | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
In this case the scientists are guy like RulerEric, running many different MPs and builds, trying to optimize loot rates. You can read what he finds and try it out for yourself. Obviously this is contingent on having access to all sorts of gear to accommodate farming efficient on low-high MP, which is a roadblock for many. That being said, it's not fair to claim things or disagree without a full perspective including not only jut low mp archon experience but also high mp cm experience | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:36 FallDownMarigold wrote: Think of it this way, If you perform the same unbiased testing that players like RulerEric and Shandlar and many others have done, it is extremely likely you will come to their conclusions. Sort of like how it works in science -- there's not much room for bullshitting because eventually your claims and their experiments will be replicated and either confirmed or thrown out. In this case the scientists are guy like RulerEric, running many different MPs and builds, trying to optimize loot rates. You can read what he finds and try it out for yourself. Obviously this is contingent on having access to all sorts of gear to accommodate farming efficient on low-high MP, which is a roadblock for many. That being said, it's not fair to claim things or disagree without a full perspective including not only jut low mp archon experience but also high mp cm experience The best MP level is one you can one shot all white mobs and burn elites in under 5-10 seconds. You can run a test 100 times. RNG is called RNG for a reason. There's nothing guaranteed in these runs (other than at least 1 yellow per elite at mp10). Law of averages won't work because you can get an extremely lucky mp1 run and an extremely unlucky mp9 that's going to skew the results. While the chances of it happening many times over aren't good it still can. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:18 dAPhREAk wrote: so, you tell me im wrong, and then you say not to believe you. okay..... i said wrong to what u were saying high mp was not good, specially the bonus item not being noticeable, it is very good at least for me. but test for yourself what is better for you. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:36 FallDownMarigold wrote: Think of it this way, If you perform the same unbiased testing that players like RulerEric and Shandlar and many others have done, it is extremely likely you will come to their conclusions. Sort of like how it works in science -- there's not much room for bullshitting because eventually your claims and their experiments will be replicated and either confirmed or thrown out. In this case the scientists are guy like RulerEric, running many different MPs and builds, trying to optimize loot rates. You can read what he finds and try it out for yourself. Obviously this is contingent on having access to all sorts of gear to accommodate farming efficient on low-high MP, which is a roadblock for many. That being said, it's not fair to claim things or disagree without a full perspective including not only jut low mp archon experience but also high mp cm experience i cited a guy who said mp0 is the best and backed it up with tests. you keep throwing out names, but dont refer anyone to anything. can you give us some links, or is your response just "do it yourself?" im not going to wade through some guy's post history with the hope of finding something. i looked up shandlar and magic the gathering popped up. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:48 ximae wrote: i said wrong to what u were saying high mp was not good, specially the bonus item not being noticeable, it is very good at least for me. but test for yourself what is better for you. i didnt say it wasnt good. i said the bonus item was negligible. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:40 Infernal_dream wrote: The best MP level is one you can one shot all white mobs and burn elites in under 5-10 seconds. You can run a test 100 times. RNG is called RNG for a reason. There's nothing guaranteed in these runs (other than at least 1 yellow per elite at mp10). Law of averages won't work because you can get an extremely lucky mp1 run and an extremely unlucky mp9 that's going to skew the results. While the chances of it happening many times over aren't good it still can. thats why u cant base it in doing couple runs each, its x hours of doing x runs and see the results. people there are giving like 10-20 hrs of run time per type of run, not just a couple runs, statistics will even out the rng. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
On January 16 2013 09:51 dAPhREAk wrote: i didnt say it wasnt good. i said the bonus item was negligible. which it isnt. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
well, your advice is not to trust anyone without sources so im going to assume i shouldnt trust you. unless you or falldownmarigold would like to unveil this remarkable information you're basing your opinions on so the rest of us could look at it. | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
btw i dont have sources with backed up info of my runs, i dont write down all my stuff. i just have over 800hr of experience with my wizzy playing both setups, u can trust me or u cannot, up to you. but what i do recomend is that u test it out for your self. thats what i did non intentionally just hrs upon hrs of farming both setups, which i still use as i go braindead if i just play one style and came upon the same conclusions as them. | ||
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DODswe4
Sweden2157 Posts
On January 15 2013 04:39 ximae wrote: depends at what speed ur clearing the same content in mp8-10, but legs come out of drops not kills, so it doesnt matter if you are doing the same run and killing 2x more stuff if its dropping 3x less stuff. I run both setups so im not biased too one or other i do what gives me better results, and lately its mp8 sns, wasnt the case 15 paragon levels ago though, also got better gear tbh. Id do the math for you but i dont have enough time now, ill just give u a link where we were having this discussion in battle.net somewhere around there are calculations on the bonus item vs fast runs. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7416065126?page=1 http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7416065126?page=7#131 another one. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592910129?page=1 quote of post with hes sources I think | ||
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