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On September 07 2012 00:16 subzer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 16:13 Azzur wrote:On September 06 2012 15:09 subzer0 wrote:
Is act 1 of inferno just a big joke? I cleared it with ease, even got speed achievement on butcher (not that it matters), and I have pretty bad gear. What do you consider "bad gear"? When D3 was first released, the definition would be very different to now - because of gear inflation, low-end gear is probably sufficient to beat Inferno. I estimate all you need is around 3 mil to clear Inferno - I'm pulling out fake numbers but I have a feeling my estimate is on the high end. yeah, thats probably the case. I have a mediocre 1k DPS crossbow and a bunch of high level 50 gear. I just remember all the devs saying at launch how inferno was going to be so impossibly hard and its been a joke so far.
Lolz. When I started Inferno after launch, I was very, very, very happy to finally find a bow with 600 dps. You are way, way, way better equipped than anybody that started Inferno after release.
I even remember my bow being better than pretty much anything on the AH that day, since I hit Inferno very, very early... The funny thing is even if one does not use the AH he will most prob finde very good items before hitting Inferno, since the drop tables for Hell A3+A4/early Inferno changed so much... The best you could find in Inferno A1 was ilvl 61 items, 1k DPS on a bow/cbow was completely unheard of at the moment that I hit Inferno.
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On September 07 2012 00:14 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 15:04 Azzur wrote:On September 05 2012 14:47 subzer0 wrote:On September 05 2012 14:43 Azzur wrote:On September 05 2012 14:34 subzer0 wrote:
dang >_<
that crit bonus with archery is just silly. thanks for the advice. The reason being is that crossbows have a lower damage range and hence higher inherent DPS. not quite understanding this exactly... For example, lets compare 2 hypothetical "typical" weapons that have roughly an equal cost: - Crossbow: speed = 1.1, damage = 900 - 1400, DPS = 1265 - Bow: speed = 1.4, damage = 400 - 1300, DPS = 1165 Obviously, I'm using arbitrary numbers, but for an equal cost weapon, crossbows will have a higher DPS. This is because bows have a high damage spread (e.g. see 400 - 1300 vs 900 - 1400). Because their DPS is lower, it just makes them worser weapons. My point is that for the discussion of crossbows vs bows to be interesting, the bow DPS will need to be equal to the crossbow. Right now, it's a no contest. You're right, but it's a little more complicated than that because of the Archery passive. If we look at which weapon is best assuming equal weapon DPS (which obviously isn't the case, as you pointed out), it looks like this: ![[image loading]](http://i.stack.imgur.com/1chBX.png) This makes logical sense: at high crit chances but (relatively) low crit damage, the +50% crit damage from 2h xbow makes it best, at low crit chance but high crit damage 1h xbow is best, and in cases where the two stats are fairly well-balanced, the overall 15% damage bonus from bow wins out. If we normalize that graph based on how average DPS rolls go on each weapon type, though, crossbows begin to dominate: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yRmSv.png) (sorry about the shitty formatting) This was done by taking the first graph and factoring in the average DPS of the top 5 10m gold weapons of each type, so it gives a slightly better sense of what's actually going on. Obviously, crossbows are the clear favorite for nearly any feasible gearset, but it's still worthwhile to take the others into consideration, especially if you have some sort of funky stats. It's also worth mentioning that 1h xbows can roll crazy amounts of crit damage which makes things weird but that's for people who are dropping hundreds and hundreds of millions on their gear so I don't know how relevant it is.
I reckon graphs like this, and the playstyle of faster attack vs slower attack gives interesting choices. But all that is reduced to non relevance because the DPS of crossbows and bows are not equal. Hence I reckon blizzard should buff bows (and 1h xbow) to make their DPS equals to crossbows.
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I just don't understand why even with the knowledge that xbow is basically the only viable choice at higher gear levels because of the superior weapon dps, 1.04 brought an even greater disparity through the new legendaries. Its like they weren't even thinking at all, and the devs wonder why people don't have much faith in them?
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956
Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills.
I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan.
Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds?
Thanks.
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On September 07 2012 06:13 jetburger wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills. I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan. Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds? Thanks.
You have way more HP and AR than you actually need, imo (someone's beaten Diablo with 7k HP!). Demon Hunters survive generally by killing things quickly and avoiding damage with vault/SS/gloom/etc. Sac some of those defensive stats to try to get your DPS up into the fifties and sixties, and you'll have better luck.
I reckon graphs like this, and the playstyle of faster attack vs slower attack gives interesting choices. But all that is reduced to non relevance because the DPS of crossbows and bows are not equal. Hence I reckon blizzard should buff bows (and 1h xbow) to make their DPS equals to crossbows.
I think they actually might have buffed 1h xbows since 1.04 (I made that graph before it released), but I'm not totally sure. I agree that they should tweak the damage numbers a little bit, but it does make sense that 2h xbows have the best raw DPS, since faster weapons have other advantages (easier kiting, faster attack animation makes it easier to dodge projectiles, etc.) and there would be absolutely no reason to use a slower weapon if fast ones have the same DPS.
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On September 07 2012 06:13 jetburger wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills. I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan. Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds? Thanks.
You should be able to beat him with those stats. I beat him with about 25k dps and 20k health (back before they nerfed inferno).
Switch out bola for hungering and multi for smoke screen and use backup plan. I ended up ditching tactical in this fight for perfectionist as well just for extra disc in stage 2.
In stage 1 and 3 if you go in slow circles around the arena (without getting too close to the sides so he wont teleport and avoid the middle) he will just walk around following you, and you can spam hungering and kill him without ever having diablo get within your vision.
Stage 2 the hard part is the clones. If you can absorb enough with gloom just use that and kill them, if not use smoke screen and dodge his attack before it wears off. Then its the same thing go in circles avoiding any edges. Diablo is more aggressive and more unpredictable so disc management is key here. This is where smoke screen is handy incase he teleports you can gain some distance.
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On September 07 2012 06:13 jetburger wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills. I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan. Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds? Thanks.
Getting through with ToC prob not the best thing to have done really, awful gimmick is awful.
Penguin's covered the tactics. For dps, you should be able to get a new xbow pretty cheap these days, getting up to a 1k dps xbow will probably be the most dps for cost.
Edited for some outdated mind farts, sorry.
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On September 07 2012 06:44 Pengu1n wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:13 jetburger wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills. I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan. Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds? Thanks. You should be able to beat him with those stats. I beat him with about 25k dps and 20k health (back before they nerfed inferno). Switch out bola for hungering and multi for smoke screen and use backup plan. I ended up ditching tactical in this fight for perfectionist as well just for extra disc in stage 2. In stage 1 and 3 if you go in slow circles around the arena (without getting too close to the sides so he wont teleport and avoid the middle) he will just walk around following you, and you can spam hungering and kill him without ever having diablo get within your vision. Stage 2 the hard part is the clones. If you can absorb enough with gloom just use that and kill them, if not use smoke screen and dodge his attack before it wears off. Then its the same thing go in circles avoiding any edges. Diablo is more aggressive and more unpredictable so disc management is key here. This is where smoke screen is handy incase he teleports you can gain some distance.
This is good advice. I'd switch out rov for one of the cluster arrows also, I prefer loaded for bear. For stages 1 and 3 I did figure 8's around the place because you also have to avoid the bone prisons because going near one will cause diablo to teleport to you also, so I found figure 8's, moving from one side to the other while bone prisons are spawning made it easier to avoid rather than just circles. Phase 2 is the same thing besides its a little tighter in there and the shadow clones. I found there is more room to the north in phase 2 so try to round around circles up there and you have to watch the mini map for when diablo dissappears and pop gloom and unload on your shadow clone.
Edit - To add, Make sure you have full disc or enough disc and prep near the shadow clone 66 and 33% threshholds, just run diablo around in circles for a little bit if you have to. You will most likely need 1 or 2 smokescreens or glooms for your clone and then be careful when diablo teleports back in so you could easily use a full globe of disc.
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On September 07 2012 07:04 serum321 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:44 Pengu1n wrote:On September 07 2012 06:13 jetburger wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills. I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan. Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds? Thanks. You should be able to beat him with those stats. I beat him with about 25k dps and 20k health (back before they nerfed inferno). Switch out bola for hungering and multi for smoke screen and use backup plan. I ended up ditching tactical in this fight for perfectionist as well just for extra disc in stage 2. In stage 1 and 3 if you go in slow circles around the arena (without getting too close to the sides so he wont teleport and avoid the middle) he will just walk around following you, and you can spam hungering and kill him without ever having diablo get within your vision. Stage 2 the hard part is the clones. If you can absorb enough with gloom just use that and kill them, if not use smoke screen and dodge his attack before it wears off. Then its the same thing go in circles avoiding any edges. Diablo is more aggressive and more unpredictable so disc management is key here. This is where smoke screen is handy incase he teleports you can gain some distance. This is good advice. I'd switch out rov for one of the cluster arrows also, I prefer loaded for bear. For stages 1 and 3 I did figure 8's around the place because you also have to avoid the bone prisons because going near one will cause diablo to teleport to you also, so I found figure 8's, moving from one side to the other while bone prisons are spawning made it easier to avoid rather than just circles. Phase 2 is the same thing besides its a little tighter in there and the shadow clones. I found there is more room to the north in phase 2 so try to round around circles up there and you have to watch the mini map for when diablo dissappears and pop gloom and unload on your shadow clone. Edit - To add, Make sure you have full disc or enough disc and prep near the shadow clone 66 and 33% threshholds, just run diablo around in circles for a little bit if you have to. You will most likely need 1 or 2 smokescreens or glooms for your clone and then be careful when diablo teleports back in so you could easily use a full globe of disc.
He can keep RoV for the stun rune vs clones, people have said it works pretty well, and he doesn't have the gear to be efficient with cluster arrow anyways.
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Thanks, all. Using a mixture of all advice given, I've gotten closer than ever to beating Diablo. (Furthest I've gotten is almost killing the 2nd shadow clone of me.) I'm taking a break from trying for now 'cause I hit some lag spikes.
Changes I've made:
-bought more offensive bracers (200k) and xbow (275k)
-swapped pants with my monk, but then I found I got 1-shotted too often, so switched back to vitality pants
-changed amulet for more crit dmg
-changes skills for a kiting style instead of offensive ToCinders style, but I'm actually still using Cinders whenever I need to vault away, hoping he runs into it anyway; Tumble doesn't seem like it would help much
Questions:
-Is having both Gloom and Smoke Screen kind of redundant? Should I change one of them back to Rain of Veng or maybe Marked for Death?
-Any other gear changes you can suggest for cheap? Maybe belt or quiver?
(Damn Diablo is too tall! He teleports in and blocks me from clicking the Healing Well.)
Updated profile:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956
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On September 07 2012 06:24 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:13 jetburger wrote:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956Can anyone offer any advice for beating Inferno Diablo with my poor DH? (Hopefully by spending nothing or as little as possible.) I managed to work my way up to Diablo by abusing ToCinders offensively and dying a lot. Currently my strategy is to use Gloom and Cinders alot while trying to regain disc with other skills. I recently changed my chest armor to the one you see there. And only now as I'm writing this I realize that using Focused Mind with 45+ disc is kind of stupid. I guess I'll change to either Battle Scars or Backup Plan. Should I change some Amethysts for Emeralds? Thanks. You have way more HP and AR than you actually need, imo (someone's beaten Diablo with 7k HP!). Demon Hunters survive generally by killing things quickly and avoiding damage with vault/SS/gloom/etc. Sac some of those defensive stats to try to get your DPS up into the fifties and sixties, and you'll have better luck. Show nested quote +I reckon graphs like this, and the playstyle of faster attack vs slower attack gives interesting choices. But all that is reduced to non relevance because the DPS of crossbows and bows are not equal. Hence I reckon blizzard should buff bows (and 1h xbow) to make their DPS equals to crossbows. I think they actually might have buffed 1h xbows since 1.04 (I made that graph before it released), but I'm not totally sure. I agree that they should tweak the damage numbers a little bit, but it does make sense that 2h xbows have the best raw DPS, since faster weapons have other advantages (easier kiting, faster attack animation makes it easier to dodge projectiles, etc.) and there would be absolutely no reason to use a slower weapon if fast ones have the same DPS.
I bolded the section I'm replying to - I disagree with this - a slower weapon with the same DPS will do higher burst damage than a faster weapon. Hence, what I'm referring to as "interesting choices". Burst damage vs other advantages.
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On September 07 2012 08:29 jetburger wrote:Thanks, all. Using a mixture of all advice given, I've gotten closer than ever to beating Diablo. (Furthest I've gotten is almost killing the 2nd shadow clone of me.) I'm taking a break from trying for now 'cause I hit some lag spikes. Changes I've made: -bought more offensive bracers (200k) and xbow (275k) -swapped pants with my monk, but then I found I got 1-shotted too often, so switched back to vitality pants -changed amulet for more crit dmg -changes skills for a kiting style instead of offensive ToCinders style, but I'm actually still using Cinders whenever I need to vault away, hoping he runs into it anyway; Tumble doesn't seem like it would help much Questions: -Is having both Gloom and Smoke Screen kind of redundant? Should I change one of them back to Rain of Veng or maybe Marked for Death? -Any other gear changes you can suggest for cheap? Maybe belt or quiver? (Damn Diablo is too tall! He teleports in and blocks me from clicking the Healing Well.) Updated profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sblubs-1555/hero/3145956
The key to avoiding the teleport is to stay off the edges e.g. fissures on the ground. You can't always avoid the teleport so make sure you have a CD (SS or gloom) ready if he does it.
With the clones in phase 2, he summons them at 100%, 66% and 33% of health respectively, so you can time get ready for it, i.e. make sure you have as much hatred and disc as possible. To kill the clones, I suggest you use gloom and nuke them since you have the stats. You may need to use 2-3 glooms back-to-back.
Gloom and SS are useful together - Gloom for the majority of cases and SS for emergencies. However, it also works if you swap out SS, but I don't think it'll make so much of a difference. Also, if you're using gloom to kill the clones, I suggest you take bat instead of vault - this will help your hatred regen.
Lastly, if you're not already doing it, make sure you stutterstep, i.e. move-shoot-move-shoot after the attack animation using the shift key. This improves damage alot.
Other little tips is to wait out the cutscenes and don't skip them to allow all your resources to regen.
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With enough practice, you should be able to avoid most of his attacks without using SS or Gloom. Stage one and three, you can abuse the two crystals in the middle to block his projectiles.
Stage two, you basically want to treat Diablo himself as a rest period to have full Disc, Hatred and Preparation to take out your clones.
Ideally, you should only need SS to dodge his quick-dash and swipe (never trust the graphics...sometimes he hits regardless of how far away you are).
It took me about 10 tries to get his patterns down properly, but after that Diablo himself was never a threat.
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On September 07 2012 04:20 Ig wrote:
I just don't understand why even with the knowledge that xbow is basically the only viable choice at higher gear levels because of the superior weapon dps, 1.04 brought an even greater disparity through the new legendaries. Its like they weren't even thinking at all, and the devs wonder why people don't have much faith in them?
personally i prefer bows as a playstyle choice and can see a well rolled windforce being really good in pvp. high atk spd means for better kiting and the 50% kncokback is probably godly in pvp.
it would be more interesting to see maybe bows get something like bonus movement speed (an indirect booster to dps if you think about it).
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What should I upgrade right now? I have close to 60m
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ChairmanRay-1715/hero/6384290
I just picked up the Andies, so I'm gonna fit a ruby in it (anyone wanna sell me one for 6m?). I think out of my setup, I should upgrade my chestpiece first. I'm planning on getting the Nats set unless the legendary alternatives are better. So for the Nats chestpiece, what should I look for and how much should I pay for it?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the value of a windforce in pvp depends on what they are gonna do with pvp itself, particularly with regards to CC and critical dmg. i don't think they can let crit dmg alone in pvp as it is too dominant of a dps characteristic. cc reduction is gonna be hard to balance as well, probably tie it with vit or something like in ro.
anyway, if CC is strong in pvp and crit is weak, windforce value will go way up.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 07 2012 13:31 Chairman Ray wrote:What should I upgrade right now? I have close to 60m http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ChairmanRay-1715/hero/6384290I just picked up the Andies, so I'm gonna fit a ruby in it (anyone wanna sell me one for 6m?). I think out of my setup, I should upgrade my chestpiece first. I'm planning on getting the Nats set unless the legendary alternatives are better. So for the Nats chestpiece, what should I look for and how much should I pay for it?
get a new quiver.
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On September 07 2012 13:31 Chairman Ray wrote:What should I upgrade right now? I have close to 60m http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ChairmanRay-1715/hero/6384290I just picked up the Andies, so I'm gonna fit a ruby in it (anyone wanna sell me one for 6m?). I think out of my setup, I should upgrade my chestpiece first. I'm planning on getting the Nats set unless the legendary alternatives are better. So for the Nats chestpiece, what should I look for and how much should I pay for it?
Get a new quiver for cheap, if you look around you might be able to keep the hungering arrow bonus too.
Lol sniped.
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On September 07 2012 13:35 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 13:31 Chairman Ray wrote:What should I upgrade right now? I have close to 60m http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ChairmanRay-1715/hero/6384290I just picked up the Andies, so I'm gonna fit a ruby in it (anyone wanna sell me one for 6m?). I think out of my setup, I should upgrade my chestpiece first. I'm planning on getting the Nats set unless the legendary alternatives are better. So for the Nats chestpiece, what should I look for and how much should I pay for it? get a new quiver.
What stats should I aim for? Would it be a good idea to just save up a bit more and get dead man's legacy?
Currently see this quiver in the AH going for 10m/20m. Would this be a good investment?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xb0QU.jpg)
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On September 07 2012 14:12 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 13:35 oneofthem wrote:On September 07 2012 13:31 Chairman Ray wrote:What should I upgrade right now? I have close to 60m http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/ChairmanRay-1715/hero/6384290I just picked up the Andies, so I'm gonna fit a ruby in it (anyone wanna sell me one for 6m?). I think out of my setup, I should upgrade my chestpiece first. I'm planning on getting the Nats set unless the legendary alternatives are better. So for the Nats chestpiece, what should I look for and how much should I pay for it? get a new quiver. What stats should I aim for? Would it be a good idea to just save up a bit more and get dead man's legacy? Currently see this quiver in the AH going for 10m/20m. Would this be a good investment?
Quivers dexterity was buffed btw, so i really wont spend 20m on that
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EPT
