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On January 22 2011 15:36 ymir233 wrote:
Noobs derping it up here.
It's NOT whining if IdrA makes a perfectly fine point (no matter how shocking/strong it may be) and then manages to back it up with the mounds of experience that he has. His train of logic is sound and I don't think saying shouting IdrA down with calls of "get better" 24/7 works any better than the eternal corporate slogan "work smarter not harder".
Also, why are the air builds so good o_____O?
VR/Collosi combo nearly impossible to stop as a zerg. And well being able to pump like 6 phoenix in a minute with CB makes Muta even more useless then they were before, and they can also cripple a zerg if the zerg player is caught off guard.
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After watching the interview I can't help but think that Idra is a little demorolised right now, going to 4 GSLs and not making it into semis/finals must be breaking his spirit down, I hope next season he goes further (at least to semis) and the new maps in GSL will hopefully give Idra and other zergs more even plays.
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On January 22 2011 14:53 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 14:08 Saechiis wrote:
Great, Idra aiming to start a new era of Zerg QQ. I'd like his new humble attitude if only it didn't stem from his view of Zerg as being vastly underpowered. At some point you'd expect him to just switch to Toss or Terran and own everyone, but somehow if feel that's never going to happen.
I appreciate him trying to create more content for SC2 fans, if only he wasn't so painfully biased. you realize ive just spent like 10 months playing zerg? i have very little experience with tvt/pvp/tvp and zerg's mechanics are relatively unique compared to the other races. even if im right and t/p are easier and stronger than zerg it would still take a long time to get to the level of my zerg with either of them. and if i dont have immediate success i catch a bunch of shit for it, and eventually blizzard will have to address the balance issues and then i feel like an idiot, because i do prefer to play zerg. this is why almost no competitive players have switched races. however the fact that just about every high level zerg player has considered switching, if not publicly announced they intend to, kind of says something. how many t's and p's do you see saying theyre gonna switch? i can only remember genius. whereas with zerg dimaga, machine, sheth, myself, ret, haypro, fd, check, and possibly other korean z's have all either practiced other races seriously or announced that we want to/intend to switch.
Sen is a pretty big name that deserves to be on that list, and although I've never heard him say it publicly, Nestea has to be on there as well doesn't he? And the most important of all, Artosis!
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On January 22 2011 15:43 Boneyard.au wrote:
After watching the interview I can't help but think that Idra is a little demorolised right now, going to 4 GSLs and not making it into semis/finals must be breaking his spirit down, I hope next season he goes further (at least to semis) and the new maps in GSL will hopefully give Idra and other zergs more even plays.
I actually think IdrA is pretty happy with his results on GSL's, not opposite~~
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Really interesting interview. Leaving early does make sense mentally to me, but the point off "Zerg is not a comeback race" is really good, Zerg isn't meant to randomly pull off comeback wins through fluke tech switches and timings, its meant to be the reactive, macro race.
But its really interesting hearing how strongly he believes in balance problems. His points are decent about how some of his wins were pretty lucky, and how NesTea had an easy path, but I think next season will be interesting. If Idra's analysis is right, then yea very few Zergs will progress far, only the few of ZvZ's and good maps and bad players. If there is a no Zerg ro16 that would really turn some heads balancewise, the races are never that even (Terran has so many good players that I don't think it's a balance issue that it's so crowded at high levels), but only 2 races in the top 16 would be pretty huge.
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Thx, IdrA and Artosis! 
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Sweden33723 Posts
On January 22 2011 15:48 Welmu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 15:43 Boneyard.au wrote:
After watching the interview I can't help but think that Idra is a little demorolised right now, going to 4 GSLs and not making it into semis/finals must be breaking his spirit down, I hope next season he goes further (at least to semis) and the new maps in GSL will hopefully give Idra and other zergs more even plays. I actually think IdrA is pretty happy with his results on GSL's, not opposite~~
I really doubt it... Definitely not happy with the first one anyway. Hes better than his finishes (at least when looked at individually, they do show consistency when looked at as a whole), pretty obviously ;o
On January 22 2011 14:10 palookieblue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 10:00 Lefnui wrote:On January 22 2011 09:41 MrSpider wrote:On January 22 2011 09:10 Klogon wrote:On January 22 2011 08:50 Lefnui wrote:On January 22 2011 08:35 Klogon wrote:On January 22 2011 08:23 travis wrote:On January 22 2011 08:22 1Eris1 wrote:On January 22 2011 08:06 travis wrote:On January 22 2011 07:50 ratMortar wrote:
[quote]
IdrA made it very clear that he had no chance of winning his game on Metal.
Thanks Artosis, you always provide great interviews. ok i listened again and he kind of does say that, though he is really vague about it... ("blah blah its possible to come back if ur macro is good enough blah blah.. but jinro is too solid") i'll just say that if that's what he thinks, then he's wrong. you can get lucky, and your opponent can do stupid shit or make huge mistakes. sure, it's extremely unlikely. but what does that matter? unlikely things happen all the time. he says it wasn't worth it to play it out like he's actually losing something substantial by playing it out. I think idra knows that it's still possible he could win, just incredibly unlikely. And so he doesn't bother, which is why I call him pessimistic. TBH Im sure he knows there is like a .001% chance Jinro might mess up, but I think he just left so he wouldn't get caught up in the game and could focus. If he had stuck around he would have just gotten rolled and it probably would have thrown him off for the next game. I suppose that could be true. I haven't really been in that situation so I wouldn't know  I am a fan of being a fighter and playing it out. I would like to compare it to basketball where in the play offs you have a series of 7 games played in a very short period of time. Even if you are down by 6 points with very little time on the clock, you'll still call those time outs and foul the opposing team if there is a SLIGHT chance you can win. Sure it'll drag out the game and sure you might feel less rested in the next game, but the small chance of a miracle is worth it. I think that's a very poor comparison. Firstly, in basketball you can't resign. So your only other option would be to just stand there, which would of course be ridiculous. The only time that approach is accepted in basketball is when it's absolutely clear that there isn't enough time or the point differential is too great. Unlike in Starcraft, basketball starts over with every play. Whatever happened in the past plays makes absolutely no difference(except for the score of course). But in Starcraft the advantages roll over so if you get that far behind you might as well just resign. It's known for it's 'slippery slope' effect. Basketball is the very opposite, you can get back into the game so quickly with a few good stops and series of makes. A much better comparison would be to chess. In chess if two GMs are playing and one drops a pawn in the opening with no compensation you can be almost guaranteed that he will resign. It's all percentages and math though. If statistically, a player who got bunker blocked can come back the same percentage of the time as a player down 0-40 to Federer in a game, in the end of the day, the efforts of the disadvantaged players in both cases can be considered fairly similar as they have a statistically similar chance of a come back. That's my point. If using your basketball example, just make the gap in points big enough that would be similar statistically to a blocked bunker ramp and the same principle applies. In most other sports, you see athletes fighting to the death. They often will lose, but every once in a while you have an EPIC comeback. That's my point. I love those comebacks. So I love the fight. It's been beaten to death tho so I'll stop. Klogon is totally right, I play zerg, I love Idra's playstyle and I understand his feelings, but its too easy for him to always complain. Look at Fruitdealer in Season 1 against NexLiveForever. Cool lost his hatch, and then lost several drone due to invisible banshees, he didn't give up, and had an epic victory(the most epic victory I ever seen). Ok it was fruitdealer, ok it was not close position, and its very painful to try something that will propably never work but the fact is : at least Idra, TRY TO DO SOMETHING. Even if banelings or roach all-in will not work, just do it! Because sometimes it works, its just a game and Jinro can do mistakes(like cancelling a marine instead of a barracks). Bah I'm sure Idra will do well next season as always, he is the Gracken!! That game is not comparable to being contained by two bunkers. Let's be clear: When you are contained by two bunkers the game is over. You have already lost. Put close spawn meta on top of it and it's almost silly to stay. Sweet, if I ever encounter you on ladder I'll know how to swindle you for some free wins. If everyone played perfectly then any advantage gained during the course of a game will be 100% converted into a win. Better players than IdrA would have continued, have continued, and in some circumstances, have won. Overall, great interview. Thanks IdrA and Artosis. I will just say this: IdrA's attitude, whether it is genuine or not, absolves him of people's expectations. It's actually pretty sneaky. If he loses, there is no big surprise because 'omg Zerg is UP' and 'IMBA T/MAPS'. And if he wins, he's lauded for overcoming these 'inherent' disadvantages, and playing SUPERIOR to his opponents. Smart guy. Also, when IdrA commented regarding the roach patch, saying that he wouldn't lose to Terran for a month... doesn't anyone find this to be a weird statement? Terran players can evolve... but IdrA and zergs can't? Puh-leese.
Theres more room for T to evolve than Z, at least thats what it seems like to me right now. Just the fact that T has basically 3 completely viable TvZ styles compared to zergs what, 1.5, says enough doesnt it (mech, biomech, bio)?
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I agree completely that the game was 90 percent lost but it would be nice to play it anyway with no pressure to see what might happen. After all, FD's miracle GSL 1 win was basically due to him continuing his last game against TOP. No one would have blamed him if he had gg-ed straight away and i think he was in an even worse state than IdrA.
Although if playing a losing game hurts his morale more than anything then i guess its acceptable. I do feel although Jinro is solid, he is actually prone to simple mistakes ( wrong walloff/ ling runby ) as seen from games against Check and Leenock.
In any case, thanks Artosis. Really good contents coming out from your youtube nowadays.
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Great interview, Idra is awesome.
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I think Nestea will lose, but I HOPE HE WINS!!!!
Please win Nestea...
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"I will just say this: IdrA's attitude, whether it is genuine or not, absolves him of people's expectations. It's actually pretty sneaky. If he loses, there is no big surprise because 'omg Zerg is UP' and 'IMBA T/MAPS'. And if he wins, he's lauded for overcoming these 'inherent' disadvantages, and playing SUPERIOR to his opponents. Smart guy."
idra took little to no credit for all his wins..he said he had easy brackets and won games vs good players only when they made really basic errors
the problem is in idra's life mindset and definitely not at keyboard, i think idra is the best at converting his close to perfect analytical logic to game skills..however he suffers when he forgets about the magical aspect the very best of all crafts contain..
this might be your prime idra i would hate to see you hold yourself back
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its funny how Idra says protoss air is gonna pwn zerg when for a long time it was nearly impossible for P to counter broodlord builds.
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I've been looking forward to this interview since the day his games were played. It's really great to hear his insight, particularly because he's a player whose opinions and comments I generally agree with.
Here's hoping he makes it further in the next season of the GSL. Thanks for the interview, Artosis! .
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If Zerg was blatantly overpowered he would go: "Yeah, the game is fairly balanced but there are still some maps that are not large and open enough for my impeccable macro to win me as many games as i deserve".
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On January 22 2011 03:14 Madawc wrote:
Props for thinking of us europeans : ]
I agree!
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On January 22 2011 16:24 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 15:48 Welmu wrote:On January 22 2011 15:43 Boneyard.au wrote:
After watching the interview I can't help but think that Idra is a little demorolised right now, going to 4 GSLs and not making it into semis/finals must be breaking his spirit down, I hope next season he goes further (at least to semis) and the new maps in GSL will hopefully give Idra and other zergs more even plays. I actually think IdrA is pretty happy with his results on GSL's, not opposite~~ I really doubt it... Definitely not happy with the first one anyway. Hes better than his finishes (at least when looked at individually, they do show consistency when looked at as a whole), pretty obviously ;o Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 14:10 palookieblue wrote:On January 22 2011 10:00 Lefnui wrote:On January 22 2011 09:41 MrSpider wrote:On January 22 2011 09:10 Klogon wrote:On January 22 2011 08:50 Lefnui wrote:On January 22 2011 08:35 Klogon wrote:On January 22 2011 08:23 travis wrote:On January 22 2011 08:22 1Eris1 wrote:On January 22 2011 08:06 travis wrote:
[quote]
ok i listened again and he kind of does say that, though he is really vague about it... ("blah blah its possible to come back if ur macro is good enough blah blah.. but jinro is too solid")
i'll just say that if that's what he thinks, then he's wrong. you can get lucky, and your opponent can do stupid shit or make huge mistakes. sure, it's extremely unlikely. but what does that matter? unlikely things happen all the time. he says it wasn't worth it to play it out like he's actually losing something substantial by playing it out.
I think idra knows that it's still possible he could win, just incredibly unlikely. And so he doesn't bother, which is why I call him pessimistic. TBH Im sure he knows there is like a .001% chance Jinro might mess up, but I think he just left so he wouldn't get caught up in the game and could focus. If he had stuck around he would have just gotten rolled and it probably would have thrown him off for the next game. I suppose that could be true. I haven't really been in that situation so I wouldn't know I am a fan of being a fighter and playing it out. I would like to compare it to basketball where in the play offs you have a series of 7 games played in a very short period of time. Even if you are down by 6 points with very little time on the clock, you'll still call those time outs and foul the opposing team if there is a SLIGHT chance you can win. Sure it'll drag out the game and sure you might feel less rested in the next game, but the small chance of a miracle is worth it. I think that's a very poor comparison. Firstly, in basketball you can't resign. So your only other option would be to just stand there, which would of course be ridiculous. The only time that approach is accepted in basketball is when it's absolutely clear that there isn't enough time or the point differential is too great. Unlike in Starcraft, basketball starts over with every play. Whatever happened in the past plays makes absolutely no difference(except for the score of course). But in Starcraft the advantages roll over so if you get that far behind you might as well just resign. It's known for it's 'slippery slope' effect. Basketball is the very opposite, you can get back into the game so quickly with a few good stops and series of makes. A much better comparison would be to chess. In chess if two GMs are playing and one drops a pawn in the opening with no compensation you can be almost guaranteed that he will resign. It's all percentages and math though. If statistically, a player who got bunker blocked can come back the same percentage of the time as a player down 0-40 to Federer in a game, in the end of the day, the efforts of the disadvantaged players in both cases can be considered fairly similar as they have a statistically similar chance of a come back. That's my point. If using your basketball example, just make the gap in points big enough that would be similar statistically to a blocked bunker ramp and the same principle applies. In most other sports, you see athletes fighting to the death. They often will lose, but every once in a while you have an EPIC comeback. That's my point. I love those comebacks. So I love the fight. It's been beaten to death tho so I'll stop. Klogon is totally right, I play zerg, I love Idra's playstyle and I understand his feelings, but its too easy for him to always complain. Look at Fruitdealer in Season 1 against NexLiveForever. Cool lost his hatch, and then lost several drone due to invisible banshees, he didn't give up, and had an epic victory(the most epic victory I ever seen). Ok it was fruitdealer, ok it was not close position, and its very painful to try something that will propably never work but the fact is : at least Idra, TRY TO DO SOMETHING. Even if banelings or roach all-in will not work, just do it! Because sometimes it works, its just a game and Jinro can do mistakes(like cancelling a marine instead of a barracks). Bah I'm sure Idra will do well next season as always, he is the Gracken!! That game is not comparable to being contained by two bunkers. Let's be clear: When you are contained by two bunkers the game is over. You have already lost. Put close spawn meta on top of it and it's almost silly to stay. Sweet, if I ever encounter you on ladder I'll know how to swindle you for some free wins. If everyone played perfectly then any advantage gained during the course of a game will be 100% converted into a win. Better players than IdrA would have continued, have continued, and in some circumstances, have won. Overall, great interview. Thanks IdrA and Artosis. I will just say this: IdrA's attitude, whether it is genuine or not, absolves him of people's expectations. It's actually pretty sneaky. If he loses, there is no big surprise because 'omg Zerg is UP' and 'IMBA T/MAPS'. And if he wins, he's lauded for overcoming these 'inherent' disadvantages, and playing SUPERIOR to his opponents. Smart guy. Also, when IdrA commented regarding the roach patch, saying that he wouldn't lose to Terran for a month... doesn't anyone find this to be a weird statement? Terran players can evolve... but IdrA and zergs can't? Puh-leese. Theres more room for T to evolve than Z, at least thats what it seems like to me right now. Just the fact that T has basically 3 completely viable TvZ styles compared to zergs what, 1.5, says enough doesnt it (mech, biomech, bio)?
going to agree with Jinro that Terran does have a lot of options, but I say that zerg just doesn't seem to use their gg lords too much like nestea.
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Hello Artosis,
Hi Idra,
thanks for this nice interview. Please keep it up, and the community entertained.
Is there a link to the VODs of Idra's Vlog? Will you still keep streaming your laddergames like you used to do, some time ago, or will it be cut down to only these 2 h vlog?
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thanks a lot for the interview! really appreciate it.
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Nice job Artosis... as usual !!!
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Does anyone know where IdrA will be putting up his vods? The interview died before he could say it.
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EPT
