EPTDemon Hunter - Builds/Discussion - Page 112
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On July 06 2012 08:38 tuho12345 wrote: Hey guys, just wondering an xbow with 1142 dps/ 6iAS35% dam and 90% crit dam versus a xbow with 1420 dps/45% dam/8% ias no socket. Which one do u guys think is better. How much are they actually worth in term of gold right now. Thank you. if you have values for cc and cd that satisfy the following inequality, the 1142dps w/+90%cd bow will outperform the 1420dps one. 1027.8 - 278cd > 278/cc cd = critical damage (excludes weapon) in decimal eg: 150% = 1.5 cc = critical chance in decimal | ||
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ChosenBrad1322
United States562 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On July 06 2012 12:20 JoeSchmoe wrote: if you have values for cc and cd that satisfy the following inequality, the 1142dps w/+90%cd bow will outperform the 1420dps one. 1027.8 - 278cd > 278/cc cd = critical damage (excludes weapon) in decimal eg: 150% = 1.5 cc = critical chance in decimal I think I only have like 23% cc, idk why I just hate CC, overrated to me  So might go with the 1420 dps tho. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On July 06 2012 15:16 tuho12345 wrote: I think I only have like 23% cc, idk why I just hate CC, overrated to me So might go with the 1420 dps tho. with 23% cc, there's actually no value of cd that would allow the 1142dps bow to outperform the 1420dps one as observed by the inequality. There are some interesting facts we can derive however. For example, the max value you can have for cd is 269.7% (which happens when cc = 100%). The smallest value for cc necessary is 31.3% when you have 50% cd (base value). To summarize, if your cc and cd do not satisfy both of the following, don't bother checking with the inequality because there is no way your 1142dps bow will outperform the 1420dps one. 1) cc is between 31.3% and 100% 2) cd is between 50% and 269.7% basically the 1420 dps bow is always better because satisfying the inequality requires high cc and low cd. eg: cc = 35% requires cd < 83% cc = 40% requires cd < 119% cc = 45% requires cd < 147% | ||
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edw123
37 Posts
On July 06 2012 17:54 JoeSchmoe wrote: with 23% cc, there's actually no value of cd that would allow the 1142dps bow to outperform the 1420dps one as observed by the inequality. There are some interesting facts we can derive however. For example, the max value you can have for cd is 269.7% (which happens when cc = 100%). The smallest value for cc necessary is 31.3% when you have 50% cd (base value). To summarize, if your cc and cd do not satisfy both of the following, don't bother checking with the inequality because there is no way your 1142dps bow will outperform the 1420dps one. 1) cc is between 31.3% and 100% 2) cd is between 50% and 269.7% basically the 1420 dps bow is always better because satisfying the inequality requires high cc and low cd. eg: cc = 35% requires cd < 83% cc = 40% requires cd < 119% cc = 45% requires cd < 147% hi, the last part of ur comment, I don't quite understand it: basically the 1420 dps bow is always better because satisfying the inequality requires high cc and low cd. eg: cc = 35% requires cd < 83% cc = 40% requires cd < 119% cc = 45% requires cd < 147% what if I have cc=35% and more than 83% cd (100% for example), is it not possible? not effective? | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
An example would be, going into a cave and immediately running into elite small spiders with shielding in act 2. How to deal with this? | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On July 07 2012 02:42 wintergt wrote: I have some problems with a particular type of situation when farming on my DH. When I encounter naturally fast melee mobs that are elite and spawn at the beginning of tuning into a new zone or dungeon. I have tried different builds, like spiketrap+stun builds, Ball lightning builds, cluster arrow, etc, but the effect seems to be the same, I can do fine except vs these fast melee elites that sit on my face. I can't facetank 4 of them with Gloom, I can't kite backwards because there is no room, I can't run past them to make room because I'll aggro the whole region. An example would be, going into a cave and immediately running into elite small spiders with shielding in act 2. How to deal with this? die like a man or abusing the stairs. ss -> go down the stairs -> spam cluster arrow/spike traps/ele arrow ->go up the stairs before you run out of ss -> rinse and repeat. | ||
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Baeksucho
France46 Posts
On July 05 2012 21:27 Antimage wrote: I've been trying to decide whether to complete the 4 set. I had the boots/cloak/ring for probably a month now. I've been upgrading other slots and I don't find a need to have to spam smokescreen all day. I sold a gg ring so I'm down to 42% crit chance and with a spike traps/caltrops combination I have been able to farm act 3 pretty reliably. They get stunned, they take huge dmg, u walk back, and repeat. You have more than enough discipline to do this for a few minutes straight. I guess if you're gonna go glass cannon, the nats set isn't the worst idea in the world. Otherwise, the helm is absolute shit for the cost (assuming you want a socket). The Nat set is not the most optimal way if you want big numbers. Right now, if you want to get the highest DPS you have to go : - 190 dex Andy / Nat Cloak / Nat Ring Another choice is - Nat Helm with 4% crit / Nat Cloak / Nat Ring. (2k less dps than the build with a 190 dex Andy) I had 120k dps unbuffed with Nat cloak / helm / ring but 290 dex boots. I picked some trash boots yesterday with 0 dex.to test the disc regen. and god, it is even more broken than what you think (if you didn't already test it). I lost 16k dps (from the 290 dex boots), but it's completely worth it. I'm not farming faster than before, but it's a LOT more comfortable. You worry a lot less about reflect damages (timing with cluster bombs, running out of discipline etc.) When before you were like "hmm, i'll dodge this one, no need to smoke screen, i will have more discipline if there is an elite pack after', you are now like "they are coming ? lol smoke screen bitches, infinite cloak" I'm not even managing/thinking about my discipline anymore. SS - SS -SS -SS everytime | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
On July 07 2012 03:19 Black Gun wrote: die like a man or abusing the stairs. ss -> go down the stairs -> spam cluster arrow/spike traps/ele arrow ->go up the stairs before you run out of ss -> rinse and repeat. Ok this can work, only problem is how they fast regenerate out of combat, and completely reset their hp after 5 seconds. That leaves barely enough time for me to get back my discipline while having to keep them in combat. Another scenario I remember was me taking the Black Canyon Mines wp, usually an easy 2 elite pick-up as they spawn close, but in this case they were fallen warriors (very fast) at my immediate NW, with nightmarish and knockback, I couldn't even take the waypoint to zone out because they knock me off of it. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On July 07 2012 04:59 wintergt wrote: Ok this can work, only problem is how they fast regenerate out of combat, and completely reset their hp after 5 seconds. That leaves barely enough time for me to get back my discipline while having to keep them in combat. Another scenario I remember was me taking the Black Canyon Mines wp, usually an easy 2 elite pick-up as they spawn close, but in this case they were fallen warriors (very fast) at my immediate NW, with nightmarish and knockback, I couldn't even take the waypoint to zone out because they knock me off of it. loool, well... sometimes you have to man up and take it in the ass like a champ.  for dhs, there are just situations that you cant deal with, no matter how good the gear or skilled the player is. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
I'm playing a hungering/ele arrow build with caltrops and I don't mind kiting. I just want to farm a3 effectively so what would be the best route to go? edit: http://i.imgur.com/tyD4O.jpg gear pic | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On July 08 2012 07:50 snarl wrote: @God DHs who comfortably farm act3: how much do you value resistances? I read somewhere 300@res is nice before DR starts to kick in or something to that effect, should I be aiming for that right now since that's cheaper than getting more dps? I'm at 55k pre-SS dps with only 100 or so @res. I'm also at 2pc Nats(chest, helm), with about 50-60m budget should I try for 4pc or is breaking it up and trying for more dps better? I'm playing a hungering/ele arrow build with caltrops and I don't mind kiting. I just want to farm a3 effectively so what would be the best route to go? to farm it effectively, more dps would be a good start. even though you also shouldnt neglect survivability. imho 300 res and 35k+ hp is more than sufficient. | ||
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KingOfAmerica
United States246 Posts
On July 08 2012 07:50 snarl wrote: @God DHs who comfortably farm act3: how much do you value resistances? I read somewhere 300@res is nice before DR starts to kick in or something to that effect, should I be aiming for that right now since that's cheaper than getting more dps? I'm at 55k pre-SS dps with only 100 or so @res. I'm also at 2pc Nats(chest, helm), with about 50-60m budget should I try for 4pc or is breaking it up and trying for more dps better? I'm playing a hungering/ele arrow build with caltrops and I don't mind kiting. I just want to farm a3 effectively so what would be the best route to go? I farm act 3. I would go for the resistances. I also run hungering / frost arrow / caltrops. At around 45K pre SS 90K with. Between 220-300 resistances 42K HP. I rarely feel like DPS is holding me back, it is more frustration when I goof and take a hit to die. At this mix my play feels like I need about 100-150 more res before I put more money into DPS. That takes you above a threshold where you don't get one shotted by arcane and you can take a couple of fireballs from the flying thingies. After that threshold there are diminishing returns on tankiness and it is time to pour straight into DPS. | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On July 08 2012 07:50 snarl wrote: @God DHs who comfortably farm act3: how much do you value resistances? I read somewhere 300@res is nice before DR starts to kick in or something to that effect, should I be aiming for that right now since that's cheaper than getting more dps? I'm at 55k pre-SS dps with only 100 or so @res. I'm also at 2pc Nats(chest, helm), with about 50-60m budget should I try for 4pc or is breaking it up and trying for more dps better? I'm playing a hungering/ele arrow build with caltrops and I don't mind kiting. I just want to farm a3 effectively so what would be the best route to go? I'm farming a3 very comfortably right now, I die 3-5 times in a 10 elite + spider + az run. For me I completely neglect any defenses, I have 20k hp, 3k armor, and 100ish res for all, but I have 110k pre-ss dps. My build is prep/ss/gloom/bat + evasive fire/cluster arrow. I was using hunger/ele arrow for a long time before switching to evasive fire/cluster arrow, and it made my farming 2x as fast. Also I'm not using nat's set, even though I can afford to, because it sacrifices a lot of dps. I don't feel disc starved most of the time with 49 base disc. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On July 08 2012 07:50 snarl wrote: @God DHs who comfortably farm act3: how much do you value resistances? I read somewhere 300@res is nice before DR starts to kick in or something to that effect, should I be aiming for that right now since that's cheaper than getting more dps? I'm at 55k pre-SS dps with only 100 or so @res. I'm also at 2pc Nats(chest, helm), with about 50-60m budget should I try for 4pc or is breaking it up and trying for more dps better? I'm playing a hungering/ele arrow build with caltrops and I don't mind kiting. I just want to farm a3 effectively so what would be the best route to go? I used to have around 500 resistances and 30k HP and was very tanky - had about 45k dmg w/o SS. Switched to Nats, required me to give up some resistances. I'm at 300 resist with 27k HP but with the 2 disc regen/sec bonus, and now at 55k dps w/o SS. Act 3 is really easy for me. You have to make a decision one way or another - either spend the 60m on getting the other two items or sell what you have. Out of curiousity, what quality items do you have? Post pics of your nats set, if they're already good then you should probably keep, if they're shit (like worst class) then I would recommend sell. Personally on my nats, I use a crap ring (though has some vit) and chest (trying to get a better one), but have a high roll dex helm one and a decent boots (50 dex) | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
thats my gear with both nats pieces i have, not using the 2 pieces atm. If i were to get resists it would prolly be on shoulder/chest and maybe belt right? I'm farming a3 very comfortably right now, I die 3-5 times in a 10 elite + spider + az run. For me I completely neglect any defenses, I have 20k hp, 3k armor, and 100ish res for all, but I have 110k pre-ss dps. My build is prep/ss/gloom/bat + evasive fire/cluster arrow. I was using hunger/ele arrow for a long time before switching to evasive fire/cluster arrow, and it made my farming 2x as fast. Also I'm not using nat's set, even though I can afford to, because it sacrifices a lot of dps. I don't feel disc starved most of the time with 49 base disc. I can clear roughly what you said as well minus cydaea(haven't tried her solo) I just start on azmo quest then do Tower1/2, Arreat before Azmo, Beacons+Stonefort area, and Ballista+Rakkis if I feel like it since they are mobbier and more open. Thing is I die a fair bit depending on the affixes and definitely don't clear it in sub 15 mins or w/e so it feels inefficient  | ||
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Antimage
Canada1293 Posts
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tmonet
United States172 Posts
On July 08 2012 16:13 Antimage wrote: Just got my 4 Nat set, made the decision to downgrade my helm in order to get it. I lost 4k dps and am down to 51k but it is so much easier to farm act 3 now. About 280 all resist, 32k hp and I usually am able to do any run in the act without dying if I don't get lazy. Just remember to get LoH too or have an alternate amulet to switch to versus reflect. do you not run gloom? | ||
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