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LAST UPDATE: GSL announced new maps for GSTL - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189181 This thread is not going to be updated anymore.
GSL Code S progamer NSPGenius just posted a thread on PlayXP about GSL official map change.
According to NSPGenius, 4 bad maps will be pulled out from GSL official maps. Those 4 maps are Steppes of War, Delta Quadrant, Blistering Sands and unknown one. For replacement, 4 other maps will be used on GSL.
According to a reply from Jung-Won Chae, the director of Gretech E-Sports Operations and GSL commentator, Gisado Star-Challenge is now testing new maps for next GSL season.
Gisado Star-Challenge is now using new maps listed below. Of course, those maps are just candidates. These testing maps are uploaded on ALL servers by smileyyy(EU), [SCC]Faust(NA), [wh]_ForAlways(NA), MeLo(SEA). Search 'GSL' or mapname to play on these maps. There is an ongoing closed map tests in GomTV also.
I had a talk with Gisado about this issue and he said "I can not answer weather or not those maps are going to be included on GSL map pool because map pool change requires extreme cautions. I can not give you a definite answer, but I can say it is a positive atmosphere in progress."
Gisado Star-Challenge VODs on candidates: http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119 Daily Updates!
Gisado Star-Challenge Restream information: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=185877
Candidate Maps: Search 'GSL' or mapname to play on these maps. If you want to contact winpark, Ovalient, JackyPrime, LSPrime, just PM me.
1. Aiur Garden(custom, 아이어 정원, KR EU NA SEA available) by winpark
No longer used on Gisado Star-Challenge. I *still* don't know it was dropped from candidates or not.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cGpq2.jpg)
2. Tal'Darim Altar(custom, 탈다림 제단, name changed from Amoroso, KR EU NA SEA available) by LSPrime
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/KanAo.jpg)
3. Biohazard(custom, KR EU NA available) by Ovalient
No longer used on Gisado Star-Challenge. I *still* don't know it was dropped from candidates or not.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vPxmg.jpg)
4. Crossfire SE(customized blizzard,KR EU NA SEA available) by JackyPrime
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/emd1e.jpg)
5. Terminus Re(customized Blizzard,터미누스 Re, KR EU NA SEA available) by LSPrime
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/7YJDO.jpg)
6. Crevasse (custom,크레바스, KR EU avilable) by JackyPrime
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/J3b0D.jpg)
7. Legacy of the Void(custom, 공허의 유산, KR EU NA SEA available) by LSPrime
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2GXYk.jpg)
8. Merry-Go-Round(custom, 회전목마, KR EU NA SEA available) by winpark
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/sVFnY.jpg)
9. Gettysburg(custom, 게티스버그, KR available) by LSPrime
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/KSmJ9.jpg)
Thread updated information.
1. Terminus RE added to candidates.
2. Map uploading status on EU, NA servers added.
3. Gisado interview added.
4. Crevasse added on candidates.
5. Aiur Garden is no longer used on Gisado Star-Challenge.
6. New candidate map Legacy of the Void added.
7. Crevasse and Legacy of the Void are now playable on EU
8. Biohazard is no longer used on Gisado Star-Challenge.
9. Merry-Go-Round added on candidates.
10. All maps are uploaded on SEA also.
11. Gettysburg added on candidates
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Hell its about time !!!!!1111!!!!!!!!
I sincerely hope TSL 3 will have these maps !!. It tells you a lot when I am 100% sure that the GSL maps will better than the 4 maps they pulled out of the pool !
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This should be good :-) Wondering what they will replace them with.
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FINALLY, they better be freakin macro maps that are HUUUGE.
I wonder when this will be implemented
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Most likely the other Blizzard maps, hopefully Crossfire.
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Really good, pushing for custom maps!
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They've finally realised after 2-3 seasons that maps play a big factor in game entertainment.
I haven't seen a bad game on Shakuras in GSL to date.
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they wont remove scrap station ?!!?  (
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
PLEASE for the love of god use some community created maps.
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I saw Gisado making maps on his stream. Hmmm.
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i really want to see some good iccup maps. but i sincerely doubt blizzard would use those. they'd rather make their own -new maps or - good copies
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This new is sick.
New custom made maps may actually save GSL and SC2 in general in Korea.
SC2 now on many map is like BW is on Bloodbath or Lost Temple
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On January 08 2011 23:00 netherDrake wrote:
They've finally realised after 2-3 seasons that maps play a big factor in game entertainment.
I haven't seen a bad game on Shakuras in GSL to date.
lol they knew this from day 1. The is problem they cant simple switch maps for an open tournament....
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I read somewhere the other day Gisado was using Iccup maps... sure hope we see some of them added to map pool.
Hell, at this stage I'd settle for anything other than the current blizzard maps, even the ones that are relatively balanced are so old and well used now -.-
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Crossfire sucks. The nat is so open on top of having a wide ramp and a backdoor, and the mineral formations suck. Also the towers aren't along the main pathing which is just a personal peeve of mine. The tightness of the middle makes it unlikely it'd be balanced.
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Nice, it will be refreshing to see new strategies on new maps.
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If these Korean maps are any good I hope they get adopted by the foreign community just like in BW.
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Mmm i actually feel kinda sad about this. Even though zerg could have some hard times on these maps I still think they provided interesting games and this way there will be no map that zerg's mind apart from LT. One of the weaknesses of the zerg races I feel like is their susceptibility to rushes and removing these maps kinda makes zerg stronger in GSL atleast.
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Hell yes! Hopefuly they will use community maps such as ICCup maps and Blizzard will finally take note and include those maps in their poop and remove the also remove the imba maps like delta,steps, etc.
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thats absolutely amazing news. idont even care if the new maps are just as garbage because this shows signs of gsl listening to the community and taking a new step in sc2 history
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Great that this is confirmed now, some of the maps that were used by Gisado were pretty baller. Mostly large maps in comparison, some of them questionable balance wise, but it looks like people are welcoming any change at this stage, with the amount of criticism/negativity around the current mappool.
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I really hope the fourth map is Jungle Basin.
Great to hear this, I'm hoping for iCCup maps but I'm fine with any other quality map made by the community and not Blizzard...
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Fingers crossed for iCCup maps everyone... Those maps are so much better than regular ones.
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I never expected the community and tournament organizers to just sit on their hands and ignore the map issue, but it's great to see that it's happening so soon. Awesome news.
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omg yes! Amazing news. So happy to hear this.
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Oh man, this is huge. I really hope this means community maps and not just other Blizzard maps, but either way, great news. Hopefully, if the new maps receive good feedback, Blizzard will consider mirroring the changes to the ladder too.
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+ Show Spoiler +
Finally! :D:D:D
I also think that jungle basin is prob gonna go as the 4th map... Lost Temple stays.
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So.. Blizzard was right, basically?
Good news though. Here's to hoping the 4th is JB.
Edit: Major props to GOM for this as well btw. They get a LOT of crap, but they're definately the ones breaking the new ground for us all atm.
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Fucking amazing! Hopefully foreigner tournaments will follow this soon! Please add testbug. 
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This is amazing news and I really hope they'll release the maps to the public too if they are custom. Which I sincerely hope or even better iCCup maps....
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This excites me in the pants. Seriously if this is true I will be very, very happy.
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Too bad we still have to endure with the crap maps this season.
Thank god they've started to listen at least a little bit.
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Canada5565 Posts
yes yes yes yes
this is going to make all the difference
gsl is going to be 10x better
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I also hope they modify the current maps, shakuras is good, but the backdoor sucks.
LT could say, only enable cross spawning and change the ledge.
Also change Metalopolis to only cross spawning.
Wondering what the 4th map will be, jungle basin is horrible, but scrap station also.
Still good that finally something is done.
But it will take a while until the next GSL. : /
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Pretty big news, can't wait to see what these new maps actually look like.
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I updated 4 testing maps on Gisado Star-Challenge.
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Maps now in the OP that are in testing I guess.
They look pretty good to me. Start using them now please.
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Steppes, Scrap Station, Delta, Blistering, Jungle Basin and even LT should just go away. Replacing even some of these maps, though, is huge news. Can't wait to see the new ones and I really hope Blizz decides to change the official ladder map pool. Only good things are sure to come if that's the case .
EDIT: Just saw the maps. They look promising and fun. Can't wait to test them. Too bad the first two in OPs post are not for download.
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Crossfire (4)Amoroso ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/zDFd3.jpg) (4)Biohazard ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vPxmg.jpg) (4)아이어 정원 v1.10 ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/pmJeg.jpg)
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This is absolutely amazing and the first change towards Starcraft 2 becoming as amazing as it can be. If only we could get rid of these maps on the ladder as well...
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BEAST MAPS this makes me super excited.
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It seems like only a couple posters have seen the obvious problem: no one will be able to practice these maps on the ladder unless Blizzard decides to use them. Progamers will have no problem getting practice on the maps, but what about the others? Players like 99% of teamliquid will have to resort to a system more primitive than Iccup because the custom game interface in Battle.net 2.0 doesn't allow for titles or game lobbies, so we'll have immense difficulty finding games against players of similar skill. The resulting disconnect between the pros and the average player/spectator could be quite harmful. For example, those hoping to one day break into the professional ranks would have no way of practising these new maps unless he had several practice partners of similar skill (a considerable luxury).
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Yeaaaaaa new maps. Hopefully they don't use crossfire. There are small pathways with large bases, not to mention destructible rocks into your main.
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On January 08 2011 23:20 searcher wrote:
It seems like only a couple posters have seen the obvious problem: no one will be able to practice these maps on the ladder unless Blizzard decides to use them. Progamers will have no problem getting practice on the maps, but what about the others? Players like 99% of teamliquid will have to resort to a system more primitive than Iccup because the custom game interface in Battle.net 2.0 doesn't allow for titles or game lobbies. The resulting disconnect between the pros and the average player/spectator could be quite harmful. For example, those hoping to one day break into the professional ranks would have no way of practising these new maps unless he had several practice partners of similar skill (a considerable luxury).
Depends on what Blizzard's reaction is. Very possibly they will make a deal with GOM to delegate map pool duties to them and rotate the ladder map according to what is in the GSL at the time.
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Clutch links to the 4 maps they're using. Amoroso looks EPIC.
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They should replace ALL maps (except maybe LT). Good news nonetheless, I can't wait for next season.
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Good news but Crossfire still looks pretty retarded to me.
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This is awesome I would prefer maps not made by blizzard as I don't have any faith in them but any change is good. Hopefully Jungle Basin is removed as the fourth!
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On January 08 2011 23:20 searcher wrote:
It seems like only a couple posters have seen the obvious problem: no one will be able to practice these maps on the ladder unless Blizzard decides to use them. Progamers will have no problem getting practice on the maps, but what about the others? Players like 99% of teamliquid will have to resort to a system more primitive than Iccup because the custom game interface in Battle.net 2.0 doesn't allow for titles or game lobbies, so we'll have immense difficulty finding games against players of similar skill. The resulting disconnect between the pros and the average player/spectator could be quite harmful. For example, those hoping to one day break into the professional ranks would have no way of practising these new maps unless he had several practice partners of similar skill (a considerable luxury).
This might change with the introduction of chat channels though.
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This is awesome news. Even if the new maps aren't fantastic, this is definitely a step in the right direction.
On January 08 2011 23:20 searcher wrote:
It seems like only a couple posters have seen the obvious problem: no one will be able to practice these maps on the ladder unless Blizzard decides to use them. Progamers will have no problem getting practice on the maps, but what about the others? Players like 99% of teamliquid will have to resort to a system more primitive than Iccup because the custom game interface in Battle.net 2.0 doesn't allow for titles or game lobbies, so we'll have immense difficulty finding games against players of similar skill. The resulting disconnect between the pros and the average player/spectator could be quite harmful. For example, those hoping to one day break into the professional ranks would have no way of practising these new maps unless he had several practice partners of similar skill (a considerable luxury).
Once we have chat channels it won't be a problem. Just go to channel ICCUP or channel GSLmaps or whatever the designated place is and you will be able to find games.
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I would like to download these. How can I go about doing that? I think they're only uploaded to the korea server
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good news, but aiur gardens looks quite bad to me with the nat behind, on an island, and third being half way across the map, and crossfire looks pretty fishy with the hardcore chokes in the center, though it might make for very epic positional play. the other two are more straightforward, looking (very) good at first glance
still, they all look much better than dw, sow, bs, and jb, but i wouldn't mind if they tested a couple of the iccup sc2 maps, a few of those are really pro
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Sc2 just got 1 step closer to being awesomesauce, now you can truly balance around normal maps and not sub10minute all-ins
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On January 08 2011 23:26 FuRong wrote:This is awesome news. Even if the new maps aren't fantastic, this is definitely a step in the right direction. Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 23:20 searcher wrote:
It seems like only a couple posters have seen the obvious problem: no one will be able to practice these maps on the ladder unless Blizzard decides to use them. Progamers will have no problem getting practice on the maps, but what about the others? Players like 99% of teamliquid will have to resort to a system more primitive than Iccup because the custom game interface in Battle.net 2.0 doesn't allow for titles or game lobbies, so we'll have immense difficulty finding games against players of similar skill. The resulting disconnect between the pros and the average player/spectator could be quite harmful. For example, those hoping to one day break into the professional ranks would have no way of practising these new maps unless he had several practice partners of similar skill (a considerable luxury). Once we have chat channels it won't be a problem. Just go to channel ICCUP or channel GSLmaps or whatever the designated place is and you will be able to find games.
Plus it's rather likely some of these will end up on the ladder, it seems the logical thing to do. Though as with everything it'll take a bit, at least until some major maps have been established.
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On January 08 2011 23:28 anatem wrote:
good news, but aiur gardens looks quite bad to me with the nat behind, on an island, and third being half way across the map, and crossfire looks pretty fishy with the hardcore chokes in the center, though it might make for very epic positional play. the other two are more straightforward, looking (very) good at first glance
still, they all look much better than dw, sow, bs, and jb, but i wouldn't mind if they tested a couple of the iccup sc2 maps, a few of those are really pro
Yea, after the initial excitement I realised I WANT TESTBUG lol.
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dear GSL involved folks who read this forum:
thank you. thank you. thank you.
this was my first time buying a season ticket, but now I know it will not be my last.
It seems like only a couple posters have seen the obvious problem: no one will be able to practice these maps on the ladder unless Blizzard decides to use them. Progamers will have no problem getting practice on the maps, but what about the others?
it's an invite tournament. while the rest of us are going to have to figure something out, Im ok with that at first until blizzard realizes that the community as a whole is so much larger that we will, in time, make far better maps simply because the level of talent is so ridiculously higher than even a monstrous 70 person post-dev team.
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It is certainly a step in the right direction. Really looking forward to new maps in tournys. Sucks we might not be able to play the new maps though .
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I hope they all have Xel'Naga Watch Towers, I find the gameplay revolving around those interesting, especially in the early game.
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Yes! YES! Those maps look amazing, I can't wait to start seeing some variation! I think the only maps from the current pool that I want to keep seeing is Xel'Naga Caverns and Shakuras Plateau. Aside from those, bring on the new maps!
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very very very very good news!!!
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Woah, the maps are BIG TOO! SO AWESOME :D:D!
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Hell, it's about time.
Let us hope Blizzard will finally understand the (not so) hidden message here. :D
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huge maps. Last one is Peaks of Beakdu?
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Great news. Where to download maps? =]
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Hell yes, these look great.
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Amoroso's the only one that actually looks nice and yet it seems quite zerg favoured. The gold expo's in the middle also seem completely pointless.
The other three are incredibly mediocre.
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Oh god yes.
Hope the 4th removed one is Jungle Basin.
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Wow, that top map "Aiur Garden" looks disgusting.... Over 9000 chokepoints that can fit 2 units through at most. Welcome to more Tank/Viking TvT, hurrah for no progress!!!!
That being said, I do like that GSL is even thinking about changing up the maps, which shows that they are listening to player/pro feedback.
Edit: I just realized, the bottom one "Crossfire" is a remake of Peaks of Beakdu. That was one of my favourite BW maps. FTW!!!!
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Will somebody make some maps that aren'ts jungle or twilight? The badlands and redrock tilesets are amazing but no maps. =(
Awesome news though!
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
HELL ITS ABOUT TIME!!!!!(2.0)
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Iam really happy about these news, not because i know anything about those maps or anything for that matter. The fact that they are actually doing somethign is great and should be welcomed. I just hope people will give GOM the chance to continue and develop and not start immediately ranting just because some of the maps might not turn out that good or some one cheeses their favourite pro on it. The actual maps they are going to implement now do not matter as much as the matter that they change the mappool on their own. This could be something the whole sc2 community benefits from and not just the players of GSL.
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This is what we've been waiting for so long. Thanks GSL !!
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Just goes to show that Blizzard isn't the obstacle in esports' path; they won't help us (which is definitely stupid), but they won't obstruct it either. I don't know why so many people were predicting that they wouldn't allow custom maps in GSL.
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First map would be awesome to watch games on. If it ever turns into a turtle fest, I can enjoy the water.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2011 23:42 Boundless wrote:
Wow, that top map "Aiur Garden" looks disgusting.... Over 9000 chokepoints that can fit 2 units through at most. Welcome to more Tank/Viking TvT, hurrah for no progress!!!!
That being said, I do like that GSL is even thinking about changing up the maps, which shows that they are listening to player/pro feedback.
Edit: I just realized, the bottom one "Crossfire" is a remake of Peaks of Beakdu. That was one of my favourite BW maps. FTW!!!!
First you complain about chokes and then you say you like Crossfire? With mass tanks and anti-air on the Watchtower defending 4 bases will be super easy I guess 
Well anyway, do I understand right that these maps are nowhere near final but just examples of maps they look at?!
edit: By the way, with the new maps next season I might actually be interested in GSL again lol
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Thank god for the new maps, they should help out the Gls popularity alot. One question though, how do pro gamers practise on these maps if they arn't in the blizzard ladder system?
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Omg omg omg omg omg This is ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!
Thanks a ton GSL :D:D
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YES !!!! This is amazing
I
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Biohazard is published on EU ^^. Search for GSL Biohazard or Biohazard you should find it too bad you cant download the other maps
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
Biohazard has high yield gas?I mean look at the blueish geyser at the third.
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As everyone is saying; This is good news. Really good news.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 08 2011 23:50 swim224 wrote:
Thank god for the new maps, they should help out the Gls popularity alot. One question though, how do pro gamers practise on these maps if they arn't in the blizzard ladder system?
Pro gamers just use practice partners and make custom games, the maps are published in Korea atleast, so its np for them.
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Sweet.
Needs some iCCup but god damn I'll take anything over Steppes.
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Aiur Garden seems like an AWESOME map, the other ones are at least 1.5 times better than the ones that got removed.
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United Kingdom38156 Posts
This is amazing news, if it goes through the general standard of games should shoot right up. Even if it doesn't quite work out as we all hope, I'm very happy to see GOM taking the feedback about maps on board and changing things up =)
Awesome!
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good, very good, nothing else to say. Even if these turn out to be imbalanced, at least there's an initiative to change
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
Biohazard is on EU looking for people to play with....I'm a bronzie but I can hold my own.
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Just when I was getting bored of SC2 GSL and the majority of meh games... Now I MUST buy the next GSL season ticket!
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Why is Aiur Garden making me think BuildCarriersBuildCarriersBuildCarriers
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This is fantastic news. As people are saying - even if these maps turn out to be imbalanced, at least the GSL is moving in the right direction with the introduction of custom maps.
That said, I do like the look of the new maps, particularly Aiur Garden. But I'm not a good player, so I can't really see imbalances as well as some of you guys.
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as much as im happy for new maps, any zerg players feeling like 'where the hell am i supposed to get my third?' on some of the maps?
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Nice move by GomTV ! Next GSL will be epic
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Wow, and these maps actually looks amazing compared to the removed maps. I've been waiting for this forever... I hope it becomes easy enough to play these maps in pubs eventually.
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Wow, best news of today, the maps look awsome - just from a quick glance at the three new ones (I guess everyone knows crossfire?):
- very easy to take naturals should eliminate stupid one base timing attacks be overly easy to execute
- "kinda" easy to take third expansion should guarantee games going into macro-mode unless a player goes for a semi-all-in off two base
- no backdoor rocks (hell YES)
- all maps are symmetric: this is EXTREMELY important, a good, balanced map shouldn't have stupid shit like 3 different ways to play: perfect negative example would be metalopolis: close ground, close air and cross position are all different
Hopefully Blizz introduces the possibility to select these maps in Diamond league as well - shouldn't be too difficult technically to have different maps possible in different leagues, at least as long as the majority overlaps so "cross-league" play would still be very possible?
EDIT:
On January 09 2011 00:00 xza wrote:
as much as im happy for new maps, any zerg players feeling like 'where the hell am i supposed to get my third?' on some of the maps?
What? Depending on the spawning locations, there's always a third that's extremely easy to take and defend. On Aiur Garden and Amaroso the third is actually "free" on Biohazard you can expand away from your opponent so the entrance to your third would be on the opposite of your opponent's attack path
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You know what GOM, I never considered subscribing. It was out of the question.
But you're about to make watching SC2 fun for me again. So now I will.
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Looks like some of those maps are backdoor maps, I think Backdoor maps are trash. Frankly I dont like Crossfire because you can abuse the opponents natural from like 8 different tank locations without being a risk from units (its like desert oasis in that regard). And on top of that, every zerg player will roach rush and hit your backdoor where you wont have buildings to choke them.
But it is exciting to see some changes coming, it gives hope to the map making community and the players hope that some things will change.
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Well, maps are pretty ****ing cool. Hoping Scrap Station gets removed as well.
And we need iCCup's Princess Fortress II, that map is seriously badass.
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haha I actually didn't notice this before but I love the SOONtm. Didn't know you could do formatting in thread titles.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
lol Amoroso has 16 expos + 4 Gold Expos!!!
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This is awesome, especially about Crossfire since that map is frickin' great.
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Finally, the disgustingly horrible Alpha maps that have been ruining the game for so long are getting removed and replaced with actual good maps.
At least it didn't take very long. These are fantastic news.
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Those are some good maps, especially those first two.
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Wow, and the maps looked really cool and well made to. Luuve it!
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Thank the lord!
Now, lets also remove these maps from ladder :D
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IMHO, Aiur Garden SUCKS. Like, completly protected natural(jungle basin anyone?), super faraway thirds, and there is 3 bases per player spawn. How the hell are you supposed to play that, and people complain about DQ and JB?
The other three are really cool though, I'm just amused that x-fire is going into GSL but isn't in the ladder yet.
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Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps?
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Really glad this happening. Hopefully they'll be put on ladder too!
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looks sick! especially aiur garden. but biohazard looks a bit weird
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Yessss... More macro maps please...
I swear like every good macro game is on Shakuras... More macro maps would be amazing.
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Thank you, I was starting to lose hope after the GSL made the decision that players couldn't veto maps in season 3. One step backward, but 2 steps forwards now.
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On January 09 2011 00:13 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps?
We don't really know, but so far none of the reported candidates for new GSL maps are ICCUP. I really hope they pick at least 1 ICCUP maps. Those guys have put a lot of work into their maps and it would be nice to see them honored in this way since they really deserve it.
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Can't wait till we see some of these in play as they seem to promote methodical play rather than the normal, "hmmm I hope I have rock over his scissors..." Think the current maps we have are absolutely terrible for any sort of competitive play and for me personally I've been enjoying the GSL less and less to the point I skip a day here or there or just turn off the stream half way through.
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What's Blizzards response/reaction/statement?
I want to know what they say.
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Looks awesome and I love how crossfire made it in there!
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I'm sure the VODs of Gisado's Challenge are on gomtv.com, if a Korean speaker can navigate the website. They don't cost money so it's no worry to GomTV. Not sure if it's IP blocked though, last one wasn't.
Crossfire has some typical Blizzard positional imbalances--tanks can fire into mineral line from ledge--but obviously these changes are nothing short of wonderful even if they suck, like MorroW said.
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On January 09 2011 00:15 pzea469 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 00:13 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps? We don't really know, but so far none of the reported candidates for new GSL maps are ICCUP. I really hope they pick at least 1 ICCUP maps. Those guys have put a lot of work into their maps and it would be nice to see them honored in this way since they really deserve it.
I was watching Gisado when they were testing these maps and at one point Gisado did a search for ICCUP maps, but ended up not using them. That is not to say he didn't use them because they aren't good, and indeed I think any good map will be considered.
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On January 09 2011 00:18 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 00:15 pzea469 wrote:On January 09 2011 00:13 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps? We don't really know, but so far none of the reported candidates for new GSL maps are ICCUP. I really hope they pick at least 1 ICCUP maps. Those guys have put a lot of work into their maps and it would be nice to see them honored in this way since they really deserve it. I was watching Gisado when they were testing these maps and at one point Gisado did a search for ICCUP maps, but ended up not using them.
How are people watching gisado? I though it was restricted to korea.. Someone streaming at what times? Info please
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On January 09 2011 00:20 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 00:18 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2011 00:15 pzea469 wrote:On January 09 2011 00:13 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps? We don't really know, but so far none of the reported candidates for new GSL maps are ICCUP. I really hope they pick at least 1 ICCUP maps. Those guys have put a lot of work into their maps and it would be nice to see them honored in this way since they really deserve it. I was watching Gisado when they were testing these maps and at one point Gisado did a search for ICCUP maps, but ended up not using them. How are people watching gisado? I though it was restricted to korea.. Someone streaming at what times? Info please
you can download all the vods actually.
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I'm really excited about the changes, but the only map that really looks good to me is Biohazard, provided its big. A lot of the maps still look compact and restrictive.
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On January 09 2011 00:20 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 00:18 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2011 00:15 pzea469 wrote:On January 09 2011 00:13 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps? We don't really know, but so far none of the reported candidates for new GSL maps are ICCUP. I really hope they pick at least 1 ICCUP maps. Those guys have put a lot of work into their maps and it would be nice to see them honored in this way since they really deserve it. I was watching Gisado when they were testing these maps and at one point Gisado did a search for ICCUP maps, but ended up not using them. How are people watching gisado? I though it was restricted to korea.. Someone streaming at what times? Info please
Xeph (who made this thread) sometimes streams it.
http://www.own3d.tv/live/11888
That's his channel, but there are no guarantees.
Also, in my mind I don't care about the specifics of the maps. They could be horribly unbalanced trash maps. The important thing is that non-ladder and non-Blizzard maps will hopefully be being used.
Quality and balance is a secondary consideration, way behind the actual use of these maps in the GSL.
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really good news. Now all we need are iccup maps :D
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theres another frequently-used map on Gisado which is pretty weird with big ass size and all the expos being placed at the borderline
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:D!!!
Good bye steppes, you will NOT be missed.
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Brilliant brilliant news ! This looks soooo much better ! Finally biiig maps ! New strategis should come too and more intensive macro games ! Oh yes!!
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The maps look great in my non-professional opinion. And the news that they will be using a non-Blizzard mappool is even greater.
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First impression: THESE LOOK FUCKING AWESOME!
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On January 09 2011 00:17 decaf wrote:
What's Blizzards response/reaction/statement?
I want to know what they say.
Seeing that GSL is officially sponsored by Blizzard I would think Blizzard approved or even pushed for the changes.
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wow great great great, altho i dont find them all that good but it is a move in a positive direction
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OMG yes. I approve of these changes!
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lol, i love the super safe natural on aiur garden.
i think terran can go 14cc there 
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On January 08 2011 23:03 fatkatty wrote:
Hell yes! Hopefuly they will use community maps such as ICCup maps and Blizzard will finally take note and include those maps in their poop and remove the also remove the imba maps like delta,steps, etc.
LOL I'm so glad this didn't get edited yet. Maybe I'm immature but I cant stop laughing.
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Wow, awesome news! Aiur Garden looks pretty baller, especially with the fact that the natural expansion only can be attacked by air, or by entering the main first. Hopefully these maps will be quite huge, which will result in macro games.
Now It's IdrA's time to win atleast one GSL, macro games ahead!
+ Show Spoiler +BitByBitPrime is soooo screwed
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FINALLY YEAH! bigger maps would reward pros where control, multitasking is even more important
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On January 09 2011 00:17 decaf wrote:
What's Blizzards response/reaction/statement?
I want to know what they say.
Blizzard have been quite quiet as of late..
atleast towards the community.
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On January 09 2011 00:21 smileyyy wrote:
you can download all the vods actually.
Where exactly?
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Why would Blizzard react in any way? This blizzard anti macro map stance is completely imaginary; they merely wanted to make ladder map pool newbie friendly, not to enforce their map pools in tournaments.
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Best SC2 news this year by far.
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I just hope they start using GSL map pool for Ladder after this
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I am so fucking pumped i hope these are the new maps being added to the ladder map pool
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RAMPS THANK YOU! Amazing news for protoss and Zerg <3<3<3<3!
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On January 09 2011 00:39 Helvig wrote:+ Show Spoiler +BitByBitPrime is soooo screwed
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
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wohoo :D thats just great i hope we also see new maps for ladder play :S
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On January 09 2011 00:20 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 00:18 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2011 00:15 pzea469 wrote:On January 09 2011 00:13 Fruscainte wrote:
Wait, are some of these ICCUP maps? We don't really know, but so far none of the reported candidates for new GSL maps are ICCUP. I really hope they pick at least 1 ICCUP maps. Those guys have put a lot of work into their maps and it would be nice to see them honored in this way since they really deserve it. I was watching Gisado when they were testing these maps and at one point Gisado did a search for ICCUP maps, but ended up not using them. How are people watching gisado? I though it was restricted to korea.. Someone streaming at what times? Info please
I know a site that has the Gisado videos for download, since some people get horrible speeds to legitly stream from Korean servers.
But, it might be illegal, so I rather not link it in public. PM me if you want it.
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Glad it's finally happening. I still have my reservations about Crossfire so it's good that it is getting some play time. With a sensor tower behind your nat I just don't see Terran ever losing that map
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This is great news, hopefully the randomness will decrease in tournaments and we'll start to see true superstars emerge who have the best macro/multitasking/strategy, who are truly worthy of fans.
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Those maps look great for the most part, can't wait to see some games on them.
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Looks like good maps except crossfire, that one will be hell for zerg.
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On January 09 2011 00:59 wxwx wrote:
This is great news, hopefully the randomness will decrease in tournaments and we'll start to see true superstars emerge who have the best macro/multitasking/strategy, who are truly worthy of fans.
marine scv all in's do require intend multi tasking, micro, and strategy
On a more serious note we might finally see a zvp final
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Love it :D The second map reminds me of fightning spirit :D Loved that map!! :D
And of course peaks of beakdu remaked
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Amoroso and Biohazard looks very promising. Hope they deliver!
Oh and crossfire? psshhhhh. Just because it's better than some maps in the pool doesn't make it good. Just use another custom or even one of iccup maps!
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Uhm biohazard, bottom left only has 7 minerals? All others have 8 :p?
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HAHA
I just played on [GSL] Biohazard on EU. The bottom left main have one fewer mineral patches =)
I hope it's wrong version or will be fixed, seems like a good map other than that.
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Sounds great! I wonder if a trend towards larger maps will force the game to have to be re-balanced again? A lot of the patches throughout beta and onwards were to do with rush strategies... I also wonder how terran will fare overall in longer games.
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In my experience, froce fields and tanks are way too strong on Crossfire - none of the paths between the bases give you any breathing room.
Otherwise, the faster Steeps of All-In is removed, the better.
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On January 09 2011 01:06 kuroshiro wrote:
Sounds great! I wonder if a trend towards larger maps will force the game to have to be re-balanced again? A lot of the patches throughout beta and onwards were to do with rush strategies... I also wonder how terran will fare overall in longer games.
Yeah. Reapers will be considered supernerfed on these bigger maps.
And zerg will get better now...
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Looks like some maps.
*sunglasses*
Couldn't find their place.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
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Armonos has 16 blues and 4 golds but the other 4 player maps only have like 12+4 for total bases or significantly less total bases to go around
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FINALLY THANKS!
hope ladder maps get removed aswell
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On January 09 2011 01:06 Asagud wrote:
HAHA
I just played on [GSL] Biohazard on EU. The bottom left main have one fewer mineral patches =)
I hope it's wrong version or will be fixed, seems like a good map other than that.
That was fixed on KR server.
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On January 09 2011 01:10 Luckbox wrote:
Looks like some maps.
*sunglasses*
Couldn't find their place.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
That was actually pretty good. Haha.
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Aiur Garden only has 12 Blues as a 4 player map though
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On January 09 2011 01:10 Luckbox wrote:
Looks like some maps.
*sunglasses*
Couldn't find their place.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
LOL. Best post evar ^_^
Incidentally the three maps that are being removed are my three thumbs-downed maps Nice.
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Just played bio hazard vs a friend and that map is AWSOME...
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Some of those maps look so big that air power is almost required.
Will this finally bring protoss carriers and motherships out? Instant army warp to other side of the map ftw. Or rather, instant army warp back to main base from other side of the map ftw.
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We need all of the maps on EU.
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On January 09 2011 01:16 Tripal wrote:
We need all of the maps on EU.
Yeah is it actually possible to download the maps through Bnet ?. Or does the author has to upload the map. ? Biohazard was available to dl on the playxp thread so I published it. I want to play Amoroso though it looks pretty good
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On January 09 2011 01:04 Telcontar wrote:
Amoroso and Biohazard looks very promising. Hope they deliver!
Oh and crossfire? psshhhhh. Just because it's better than some maps in the pool doesn't make it good. Just use another custom or even one of iccup maps!
And that's why they're testing them for the next GSL season.
Crossfire seemed pretty good when I watched Gisado's stream at least so don't be so quick to judge without even giving it a chance :p
(And the iccup maps aren't perfect either like too many people in this thread seem to think, there's just extremely limited testing on them.)
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finally some map without tower and rocks!
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Nice loving this change! Really exciting news.
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Great news. There are 2 things that are really needed in new maps:
1) NO backdoors!!!!! Everyone hates them.
2) NO second base that is only accessible trough the main base (like in one of those 4 maps in the OP).
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On January 09 2011 01:21 GrazerRinge wrote:
finally some map without tower and rocks!
I actually like the mechanics revolved around the Xel'naga towers. It only adds to the gameplay so it's not bad in my opinion.
The new maps look great can't wait to see some top level players duke it out on these maps.
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Biohazard looks extremely tilted towards siege tank drops.
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On January 09 2011 01:21 Dente wrote:
Great news. There are 2 things that are really needed in new maps:
1) NO backdoors!!!!! Everyone hates them.
2) NO second base that is only accessible trough the main base (like in one of those 4 maps in the OP).
Well, only map that has backdoor (Crossfire) has a damn long run distance - meaning attacker has to run way way longer than defender, similiar to Jungle Basin.
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That's actually good news for a change
And those maps of the Gisado Star Challange look great.
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good to know, looking forward to these new maps
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This new is awesome. It's the beginning of competitions on reals maps.
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I don't even care if these maps favour one race or another, just having bigger maps will be such a breath of fresh air.
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Amoroso looks faaar too big, a lot bigger than iCCup Enigma which is already too large
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On January 09 2011 01:11 Xeph wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 01:06 Asagud wrote:
HAHA
I just played on [GSL] Biohazard on EU. The bottom left main have one fewer mineral patches =)
I hope it's wrong version or will be fixed, seems like a good map other than that. That was fixed on KR server.
Do you have a kr sc2 account ?. Could you download the 3 maps for us then ?:D
its actually pretty easy.
-Start the Map Editor
-File... Open.... Battle.net
- Log in
- Search for the maps easiest way play 1 custom game on them vs a.i so youll find them under recently played or search directly under map/mod name
- download
- Save
-Upload to any filehoster :D
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On January 09 2011 01:42 smileyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 01:11 Xeph wrote:On January 09 2011 01:06 Asagud wrote:
HAHA
I just played on [GSL] Biohazard on EU. The bottom left main have one fewer mineral patches =)
I hope it's wrong version or will be fixed, seems like a good map other than that. That was fixed on KR server. Do you have a kr sc2 account ?. Could you download the 3 maps for us then ?:D its actually pretty easy. -Start the Map Editor -File... Open.... Battle.net - Log in - Search for the maps easiest way play 1 custom game on them vs a.i so youll find them under recently played or search directly under map/mod name - download - Save -Upload to any filehoster :D
Okay, wait a sec.
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is the xelnaga watchtower on the first map in the water ? :O
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
On January 09 2011 01:39 Superouman wrote:
Amoroso looks faaar too big, a lot bigger than iCCup Enigma which is already too large
I've always felt that in SC2 8base macro=BW 4base macro.I think that making a map to prove that point was needed.At least for me.
but hey,this means people will stop complaining about Enigma if Amoroso becomes a hit.
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This is the greatest news I have ever heard relating to Star2
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Maybe SC2 needs bigger maps since the game is faster pace? It will certainly reduce the power of all-ins.
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If you want to see some of these maps in action, I've did some looking around with my very basic Korean and found VODS of the Gisado Star Challenge.
Instructions:
1. Go to http://www.gomtv.com/game/
2. Click on 기사도의 스타챌린지 (its on the same menu as the English text "GSL Jan"). VODs of each day of the Gisado Star Challenge will be displayed below.
3. Click on a picture of a VOD and press play. If you want to skip to a specific game, there is a playlist on the right.
The default resolution is 720p. If you have a problem, you can change it to SD by clicking on the text next to the play button and selecting the other option.
These VODs are not region restricted :D
EDIT: Crossfire is played in the 4th game of this series: http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404251
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Great news!! Before long the GSL maps will determine the Bnet ladder maps, instead of the other way around.
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Those maps look so sweet, yay for crossfire, and biohazard looks weird..
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It's pretty disgraceful that Blizzard only offered one decent map to replace all the shit ones they made, and GOM had to get unofficial map-makers to design better maps.
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Amorosor, one of the candidate maps, name is changed to Tal'Darim Altar
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On January 09 2011 01:51 bubblegumbo wrote:
It's pretty disgraceful that Blizzard only offered one decent map to replace all the shit ones they made, and GOM had to get unofficial map-makers to design better maps.
Blizzard didn't offer anything and I don't see why they should as there's a huge community and the tools to design exactly the kinds of maps you want
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i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss and terran will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup
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It's a start but i agree it can be better, and i'm sure it will
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On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup
Get on gisado and promote your (and iCCup) maps man! Talk to people! You gotta have someone who can speak/translate korean no? ^^
EDIT:
To poster below: Testbug imba
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Watching the Tal'Darim game on VOD atm, soo bored of this tileset.. any chance they could change it up? I know there's a few that haven't been used or are underused in 1v1.. throw some snow or lava at us or something, i duno.
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just came across this on reddit. Awesome!
Hope Blizz learns something fromt that and they will put some of these maps in their ladder pool
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On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss and terran will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup
What do you base all this off? Absolutely nothing? Lol. Wait to play the maps before criticizing
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The one thing that could put a hamper on this is if Blizzard won't put these in their map pool. If you recall they stated that they would prefer their map pool to be a balance between short games and long games. Since these maps mainly favor the macro style that is the most entertaining for spectators, Blizzard may not put these in the map pool. As such, this could become a huge problem for finding practice and the availability that SC2 has now. It will be hard for newbies to pick up the game if all the pro games are on different maps then the ladder ones.
While I am all for the new maps since they rock; basically the entire success of these new maps will depend on Blizzard's reaction. If they sync their map pool in some way, like say diamond and master league players play on GSL maps everyone else plays on crappy maps, then it will be smooth sailing. If not, then shit could get ugly.
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they should have a look at iccup maps too!
testbug for GSL 5 finals
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On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
Just played it and it seemes pretty awsome.
There are tiny passages but they dont do a whole lot. Only for reinforcement. You attack from other direction (from the middle).
You can drop the cliff at the nat, but it doesnt hit the mineral line and its so small that queen can walk into close range of siege tanks.
Just played TvZ on it (we both are around 3k) and even thou I tried exploiding the chokes as hard as possible with with siege tanks he still won. Yes he could only break me once he had broodlords, but thats pretty much always the case vs a terran who builds tanks.
The map feels awsome, only problem could be collusus. FFs are not better than on any blizzard map as long as you attack from the middle.
Im not saying the map is perfect, but damn it seems really good.
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Christmas came late in korea
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On January 09 2011 02:03 Toxiferous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss and terran will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup What do you base all this off? Absolutely nothing? Lol. Wait to play the maps before criticizing
He bases it off his knowledge and experience he gained becoming one of the best foreign bw mappers and the best foreign sc2 mapper.
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On January 09 2011 02:03 Toxiferous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss and terran will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup What do you base all this off? Absolutely nothing? Lol. Wait to play the maps before criticizing
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4Qcj5.jpg)
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Crossfire is somewhat of a copy of sinPeaksofBeakdu from BW. Here is the link for comparison LINK
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It looks like it's time for me to start kicking down some Korean doors!
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On January 09 2011 02:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
It looks like it's time for me to start kicking down some Korean doors!
No time to loose! Gogogoogogogogo
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Biohazard looks kinda nazi ^^
anyways, awesome change!
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United Kingdom38156 Posts
On January 09 2011 02:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
It looks like it's time for me to start kicking down some Korean doors!
I'd recommend you knock politely first, but yeah got onto them man you guys have some great maps and it'd be awesome if you could get them played on!
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On January 09 2011 01:45 TheLight wrote:If you want to see some of these maps in action, I've did some looking around with my very basic Korean and found VODS of the Gisado Star Challenge. Instructions: 1. Go to http://www.gomtv.com/game/2. Click on 기사도의 스타챌린지 (its on the same menu as the English text "GSL Jan"). VODs of each day of the Gisado Star Challenge will be displayed below. 3. Click on a picture of a VOD and press play. If you want to skip to a specific game, there is a playlist on the right. The default resolution is 720p. If you have a problem, you can change it to SD by clicking on the text next to the play button and selecting the other option. These VODs are not region restricted :DEDIT: Crossfire is played in the 4th game of this series: http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404251
I absolutely have to recommend watching these VODs. The whole game changes with these maps and it reminds me so much of BW.
The players seem to be a bit confused on how to play, though. It's like they forgot how to play on big maps, lol.
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On January 09 2011 02:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
It looks like it's time for me to start kicking down some Korean doors! I hope you can get through to them, im excited to see new maps but i definitely think some of the iccup maps would be better. Crossfire i like but im not to sure about the layout of the other three.
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Is it just me or do these maps look like they have a lot of narrow paths?
It's great however that SOMEONE'S at least trying.
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these maps look big...very big
>
sucks no iccup though =(
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On January 09 2011 02:16 Ownos wrote:
Is it just me or do these maps look like they have a lot of narrow paths?
Forcefield has to be usable to some extent but yes.. they have a lot of them, especially crossfire
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I LOOOOOOOVE IT Im soooooo happy for those who will participate to the next GSLs, the revolution has begun !
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both of the korean maps need to become more open else its gonna be insanily hard for zvp. just throwing it out there were probably going to see these maps get updated sooner or later. other than that i like the maps.
i still pray for iccup map to come xD
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On January 09 2011 02:14 village_idiot wrote:
I absolutely have to recommend watching these VODs. The whole game changes with these maps and it reminds me so much of BW.
The players seem to be a bit confused on how to play, though. It's like they forgot how to play on big maps, lol.
The Terran in the Tel' Darim Temple game looked a bit lost, the zerg clearly thought it was christmas and expanded lots, interesting layout with the natural and third on a fork like that.
Morrow has a map that he sometimes obs's / plays on his stream, that was very BW 'esque and played that way too. Lot's of little harrass and positioning rather than just clump ball attacks, hopefully these maps breed this type of thing too.
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Just watched a 17~ minute TvT with oGsTheStC against Journey on a custom not listed in the OP. It was excellent.
http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404251 < this is the 7th day of games. go back to the gomtv.com/game to see more.
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Wonderful. I have a feeling that maps are influencing play style even more than balance issues, and with certain maps, not going for almost cheesy aggression is stupid – so using maps that reward long-term play and make cheese harder is the perfect way to make the game a better viewing experience.
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On January 09 2011 02:19 MorroW wrote:
both of the korean maps need to become more open else its gonna be insanily hard for zvp. just throwing it out there were probably going to see these maps get updated sooner or later. other than that i like the maps.
i still pray for iccup map to come xD
Thank you, having your support means a lot!
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My 1st impression of these map as a zerg was "wow, so mnay chokes and no way to surround.... there is no way !!"
then i read 11 pages of "OMFG MAP LOVE YEAH!!!!!!!" so i took a second more in depth look at them. I agree they are awesome. UNlike the current small maps, when there is a choke thats it. you HAVE to fight through the choke. on these larger maps there seem to always be multiple directions a zerg can attack from.
so instead of one big army you have a couple smaller armies trying to come in at different angles. I see uses for the Nydus worm that go behond "pop into base, or use to run away". I see drop ships doing somehting besides a mineral line drop. thats just the few things that popped into my head, im sure there are a lot more interesting tactics to discover.
and of course once new tactics come to the surface then new maps will agian evolve. IMO i think blizzard started with basic simple maps on purpose.
i think we will see alot of the base game play mechanics take on new life with new maps.
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Crossfire is just about a perfect replica of Peaks of Baekdu with narrower central pathways. Hardly even deserves an original name.
Amoroso looks like it has nice balance potential. Nice and big for zergs, easy 3rd expansion for T and P. Seems like it would really encourage a macro game.
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wow this is huge! This makes me pray that blizzard will maybe add these maps to the pool on ladder would be awesome .
Very excited! GJ gom :D
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On January 09 2011 02:03 Toxiferous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss and terran will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup What do you base all this off? Absolutely nothing? Lol. Wait to play the maps before criticizing
I base this on my own experience of the game, how the chokes, open areas, expo layout, distances work. Of course i'm not almighty and flawless and i write some wrong things.
On January 09 2011 02:09 Nightmarjoo wrote:
He bases it off his knowledge and experience he gained becoming one of the best foreign bw mappers and the best foreign sc2 mapper.
On January 09 2011 02:09 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 02:03 Toxiferous wrote:On January 09 2011 01:57 Superouman wrote:
i don't like the way the middle is involved in aiur garden
you just pass , you don't battle there.
expo layout is okay
amoroso looks 2x bigger than enigma. huge open middle, even tight paths are large? expo layout too safe for zergs compared to the map size. really, REALLY hard time for terran in zvt
biohasard (wtf so ugly for a kor map)it LOOKS like there is a tiny passage from the nat to the central third, i can't see a zerg break this expo without broodlords. and against zerg, you can annoy him with tanks and colo and probably drops on that pod.
i hope you can't land units on nat cliff, it would be so retarded if you can because you would stop any aggression directly from opponent's base
protoss and terran will never try to go through the middle since he has so many tight tight paths. I don't like this map at all
crossfire: i never liked it, double sized ramp (srsly stop this shit), i don't see any danger from the "backdoor" which is on the front. awful nat placement. the paths tooooo choked and tight, expo layout is okay
the best map imo is aiur garden and i don't like it very much, it is just okay. as a zerg player i obviously play on amoroso all day since it's nearly freewin on any matchup What do you base all this off? Absolutely nothing? Lol. Wait to play the maps before criticizing + Show Spoiler +
Stop it, its too embarassing >.<
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Blizzard have clearly stated that hey want small maps in the pool. I think it's to appeal to the casual gamer so they can have quick 5-10 minute matches and go about their day.
Soooo.. I wonder if Blizz could cut these competitively bad maps out of the main ladder pool and instead have a 'quick-game' option that matches you up against someone with your ladder ranking, in a non-ladder match, on a selection of the smaller maps?
This might appease both sides to some extent. I guess it would be tricky for people just starting out, but hey, gotta break eggs to make soufflee. or something.
Edit: Actually perhaps all that's needed is the ability to use the match-making system within a custom game. Then all it takes is the map to actually be popular for it to work...
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This is ridiculously awesome. Hopefully these maps will get uploaded to the servers soon so we can go try them out!
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I think they could be a bit better, but this is a HUGE step in the right direction. Very exciting. Props to GOM for listening.
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On January 08 2011 23:01 cilinder007 wrote:they wont remove scrap station ?!!? (
scrap is not NEARLY as bad as the ones they are pulling.
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On January 09 2011 02:38 Cofo wrote:
I think they could be a bit better, but this is a HUGE step in the right direction. Very exciting. Props to GOM for listening.
With pros playing on them they would be able to get nice and balanced map pool in no time now that they are no longer restricted to ladder maps
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On January 09 2011 02:34 kuroshiro wrote:Blizzard have clearly stated that hey want small maps in the pool. I think it's to appeal to the casual gamer so they can have quick 5-10 minute matches and go about their day. Soooo.. I wonder if Blizz could cut these competitively bad maps out of the main ladder pool and instead have a 'quick-game' option that matches you up against someone with your ladder ranking, in a non-ladder match, on a selection of the smaller maps? This might appease both sides to some extent. I guess it would be tricky for people just starting out, but hey, gotta break eggs to make soufflee. or something. Edit: Actually perhaps all that's needed is the ability to use the match-making system within a custom game. Then all it takes is the map to actually be popular for it to work...
Simple solution is to have a varied map pool which changes per division, so diamonds can have a larger map selection with more varied/bigger maps, and a smaller pool in lower divisions which gets rotated somewhat frequently to keep the absolute number of maps smaller and easier to learn, without denying them the ability to play on the higher division maps.
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These maps look awsome, this is great news.
Really hate some of those damn ladder maps...
Seems like a good idea, to not just replace ALL ladder maps - but just the worst ones.
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On January 09 2011 01:45 mmdmmd wrote:
Maybe SC2 needs bigger maps since the game is faster pace? It will certainly reduce the power of all-ins.
And the units move way faster too. Speed roaches and speed lings even off creep... no such thing as "out of position" for them. -_-
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This is amazingly awesome news, but they still need to do something about close position LT and Metalopolis. If they start doing custom maps, I don't see why they can't just do a custom version of these 2 maps without the close spawn as an option.
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Are these maps uploaded anywhere yet for NA server or just a download so we can try them out?
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I wonder what the rotation in the GSL will be like. New maps every season is almost certainly to quickly of a rotation for people to learn the maps well. Should be interesting to see.
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On January 09 2011 02:45 Lonyo wrote:
Simple solution is to have a varied map pool which changes per division, so diamonds can have a larger map selection with more varied/bigger maps, and a smaller pool in lower divisions which gets rotated somewhat frequently to keep the absolute number of maps smaller and easier to learn, without denying them the ability to play on the higher division maps.
No, terrible idea. Just because some of us are bronze doesn't mean we should get less maps and less varied maps. We already suck at the game, why handicap us further should we ever get promoted by having maps we are unfamiliar with only to get us relegated again. Plus we aren't all windows lickers looking to have our hands held, we paid the same as you, and we want to play the same game too. If we suck, we suck, that's our problem, let us worry about that, you worry about your own stuff.
I realise you said rotate, that buts not useful either. The map pool should be the same across the board, in order to keep it fair and balanced for everyone.
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Alright they have earned my money for Season 4
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On January 09 2011 02:43 charlie420247 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 23:01 cilinder007 wrote:they wont remove scrap station ?!!? ( scrap is not NEARLY as bad as the ones they are pulling.
scrap is a horrible map. Mutas need 2 seconds to go kill all my probes, go have a drink, go party at a club and then come back to defend his own base. Its easy for zerg to take their 2nd expo without trouble but hard as hell for Terran/toss without the risk of dying to pressure.
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Wow sick news!!! Awesome move by GomTV, I am glad that they are listening to the community, we needed some changes!!!
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On January 09 2011 00:46 syllogism wrote:
Why would Blizzard react in any way? This blizzard anti macro map stance is completely imaginary; they merely wanted to make ladder map pool newbie friendly, not to enforce their map pools in tournaments.
I doubt they'll say anything at all. They've handed Gom the keys, and it's becoming more and more likely that the only reason Gom has the keys and not Kespa is that if blizzard asks Gom to jump, Gom will ask how high. (whereas KeSPa's response is more "you first.")
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On January 09 2011 02:57 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 02:43 charlie420247 wrote:On January 08 2011 23:01 cilinder007 wrote:they wont remove scrap station ?!!? ( scrap is not NEARLY as bad as the ones they are pulling. scrap is a horrible map.
Not nearly as bad as Steppes and Delta.
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Most of them seem to have a very awkward 3rd. Maybe it wont be bad if the maps aré big enough.
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crossfire is perhaps the worst starcraft map i have ever played.
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well, a great news indeed! I hope to see them in action very soon :D
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On January 09 2011 02:38 Cofo wrote:
I think they could be a bit better, but this is a HUGE step in the right direction. Very exciting. Props to GOM for listening.
What's important is that they are using non-blizzard maps, this opens the door for so many great developers (this is iCCup's chance!) to have their maps see tournament play. AWESOME! :D
I'm a happy nerd now.
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On January 09 2011 03:07 a176 wrote:
crossfire is perhaps the worst starcraft map i have ever played.
I found it lovely when I played it a few months back. Dunno
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On January 09 2011 02:12 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
It looks like it's time for me to start kicking down some Korean doors!
Do it! Do it!
I really wish that GomTV will consider some foreign maps (other than blizzard's), Iccup has great maps.
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happy: that they are reaching out and changing maps
sad: those maps suck dick, although by taking the mineral fields as a measurment tool the maps are quite large, almost as big as shakuras, however, for zerg they are 2base maps-- there is no good positioned 3rd, i'm not saying "safe' but it heavily favors terran/toss for taking 3rds.
From a zerg (pov)
Only time will tell, but once again I love that gsl realized that maps like delta quad, steppes, blist sands, and hmm (4th is prlly jungle basin) are just bad maps in general. Delta quad could be a good map if it was made bigger, and the cliffs weren't so overarching. Moreover, steppes is just lol small, sands is a shifter map--IE its good for zerg early/early-mid game, then quickly shifts terran favored afterwards. As for vs toss you might as well f10->surrender. Basin, no comment. Cool map, its just terribly designed.
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On January 09 2011 03:07 a176 wrote:
crossfire is perhaps the worst starcraft map i have ever played.
I thought it was an epic stage for the Holy War.
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HOLY SHI
This is f*cking amazing news!
Shows that GSL really does listen to the community! (And hopefully blizzard will follow suit...)
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Wow! Amazing initiative. Very exciting!
I do have some skepticism of the maps, but I'll stick em' in a spoiler to not ruin the mood. Keep in mind these are speculation, I can't know until they're played.
+ Show Spoiler +Auir Garden
The third is so choked to get to it will be too easy to P or T to push in a take it out. The center is the only decent place for late game Z to fight, considering the entire path to 3rd is also choked. Terran or Protoss can also wall the map to their liking, and in some positions defend 3 bases from a 2x ramp...
Colossi will be killed far far too easily on this map because of the wasted space. Air will dominate for this reason, especially considering the air-harass natural. Paths are too windy and choked, making late game fights very difficult for Z to surround or flanks. And there are no side paths.
Tal'Darim Altar
This map is cool, but its too frickin' big. Its going to be a turtle fest. The rush distance is by far bigger than any map we've ever imagined because of the windy main/nat/third. Again the third seems too choked, and will make holding it very difficult in ZvT or ZvP.
Biohazard
This is such an ugly map. The terrain and textures are just sloppy. They're just solid colors randomly in different areas, and ugly lowered/raised terrain. On a side note (map fail): gas geysers can glitch when they're placed that close.
That third is so choked, its absurd. Normally it could be okay, but considering there is really no open space elsewhere; its not. This map is unbelievably choked up and will make P or T very happy, unless air comes out.
Crossfire
We've had this map for a while, its nice. The flow just doesn't work in sc2though (its a slightly changed remake of Peaks of Baekdu). The natural is awkward to hold, and the main has a 2x ramp. The center is also very choked, which makes battles retreat back to natural which is the open area. Thirds are too easy to hold once you get them, they're just a 1x ramp, and very far out of the way.
edit//: Please let the fourth map replacement be Jungle Basin!!
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This is great, not only the maps themselves (for the most part) but the fact that this ball is now i motion.
I love the 3 4player maps. However im a bit sceptical about the 2player map. Looks like a labyrinth of chokes and ramps. But i think there needs to be atleast one "fucked up" map in a mappool to make things interesting.
The 2 divided middle plateaus looks like they could provide som interesting situations.
Overall im very pleased about this and cant wait to see more matches on them.
To bad the biohazard thats on EU customs is flawed with fewer mineralpatches in the south positions. Wanna play it.
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Amazing news! Finally the majority of games can become decent or great!
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BRILLIANT!
I'm so happy that these maps are coming on the scene, even if they suck it's a step in the right direction.
How many truly GOOD maps do we have now?
Metalopolis?
Xel'Naga?
Shakuras?
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Really glad to see GOM taking this first step. We'll have to see how the maps play out, but at least they are showing they are willing to improve things over time like this
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i want these in the blizz map pool!!
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Awesomeeeeeeeeeee
Crossfire has always been the best blizzard map I think, and the other 3 look good at a first glance as well.
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Hell yes!!!
Great initiative GOM. I'm absolutely happy to hear this.
And I just love new maps. Time will tell how good they are. But fresh maps are always welcome.
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WOW! this news bring the image of Bruce Buffer (the UFC annoucer) shouting: "IIIIIIIIIIITTS TIIIIMMEE!!!" in my head
so nice
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FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a god!
I love you all here. Im sure the tons of threads had to have some impact.
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On January 09 2011 03:21 cocaineduck wrote:
This is great, not only the maps themselves (for the most part) but the fact that this ball is now i motion.
I love the 3 4player maps. However im a bit sceptical about the 2player map. Looks like a labyrinth of chokes and ramps. But i think there needs to be atleast one "fucked up" map in a mappool to make things interesting.
The 2 divided middle plateaus looks like they could provide som interesting situations.
Overall im very pleased about this and cant wait to see more matches on them.
To bad the biohazard thats on EU customs is flawed with fewer mineralpatches in the south positions. Wanna play it.
its not flawed anymore I reuploaded the latest version Xeph sent it to me.
I have the other 2 maps too.. but there are locked and I totally forgot that Blizz changed the protection system :D. Now Im googling how to unluck them. Since chances are small that the original creator is gonna upload them on the non-korean servers anytime soon.
Yeah Bnet 0.2 ....
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Thank god. Now if we can only get the tsl to switch some of their maps out...
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On January 09 2011 03:33 smileyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 03:21 cocaineduck wrote:
This is great, not only the maps themselves (for the most part) but the fact that this ball is now i motion.
I love the 3 4player maps. However im a bit sceptical about the 2player map. Looks like a labyrinth of chokes and ramps. But i think there needs to be atleast one "fucked up" map in a mappool to make things interesting.
The 2 divided middle plateaus looks like they could provide som interesting situations.
Overall im very pleased about this and cant wait to see more matches on them.
To bad the biohazard thats on EU customs is flawed with fewer mineralpatches in the south positions. Wanna play it. its not flawed anymore I reuploaded the latest version Xeph sent it to me. I have the other 2 maps too.. but there are locked and I totally forgot that Blizz changed the protection system :D. Now Im googling how to unluck them. Since chances are small that the original creator is gonna upload them on the non-korean servers anytime soon. Yeah Bnet 0.2 ....
But.. but.. I just downloaded it? Gonna have to go treasure hunt again then.
much <3 if you get the others up there aswell man. Much <3.
Edit: Found it! Good stuff.
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Our prayers (qq threads) have been answered. There is a light at the end of the tunnel (instead of an scv all in). Creative macro play will flourish (you had a nice run bitbybit) There is a god (or at least someone with a brain in charge at gsl) Idra is somewhere with eyes watering in joy (He will need a new excuse for not winning everything) Kerragin's evil laugh can be heard echoing through parsecs of space (raynor just shit his pants)
Only one thing comes to mind to say to the fine people running the gsl: THANK YOU!
Edit: good creep spread allows for sound in space
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4 new maps ehh...
They all look the same, filled with narrow paths and chokes.
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This is great news! I especially like the look of Aiur Garden.
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Aiur actually reminds me of fighting spirit.
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Can't wait. All of these maps are so epic! :D :D
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Now if we could get these in the ladder map pooolll
I would shit my pants.
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On January 09 2011 01:45 TheLight wrote:If you want to see some of these maps in action, I've did some looking around with my very basic Korean and found VODS of the Gisado Star Challenge. Instructions: 1. Go to http://www.gomtv.com/game/2. Click on 기사도의 스타챌린지 (its on the same menu as the English text "GSL Jan"). VODs of each day of the Gisado Star Challenge will be displayed below. 3. Click on a picture of a VOD and press play. If you want to skip to a specific game, there is a playlist on the right. The default resolution is 720p. If you have a problem, you can change it to SD by clicking on the text next to the play button and selecting the other option. These VODs are not region restricted :DEDIT: Crossfire is played in the 4th game of this series: http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404251
I cant get the site to load.
Anyone else with this problem?
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awesome!!!!!!!!!
dont like the crossfire but the rest seems to be able to produce some epic game :DDD
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can't comment on whether the maps are good or not, but it's always great to see a change in map pool, and given that the old map pool wasn't exactly... good, it's great that GOM is taking the initiative to do so.
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Oh god this is the BEST news I've heard in months regarding SC2! I may even start playing the game again if some of the maps get moved into the battle.net ladder pool (Am I hoping for too much here? Haha). And to those who still scream for iCCup maps and want people to just use them blindly, do you really want people to use them even if they're bad? I'm not saying they're any worse than the current ladder pool, but in the end I just want GOOD maps. Who cares where they come from!?
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On January 09 2011 03:48 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 01:45 TheLight wrote:If you want to see some of these maps in action, I've did some looking around with my very basic Korean and found VODS of the Gisado Star Challenge. Instructions: 1. Go to http://www.gomtv.com/game/2. Click on 기사도의 스타챌린지 (its on the same menu as the English text "GSL Jan"). VODs of each day of the Gisado Star Challenge will be displayed below. 3. Click on a picture of a VOD and press play. If you want to skip to a specific game, there is a playlist on the right. The default resolution is 720p. If you have a problem, you can change it to SD by clicking on the text next to the play button and selecting the other option. These VODs are not region restricted :DEDIT: Crossfire is played in the 4th game of this series: http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404251 I cant get the site to load. Anyone else with this problem?
Nope, works for me. Not watchable in EU though, unless you buffer it for at least an hour.
It will be interesting to see what will happen to the ladder after custom maps take over. Unless Blizzard actively keeps adding and removing maps, I think the ladder will eventually be deserted. Sure, those players that don't really care about 'serious' play might keep around, but the number of those people (dare I say, casuals?) will decline as the game ages. There will be no more reason to play on ladder as the only real function it currently has is practicing the maps. Time will tell, I guess, but interesting nontheless.
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Anyone know where I can download these maps?
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Wow this is so great. Maps look really great and crossfire is realy good blizzard map !!
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I don't fully agree with the maps, but atleast people are finally doing something.
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Anyone else notice Crossfire looks like Peaks of Baekdu?
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This seems like a huge zerg buff. Hopefully blizzard will adopt some of these maps into the rotation so that the balance team can see the results.
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fuck why are they removing delta quadrant.
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On January 09 2011 04:01 WniO wrote:
fuck why are they removing delta quadrant.
troll? lol.
I can't wait to try the maps out myself. Someone upload to NA or mediafire or something from KR please!
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On January 09 2011 03:33 smileyyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 03:21 cocaineduck wrote:
This is great, not only the maps themselves (for the most part) but the fact that this ball is now i motion.
I love the 3 4player maps. However im a bit sceptical about the 2player map. Looks like a labyrinth of chokes and ramps. But i think there needs to be atleast one "fucked up" map in a mappool to make things interesting.
The 2 divided middle plateaus looks like they could provide som interesting situations.
Overall im very pleased about this and cant wait to see more matches on them.
To bad the biohazard thats on EU customs is flawed with fewer mineralpatches in the south positions. Wanna play it. its not flawed anymore I reuploaded the latest version Xeph sent it to me. I have the other 2 maps too.. but there are locked and I totally forgot that Blizz changed the protection system :D. Now Im googling how to unluck them. Since chances are small that the original creator is gonna upload them on the non-korean servers anytime soon. Yeah Bnet 0.2 ....
smileyyy is working on those new maps. Contact smileyyy if you have NA account and have knowledge on maps. I sent unlocked Biohazard II and locked Tal'Darim Altar and Aiur Garden to smileyyy.
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I really hope this comes to fruition. It will do wonders for the GSL and deffinatley spice up the event.
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Great news. Lets go ahead and throw them on the ladder while were at it
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On January 09 2011 03:46 XXXSmOke wrote:
Now if we could get these in the ladder map pooolll
I would shit my pants.
they probably will when players start practicing on these maps. if blizzard doesn't add them to the ladder then the community will make their own ladder. esports is too important to be left in the hands of blizzard anyways.
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Does Crossfire remind anyone of Peaks of Baekdu? And is it just me, or are these maps significantly bigger than ones before?
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On January 09 2011 04:00 Wr3k wrote:
This seems like a huge zerg buff. Hopefully blizzard will adopt some of these maps into the rotation so that the balance team can see the results.
Actually, it will be a protoss buff I think. If you think 4 gate is dumb, wait for 4 gate with proxy pylons on a huge map where the opponent needs to run miles to get to your base, while your warping in in his.
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Great fucking news. If GSL does it more tournaments will, and we'll leave the cheesefest of GSL 3 and 4. Can't wait to see these implemented.
Though I'll miss seeing a Z winning close positions on Delta against the odds, cheese or not lol
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Yeah, I watched some Gisado games on these maps. Crossfire, the Peaks of Baedu remake, is an amazingly bad map. You wouldn't expect it, but with lings being so fast, and some positional imbalances in the map, it's horrendous. . It'd at least need to be tweaked to fix the top right ramp.
Biohazard is by far my favorite out of the group.
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NICE hope that unknown map is JUNGLE BASIN
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YES Thank God, now we'll see some great games.
I hope Blizzard puts these in Ladder soon.
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finally..i love them all <3
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Best news I've heard all year!
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On January 09 2011 04:07 Xeph wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 03:33 smileyyy wrote:On January 09 2011 03:21 cocaineduck wrote:
This is great, not only the maps themselves (for the most part) but the fact that this ball is now i motion.
I love the 3 4player maps. However im a bit sceptical about the 2player map. Looks like a labyrinth of chokes and ramps. But i think there needs to be atleast one "fucked up" map in a mappool to make things interesting.
The 2 divided middle plateaus looks like they could provide som interesting situations.
Overall im very pleased about this and cant wait to see more matches on them.
To bad the biohazard thats on EU customs is flawed with fewer mineralpatches in the south positions. Wanna play it. its not flawed anymore I reuploaded the latest version Xeph sent it to me. I have the other 2 maps too.. but there are locked and I totally forgot that Blizz changed the protection system :D. Now Im googling how to unluck them. Since chances are small that the original creator is gonna upload them on the non-korean servers anytime soon. Yeah Bnet 0.2 .... smileyyy is working on those new maps. Contact smileyyy if you have NA account and have knowledge on maps. I sent unlocked Biohazard II and locked Tal'Darim Altar and Aiur Garden to smileyyy.
yeah its done now. I uploaded all 3 now
just search for gsl and you will find them on EU whoever wants to upload them on na pm
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This is fucking amazing, FUCK YES.
After finally realizing how boring the same size maps over and over again are I looked into how the rest of the community felt about the maps and what I found was:
Larger
More Expos
NEW ANYTHING PLEASE GOD WHY.
And even though the ladder probably won't change >< at least other tournies can use these as acceptable "known" maps. That way players will know which addition maps to practice.
Thank you GSL.
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this would be amazing to see, glad to see they are taking the initiative of finding new maps if blizzard won't replace them. hope these turn out to be good maps this could be just the thing the community is looking for in terms of getting new maps recognized.
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On January 09 2011 04:14 Odoakar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 04:00 Wr3k wrote:
This seems like a huge zerg buff. Hopefully blizzard will adopt some of these maps into the rotation so that the balance team can see the results. Actually, it will be a protoss buff I think. If you think 4 gate is dumb, wait for 4 gate with proxy pylons on a huge map where the opponent needs to run miles to get to your base, while your warping in in his.
Its a buff for all of the races. Zerg is safer earlier, toss can really take advantage of their warp in, and terran will be able to build huge mech armies off of multiple gas, while being able to use 2 seige tanks to defend an expo where other races need armies.
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How is zerg safer earlier if the proxy pylon completely negates the distance buffer?
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I don't really care about the balance of the maps. Its really the principle. Maps sucked, and they did something about them.
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FINALLY! great news here, perhaps that will help GSL again!
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On January 09 2011 04:37 Odoakar wrote:
How is zerg safer earlier if the proxy pylon completely negates the distance buffer? warp gate tech isn't really "early."
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On January 09 2011 04:39 greycubed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 04:37 Odoakar wrote:
How is zerg safer earlier if the proxy pylon completely negates the distance buffer? warp gate tech isn't really "early."
Korean 4 gate warp in can be quite 'early'.
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On January 09 2011 04:37 Odoakar wrote:
How is zerg safer earlier if the proxy pylon completely negates the distance buffer?
Its more about easily defendable naturals than distance when it comes to holding off a 4 gate. PvP will still be a cluster fuck but hey being able to use static D is a good thing.
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wow those maps are freaking huge and epic games will be delivered!
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On January 09 2011 04:37 Odoakar wrote:
How is zerg safer earlier if the proxy pylon completely negates the distance buffer?
Well from what I have seen on larger maps it helps is a variety of ways.
If you kill the pylon and probe, it will take much longer for a new probe to come and plant a new pylon. It requires a bit more scouting for the probe/pylon but if you catch a Toss offguard and get them both on a large map the rush is over more or less.
Also it seems that most Toss players favor 16 Nex or Forge FE's on large maps. Shakuras is an example of a Blizz map showing the same thing, as well as customs have shown this too.
You can also be more liberal with your overlord placement. You can get vision over your section of the map quite easily (to probe/pylon scout). If the Protoss hunts down all your ovies it will take them forever to actually attack as they will be spread further compared to the smaller maps like Steppes.
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how is idra going to practice these maps without a team to practice wtih? Get on the ball EG!
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Lol idra hated those maps so much. He is probably jumping for joy.
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On January 09 2011 04:14 Odoakar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 04:00 Wr3k wrote:
This seems like a huge zerg buff. Hopefully blizzard will adopt some of these maps into the rotation so that the balance team can see the results. Actually, it will be a protoss buff I think. If you think 4 gate is dumb, wait for 4 gate with proxy pylons on a huge map where the opponent needs to run miles to get to your base, while your warping in in his.
If worker distances are high enough, by the time korean 4-gate starts working zerg will probably have had enough time to mount a defense. 4-gate might also pass from being cheese to having a strong follow-up, since countering it won't mean instant GG in a counterattack.
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YES!! this is AWESOME!! this means that Blizzard is being pushed to make a move about the map pool in ladder games :D!!!
Very good move by GomTV
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When is blizzard going to release new ladder maps?
btw these maps are great ^^
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I just hope whatever maps are used in the GSL are used in the ladder map pool, and other sc2 tournaments use the same pool.
I've played on crossfire quite a bit with my friends its pretty fun.
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This really begs the question of how close GOM are tied to Blizzard. I had thought up until now that GOM virtually *are* Blizzard for all intents and purposes (I blamed the change of policy on thumbs-downing GSL maps on this - reasoning that blizz must have wanted tournament stats on the un-used maps).
But I think this changes my perception a little bit... and it makes me doubt that Blizz will be making any of their own changes to their map pool map-size policy any time soon. If GOM had any assurances from Blizz about an improvement in the pool they would just sit back and wait instead of trialling their own maps. I haven't heard anything from blizzard about changes or initiatives to bring community maps in either so...
Well that's my latest 2c.
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On January 08 2011 23:04 MorroW wrote:
thats absolutely amazing news. idont even care if the new maps are just as garbage because this shows signs of gsl listening to the community and taking a new step in sc2 history
This x 10000. Its the first step that somebody had to take and im glad its the GSL. I also dont care if my race looses on all the maps. If the korean community starts balancing the game by using maps there's just no way sc2 will fail. Thats the biggest thing holding sc2 back IMO.
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Good god these maps are beautiful :O
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I don't know why but the sentence "Hell, it's about time!" can be used to describe nearly every news regarding SC2.
Is Blizzard so slow or are we just too impatient?
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Good work GSL unlike most of the community I knew that new maps would start at the tourney scene not the community QQing.
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they actually look like playable maps! Yay I might actually start up sc2 again if these (or other large maps) get played in the community. 3 cheers for korea!
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On January 09 2011 04:12 Archaic wrote:
Does Crossfire remind anyone of Peaks of Baekdu? And is it just me, or are these maps significantly bigger than ones before?
That's cause its a remake, and yes they're bigger maps.
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These maps look soooo much better than some of the ones in ladder atm. Somehow I don't think bigger maps fix pvp very well though, only thing that might fix it is multiple tiers of small ramps so the defender can fall back if they miss a forcefield.
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WEHOOO I CANT WAIT TO PLAY EM!!!
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Hmm while i cant speak upon the functionality of these maps until i play on them my self, Im just glad someones trying to improve the map pool.
Tho it makes a lot of since, Gom is the only other big company that can help directly change the map pool.
Also if, Gom's maps become popular, given there relationship with blizzard, its possible that some of them could even be implemented on to the ladder.
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I uploaded them on USA server incase no one did yet.
Search "GSL".
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Oh nice map Biohazard it's so cool !
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like the first map and crossfire was fun to play. But I will miss steppes of war tvt. second one looks like zerg free win X.X on a first check, but looking closer i think it could be a nice tvz macro map. But the terran could probably defend the 2-3 gold expos that would be evil hehe.
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I just played a game on 3 of the maps. To me, it felt like a huge difference in gameplay. 200 Supply attacks t seem to be working less good, instead controlling the map by harassing and such feels a lot stronger.
Maps like these will probably change the current metagame a lot, and I like it so far.
Btw. it seems to be possible to play the maps if you just join a public game. A few people actually want to test them at the moment, so you will most likely not wait too long.
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crossfire is actually alot like destination, just shaped a little differently.
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i hope they're gonna try iccup maps, tell them!
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I love you GOM. This is the best Christmas present ever.
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thanks for doing this GOM, just keep a good eye on your maps and keep them up to date please ;D.. this is a great step forward, and I am glad you guys are taking it.
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I don't understand why people can't find the maps?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t6XPM.jpg)
They show up for me. Did I do something wrong?
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On January 09 2011 05:52 SCC-Faust wrote:I don't understand why people can't find the maps? They show up for me. Did I do something wrong?
They are there. But ppl might be looking for games to join instead of trying to create and searching.
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On January 09 2011 05:52 SCC-Faust wrote:I don't understand why people can't find the maps? They show up for me. Did I do something wrong?
Those maps dont show up for me when i search GSL
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You on EU or US?
Edit: Never mind, saw you where talking about US. Im EU so..
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First two maps are wayyyyyy too big and third map seems iffy but I like crossfire in there.
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Wow this is great news! Love this!, very interesting maps too similar to OSL / MSL. :D GSL 4! Can't waiit!
On January 09 2011 05:58 neobowman wrote:
First two maps are wayyyyyy too big and third map seems iffy but I like crossfire in there.
....
But the problem with the current is they are too small..
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They don't show up for me as well
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On January 09 2011 05:59 NuKedUFirst wrote:Wow this is great news! Love this!, very interesting maps too similar to OSL / MSL. :D GSL 4! Can't waiit! Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 05:58 neobowman wrote:
First two maps are wayyyyyy too big and third map seems iffy but I like crossfire in there. .... But the problem with the current is they are too small..
Yeah, lets make an infinite map them, and everything will be perfect.
Stupid logic, perhaps the maps are a little to big, but I feel they are okay, much better than the one we had anyway.
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Hmm... not showing up for me. Would really like to play a game!
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I just played a few on that map, i think were gonna see way cooler GSL games in the future.
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US server, and I have no clue why they aren't showing up x_x
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The maps might seem "too big" for people at first but I think we will all find ways to play that accommodates this size, and we will be treated to many epic games as our reward.
Gom, I never should have doubted you. I'm glad I always buy season tickets.
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Nothing for me
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3685/searchresultse.jpg)
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Found the problem, updating them now as we speak.
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Okay you can find them now. It turns out I'm a retard.
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51398 Posts
On January 09 2011 05:42 Cha1R wrote:
crossfire is actually alot like destination, just shaped a little differently.
it's a direct port of Sin Peaks of Baekdu.
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On January 09 2011 06:06 Turgid wrote:
The maps might seem "too big" for people at first but I think we will all find ways to play that accommodates this size, and we will be treated to many epic games as our reward.
Gom, I never should have doubted you. I'm glad I always buy season tickets.
I think so too. As I mentioned above, the playstyle that is used in the current mappool doesn't seem to work nearly as good on those big maps. People will figure out how to play on those maps as the time passes.
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This is such amazing news. It is just too bad they couldn't have started this GSL with the new map pool.
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i've just created one on Aiur Garden
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My suggestion if you're having problems with larger maps is to do fast expand builds and take quick thirds. If right now your main build in a matchup involves a strong timing push intended to kill your opponent, do it sooner or with one less production building to scale it back, and expand after you move out. That's not a perfect way to adapt current 2basing strategies but it'll give you an advantage over everyone who has no followup to their current 2base gameplans.
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I am really glad that community maps are being allowed. Thats a huge step for esports.
Not sure about crossfire but other maps look great.
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On January 09 2011 06:10 kiwilove wrote:
i've just created one on Aiur Garden
Is Aiur Garden a 2v2 map in the sense Shakuras Plateu is or am I doing it wrong?
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wow there are like 195 safe expansions on the second map, games are going to be like 12 hours long. Overreact to OMFG SHITTY SMALL BLIZZARD MAPS much?
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The "SOON" makes me wonder if they're gonna make this change mid GSL or wait until the 5th season.
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On January 09 2011 06:24 diesirae wrote:
wow there are like 195 safe expansions on the second map, games are going to be like 12 hours long. Overreact to OMFG SHITTY SMALL BLIZZARD MAPS much?
No? There are more ways to punish expansions in SC2 than BW.
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On January 09 2011 06:24 diesirae wrote:
wow there are like 195 safe expansions on the second map, games are going to be like 12 hours long. Overreact to OMFG SHITTY SMALL BLIZZARD MAPS much?
You would think this, but generally what happens is that people start taking bases much more quickly rather than maxing out on 2 bases or whatever. Brood War comes up a lot in these discussions, I know, but it's extremely relevant: Brood War maps are "way fucking huge" by SC2 standards and games of BW still only last like 20-25 minutes unless it's TvT. People don't stay on the same number of bases for nearly as long and in addition people have learned to harass and jockey for map control effectively, as well as make timing pushes to kill expansions but not the player, which all make the game shorter since nobody's ever just sitting around doing nothing. I think SC2 will end up looking pretty much like Brood War in these respects. Don't worry, the games won't be way too long(we have a faster TvT anyway) and you will still be able to occasionally cheese games off of players.
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On January 09 2011 06:28 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 06:24 diesirae wrote:
wow there are like 195 safe expansions on the second map, games are going to be like 12 hours long. Overreact to OMFG SHITTY SMALL BLIZZARD MAPS much? No? There are more ways to punish expansions in SC2 than BW.
Not a bad thing. A superfast expansion and a taking a third base should not be a right, but a risk. If you want Brood War, play/watch Brood War.
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This Is awesome news. I hope Blizzard follows their lead.
Did anybody notice how three of the maps kind of have a swastika pattern in the middle?
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That would be a valid argument if it weren't for the fact that almost all of SC2's "epic games" have been Brood War-style epic macro games, going back to Fruit Dealer's run in GSL1 and probably back through beta as well. There's no equivalency between the side of the argument that wants certain maps to always result in 1 or 2 base all-ins and the side of the argument that wants maps that favor 2-3+ base games. The latter is far more numerous.
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Russian Federation1132 Posts
I kinda liked these maps. I have played several PvT games on crossfire with my practice partner, it seemed kinda P favoring, since the long distance lowers the T pressure ablities in early mid-game and narrow passes are tactically benefitical to the P. Although it kinda disables Colossus play since it's very easy to catch them offguard with vikings/corrupters (the first option is much more easier though).
The other three maps seems quite balanced from first view.
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United States7481 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:24 Dogbert wrote:
The "SOON" makes me wonder if they're gonna make this change mid GSL or wait until the 5th season.
if i had to bet i'd say the change would take place for the upcoming code A qualification tournament, but wait for the 2nd season of code S and code A matches as well as probably not taking effect for the up/down matches
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On January 09 2011 06:35 tryclops wrote:
This Is awesome news. I hope Blizzard follows their lead.
Did anybody notice how three of the maps kind of have a swastika pattern in the middle?
Nope, I see swirly patterns. If that is swatsika, then look at this:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/index.php?title=File:Delta_Quadrant.jpg
Now draw a mental line from the middle to each main and from there to their backdoor expansions. Tadaa, you got a swatsika.
It isn't, get over it.
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I think this is great in the long run but I think it might create serious issues in the short run. This is speculative on my part, as I haven't played on these maps or seen anyone play on them, but it's possible that the balance of the game that we have right now will be a bit different when the average game structure is changed to fit the generally larger map pool.
Isn't Terran in a bit of trouble with a map pool like this? Zerg units are by and large fast moving, and can also spawn in significant numbers at expansions simply due to their macro mechanics and Protoss has Warp Gate technology. Terran has.... Medivacs? Also I believe it is generally accepted that a Zerg not harassed properly by a Terran player is advantaged or a Protoss player who is allowed to macro and tech too freely is advantaged against Terran. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or derail into a discussion about balance, but I could see these factors being an issue.
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These maps look amazing, hopefully we'll get to see so many good macro games on them. Bitbybit.prime must be angry
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Ok, maps suck. Seriously. Just played them, first two are wayyyyyy too big, third is really poorly designed but I'm not sure about crossfire.
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On January 09 2011 06:09 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 05:42 Cha1R wrote:
crossfire is actually alot like destination, just shaped a little differently. it's a direct port of Sin Peaks of Baekdu.
omfg thats so awesome. i thought that map looked familiar.
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On January 09 2011 05:28 SCC-Faust wrote:
I uploaded them on USA server incase no one did yet.
Search "GSL".
Thank you very much faust, I was hoping someone had done it already
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On January 09 2011 06:44 Austere wrote:
I think this is great in the long run but I think it might create serious issues in the short run. This is speculative on my part, as I haven't played on these maps or seen anyone play on them, but it's possible that the balance of the game that we have right now will be a bit different when the average game structure is changed to fit the generally larger map pool.
Isn't Terran in a bit of trouble with a map pool like this? Zerg units are by and large fast moving, and can also spawn in significant numbers at expansions simply due to their macro mechanics and Protoss has Warp Gate technology. Terran has.... Medivacs? Also I believe it is generally accepted that a Zerg not harassed properly by a Terran player is advantaged or a Protoss player who is allowed to macro and tech too freely is advantaged against Terran. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or derail into a discussion about balance, but I could see these factors being an issue.
Go watch flash play bw. same situation there, and made worse by the fact zerg has lurkers. In sc2, it should be very possible to use drops, hellion harass to open up the zerg.
Not to mention the fact that a faster 3rd or 4th means terran has more income and can max and remax faster: thus mitigating one of the advantages of zerg.
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Best news since GSL started and BoxeR switched IMO.
Is there any info on who developed the rest of the maps?
- please update the OP, 20 pages is a bit too much to search.
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Hell yeah!
One way to stop the allins and rushes plaguing GSL play atm is to make maps bigger so scouting and distance allows you to react accoridngly ^^
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CROSSFUCKINGFIRE! Awesome stuff. I hope Blizzard follows up with the same maps on ladder - might make sense, since the GSL is half-Blizzard anyway.
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I know this is a super noob question but can someone tell me how to download these maps and what site to get them from, they look great and I really want to try them out.
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Thank god. Thank you GOM. You guys rock. :D
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WOW Aiur garden looks so cool
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You can manner pylon on Biohazard at some positions, but not at others. Needs to be fixed so all positions can be manner pyloned.
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Has anyone uploaded these on EU???
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On January 09 2011 07:37 ParasitJonte wrote:
Has anyone uploaded these on EU???
Yes, all the maps are currently live on EU servers.
Not a lot of people playing them in customs though, so find a friend if you wanna check them out
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Great news that GOM is considering to change the map pool and allow unoffical Maps. However, without the change in the ladder map pool, seems that now you would have to host custom games, which could be varying in different levels of skill to practice, unless you can contact friends/teammates to play with you, which I doubt there would be no problems for most high-level players.
Crossfire is such a good map to play on; CSL has used it this season before it was discontinued.
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Some of these maps are as big as shakura's in both dimensions, which is awesome. You might eventually be seeing stuff like 5 or 6 base (insert race) vs 5 or 6 base (insert race) which will be great. Harass is generally more important on bigger maps because of the more spread out bases. TvT on these maps could take a very, very long time though.
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surprised none are iccup then again prob looking at korean stream. iccup.diamond is happy neways prob by now. but wa no blistering sands ;(
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Crossfire looks a lot like Destination to me, like expansion placement and everything.
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On January 09 2011 08:04 eatmyshorts5 wrote:
Crossfire looks a lot like Destination to me, like expansion placement and everything.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/6_Sin%20Peaks%20of%20Baekdu.jpg)
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 09 2011 06:44 Austere wrote:
I think this is great in the long run but I think it might create serious issues in the short run. This is speculative on my part, as I haven't played on these maps or seen anyone play on them, but it's possible that the balance of the game that we have right now will be a bit different when the average game structure is changed to fit the generally larger map pool.
Isn't Terran in a bit of trouble with a map pool like this? Zerg units are by and large fast moving, and can also spawn in significant numbers at expansions simply due to their macro mechanics and Protoss has Warp Gate technology. Terran has.... Medivacs? Also I believe it is generally accepted that a Zerg not harassed properly by a Terran player is advantaged or a Protoss player who is allowed to macro and tech too freely is advantaged against Terran. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or derail into a discussion about balance, but I could see these factors being an issue.
The new maps will encourage macro games, obviously Terran is lacking in that department compared to Zerg and Protoss, hence why Terran can be safely buffed if games are played on larger maps. The maps will require some rebalancing, but it will (hopefully) be for the better.
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On January 09 2011 08:13 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 06:44 Austere wrote:
I think this is great in the long run but I think it might create serious issues in the short run. This is speculative on my part, as I haven't played on these maps or seen anyone play on them, but it's possible that the balance of the game that we have right now will be a bit different when the average game structure is changed to fit the generally larger map pool.
Isn't Terran in a bit of trouble with a map pool like this? Zerg units are by and large fast moving, and can also spawn in significant numbers at expansions simply due to their macro mechanics and Protoss has Warp Gate technology. Terran has.... Medivacs? Also I believe it is generally accepted that a Zerg not harassed properly by a Terran player is advantaged or a Protoss player who is allowed to macro and tech too freely is advantaged against Terran. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or derail into a discussion about balance, but I could see these factors being an issue. The new maps will encourage macro games, obviously Terran is lacking in that department compared to Zerg and Protoss, hence why Terran can be safely buffed if games are played on larger maps. The maps will require some rebalancing, but it will (hopefully) be for the better.
I highly doubt Blizzard will balance the game around unofficial maps.
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Well if the maps are as "macro-oriented" as everyone says, then get ready to watch Zerg mass mutalisk harrass and dominate.
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I just played Aiur's Garden and I don't really like close positions, is that fixable?
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On January 09 2011 07:03 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 06:44 Austere wrote:
I think this is great in the long run but I think it might create serious issues in the short run. This is speculative on my part, as I haven't played on these maps or seen anyone play on them, but it's possible that the balance of the game that we have right now will be a bit different when the average game structure is changed to fit the generally larger map pool.
Isn't Terran in a bit of trouble with a map pool like this? Zerg units are by and large fast moving, and can also spawn in significant numbers at expansions simply due to their macro mechanics and Protoss has Warp Gate technology. Terran has.... Medivacs? Also I believe it is generally accepted that a Zerg not harassed properly by a Terran player is advantaged or a Protoss player who is allowed to macro and tech too freely is advantaged against Terran. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or derail into a discussion about balance, but I could see these factors being an issue. Go watch flash play bw. same situation there, and made worse by the fact zerg has lurkers. In sc2, it should be very possible to use drops, hellion harass to open up the zerg. Not to mention the fact that a faster 3rd or 4th means terran has more income and can max and remax faster: thus mitigating one of the advantages of zerg.
Yeah i think thats the issue is Terran needs that third and once it has it the gas intensity of a unit doesn't really matter. Most Terrans, even me are used to getting 2 bases really quick, but hesitate to grab the third. I blame the map pool that makes mobility a requirement for thirds.
Note how alot of these maps seem easy to defend with siege tanks. Hope they get into the next patch pool.
Also i think later game terran has to actively/effectively harass throughout the game and can't falter in macro EVER(Which makes terran the race with the highest skill ceiling imho)
A banshee here a group of hellions their, Terran has the best harass and to win you have to take advantage. And as that goes on, you build your Terran ball.
Protoss Techs
Zerg Macros
Terran Harasses and Turtles or is Ubber aggressive with infantry
NOTE: Just noticed the easy Thirds and plentifulness of chokes. You know what that means. . SIEGE TANKS 
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for all flamers who say the new maps are too big, you cant be from the sc1 communty ...
you will find out sooner or later that its not "funny" to see every game an allin rush, long macro games can be way more entertainment and when i see the first 1hour games on GSL i will be so haaaappy
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On January 09 2011 08:13 Kipsate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 06:44 Austere wrote:
I think this is great in the long run but I think it might create serious issues in the short run. This is speculative on my part, as I haven't played on these maps or seen anyone play on them, but it's possible that the balance of the game that we have right now will be a bit different when the average game structure is changed to fit the generally larger map pool.
Isn't Terran in a bit of trouble with a map pool like this? Zerg units are by and large fast moving, and can also spawn in significant numbers at expansions simply due to their macro mechanics and Protoss has Warp Gate technology. Terran has.... Medivacs? Also I believe it is generally accepted that a Zerg not harassed properly by a Terran player is advantaged or a Protoss player who is allowed to macro and tech too freely is advantaged against Terran. I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or derail into a discussion about balance, but I could see these factors being an issue. The new maps will encourage macro games, obviously Terran is lacking in that department compared to Zerg and Protoss, hence why Terran can be safely buffed if games are played on larger maps. The maps will require some rebalancing, but it will (hopefully) be for the better.
Yeah im hoping these new maps reveal imbalances in the macro game and they can be fixed. For example if Steppes of War was in BW, Protoss would win with a 2 gate every game.
Although Blizzard wants a variety of games, rush games should not be part of it. Nobody wants, nor likes rush games. And balancing around such maps is stupidity.
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FINALLY about god damn time they change some of the horrendous maps, this is very exciting.
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Can you drop like at every expansion at Biohazard or does it look like that only?
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United States7166 Posts
these maps look to be a huge improvement over what we have currently. and the important thing here is that the new map process has begun. it will eventually trickle down to the ladder pool and a bunch of other tournaments as well.
words cannot express how happy I am that this is finally happening
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On January 09 2011 08:21 CoR wrote:
for all flamers who say the new maps are too big, you cant be from the sc1 communty ...
you will find out sooner or later that its not "funny" to see every game an allin rush, long macro games can be way more entertainment and when i see the first 1hour games on GSL i will be so haaaappy
Hey wassup. I feel like flaming you but I'll hold back.
There's a limit to how big maps can be. Even in SC1, the larger maps were more zerg favoured because they could drone harder. Same concept applies in SC2. These maps are too big, especially because of how SC2 was balanced around smaller maps. I'm all for having some more regular sized maps such as 128x128 but these ones are overcompensating.
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United States7166 Posts
On January 09 2011 08:26 ngri wrote:
Can you drop like at every expansion at Biohazard or does it look like that only?
you can, but the area to drop is all small for all the spots and all of it can be attacked by roaches (assuming they have vision of cliff)
i'm much more concerned about how ridiculous tank pushes will be to adjacent bases, as they can fit through those tiny passageways completely circumventing the wide open center, the only good area to fight a siege tanked position. at least the distance is fairly long though and air looks fairly strong on that map
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On January 09 2011 08:28 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:26 ngri wrote:
Can you drop like at every expansion at Biohazard or does it look like that only? you can, but the area to drop is all small for all the spots and all of it can be attacked by roaches (assuming they have vision of cliff) i'm much more concerned about how ridiculous tank pushes will be to adjacent bases, as they can fit through those tiny passageways completely circumventing the wide open center, the only good area to fight a siege tanked position. at least the distance is fairly long though and air looks fairly strong on that map
Tanks are strong on Biohazard because of that choke, yeah. Getting a surround on a turtling Terran is very difficult, especially since they can wall off wherever they want.
Tanks can also siege most of the natural from the lowground on Tal'Darim Altar- pretty big issue.
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If Blizzard doesn't add these, or future GSL maps to the ladder than the ladder just becomes irrelevant. It's up to them.
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The maps, gameplay-wise, all look pretty high quality. I'm not a fan of rotational symmetry, but it's not as big of a deal on these maps as it is on Delta Quadrant.
Worth noting that Biohazard is ugly as hell. I hope this is an unfinished version, the tileset is so nice (Shakuras Plateau for example) but they obviously put 0 effort into making the map look good. Gameplay first, as always, but I couldn't stand to watch or play games on this one.
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Yes! Outstanding news! This will be a huge boon to the tournament and the game as a whole if its true.
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Oh, and FINALLY the real balancing of the game can start! That's actually one of the best things in my mind.
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I'm really looking forward to the... "balance discussions" that will follow when player favourites start dropping thanks to changed metagame caused by the new maps
Brace yourselves.
But really, the biggest challenge will be making maps fair to each race. GSL has to prove they can do that before I can personally accept taking these new maps into the map pool.
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Unreal, wish Blizz would also purge some of the maps in the current pool.
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On January 09 2011 08:51 Greentellon wrote:I'm really looking forward to the... "balance discussions" that will follow when player favourites start dropping thanks to changed metagame caused by the new maps Brace yourselves. But really, the biggest challenge will be making maps fair to each race. GSL has to prove they can do that before I can personally accept taking these new maps into the map pool.
Balance discussion for sure will follow... check out this thread for some info on the maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182833
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as long as maps keep changing, this will be awesome. great job GSL
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 09 2011 08:21 CoR wrote:
for all flamers who say the new maps are too big, you cant be from the sc1 communty ...
you will find out sooner or later that its not "funny" to see every game an allin rush, long macro games can be way more entertainment and when i see the first 1hour games on GSL i will be so haaaappy
The maps are really big. I don't think they're going to make for very entertaining games to be honest with you. But time will tell I guess.
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I am just glad there will be 4 new maps. Even if 2 of them end up sucking real bad, it would be a fresh change and they can just replace the bad ones later anyways and mappers can learn from it. Not only does the game need to evolve so does the maps and the community can actually assist with that. Props to gomtv.
On a side note, having a team and practicing with the team or friends is going to be even more important for these players as they likely won`t be on ladder map pool.
Will also be interesting to see which top players can learn and pick up strats on a new map fast.
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crossfire, the blizzard one of the 4 in the OP, has still got that god damn back door rocks gimmick ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5ETz2.png)
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United States7166 Posts
i disagree plexa..i find larger maps usually provide more entertaining games as the more spread out a player becomes, the more effective smaller forces of units and tactics become vs them. harassment is more effective vs players who are spread out and multiple attacks/battles going on usually makes games more entertaining. also wide open centers allow for more freedom of control, unit positioning, and flanks
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On January 09 2011 08:55 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:21 CoR wrote:
for all flamers who say the new maps are too big, you cant be from the sc1 communty ...
you will find out sooner or later that its not "funny" to see every game an allin rush, long macro games can be way more entertainment and when i see the first 1hour games on GSL i will be so haaaappy The maps are really big. I don't think they're going to make for very entertaining games to be honest with you. But time will tell I guess.
Agreed, +1 from the iCCup map team. Good large maps are extremely entertaining, but these are lacking necessary key features.
But this is an amazing initiative by GOM, and is a step in the right direction.
Keep in mind these mappers are very talented, they just haven't had enough experience with map size affecting game play. Additionally, nobody really knows how new macro mechanics, creep, and warp gates affect late game balance.
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United States7166 Posts
also i really like their use of watch towers and also tall grass. especially those wide ramp hills on tal'darim altar, the same mechanic is being used a lot in bw maps now and I liked it there too. (the ones with a ramp up and ramp down right next to each other, and very little high ground in between
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This news makes me so happy. Even if these maps are awful this is still a move in the right direction. I really don't care if it effects balance and IMO blizzard has focused to much on balance/MU %'s.
I would rather have a game that is fun to play/watch but is imbalanced than a game that is boring to play/watch but has perfect balance.
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On January 09 2011 08:55 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:21 CoR wrote:
for all flamers who say the new maps are too big, you cant be from the sc1 communty ...
you will find out sooner or later that its not "funny" to see every game an allin rush, long macro games can be way more entertainment and when i see the first 1hour games on GSL i will be so haaaappy The maps are really big. I don't think they're going to make for very entertaining games to be honest with you. But time will tell I guess.
The maps are extremely large. I think people are mistaking longer games with bigger armies for more exciting games. I'm in favor of changing the map pool to maps that are more similar to Shakuras, but these maps seem like an extreme change from what players are used to. We may be throwing away balance for the sake of eliminating short games from the GSL.
Professional players will have to learn the game all over again and that's really the only way to find out.
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Awesome, can't wait to see Pro games on those maps, who knows, we may see some crazy new strategies on these maps.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 09 2011 09:01 Zelniq wrote:
i disagree plexa..i find larger maps usually provide more entertaining games as the more spread out a player becomes, the more effective smaller forces of units and tactics become vs them. harassment is more effective vs players who are spread out and multiple attacks/battles going on usually makes games more entertaining. also wide open centers allow for more freedom of control, unit positioning, and flanks
I think Monitor summed up it perfectly:
On January 09 2011 09:02 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:55 Plexa wrote:On January 09 2011 08:21 CoR wrote:
for all flamers who say the new maps are too big, you cant be from the sc1 communty ...
you will find out sooner or later that its not "funny" to see every game an allin rush, long macro games can be way more entertainment and when i see the first 1hour games on GSL i will be so haaaappy The maps are really big. I don't think they're going to make for very entertaining games to be honest with you. But time will tell I guess. Agreed, +1 from the iCCup map team. Good large maps are extremely entertaining, but these are lacking necessary key features. But this is an amazing initiative by GOM, and is a step in the right direction. Keep in mind these mappers are very talented, they just haven't had enough experience with map size affecting game play. Additionally, nobody really knows how new macro mechanics, creep, and warp gates affect late game balance.
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On January 09 2011 09:04 grandmoose wrote:
This news makes me so happy. Even if these maps are awful this is still a move in the right direction. I really don't care if it effects balance and IMO blizzard has focused to much on balance/MU %'s.
I would rather have a game that is fun to play/watch but is imbalanced than a game that is boring to play/watch but has perfect balance.
Kind of funny how BWs imbalances made it balanced.
Medic Marine Imba
Tanks Imba
Spider Mines Imba
Storm Imba
Reaver Imba
Defiler Imba
EMP Imba
Alot of imba made the game balenced
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YES!!!
I freaking hate those maps mentioned in the OP for removal. I feel that jungle basin sucks as well
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Those new maps definitely look interesting, however they lack xel'naga watch towers (at least it looks like that from the map preview, not sure though).
On the visual side, sigh, I wonder why no one makes a fitting lava, desert or sand map (especially when they want to remove blistering sands aswell). From the looks of it GSL will have dozens of jungle maps, then those bluish ones and a few urban ones. Makes me hope, that they have much more maps that they will test out.
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United States7166 Posts
you cant tell from the map preview but there are plenty of watch towers. 4 towers in the center of aiur garden and tal darim temple. one seeing the whole center area on biohazard and 2 on crossfire
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Regardless of how good or bad the maps are, they're going to be better than
Steppes of War, Delta Quadrant, Blistering Sands and unknown one.
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Firstly, iirc Blizzard said they support the fact that tournament organizers are stepping up and making their own custom map pool.
Secondly, these maps are definitely not too big.
This is a real time strategy game so I like it when the maps gives me the tools to execute bigger scale strategies. More importantly, some units and upgrades are going to be extremely valuable, adding more depth and giving the player choices. I'm thinking about sensor towers / detection units as well as air units speed upgrades. Finally, army positionning and multitasking are going to have a bigger impact.
Really, it's all about strategy.
edit: I'm not 100% positive about these specific maps though. Not familiar with map features etc. As people said they may indeed lack some key stuff needed to provide entertainement.
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On January 09 2011 09:34 Zelniq wrote:
you cant tell from the map preview but there are plenty of watch towers. 4 towers in the center of aiur garden and tal darim temple. one seeing the whole center area on biohazard and 2 on crossfire
I don't think there are any on Biohazard (I obs'd a game), are you sure?
On the other maps, the XNT's are pretty standard but good. On Aiur Garden, are those LoS blockers on the edge of a path? That could be a cool way to hide units...
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So, I played a bunch of games on these maps, in random vs random matchups to get a variety. As every race, I went CC/Nexus/hatch first and felt safe doing it and my opponent usually went rax into CC or gate into CC or hatch first. The games were tons of fun to play, but it really did take a while before the game would be fun to watch. There is always downtime at the beggining of matches, this will simply increase that downtime, but make for a more fun map experience.
Also, PvP and ZvZ aren't as much of a rushfest on these maps. Huzzah!
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On January 09 2011 09:37 AlBundy wrote:
Firstly, iirc Blizzard said they support the fact that tournament organizers are stepping up and making their own custom map pool.
Secondly, these maps are definitely not too big.
This is a real time strategy game so I like it when the maps gives me the tools to execute bigger scale strategies. More importantly, some units and upgrades are going to be extremely valuable, adding more depth and giving the player choices. I'm thinking about sensor towers / detection units as well as air units speed upgrades. Finally, army positionning and multitasking are going to have a bigger impact.
Really, it's all about strategy.
edit: I'm not 100% positive about these specific maps though. Not familiar with map features etc.
Hey, why don't you have a 256x256 map where a Zerg can make a million drones without ever being punished for it. That's a great idea, eh? It promotes so much strategy!
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Taldarim Altar looks beautiful, especially the center. But I think it might favor Zerg a lot though since there are a lot of expansions on the map.
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On January 09 2011 09:40 neobowman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 09:37 AlBundy wrote:
Firstly, iirc Blizzard said they support the fact that tournament organizers are stepping up and making their own custom map pool.
Secondly, these maps are definitely not too big.
This is a real time strategy game so I like it when the maps gives me the tools to execute bigger scale strategies. More importantly, some units and upgrades are going to be extremely valuable, adding more depth and giving the player choices. I'm thinking about sensor towers / detection units as well as air units speed upgrades. Finally, army positionning and multitasking are going to have a bigger impact.
Really, it's all about strategy.
edit: I'm not 100% positive about these specific maps though. Not familiar with map features etc. Hey, why don't you have a 256x256 map where a Zerg can make a million drones without ever being punished for it. That's a great idea, eh? It promotes so much strategy!
As you imply there are limits, but I was not thinking of such extremes. I agree with the fact that some maps CAN be too big. But given the state of the game and the seemingly fast paced gameplayof Sc2, I'm quite confident. Hopefully time will tell.
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Hell yea thats fucking awesome. I am really glad they are taking the reigns to use new maps. The blizzard ones are so shitty.
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Auir Garden looks beautiful i think it will make for good Macro games. i dont really like crossfire u spawn to far apart for a 2 player map and i dont like how it's so vertical
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That's strange, I can hear Handel's Messiah playing in the background. Here's hoping some of these end up on the ladder if they're good.
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Big news. Crossfire is great, and I am looking forward to seeing games on it (I don't understand the hate is receiving in this thread -- all seemingly directed at the backdoor rocks). Of the custom maps, Amoroso looks really good and may be a keeper. I do not think the other two look particularly good, but if they end up playing bad, new maps will take their place, so thumbs up. Maps really are holding back sc2 right now, and this will hopefully set a positive precedent for other tournaments.
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On January 09 2011 09:02 monitor wrote:
nobody really knows how new macro mechanics, creep, and warp gates affect late game balance.
I'm exited for the change but the issues worrying me are as monitor says. In BW zerg couldn't stockpile 100 lava when maxed for an instant re-max after they lost their army. Protoss couldnt warp in units anywhere on the map for instant reinforcements/defense. Terran's couldnt stockpile OC's for rediculous late game income and then sacrifice their SCV's for an extra sized max army.
Time will tell...
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Aw yea, Blizz should put these on the ladder too.
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I just got done playing games with my brother on Tal darim and Aiur garden and they are pretty interesting maps. I definitely like the size of them, it feels much more like BW, however the expansion behind base in Aiur garden makes it a little strange.
My comments below apply to the Aiur Garden that is currently on NA server, which is actually DIFFERENT than the one on the front page of this thread (it has a third right outside the main while the one on this thread doesn't)
Tal darim played a pretty good game, but with Aiur garden I felt there was very little i could do ZvT because Terran can expand incredibly fast in that map, it was litteraly we both start off with 2 bases then both expand to third , then i can double expand to fourth and fifth while he gets his fourth, but still zerg 5 base is not really enough to combat terran 4 base, and I tried to harass and prevent or slow down his bases but wasn't really capable of doing it in this map due to how close expansions are to each other (on NA server) Terran turtle can easily get mass expos (feels similar to Delta Quadrant), however it will be interesting to see what pros do, maybe there will be some gimmicks that can be pulled off to prevent terran from mass expanding.
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It is about time for new maps. These look fun too.
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Wow. These actually look like good maps. That last one in particular looks like, twice as big as what I expected when I saw the top portion of the picture.
Aiur Garden looks.. beautiful.
Would have like to see ICCup get in on the action, though ]:
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Just watched a great TvZ on Taldarim Altar between IMLosira and an unknown, the map size did not detract from the action at all.
oh, and the outcome was unexpected
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On January 09 2011 09:43 AlBundy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 09:40 neobowman wrote:On January 09 2011 09:37 AlBundy wrote:
Firstly, iirc Blizzard said they support the fact that tournament organizers are stepping up and making their own custom map pool.
Secondly, these maps are definitely not too big.
This is a real time strategy game so I like it when the maps gives me the tools to execute bigger scale strategies. More importantly, some units and upgrades are going to be extremely valuable, adding more depth and giving the player choices. I'm thinking about sensor towers / detection units as well as air units speed upgrades. Finally, army positionning and multitasking are going to have a bigger impact.
Really, it's all about strategy.
edit: I'm not 100% positive about these specific maps though. Not familiar with map features etc. Hey, why don't you have a 256x256 map where a Zerg can make a million drones without ever being punished for it. That's a great idea, eh? It promotes so much strategy! As you imply there are limits, but I was not thinking of such extremes. I agree with the fact that some maps CAN be too big. But given the state of the game and the seemingly fast paced gameplayof Sc2, I'm quite confident. Hopefully time will tell.
If you've ever played a large custom map in SC2 at a relatively high level, it'd be relatively obvious. Even the Grand Line conversion I made that was 140x140 was farrrrr too big. Zerg had a ridiculous advantage on the map because of the size, and that was even before the 1.1 patch nerfed Terran. Anything at that size level or above is too big, unless they have some radical concept that subverts it. Unfortunately, none of the maps shown here do.
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OHHH MY GAWWDDDD YESSSSS
Finally.
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On January 09 2011 09:57 rift wrote:Just watched a great TvZ on Taldarim Altar between IMLosira and an unknown, the map size did not detract from the action at all. oh, and the outcome was unexpected
link?
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United States7166 Posts
i think we should wait for more testing before jumping to too many conclusions
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On January 09 2011 10:10 Zelniq wrote:
i think we should wait for more testing before jumping to too many conclusions
Yeah. Hopefully these are great maps though.
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these maps aren't perfectly balanced, especially biohazard. but a step up from steppes, and delta. Good to see somebody's making new maps, unlike blizz
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If jungle basin is map #4 for removal, I will be one happy starcraft player.
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SHHHHHHHHHHHO HAPPPYYYYYYYY
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These maps are much much smaller than I would have thought.. at least if the ones on NA are the correct versions.
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Awesome news.
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Wow.. This is really exciting. There really aren't enough maps in rotation and hopefully the ladder map pool follows suit and takes on a few new comers.
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On January 09 2011 10:10 Zelniq wrote:
i think we should wait for more testing before jumping to too many conclusions
That's true; I hope the game is balanced on bigger maps, because I don't trust Blizzard to do anything about it right now- they aren't doing anything.
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Any1 wants to play some games on the maps? (EU server: kuhfighter.424)
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Damn nice map choices, good to see this change! Community maps for the win!
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Awesome, it's about time. I hope the unknown map is Jungle Basin. I hope Blizzard takes note and changes the ladder maps too.
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I now have absolutely everything I want. I love the starcraft community so much.
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Wait, im confused, so are they going to add these into the ladder?
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does anyone have any replays or vods on these maps? I wanna see how big they actually are.
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Wow these maps are so big
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maps look sick i can't wait to try em out
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On January 09 2011 10:53 Vorlik wrote:
does anyone have any replays or vods on these maps? I wanna see how big they actually are.
Gisado - and many people who are currently playing them.
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Aiur Garden is actually pretty small considering how fast you can reach your next door position.
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Really nice to see custom maps finally being implemented in a major tournament such as GSL. Not to mention I'm a huge fan of these artsy-style maps (nothing wrong with Blizzards but they tend to be aesthetically plain).
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Does anybody know what the four-player space platform map is that they were playing on Gisado's VOD's ?? Specifically, the game between TheStC and Journey
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The maps look great. I cant wait to see them used in the GSL.
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Great news, wouldn't mind some different ladder maps too D:
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This is great news!!!!!! Thank you GOM for listening to the players and community and really showing that you care! As long as we avoid this giant misstep from WC3, SC2 will be able to have a much longer and better competitive scene. Very excited!
And remember that it really does not matter if this first batch of 4 maps sucks or not. It is showing the fact that we will be getting custom maps and with time can become as good as BW maps.
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That last map is peaks of badeku or however you say it. Awesome!
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
On January 09 2011 11:52 yeti wrote:I am really excited about crossfire, it reminds me a lot of BW's Sin_Peaks_of_Baekdu.
thats because it is a direct port of the map.
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SEE???
BLIZZARD LISTENS
never forget! :D
these maps look friggin awesome too!
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Welcome back Muta ling vs muta ling ZvZ is all i can say. other than that, Loving how big the map is.
And i dont get are you talking about poster above me, blizzard hasnt done anything. That crossfire map is a rip off from destination from broodwar and has been around, but never been in map pool.
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This change is brilliant, hopefully in the future more custom maps will be implemented.
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i hope they take out jungle for the 4th one
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I am very happy to see that they are finally considering new maps for the map pool, but it makes me very sad that the first three maps have rotational symmetry, which is not balanced. Sorry if someone has mentioned this earlier, just don't want to see more Delta Quadrants.
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From the looks of it, it seems a lot of these new maps have very narrow corridors making protoss force fields seem very strong.
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Huzzah! This is fantastic news!
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I played some customs just to see the maps ingame, and they feel reeeeeeally sweet to play on.
I hope TSL and ladder will implement these maps too.
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IMO the best thing for blizzard to do woukd be to make the GSL map pool, the map pool for the master and grandmaster leagues in the ladder. Diamond and below can still use smaller maps but at the pro level the map pool must be the same as what GSL is using.
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On January 09 2011 12:41 WickedBit wrote:
IMO the best thing for blizzard to do woukd be to make the GSL map pool, the map pool for the master and grandmaster leagues in the ladder. Diamond and below can still use smaller maps but at the pro level the map pool must be the same as what GSL is using.
Because we diamond level players deserve a worse map pool? I don't know what you're getting at--Master and Grandmaster leagues will be pretty exclusive, from what I understand, so I think that any map pool changes should apply to all leagues; many players in Diamond frequent TL (Most of TL will probably be mid-high diamond even after Masters League) and we don't like having our game quality lessened by mad maps.
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crossfire
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On January 09 2011 12:41 WickedBit wrote:
IMO the best thing for blizzard to do woukd be to make the GSL map pool, the map pool for the master and grandmaster leagues in the ladder. Diamond and below can still use smaller maps but at the pro level the map pool must be the same as what GSL is using.
That just isn't fair. If there is a new map pool, everyone should get it. It would keep the game fresh for everyone.
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the maps look.. OK, but definitely a HUGE step in the right direction. Not really feelin a few of those maps but at least they are thinking about it. I like that they are removing the maps they know are bad, the ones that always get vetoed. I'd love to see jungle basin removed as well.
Metalopolis, LT, Scrap Station, Shakuras, Xel Naga and 4 new maps should be a great map pool.
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Its really nice to see that GOM is listening and that changes are coming
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Delta is gone, happiest day of my life. =)
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Huge news and I'm really excited for everymap except for the Crossfire map. The chokes are annorexic on that map and I don't think it's conducive to 200/200 situations
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Aiur Garden looks sick but I'm still extremely disappointed absolutely no attention has been given to 3-players maps, which have traditionally given off some of the best and most creative games of all time in BW.
Overall, this is extremely good news that GOM has finally decided to get rid of those terible maps.
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On January 09 2011 13:42 setzer wrote:
Aiur Garden looks sick but I'm still extremely disappointed absolutely no attention has been given to 3-players maps, which have traditionally given off some of the best and most creative games of all time in BW.
Overall, this is extremely good news that GOM has finally decided to get rid of those terible maps.
Agreed about the lack of 3 player maps. They really gave some nice dynamic to the game that is unique from 4 player maps. As Flash and Jaedong showed in game 2 of WCG 2010, some of the most intense battles occur fighting over that one empty main.
I really hope they remake Tau Cross, one of my favorite 3 player maps.
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On January 09 2011 13:51 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 13:42 setzer wrote:
Aiur Garden looks sick but I'm still extremely disappointed absolutely no attention has been given to 3-players maps, which have traditionally given off some of the best and most creative games of all time in BW.
Overall, this is extremely good news that GOM has finally decided to get rid of those terible maps. Agreed about the lack of 3 player maps. They really gave some nice dynamic to the game that is unique from 4 player maps. As Flash and Jaedong showed in game 2 of WCG 2010, some of the most intense battles occur fighting over that one empty main. I really hope they remake Tau Cross, one of my favorite 3 player maps.
Read: ICCUP Trcc
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Download link please? I can't find it.
Oops. I guess I should be searching these on Battle.net soon. Uploaded yet?
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터미누스 is the other map Gisado is testing, can any Korean speaker translate that? Google is giving me "Justinian Terminal".
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On January 09 2011 13:42 setzer wrote:
Aiur Garden looks sick but I'm still extremely disappointed absolutely no attention has been given to 3-players maps, which have traditionally given off some of the best and most creative games of all time in BW.
Overall, this is extremely good news that GOM has finally decided to get rid of those terible maps.
LONGINUS BABY!
RUSH HOUR BABY!
TAU CROSS BABY!
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I hope the 4th unannounced map is jungle basin. This is overdue and I'm very happy that this is happening. Even if the new maps aren't that good (not saying that they are or not, we don't know yet), it opens the door for more innovation and customization with the map pool and that's the most important thing.
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Thats sick! Can't wait to see that!
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Hell yes. The revolution has begun!
Props to blizzard for making a good game and doing decent balance patches at a good pace but they never have made and never will be able to make maps that are optimal for top level play. Even their big maps has fundamental flaws in them that makes them worse than any recent pro map in sc1.
And it's not at all about blizzard being bad or unreasonable it's just that they do not have people that put enough time or effort into understanding the game at the highest levels to make those maps. It's not an easy task. You literally need to live the game if you are to make top notch maps. Korean pro mapmakers do so imo.
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OMG those maps look soooooooo sick!! Hopefully the fourth one is crap station.
Edit: nvm I hope it is jungle basin
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On January 09 2011 14:14 rift wrote:
터미누스 is the other map Gisado is testing, can any Korean speaker translate that? Google is giving me "Justinian Terminal".
터미누스 is Terminus. It's official Blizzard map, but Gisado is using Terminus RE.
Terminus RE has some modification from original one. I sent a mapfile to smileyyy, so he is going to upload this one too.
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Any chance these are going to be uploaded to the NA server?
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I really like the changes seems more fair to the players. I wish Blizzard changed their map pool every month or something so it can be different etc.
I hope there is also more dedication to SC2 from their staff to get important patches out on time.
@MrPrezbo I think so, but I don't think that Blizzard is going to use them or bring out newer maps until later.
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On January 09 2011 15:16 MrPrezbo wrote:
Any chance these are going to be uploaded to the NA server?
They are, search "GSL" for the fifth time.
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And it's not at all about blizzard being bad or unreasonable it's just that they do not have people that put enough time or effort into understanding the game at the highest levels to make those maps. It's not an easy task. You literally need to live the game if you are to make top notch maps. Korean pro mapmakers do so imo.
Well actually, David Kim is quite high level, ladder wise at least. But I know what you meant and I agree, they probably don't, won't, and/or can't hire a group of people just to make maps for them. And David Kim is a balancer not a map maker so heh. Anyways, it's a nice thing to have, right? Another way to bond with the community. Community makes maps, Blizz/Gom uses them, mapmakers feel proud and happy, Blizz/Gom feels grateful and proud of their community.
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Here is a recent Gisado game on "Terminus":
http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404045
You can tell how much richer these maps have the potential to make the game.
That is one of the more back and forth games I've seen.
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Wow Finally what took them so LONG
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Huge step in the right direction. This at least gets things started, and is going to make the game much more interesting to watch.
Went ahead and bought a GSL 4 ticket out of appreciation.
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thanks RinconH!
I'll check that out :D
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We all have to tune in to show our support for the map change, they did this to improve game quality, let's reward them with massive viewership numbers.
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Aiur Garden seems amazing.
Thank god steppes/delta/blistering sands are removed. I really hope scrap is removed, scrap is ridiculous for ZvP
I hope these maps are added in along with patch 1.2
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well i hope most of the maps aren't extremely big, as much as i love a macro games myself there should be the threat of rushes here and there, (there shouldn't always be rushes, but zergys shouldn't just be able to chill and drone hard core until 5 minutes in )
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Finally, new maps.
I've been waiting for this news!
I want to try them.
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Why did blizzard remove shakuras from the ladder map pool?
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On January 09 2011 16:16 GhostLink wrote:
Why did blizzard remove shakuras from the ladder map pool?
because of a "invincible" pylon bug
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ah yes TerminusRe is on EU Faust should upload it to NA shortly too
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Great to see GOM taking the initiative to balance the map pool more. Auir Garden looks like a far better version of Delta imo.
On January 09 2011 15:44 lolbolt wrote:
Wow Finally what took them so LONG
They used ladder maps during the 3 open seasons because everyone played on them, so that wouldn't mean that people would have to dig up a bunch of practice partners to play hundreds of games for a tournament they might not even qualify for. Even worse if you have to fly from another country to compete. Now that it's private everyone that's playing will be on teams to practice these maps with, so it's a better situation for the players, and the spectators will get better games as a result.
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i doubt they will use iccup maps, using iccup maps is endorsing iccup server which doesn't have a license to host brood war or warcraft 3 dota. they are a business they are very careful not to promote illegal servers. you all do know blizzard is all about their IP rights these days. supporting an iccup map is counter productive to their legal case against brood war IP rights in Korea. its counter productive to their legal case and sends the wrong message.
thats why its obviouse to me they ignore the iccup thread on battle.net and this.
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I have seen the maps being used on Gisado before and I must say they are better then most of the maps currently being used. About time for this change to happen.
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those maps look so well made
i hope these make it to the blizzard ladders =D
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Love the fact that they are adding new maps! Crossfire looks like a complete macro headache to me, too many cliffs. May give zerg vs terran some problems...
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I'm loving the prospects..... ^^
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Others have already commented on the benefits this will bring to the game, but is it just me, or is Biohazard particularly ugly? I guess if it's a choice between Blizzard's beautiful but game-limiting maps and good but ugly maps, there's really no question, but I'd hope we can get both.
Tal'darim Altar looks very pretty though, very clever choice using those luminous hexagons, they catch the eye, really a new page in the eternal central designs that were on all those Brood War maps.
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Hello, I am a map maker myself (and now a caster) and I'm looking for somewhere to submit my maps, which would give me more reason to keep making more.
Lemme know via pm or here I suppose.
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On January 09 2011 16:28 Huntsman wrote:Great to see GOM taking the initiative to balance the map pool more. Auir Garden looks like a far better version of Delta imo. They used ladder maps during the 3 open seasons because everyone played on them, so that wouldn't mean that people would have to dig up a bunch of practice partners to play hundreds of games for a tournament they might not even qualify for. Even worse if you have to fly from another country to compete. Now that it's private everyone that's playing will be on teams to practice these maps with, so it's a better situation for the players, and the spectators will get better games as a result.
More like Terminus Re looks like a slightly modified Delta Q. I'm betting Terminus or crossfire is going to be the two most hated maps out of these, it's good to see them make a step in the right direction though.
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On January 09 2011 17:25 drlame wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 16:28 Huntsman wrote:Great to see GOM taking the initiative to balance the map pool more. Auir Garden looks like a far better version of Delta imo. On January 09 2011 15:44 lolbolt wrote:
Wow Finally what took them so LONG They used ladder maps during the 3 open seasons because everyone played on them, so that wouldn't mean that people would have to dig up a bunch of practice partners to play hundreds of games for a tournament they might not even qualify for. Even worse if you have to fly from another country to compete. Now that it's private everyone that's playing will be on teams to practice these maps with, so it's a better situation for the players, and the spectators will get better games as a result. More like Terminus Re looks like a slightly modified Delta Q. I'm betting Terminus or crossfire is going to be the two most hated maps out of these, it's good to see them make a step in the right direction though.
The reason Delta Quadrant is so hated is because of the cliffs at the naturals and the short rush distances between naturals (the ones in front without the rocks). Both of these elements don't seem to exist in the Terminus Re map.
And Terminus Re does slightly resemble Terminus. The major differences is the layout change in the middle of the map and the removal of the island expansions in the corner (in favour of a new natural nearer to the main). And the gold expansions for fourths.
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I wish those three maps were removed from ladder as well.
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Watching the gisado casted game on Terminus, its pretty big and the distance from nat to nat is probably the same as Shakuras plateau.
Don't worry, its not DQ 2.0
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I just played Aiur Garden and Tal'Darim Altar on the na server.
I really wish there were no destructible rocks. They're annoying as hell at every expansion besides the naturals.
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Thank god!! I've been REALLY hoping that someone other than blizzard would take up mapmaking duties. We've needed fresh maps for a while now. Blizzard better roll whatever maps they choose onto ladder as well.
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Is TerminusRe on NA? I think SCC-Faust went to bed. Anybody who wants to check/publish it ?
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On January 09 2011 17:45 LazyScout wrote:
I just played Aiur Garden and Tal'Darim Altar on the na server.
I really wish there were no destructible rocks. They're annoying as hell at every expansion besides the naturals.
I agree, WAY to many destructible rocks. But remove those and they are great.
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This is awesome news, can't wait!!!
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i think GSL started to step it up after the popularity decrease
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Overall... Going to be macrotime all the time.
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Nice to see some new maps that will keep the creation of new strategies coming.
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Decided to test the rush distance from main choke to main choke using a marine (using in game time; real time is ~[.7 * [in game time on faster]])
Steppes of War -- 34 seconds (~24 actual seconds)
Crossfire -- 48 seconds (~34 actual seconds)
Aiur Garden (Close Ground) -- 43 seconds (~30 actual seconds)
Aiur Garden (Cross Positions) -- 63 seconds (~44 actual seconds)
Tal'Darim Altar (Close Ground) -- 55 seconds (~38 actual seconds)
Tal'Darim Altar (Cross Positions) -- 75 seconds (~52 actual seconds)
Biohazard (Close Ground) -- 38 seconds (~27 actual seconds)
Biohazard (Cross Positions) -- 52 seconds (~36 actual seconds)
Terminus RE (Close Ground) -- 59 seconds (~41 actual seconds)
Terminus RE (Cross Positions) -- 62 seconds (~43 actual seconds)
And just for kicks...
Metalopolis (Close by Ground) -- 33 seconds (~23 actual seconds)
Metalopolis (Close By Air) -- 45 seconds (~32 actual seconds)
Metalopolis (Cross Positions) -- 55 seconds (~38 actual seconds)
PLEASE NOTE: that this is MAIN CHOKE POINT to MAIN CHOKE POINT.. nat to nat rush distances can be a lot different, especially in the case of Aiur Garden which has a back natural only. Also, "actual" seconds might be off by a few seconds, give or take. In the case of Biohazard, it's also worth noting that the close ground rush distance requires you to filter through the incredibly tiny entrance through the tall grass of the 3rd base.
Edit -- changed real time seconds to in game "seconds" since it's a bit more reliable than simple counting
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China6327 Posts
Absolutely amazing news, not only a game changer in GSL history, also might push blizzard to switch better maps into the ladder map pool and accept more community maps into the ladder and other tournaments.
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awesome news, getting better maps in will be huge imo.
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isnt crossfire just a remake of sin peaks of beakdu? other mightve said this before but reading through 26 pages just to say this is... discouraging
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On January 09 2011 19:24 [wh]_ForAlways wrote:
Decided to test the rush distance from main choke to main choke using a marine (rush distances in real time seconds; not in game)
Steppes of War -- 26 seconds
Crossfire -- 37 seconds
Aiur Garden (Close Ground) -- 31 seconds
Aiur Garden (Cross Positions) -- 44 seconds
Tal'Darim Altar (Close Ground) -- 44 seconds
Tal'Darim Altar (Cross Positions) -- 52 seconds
Biohazard (Close Ground) -- 30 seconds
Biohazard (Cross Positions) -- 40 seconds
Terminus RE -- (Can't do rush distances yet because the map has yet to be uploaded to the NA servers)
And just for kicks...
Metalopolis (Close by Ground) -- 25 seconds
Metalopolis (Close By Air) -- 34 seconds
Metalopolis (Cross Positions) -- 40 seconds
PLEASE NOTE: that this is main to main.. nat to nat rush distances can be a lot different, especially in the case of Aiur Garden which has a back natural only. Also note that these are rough approximations because I do not have a stopwatch, but you get the idea.
Excellent Thanks for this, Sir!!
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I love all of the maps except Biohazard, can't wait to see these getting played!! :D:D
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Blizzard's reaction to this is going to be crucial to SC2's success. The largest possible base of players must be connected to the pros in order to leverage SC2 as one of the biggest e-sports. And this is simply not going to happen over chat based matchmaking. The ladder is too strong of a matchmaking tool for the greater population. Ladder-integration of the Pro maps is unavoidable but difficult to handle.
Really can't wait to see their response.
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The first map, Aiur Garden, looks very similar to Delta Quadrant, except for the removal of the cliffs near the backdoor expansion. I'm curious to see if it is a significant improvement over the official map .
Anyways, this change is very much welcomed an i hope that Blizzard will also consider adding these (and other) custom maps to their mappool. Not only will it be an improvement in the long run, but it will also spice things up and keep the game fresh ^^.
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Ooh yeah! Hope european tournaments start considering map changes too >_>
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I think unknown one gonna be jungle basin.
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This is a very good news !
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whell from playing these maps, most of them are just freewin for zergs...
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Awesome news. ^^ I'd bet that its jungle basin too, that map is often removed from the current GSL season so that would def. make sense.
I tried crossfire tonight, lots of interesting 3rd+ expansion options. Going to play a few more on those maps when I get a chance.
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On January 09 2011 20:36 cilinder007 wrote:whell from playing these maps, most of them are just freewin for zergs...
Thats a really silly statement and the sort of thing that might get you a warning on these forums :p - your own experiences reflect nothing of how it will cause the metagame to evolve not to mention what kind of strategies developed by players specifically for these new maps.
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They look pretty nice to be honest, might give them a try later.
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Great news, at least they are (trying) willing to improve their tournament, that's one step towards succes! Keep it up gsl!
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I actually took a closer look to the maps and most of them SUCK
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
On January 09 2011 20:42 debasers wrote:
I actually took a closer look to the maps and most of them SUCK
to be honest only biohazard seems silly because it doesn't have flat terrain.
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I just played a game on Tal'Darim Altar and one on Terminus. I absolutely loved the way they felt. It makes the game feel so much more open than a steppes of war match. I really hope blizzard will add these maps to the ladder.
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this is some seriously uplifting news. very happy to see gomtv taking some initiative and looking to introduce some fresh maps into the currently stagnant pool.
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Wow, this looks great. I've been wanting it's great just to get new maps to mix it up a little bit.
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Could someone please add Terminus to the NA servers? T_T
(or test the rush distances for me using a marine)
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On January 09 2011 21:12 [wh]_ForAlways wrote:
Could someone please add Terminus to the NA servers? T_T
(or test the rush distances for me using a marine)
do you know how to publish maps ? :D
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Australia8532 Posts
So i suppose they do listen :O i am glad they getting into this as it provides some hope for community map makers
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On January 09 2011 21:15 smileyyy wrote:
do you know how to publish maps ? :D
No idea . If you give me the file I can try and figure out how to do it though, haha.
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Maps look beautiful, colourful and vibrant. Can't wait to try them
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On January 09 2011 15:36 RinconH wrote:Here is a recent Gisado game on "Terminus": http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404045You can tell how much richer these maps have the potential to make the game. That is one of the more back and forth games I've seen.
Can someone tell me why after a few minutes of playing the video just ends and goes to advertisements and a different game? Could it be related to me having to pause to let the video buffer? I just downloaded the newest version of the GOM player and idk why it's not working :[
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Uploaded Terminus RE to BNet for NA servers
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Great news. Especially getting rid of blistering and DQ makes me happy.
The new maps don't seem great either though but we'll have to wait and see.
Maps should be modeled to be like xel naga and shakuras more imo. Decent size map while not being too large and offering multiple oppurtunities. LT/meta close spawn should be removed as well imo.
I do hope blizzard also changes their map pool according to this though, I hate to see the ladder pool and the 'real' maps be different. Nothing worse then practicing ladder on maps you know are retarded and not used in any serious event.
It also looks to be a zerg buff / terran nerf to make the maps a bit bigger in general.
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Oh fuck yes crossfire, i goddamn love that map. THANK YOU GOM.
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On January 09 2011 21:24 Markwerf wrote:
It also looks to be a zerg buff / terran nerf to make the maps a bit bigger in general.
I agree they need to shrink the maps a little.
Any word on what the unknown map is yet?
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Would be awesome. Scrap Station be pulled too should be fine !
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Terminus Re looks really interesting for PvZ given that if you Forge F/E the third is basically free, maybe a rise of 2 nexus before gate? :o
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I have played both the GSL maps and the ICCUP maps and i haev got to say that I like ICCUP much more. Just because they are bigger doesn't mean all the problems are gone. Garden of Aiur is almost as bad as jungle basin pvz instead of zerg not being able to get a fourth now they can't stop toss from getting a deathball. Even though i support iccup and I know their staff will listen to top players anything is better than the current blizzard maps that never change!
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On January 09 2011 21:46 Dont Panic wrote:I have played both the GSL maps and the ICCUP maps and i haev got to say that I like ICCUP much more. Just because they are bigger doesn't mean all the problems are gone. Garden of Aiur is almost as bad as jungle basin pvz instead of zerg not being able to get a fourth now they can't stop toss from getting a deathball. Even though i support iccup and I know their staff will listen to top players anything is better than the current blizzard maps that never change!
Iccup maps are poorly done. They have ramp issues where it takes more buildings to wall off and you have to kind of relearn how to play.
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On January 09 2011 21:50 Joroth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 21:46 Dont Panic wrote:I have played both the GSL maps and the ICCUP maps and i haev got to say that I like ICCUP much more. Just because they are bigger doesn't mean all the problems are gone. Garden of Aiur is almost as bad as jungle basin pvz instead of zerg not being able to get a fourth now they can't stop toss from getting a deathball. Even though i support iccup and I know their staff will listen to top players anything is better than the current blizzard maps that never change! Iccup maps are poorly done. They have ramp issues where it takes more buildings to wall off and you have to kind of relearn how to play.
Just because they have different ramp sizes and players need to adapt their play depending on the map (like in broodwar) doesn't make it a bad thing at all. Infact forcing players to change thier styles/builds for different maps will make it a more interesting game.
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Finally. I think the quality of those maps isn't the main reason to rejoice here. The simple fact that GOM change maps is an important step for all sc2 esports The biggest sc2 tournament is pretty much saying : "blizzard you maps sucks". Other tournaments should follow and probably use gsl maps, and in time, the ladder map pool should become more flexible. That's what matter
And as far as I'm concerned i do like these maps which reflect the kind of game i wish to see more in sc2 in the future, since they seem to be more macro oriented. But obviously cheesy or allin players could be a bit disapointed. The only remaining question is the balance of those maps, but that should take time to be evaluated.
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This is really great news, tried the maps and they look awesome, wish some small online tournament uses them to check how they play in high level.
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On January 08 2011 23:01 Telcontar wrote:
PLEASE for the love of god use some community created maps.
No, for the love of god no.
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Being a Zerg player by heart...
It's a very happy new year indeed.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49972 Posts
On January 09 2011 22:45 Comrade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 23:01 Telcontar wrote:
PLEASE for the love of god use some community created maps. No, for the love of god no.
please do use community created maps.
and why the fuck not?
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On January 09 2011 21:33 NexUmbra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 21:24 Markwerf wrote:
It also looks to be a zerg buff / terran nerf to make the maps a bit bigger in general. I agree they need to shrink the maps a little. Any word on what the unknown map is yet?
There are 5 maps in the first post
edit: ok, the one that'll be taken out...
brainlag on my side :D
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Something I have just noticed about TerminusRe is that there are Rich Vespene Geysers, there is only one of them at a base.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/kg6tL.jpg)
It also looks different to a normal vespene geyser.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/bjIEA.jpg)
6 vespene gas is returned instead of the usual 4.
:o
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Is there anyway to download and start playing on theses maps?
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Oh i thought the rich vespene geysers had fucked up pathing but looks like i'm wrong
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On January 09 2011 23:46 RatInPink wrote:
Is there anyway to download and start playing on theses maps?
Those maps are already uploaded on EU, NA, KR Battle.net. Search for 'GSL'
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These maps look huge!
Seems to be good but I'm still concerned since starcraft 2 lacks a lot of units that can be microed to change a battle outcome. So with maps being so big it will just be a 200/200 battle over and over again with Zerg having a slight advantage due to saving up larvae and being able to reinforce really quick. The 300 food push as day9 calls it.
Other than that 200/200 battles will eventually get repetitive.
But aside from those small concerns it's great that GSL is listening and making changes to make Starcraft 2 more entertaining to watch. Which will help solidify it into a more mainstream e-sport like Starcraft: Brood War.
Good news either way!! :D
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While this is cool, the sad reality for me is that I won't actually get to play these matches since all my friends that played SC2 are playing WoW and I'm stuck laddering only with the Blizzard map pool.
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On January 09 2011 23:58 Raion wrote:
These maps look huge!
Seems to be good but I'm still concerned since starcraft 2 lacks a lot of units that can be microed to change a battle outcome. So with maps being so big it will just be a 200/200 battle over and over again with Zerg having a slight advantage due to saving up larvae and being able to reinforce really quick. The 300 food push as day9 calls it.
Other than that 200/200 battles will eventually get repetitive.
But aside from those small concerns it's great that GSL is listening and making changes to make Starcraft 2 more entertaining to watch. Which will help solidify it into a more mainstream e-sport like Starcraft: Brood War.
Good news either way!! :D
You're wrong about units not being microable and I think you will be proven wrong more and more for every new macro match in GSL.
But yes this is great news!
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On January 09 2011 21:20 [wh]_ForAlways wrote:Can someone tell me why after a few minutes of playing the video just ends and goes to advertisements and a different game? Could it be related to me having to pause to let the video buffer? I just downloaded the newest version of the GOM player and idk why it's not working :[
Not sure what you are running into... generally there are 2-3 ads prior to the game and 2-3 afterwards but not during the game from what I've seen.
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On January 10 2011 00:59 RinconH wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 21:20 [wh]_ForAlways wrote:On January 09 2011 15:36 RinconH wrote:Here is a recent Gisado game on "Terminus": http://ch.gomtv.com/4555/28119/404045You can tell how much richer these maps have the potential to make the game. That is one of the more back and forth games I've seen. Can someone tell me why after a few minutes of playing the video just ends and goes to advertisements and a different game? Could it be related to me having to pause to let the video buffer? I just downloaded the newest version of the GOM player and idk why it's not working :[ Not sure what you are running into... generally there are 2-3 ads prior to the game and 2-3 afterwards but not during the game from what I've seen.
It's not that the ads are during the game.. it's that the video ends prematurely and then goes on to the next game for some reason.
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On January 09 2011 22:01 nathangonmad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 21:50 Joroth wrote:On January 09 2011 21:46 Dont Panic wrote:I have played both the GSL maps and the ICCUP maps and i haev got to say that I like ICCUP much more. Just because they are bigger doesn't mean all the problems are gone. Garden of Aiur is almost as bad as jungle basin pvz instead of zerg not being able to get a fourth now they can't stop toss from getting a deathball. Even though i support iccup and I know their staff will listen to top players anything is better than the current blizzard maps that never change! Iccup maps are poorly done. They have ramp issues where it takes more buildings to wall off and you have to kind of relearn how to play. Just because they have different ramp sizes and players need to adapt their play depending on the map (like in broodwar) doesn't make it a bad thing at all. Infact forcing players to change thier styles/builds for different maps will make it a more interesting game.
Wait, which iCCup maps have ramp issues? If there is seriously a map with this issue, let us know so we can fix it.
Our current map pool doesn't have any unusual ramps as I know it. All of the main-natural ramps are 1x, naturals are average 9-12hex, and other ramps are exactly how wide they need to be.
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After seeing the reverse-Swastika in the middle of Biohazard in that picture, I can't help but notice it every time I see the map now.
Still, I'm happy that things are getting mixed up, regardless.
Time to go DL the maps.
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On January 08 2011 23:04 MorroW wrote:
thats absolutely amazing news. idont even care if the new maps are just as garbage because this shows signs of gsl listening to the community and taking a new step in sc2 history
+1 Couldn't say it better. I hope the 4th map taken out is Jungle Basin.
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A: Hey dude, did you ever watch SC:BW
B: Yea, a bit, like 1 or 2 videos here and there, what about it?
A: Well don't you remember Boxer's gosu Wraith control?
B: OMG yea, where the Zerg's natural was like exposed, and he killed every single drone in it.
A: Yyyeah, then got a million Marines and busted like 6 sunkens before lurker was finished. Old version ^^ keke.
B: Hunh? Yeah, I liked that game.
A: Do you remember WCG? With like Stork just fkin killing like every Terran on like 2 maps in the pool WITH THE SAME STRATEGY?
B: Uuh, sorry dude, I only watched a highlights video of that Boxer game, not WCG. The only WCG thing I've heard of with Stork is that game versus Satanik where he 2-gated vs 12-pool and I don't think he lost A SINGLE UNIT ALL GAME.
A: Yea, but compare that to manner-pyloning your opponent, and then BUILDING GATEWAYS behind his mineral line!
B: lolwut?
A: Nah, it's impossible, some scrubs on Battle.net were talking about it and I thought it was a funny idea.
B: Hmm.
A: You'd have to be, like, the best player in the world AND a sex-god to do that.
B: Hhm, not the sexy part, but still, *drool* ...
A: OMG I just remembered!
B: What?
A: Ok, what am I thinking of, what am I thinking of, "Nal Ra vs Savior".
B: Oh I know, where he cannon rushed on that, that map... Like TWICE! That VOD was EPIC.
A: Yea, that too, but there was a different game that I'm thinking about.
B: Dunno.
A: Yea you do, think "holy".
B: "holy? What, 'holy moly'?
A: Noooo, ok, same map that we were talking about before.
B: What, one of the Stork-pwns-with-carriers-in-WCG? I told you, I just play SC2 man.
A: That doesn't matter, so do I nowadays. It isin't so well known for that, it's the same map where NaDa did that fucking crazy lifting-a-proxy-factory-to-win-the-OSL...
B: Nope... So what is it again? So there's Horror Gates.
A: WCG
B: Boxer-wraiths, right?
A: Yup.
B: Nal Ra v Savior, like double cannon-rush.
A: NaDa winning the OSL with a lifted factory.
B: And something about "holy".
A: ...
B: Nope, still don't know it.
A: And you said you were on teamliquid.net ...
B: Oh yea, but I've minimized all the forums I don't read y'know, the front page's got it all there . Who is it that spotlights stuff anyways?
A: Mani, well that's all I know for sure.
B: Who?
A: Thor, er I mean an admin, it's ok if you don't know him, or any of the other stuff I was talking about, it's just that that stuff is what I grew up with, and I LOVE IT mayne, it's like my childhood
B: Yea, no problem, that's cool.
A: And I guess it's cool if you don't read other parts of TL too, it's up to you I guess.
B: Thanks dude, respect for respect.
A: Oh yeah, and I wasn't serious about the sex-god thing. Lemme amend that statement: "You'd have to be, like, the best player in the world AND a sex-god play on SK T1 to do that.
B: Haha lol, wasn't that the team that SlayerSBoXeR was on.
A: Yea, one of them, he founded it.
B: No way!
A: Yup.
B: Shieet...
A: Getting back to that map I was talking about, ARE YOU SURE you don't remember it? Go back in your [story] memory, take a look at all the hints I gave you, and tell me you DON'T KNOW IT.
B: ...*time passes*
B: Ok, done that, and still nothing.
A: OMG WUT DE IMMA STAB... LOok *controls anger*, *sigh*, they remade it for Starcraft 2.
B: OOOHH you mean
+ Show Spoiler +dedicated to my IRL friend RexyRex
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On January 08 2011 23:02 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Crossfire sucks. The nat is so open on top of having a wide ramp and a backdoor, and the mineral formations suck. Also the towers aren't along the main pathing which is just a personal peeve of mine. The tightness of the middle makes it unlikely it'd be balanced.
Ya but by the time you attack someones natural and crossed that huge ass map with just about anything the defender had time to build almost 2 times his army size.
Battles on that map are unlikely to be done around the natural unless some cheese is involved and more likely going to be around control for that Xelnaga, since controlling the Xelnagas means you either deny your opponent a safe 4th, or you get one of your own.
I'm a fan of new maps, not a huge fan of new maps just to make old maps but on a larger grid. Have my reasons, but rather not go too far into it.
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how do I search for these exactly?
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On January 10 2011 02:05 koOma wrote:how do I search for these exactly?
SEARCH GSL
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On January 10 2011 02:01 bITt.mAN wrote:+ Show Spoiler +[/spoA: Hey dude, did you ever watch SC:BW B: Yea, a bit, like 1 or 2 videos here and there, what about it? A: Well don't you remember Boxer's gosu Wraith control? B: OMG yea, where the Zerg's natural was like exposed, and he killed every single drone in it. A: Yyyeah, then got a million Marines and busted like 6 sunkens before lurker was finished. Old version ^^ keke. B: Hunh? Yeah, I liked that game. A: Do you remember WCG? With like Stork just fkin killing like every Terran on like 2 maps in the pool WITH THE SAME STRATEGY? B: Uuh, sorry dude, I only watched a highlights video of that Boxer game, not WCG. The only WCG thing I've heard of with Stork is that game versus Satanik where he 2-gated vs 12-pool and I don't think he lost A SINGLE UNIT ALL GAME. A: Yea, but compare that to manner-pyloning your opponent, and then BUILDING GATEWAYS behind his mineral line! B: lolwut? A: Nah, it's impossible, some scrubs on Battle.net were talking about it and I thought it was a funny idea. B: Hmm. A: You'd have to be, like, the best player in the world AND a sex-god to do that. B: Hhm, not the sexy part, but still, *drool* ... A: OMG I just remembered! B: What? A: Ok, what am I thinking of, what am I thinking of, "Nal Ra vs Savior". B: Oh I know, where he cannon rushed on that, that map... Like TWICE! That VOD was EPIC. A: Yea, that too, but there was a different game that I'm thinking about. B: Dunno. A: Yea you do, think "holy". B: "holy? What, 'holy moly'? A: Noooo, ok, same map that we were talking about before. B: What, one of the Stork-pwns-with-carriers-in-WCG? I told you, I just play SC2 man. A: That doesn't matter, so do I nowadays. It isin't so well known for that, it's the same map where NaDa did that fucking crazy lifting-a-proxy-factory-to-win-the-OSL... B: Nope... So what is it again? So there's Horror Gates. A: WCG B: Boxer-wraiths, right? A: Yup. B: Nal Ra v Savior, like double cannon-rush. A: NaDa winning the OSL with a lifted factory. B: And something about "holy". A: ... B: Nope, still don't know it. A: And you said you were on teamliquid.net ... B: Oh yea, but I've minimized all the forums I don't read y'know, the front page's got it all there .Who is it that spotlights stuff anyways? A: Mani, well that's all I know for sure. B: Who? A: An admin, it's ok if you don't know him, or any of the other stuff I was talking about, it's just that that stuff is what I grew up with, and I LOVE IT mayne, it's like my childhood B: Yea, no problem, that's cool. A: And I guess it's cool if you don't read other parts of TL too, it's up to you I guess. B: Thanks dude, respect for respect. A: Oh yeah, and I wasn't serious about the sex-god thing. Lemme amend that statement: "You'd have to be, like, the best player in the world AND a sex-god play on SK T1 to do that. B: Haha lol, wasn't that the team that SlayerSBoXeR was on. A: Yea, one of them, he founded it. B: No way! A: Yup. B: Shieet... A: Getting back to that map I was talking about, ARE YOU SURE you don't remember it? Go back in your [post-history] memory, take a look at all the hints I gave you, and tell me you DON'T KNOW IT. B: ...*time passes* B: Ok, done that, and still nothing. A: OMG WUT DE IMMA STAB... LOok *controls anger*, *sigh*, they remade it for Starcraft 2. B: OOOHH you mean *&@^#&%(@*#&$(%*@&#($%&#*@&$*!($*#@ dedicated to my IRL friend RexyRex
wut?
The wierd thing about the rich gas geyser is that it means there is only half as much gas at that expo :/
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On January 10 2011 02:05 koOma wrote:how do I search for these exactly?
By reading the OP. Or searching GSL, whichever you feel is most convienent.
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Played some games. Feels like terran is going to need a buff if we get bigger maps like these ones. I just hope that GSL doesn't get statistics along the lines of:
PvT 65%
PvZ 47%
ZvT 65%
and decides not to use bigger maps because of balance issues... Rather they should just inform blizzard that the game is broken on real maps instead.
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On January 10 2011 02:25 ParasitJonte wrote:
Played some games. Feels like terran is going to need a buff if we get bigger maps like these ones.
Or, Terran can change it up a little bit for larger maps.
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oO I played once Tal'Darim Altar and Biohazard and I have to say... The look way better in game :p GREAT MAPS. They ARE HUGE. I Hope Blizzard will add them as well !
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Just played a few games on all these maps. I love them. (but not sure with crossfire...that map annoys me a bit)
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this is a turning point! in the right direction!:D Lets now just wish tsl will have them too and hopefully some kind of ladder will change too.
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I had a talk with Gisado about this issue and he said "I can not answer weather or not those maps are going to be included on GSL map pool because map pool change requires extreme cautions. I can't give you a definite answer, but I can say it is a positive atmosphere in progress."
I added this on OP also.
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On January 10 2011 03:07 Xeph wrote:
I had a talk with Gisado about this issue and he said "I can not answer weather or not those maps are going to be included on GSL map pool because map pool change needs extreme cautions. I can't give you a definite answer, but it is a positive atmosphere in progress."
I added this on OP also.
A such caution which leads to keep steppes, DQ and stuff?
But i understand the fact that you have to be careful with the size of the maps. I think the map size should be transitioning slowly into big maps to let terrans adapt their playstyle.
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Love the map Tal'Darim Altar
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I cannot wait for the next patch. I eagerly await it's many changes. Channels, maps, new leagues, stat reset, balance, hotkeys. And, now more maps!
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crossfire reminds me of a BW Map, it has the same structure, just don't remember the name
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rich vespene = terrazine?^^
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On January 10 2011 03:59 never_Nal wrote:
crossfire reminds me of a BW Map, it has the same structure, just don't remember the name
This has been said a lot, its Sin Peaks of Baekdu. + Show Spoiler +
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One small step for GSL, one giant leap for Sc2!
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Russian Federation24 Posts
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I think it would be cool if blizzard atleast featured those, so that we can find people to play them, maybe someone could post that on the bnet forums, although i dont think they would do that.
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Now SC2 players that are used to small maps like steppes will argue that these maps are boring. Cuz you can't all in, or win with one push haha :->
And just use 1+a :D
Map control will start :D Huge step forward for GSL and SC2. I only can ask them why didnt they start to make maps like that a month or 2 ago. But still Im very happy :D
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this maps are really beautifull 
It was bout time.
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Wow these are amazing. I really cannot wait to see games played on these maps. Matches should be insane. Hooray!
Gl and Hf!
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On January 10 2011 04:32 wessie wrote:
Now SC2 players that are used to small maps like steppes will argue that these maps are boring. Cuz you can't all in, or win with one push haha :->
And just use 1+a :D
Map control will start :D Huge step forward for GSL and SC2. I only can ask them why didnt they start to make maps like that a month or 2 ago. But still Im very happy :D
yeah I think one big reason why fights are often 1 ball versus 1 ball is because of map size and distance between mains
with bigger maps, I think there should be more multiple battles occurring at the same time and a player's ability to multitask will be really tested.
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Finally!!!
Maybe now we can have some good long macro battles instead of five minutes of cheese.
It will be a good day when we see an hour long GSL match 
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Now SC2 players that are used to small maps like steppes will argue that these maps are boring. Cuz you can't all in, or win with one push haha :->
And just use 1+a :D
Map control will start :D Huge step forward for GSL and SC2. I only can ask them why didnt they start to make maps like that a month or 2 ago. But still Im very happy :D
The people at Blizz/GOM themselves didn't make these. These are "community" made maps. They're simply testing these. Or at least, according to NspGenius.
Also remember these are simply candidates... they're not saying larger maps is the solution.
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Terminus looks awesome and well designed, but does it look like the 3rd of one base is in more danger than the 3rd of the next base after it counter-clockwise ?
for example player in 12' has shorter distance to attack the third of player in 3'
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On January 10 2011 05:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Also remember these are simply candidates... they're not saying larger maps is the solution.
That's right, but by looking at the 5 maps they have chosen (all of them are pretty big) and the 3 they removed (which are really small, at least 2 of them) it sure looks like they think large maps might be the solution.
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I think these cliffs are fine... Cuz u can easily clean it off cuz u can surround the cliff.. Not like on Kulas or LT.
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On January 10 2011 05:50 wessie wrote:I think these cliffs are fine... Cuz u can easily clean it off cuz u can surround the cliff.. Not like on Kulas or LT.
As I understand it, roaches can attack the entire cliff because its small. This should be fine, but we'll see. Just adds another cool dynamic to the game.
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Ya I just hope the Patch will come soon with the new maps
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This is so great. I just hope we will be able to ladder on the same maps so that players newer to the competitive scene will have a shot at practicing on them. It is definately a step in the right direction though.
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Maps look beautiful. Cant wait to see the evolution of play on these. Hope they are used in the next GSL (and, in my wildest dreams, the ladder map pool; maybe the delay pertains to maps :D)
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BitByBitPrime better come up with some new all ins coz those maps are huge!!
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Fuck yeah.
Seriously, this is the best news I've heard regarding Starcraft 2 since it has come out.
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Who the hell is using my name....
User was warned for this post
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Wow.
So happy to see that major tournaments have the courage to go with Custom maps.
Cant wait to see these in action.
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This looks fantastic! Hopefully, we'll see fewer 1 base strategies and more multi pronged harassment that makes this game so much fun to watch.
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On January 10 2011 07:39 berestev wrote:
This looks fantastic! Hopefully, we'll see fewer 1 base strategies and more multi pronged harassment that makes this game so much fun to watch.
This is exactly right. Games on current Blizzard maps are SO boring on 1-2base (no harass), these will be shockingly entertaining games I think.
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HELL YEEEA
O man I am just so happy, really made my day
I wish these changes were actually being made to the battlenet map pool but wateva this just shows that these tourneys are really giving the fans wat they want. I really hope blizzard decides to make changes like this...
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Crossfire is a horrible map for Zerg against toss. There are really only two place to attack the toss and that's at both nats bc the middle of the map consists of norrow ground. No place to get a surround or good concave
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On January 10 2011 07:52 brutality wrote:
Crossfire is a horrible map for Zerg against toss. There are really only two place to attack the toss and that's at both nats bc the middle of the map consists of norrow ground. No place to get a surround or good concave
Nope. It looks way better when u play the map instead just look at it. There are plenty of good concaves u can make. I love the map and Im Zerg.
Definitely better map than both Delta or Steppes.
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I really hope these maps or any new maps from gsl make it to ladder. It would be nice maps change in ladder according to gsl map pool.
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I sincerely hope Blizzard steps up and does the same swaps for the ladder as they are doing for the GSL. Otherwise the pros who are playing in the GSL won't have any reason to use the ladder - what if they hit a map that's not in the GSL? It would be a complete waste of time.
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I dont like maps with rotational symmetry. If you dont spawn cross position, the map isnt the same for the players, which isnt fair imo.
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Damn this is so freaking awesome. Its about time.
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love the maps tried some today and its great
steppes and blistering sand gotta go!!
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On January 10 2011 07:59 wessie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:52 brutality wrote:
Crossfire is a horrible map for Zerg against toss. There are really only two place to attack the toss and that's at both nats bc the middle of the map consists of norrow ground. No place to get a surround or good concave Nope. It looks way better when u play the map instead just look at it. There are plenty of good concaves u can make. I love the map and Im Zerg. Definitely better map than both Delta or Steppes.
I have played many games on Crossfire and I can definiatly say that Protoss will rape zerg on it. I played vs someone today many times and stalker immortal balls are IMPOSSIBLE to break on this map.
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No more blistering. I took that map off after the roach 4 range and never looked back.
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I haven't played them yet, but I'm a little apprehensive about these maps as a zerg player.
Aiur Garden: The free natural and need to kill rocks to take the third. If a P/T FEs then the zerg has to make units to kill the rocks to keep up reducing drones more. It seems to me like FE -> 2 base timing attack vs zerg will be very strong, the zerg has to take a third to be equivalent in macro and has to cut drones to do so. And if you look at the third, it's in a little enclave which looks like it will be hard for runbys, especially with proper wall off between the outer mineral patch and CC, while fairly good for drops because of the space.
On Biohazard... those look like droppable cliffs on everything except main bases and the golds...... yeaaaaaah.
They are better than JB/steppes/DQ though.
Edit: So yeap, I tested Biohazard and siege tanks can get in range of the natural and gas lines but not mineral lines from cliff, tanks can get everything on the third from the cliff though.
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Wait, wait look at the maps pretty much all easy thirds and fourths. Does this mean majority of macro games instead of 2 base??
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Isn't the first map eexactly like Delta Quadrant? We still have the same problem and if you ask me only problem of Delta Quadrant that depending on where you spawn youyour backdoor expo can be abused so much more easily then on other spawn. And this map is exactly the same.
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On January 08 2011 23:03 Scar wrote: One of the weaknesses of the zerg races I feel like is their susceptibility to rushes
Zerg susceptible to rushes, cats sleeping with dogs..
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why are the GSL maps be overrun with rocks? To me it seems horrible for zerg having rocks everywhere. Its unnecessary clutter.
My main concern is what would happen to the 'official' ladder, as in would blizzard update it to correspond with GSL or not.
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homg..........i hope to god blizzard puts those maps in the mappool as per gsl standard :O
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Finally GSL is taking action to change the awful map pool currently. Hopefully these new maps work out really nicely and make Blizzard take action to not only have a better ladder map pool, but to balance the game around these maps rather than balancing the game around maps like Delta Quadrant.
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You know you love starcraft when you are genuninly excited about this update. I've played crossfire a few times with a friend and i's quite a fun map. Can't wait to get my hands on the other ones and take them for a spin!
Everyone prepare for Day[9] to dedicate a daily to the new maps that actually make it in, or if he is baller enough, look at the maps and say what he likes and not likes and talk the races and what they could do on the map and which ones he would like to see in there and the ones he doesn't with his usual obvious SC2 wisdom and why.
Then after posting let the GOMtv people totally not watch it or listen to what he has to say. But behind closed doors, they totally will lol
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the maps that have rocks for 3rd and 4th expansions are perfectly reasonable. The surface area on the rocks are really quite huge, you'd be surprised how fast the rocks go down to a full zergling surround. I played Auir Garden and the rocks aren't an issue, there is plenty of time to destroy rocks after your 2nd base is saturated.
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On January 10 2011 10:20 Kammalleri wrote:
Isn't the first map eexactly like Delta Quadrant? We still have the same problem and if you ask me only problem of Delta Quadrant that depending on where you spawn youyour backdoor expo can be abused so much more easily then on other spawn. And this map is exactly the same.
The difference is the rocks are located at the front base rather than the rear. This allows for Zerg to prevent Protoss and Terran from grabbing a free 3rd base (though the free expo is still a big issue) as well as allowing for zerg to grab a safe FE rather than having to defend the frontal expansion.
There's also longer rush distances and no backdoor drops/cliff abuse.
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lol at tsl using old stale maps
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You know what would make this amazing news? If Blizz replaced their maps with GSL maps.
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I tried these maps and they are pretty good but definitely don't have that blizzard polish. It would be nice if the GSL submitted the maps to blizzard for their review, and then Blizzard put them up for the public ladder.
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Nice, good to see some custom maps in the GSL rotation, hopefully Blizzard will allow other tournaments to use custom maps too.
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Hehe once again custom maps are being favored over BlizzMaps...
Eventually no one will even want to ladder on b.net due to shitty map pool... and EVENTUALLY there will be another ladder instead of b.net ladder (think iccup and bnet1.0)
Maybe GSL will break ties with Blizz and go on to be a PIRATE SERVER!!!!!! lolol
That's a bunch of jiberish, I know. But yay for new maps! XD
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OMG, this maps are so awsome, cant wait to try with friends when they come from work (4AM in EU right now lol).
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On January 10 2011 07:27 ForAlways wrote:
Who the hell is using my name....
User was warned for this post
I was here first :3
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these maps would be a massive improvement over what we have atm. glad that steppes of war, blistering sands and delta quadrant are porentially going. i personally hope jungle basin is the other map to go.
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FINALLY YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
ship them into ladder map pool as well.
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Just played some on Tal'Darim altar -- reminds me of longinus a bit and seems pretty nasty for zerg. Seigeable nat, tight chokes on nat both between main base and between nat and 3rd so toss can cannon rush painfully and forge fe easily and terran can bunker your choke pretty painfully.
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Uploaded some games here, if anyone knows a program to split .ogm files for free pm me (so I can add longer ones). Oh, and they're free so afaik Gom won't care, or they'll just take them down.
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Terminus Re on EU server is bugged - returning 10 minerals each trip when mining.
Edit: Same goes for Aiur Garden ... Is this only happening to me?
Edit2: Nvm seems i was playing the wrong ones, somone named "Tunneltraxx" are putting ones up that return 10 minerals per trip..
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I played on a few of these and here are my thoughts:
Auir garden seemed pretty cool, but I did not like some features on Tal'Darim altar. The ramp is too wide for a single forcefield, and even wider with the destructible rocks on the ramp destroyed. Stalkers can blink over the gap, if you were to double forcefield. You can build on the narrow point of the choke with the rocks, so you could pylon block it with two cannons and cannon contain.
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WOOO Plp behind GSL have a brain and are pushing for a dynamic fresh pro-scene, like in BW
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Wonder whats going to happen with this in the future. Will blizzard introduce maps gsl uses into the map pool? Will blizzard keep their map pool, thus rendering the rankings useless in time, because of imbalanced maps? Will another server like iccup develop so a ladder with gsl maps is used? If blizzard maps stay this bad, give it a few months and they will become far worse due to people improving and abusing them more, and ladder will be useless.
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Certainly is about time, but get rid of Scrap Station! That map is too gimicky to be interesting.
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Someone point them to the iCCup maps.
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I hope they disband the idea of putting Tal'Darim Altar in the GSL.
With no ramp and a choke at the main that is not blockable by 1 forcefield i think 4 warpgate all ins will be unstoppable (at least in PvP).
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Given the fact that GSL and Blizzard generally speak to each other, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard took their criticism in regards to the map pool into consideration. Hopefully that will result in some new maps coming out for the ladder as well.
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Blizzard should either implement these (and other good maps such as ICCUP maps) to their ladder pool OR make 2 different ladder map pools and have players choose which map pool they want to play on.
1. The normal one that will barely change like with any other Blizzard RTS.
2. The competitive one, which will change frequently and implement these type of custom maps.
This would allow pro players to practice on ladder and other random people to play good maps as well while still keeping the normal ladder pool for people who prefer it (IE nub friendly).
I'm aware it would split the community a little bit but I think it's safe to say 99% (or just 100%) of the competitive community would be playing the second map pool.
They would need to work out a system to choose which maps get rotated for new ones and how often but I don't think that would be too complicated.
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On January 10 2011 13:07 Kurr wrote:
Blizzard should either implement these (and other good maps such as ICCUP maps) to their ladder pool OR make 2 different ladder map pools and have players choose which map pool they want to play on.
1. The normal one that will barely change like with any other Blizzard RTS.
2. The competitive one, which will change frequently and implement these type of custom maps.
This would allow pro players to practice on ladder and other random people to play good maps as well while still keeping the normal ladder pool for people who prefer it (IE nub friendly).
I'm aware it would split the community a little bit but I think it's safe to say 99% (or just 100%) of the competitive community would be playing the second map pool.
They would need to work out a system to choose which maps get rotated for new ones and how often but I don't think that would be too complicated.
I think Blizzard should just give the people what they want and get rid of maps like DQ, Steppes, Blistering.
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HOLY SHIT FINALLY a major tournament decides to use non-ladder maps.... my god
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they all look kick ass exept for Aiur garden. The super safe in base seconds like that make for silly games, they almost always come down to 2 base timing pushes.
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Biohazard would be disgusting vs a Terran. Having walls enclosed around the expo AND a cliff would provide easy harassment from tanks. >.<
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i vote that tal darim alter does not go into pool i like the air garden alot it lets zerg surround protoss to use chokes and terran to use cliffs it will make fun games for sure
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On January 10 2011 13:14 Keitzer wrote:
HOLY SHIT FINALLY a major tournament decides to use non-ladder maps.... my god
Also happens to be THE major tournament. Props to GOM. Radical change is necessary.
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On January 10 2011 12:10 rift wrote:Uploaded some games here
Cool.
.
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On January 10 2011 13:23 shoopuhpowah wrote:
Biohazard would be disgusting vs a Terran. Having walls enclosed around the expo AND a cliff would provide easy harassment from tanks. >.<
it's a 3rd/4th, i THINK you'll have mutas out by then.
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I would love to see some different maps. There are too few.
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HOLY SHIT FINALLY a major tournament decides to use non-ladder maps.... my god
I hope you realize that Gom and Blizzard are so close that they're basically one and the same when you're talking about GSL maps.
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On January 10 2011 13:23 shoopuhpowah wrote:
Biohazard would be disgusting vs a Terran. Having walls enclosed around the expo AND a cliff would provide easy harassment from tanks. >.< I thought the map looked good... until I saw this video and realized that it was about the size of Steppes.
Then apparently Altar isn't viable for Toss because of the weird ramp, and Aiur has that weird isolated in-base second that is apparently very vulnerable to proxy air, but they should be more playable than what was lost.
At least, Terminus and Crossfire look really good.
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sweeeet this is awesome
thank you gom for taking the initiative to use custom maps in tournaments
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This is important news! I would love to see some new maps instead of the same crap over and over. Even if the balance isn't 100% optimal on these maps, this is a step in the right direction.
GSL, I love you.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Aiur Garden looks like an excellent map
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On January 10 2011 15:25 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 13:23 shoopuhpowah wrote:
Biohazard would be disgusting vs a Terran. Having walls enclosed around the expo AND a cliff would provide easy harassment from tanks. >.< I thought the map looked good... until I saw this video and realized that it was about the size of Steppes.
about the size of steppes??? The zerg sees the protoss moving out and has time to make over 11 roaches before he gets there. that doesn't happen on steppes. You should log onto Bnet and look up the map and play vs. an AI just to see how big it is before coming in here saying it is the size of the smallest map out there.
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This is great, looking forward to new maps
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Good Bye Jungle basin? Im assuming that is the 4th candidate for winning the "GTFO" award :3
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This is great news even if the maps were rubbish, finally some custom maps.
We played all the maps in our practice yesterday a few times in different matchups, Bio Hazard and Terminus feel nice and are also designed nice, TelDarim is ok aswell, Aiur plays out awkward but seems to work, and I didnt recognize the difference of the GSL crossfire and the blizzard crossfire, maybe we didnt look hard enough.
Summary is: nice maps, better than Steppes or Delta for sure, an improvement regardless of how the maps will turn out to be.
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This brings tears of joy to my eyes.
Maybe these maps will help foster 3-or-more-base play!! :D
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I still eagerly await the day when we may look back at the old Blizzard maps and feel comforted knowing that we now play on maps that add a level of beauty and depth to the game. I'm just glad we are finally taking a step toward that future.
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These maps look nice, especially for macro-oriented play. I'd be really excited to see Crossfire get in, as it's the only Blizzard map that my friends and I play on regularly in custom games. Crossfire is so much fun for big macro games, and when it goes to 3+ bases, you have to think to be able to defend both your expansions and the production at your main. Defensive drops, blink micro, creep spreading and killing, there are a lot of things that can happen just because it doesn't hinder late-game play in the way that some of the maps leaving do (looking at you, Steppes of War). It's also an "official" map, so it could end up in the ladder pool at some point even if custom maps never make it.
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Didn't read whole topic, but saw that many ppl think that iCCUP maps are good in Starcraft 2. I played on few of these maps with my friends and want to say that almost all today iCCUP maps for SC2 are totally garbage. I'm playing zerg, not the high skill, but I win often my friends on SC2 normal maps like Metalopolis, etc. I lost many games on these maps, because they are not good.
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After staring at the maps for some time, I have to say that I'm in love with the design of Aiur Garden - you got the natural basicly on a silver plate, but it is VERY vulnerable to air harassment. Which is awsome, because nobody likes maps where you just can't harass early on. Banshees, phoenixes and mutas lose their purpose otherwise.
On the other hand, you are free to expand more aggressively outside of your base, where it is much harder to harass with air-units since the mineral line is near the ledge of the main. This expansion, however, can be entered not only from one big ramp but from two, which makes it hard to secure early on, especially versus ling-run-bys.
It looks like semi-all-ins off two base should be do-able, but still not as easy as, say, on Xel Naga where you auto-lose your expansion since it can be attacked from a million different paths. Also, once you establish a dominant position on the main ground outside your base, you have secured yourself 4 bases and games enter real macro-mode - nevertheless it will be hard to secure both this ground and your main/back-natural vs drops in lategame, which, again, is awsome.
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On January 10 2011 15:25 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 13:23 shoopuhpowah wrote:
Biohazard would be disgusting vs a Terran. Having walls enclosed around the expo AND a cliff would provide easy harassment from tanks. >.< I thought the map looked good... until I saw this video and realized that it was about the size of Steppes. Then apparently Altar isn't viable for Toss because of the weird ramp, and Aiur has that weird isolated in-base second that is apparently very vulnerable to proxy air, but they should be more playable than what was lost. At least, Terminus and Crossfire look really good.
Interesting, you are given a choice to take the gold that doesnt have gas or a regular expansion that does have gas on Biohazard. Obviously, most people will favor the regular expansion due the gas except terran who probably going heavy bio. I am concern about the tight close gap path that leads to the regular 3rd though. Seems like it is very suspectible to force field seal. Loving the easy to defend natural and the distance is probably same as shakuras.
More interesting is that very early third inbase hatch. Which indicate that the map is indeed bigger than steps. Just adding a new map totally alters the meta game. I am liking where this is headed already.
Bigger map means that zerg will have to be better at creep spread. I saw the game on teremis and i just gotta say, those baneling didnt do ANYTHING. Creep spread must be on par to be able to do anything sufficiant. Otherwise we will be seeing more infestor + baneling + ling play in TvZ. I think this might be another key that has been over looked.
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what would be the point of ladder if GSL and ladder has different map pools ? Of course they're going to be the same
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On January 10 2011 15:25 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 13:23 shoopuhpowah wrote:
Biohazard would be disgusting vs a Terran. Having walls enclosed around the expo AND a cliff would provide easy harassment from tanks. >.< I thought the map looked good... until I saw this video and realized that it was about the size of Steppes. Then apparently Altar isn't viable for Toss because of the weird ramp, and Aiur has that weird isolated in-base second that is apparently very vulnerable to proxy air, but they should be more playable than what was lost. At least, Terminus and Crossfire look really good.
opening taken str8 from bw, pretty cool
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How can I upload these maps into my SEA server?
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I know its doubtful, but I want blizzard to take these steps as well. I would love to play on these new maps but have them count towards my overall ladder score. Don't remove Steppes though, actually like that one
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Has anyone spawns cross position of Aiur Garden? I played about 7 or 8 customs on it today and got spawned close position each time.
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Holy shit the natural on crossfire is exposed. That's going to be fun vZ. Forge first does alright but it still feels so much more vulnerable.
I'm scared
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how do you find these maps on the custome games list?
it says "search for GSL to play" but there isn't a search option...
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Just had a look over Aiur Garden and BioHazard.
Aiur Garden has some interesting features:
- very thick line of side blockers, u can really hide stuff there.
- 3rd/4th base blocked by rocks, but the natural very safe to get, maybe cause a problem for Zergs against FE-builds, because they dont have the units to counter expand early near them. On the other hand they expand far away because the maps are large.
- Good positions for all races.
conclusion: Very neat map, Im gonna try to get some games played on it. It seems to be very good.
BioHazard:
Gold expansion without Gas is sth I dislike pretty much, because it favours the massive marine play A LOT. Also the 3rd is hard to hold against Collossi and Tanks, while again u can take far awy 3rds =/
First look didnt please me yet
@FoFO
Create a game, there is the search option
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I just played a custom game on Aiur's Garden too, you can find it if you just search for GSL in custom games. I like the map. It feels like there is a lot of space which was actually a bit unnerving at first after being so used to games on small maps, but I think the map has a lot of potential to create good games.
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On January 08 2011 23:01 cilinder007 wrote:they wont remove scrap station ?!!? (
No reason in the world to do that.
OT:
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
That is all, thank you.
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FINALLY! now...if blizzard sees how popular/balanced these maps are, maybe they'll implement them on ladder o.o *crosses fingers*
edit: and im 99% sure the 4th map is scrap. that map is trash.
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On January 10 2011 23:27 da_head wrote:
FINALLY! now...if blizzard sees how popular/balanced these maps are, maybe they'll implement them on ladder o.o *crosses fingers*
edit: and im 99% sure the 4th map is scrap. that map is trash.
It's pretty bad but not as bad as jungle basin.
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after a couple of games on Aiur Garden i find the main to be kinda small.
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sweeeeeeet. Awesome news, and I guarantee that people will start playing these maps to practice too.
Biohazard looks like it might have tank drops but not thor drops hit the expo, also smaller cliff compared to LT - it's all within range of 1 well-placed spine crawler. Pop an OL up there and a spine at the base of the cliff? I'll try this out.
What's the korean reaction to these maps? I assume it's positive.
I bet the 4th map will be either LT or JB! But just a hunch.
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well, the biohazard pro VOD posted was boring like hell, 10 minute pure build up, unhindered expansions because distances are so long. Big balls clash. End. With those large maps the 200 supply cap will hurt Z a lot, because you cannot afford to have more than 3 expos mining, else you won't have enough supply for army. We'll likely see a lot of games were P and T will outmacro Z. Z is hurt most by supply cap because of weak units.
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On January 11 2011 03:36 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
well, the biohazard pro VOD posted was boring like hell, 10 minute pure build up, unhindered expansions because distances are so long. Big balls clash. End. With those large maps the 200 supply cap will hurt Z a lot, because you cannot afford to have more than 3 expos mining, else you won't have enough supply for army. We'll likely see a lot of games were P and T will outmacro Z. Z is hurt most by supply cap because of weak units.
In BW the 200 supply limit was fine because of the rate of mineral collection on a single base. In SC2 you can mine like 2x the number of minerals making army build ups a lot faster. 300 supply cap would be cool , but imagine a 300 supply voidray/collosus/stalker ball. Unstoppable.
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Hopefully the 4th map to go is jungle basin.
As for the new maps, the 4 player maps look amazing if you get cross spawns but just like delta and meta, most of them look like they will be absolute shit if you get close spawns.
I agree with many people, tho, that even if these maps aren't much better, the mere step of going away from what Blizzard has is a step in the right direction. If Blizzard didn't believe all the people who said their maps are shit they should now.
Edit: Oh shit it's crossfire. I hate that map. Terran can basically protect FOUR bases, including a gold, at a single choke. That watch tower covers all those areas, put a few tanks at that tower and you control every path into your side of the map outside of drops/air. Going to be an air heavy map against terran.
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On January 10 2011 14:38 Von wrote:Cool. .
Checked out the games, I really like Terminus Re however Biohazard still feels too small.
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Played a bunch of customs on these maps and they felt alright, though a few games went to a stalemate where the limiting factor wasn't mins or gas, but rather supply. I saw two players spam ravens and infestors because turrets and infested terrans don't cost supply >.<
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aiur garden was a lot of fun. played a few CG's on it last night. felt very SCBWish, great economies pumping units with lots of action and map control that mattered ie. being able to flank, run by etc. you actually had to pay attention to locations at all times as opposed to the crappy ladder maps that are so straightforward.
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Just tried Aiur Garden.I loved the way it felt.enough space for zerg to flank but some chockes for the toss to FF.It reminded me of Triathlon ,not by it's shape but by the expo which is only accesible from the main.
I felt this way when i played the SC 2 version of Fighting Spirit.
So we got a start.A tournament is adopting custom maps.And not just any tourney.One which is directly related to Blizz.
Now we all just need all the expansions and the units and we're set ! :D
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Some ICuup Maps pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On January 10 2011 13:12 MaD.pYrO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 13:07 Kurr wrote:
Blizzard should either implement these (and other good maps such as ICCUP maps) to their ladder pool OR make 2 different ladder map pools and have players choose which map pool they want to play on.
1. The normal one that will barely change like with any other Blizzard RTS.
2. The competitive one, which will change frequently and implement these type of custom maps.
This would allow pro players to practice on ladder and other random people to play good maps as well while still keeping the normal ladder pool for people who prefer it (IE nub friendly).
I'm aware it would split the community a little bit but I think it's safe to say 99% (or just 100%) of the competitive community would be playing the second map pool.
They would need to work out a system to choose which maps get rotated for new ones and how often but I don't think that would be too complicated. I think Blizzard should just give the people what they want and get rid of maps like DQ, Steppes, Blistering.
Sadly, there are a lot of people who actually enjoy all 3 maps. People in diamond - specifically a few in the 1000 - 1900 range - that I talk to actually love the heck out of at least 1 of those 3 ( usually Steppes oddly ). It takes several games in which I play as abusively as imaginably possible to make them understand why these maps are so bad. I think there would be more outcry ( and subsequent action ) if people on the NA ladder were bigger jerks about map imbalance.
But showing someone the 2 gate rush on Steppes that you can do when they spawn in the northern position and you put the gates up above the ramp in PvZ usually ends that opinion pretty fast. Or a 7 pool ling rush that is not even close to all-in because Steppes is an awful map.
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I like some of these maps. They seem to be a huge improvement over the ones they are replacing. Some of these seem to be as large as Shakuras. Hopefully GOM takes this as a first step and comes up with 15-20 good maps which promote macro based play and blizzard follows suit by making these standard on the ladder.
Not sure why they are not evaluating some of the ICCUP maps which seem to be great in that regard also.
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Just played 2 TvTs on Aiur Garden. It was pretty fun, just like BW. Expand anywhere you want, not to mention you have your nat and third close to your main. And contains weren't a problem, there was so much space. I'm pretty sure new strats will appear since it's so safe to even double expand on these maps. Can't wait to see the Code S play on them.
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Aiur Garden looks fucking sick and I've always enjoyed playing on Crossfire (1v1 my friends there quite a bit).
Is it just me or is Biohazzard OP as hell for terran will ALL THOSE HIGH GROUND ABUSE? Containing a zerg could not be easier. Then again this is all speculation from my shitty overview of the map.
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51398 Posts
what the fuck is with map makers fetish of putting rocks in every possible expansion place.
the only reason they were used in bw was to block paths and ramps. there is completely no reason at all to start throwing them at every expansion.
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These maps available on SEA? I want to play them they look great.
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Whats up with the rocks at half the expos on Tal'Darim? (It doesnt show on the pic, but when you play it they're there). I find that kinda dumb, though I do like the rocks on the ramp to your main, kinda letting you decide how wide you want your choke to be. Even with the rocks, i think the map is awesome.
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I agree that maps need to be bigger, but some of these maps are just so big that the entire way the game is played will change dramatically
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I advise everybody to at least give the maps a try before commenting too much! Also.. keep in mind that these are in no way final versions.. they have gone through many revisions as Gisado keeps them in the rotation during the star challenge.^^
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On January 11 2011 14:27 silentreality wrote:
I advise everybody to at least give the maps a try before commenting too much! Also.. keep in mind that these are in no way final versions.. they have gone through many revisions as Gisado keeps them in the rotation during the star challenge.^^
Do you know if players are liking them? It'd be interesting to know how they're going down with top level players and pros.
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On January 11 2011 12:03 Tomo009 wrote:
These maps available on SEA? I want to play them they look great.
Same
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On January 11 2011 11:37 GTR wrote:
what the fuck is with map makers fetish of putting rocks in every possible expansion place.
the only reason they were used in bw was to block paths and ramps. there is completely no reason at all to start throwing them at every expansion.
I think it's an attempt to prevent zerg to mass expand in huge maps
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I can't wait to see how these will play out. You can afford almost everything off of 3 bases. Combined with a huge long rush distance, we're either going to see epic macro games or a lot more proxies.
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I haven't read this entire thread but has a member of the iCCup map team contacted GOM stating they have some professionally built custom maps they'd like to be considered?
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On January 12 2011 00:05 Brandus wrote:
I can't wait to see how these will play out. You can afford almost everything off of 3 bases. Combined with a huge long rush distance, we're either going to see epic macro games or a lot more proxies.
Yes and thats how it should be. From my viewing of the GSL it seems that people seem to like 2 types of games
1. The long macro game with 3+ bases and lots of army trading.
2. The very short games where one player straight up cheeses. This is because this cheese has a lot more risk to it and usually creates for some fairly wacky games with a lot of ooh and aaah moments.
The games which are generally disliked are those 1 based timing pushes that occur around the 6:30-9 minute mark which usually result in a game with 5 minutes of buildup followed by a quick battle which is over before it started. These games are dull and a lot of the times the losing person loses because of a tiny mistake which is not very apparent to the casual viewer.
Hopefully the larger maps should get rid of these types of games and make it more appealing as a view sport.
BTW a side affect of these larger maps that we haven't seen here is the emergence of a lot more harass play using drop ships or other means since there is a 10 minute or so window where people just macro up. Someone will figure out soon enough like in BW that they can get a bigger advantage long term by harassing and killing a few workers or key buildings.
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On January 11 2011 15:30 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 12:03 Tomo009 wrote:
These maps available on SEA? I want to play them they look great. Same
As the OP said if you want to publish the maps just PM me. Its only 4 Mouse-Clicks so whoever wants to do that in SEA go ahead. :&
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Why Delta Quadrant? I suppose it's the worst of the 4-player maps but I would think they'd get rid of all the 2-player maps first. I can't think of a single 2-player map in the current ladder pool that I like.
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Just noticed isnt the lack of xelnaga a very bad con ?
edit towers i mean ...
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I have a really big concern with these upcoming changes and that is the quality of play. Maps like jungle basin and steppes of war force players to come up with different strategies and make play a little more interesting. I believe that when this map pool is brought out, all games will become long macro games with little to no variety. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, it is entertaining to watch a few games on a map that is completely different.
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Great move by the GSL....hopefully this will make things quite a bit more entertaining!
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On January 12 2011 03:22 darmousseh wrote:
I have a really big concern with these upcoming changes and that is the quality of play. Maps like jungle basin and steppes of war force players to come up with different strategies and make play a little more interesting. I believe that when this map pool is brought out, all games will become long macro games with little to no variety. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, it is entertaining to watch a few games on a map that is completely different.
This is a joke, isn't it?
The only thing maps like Steppes and Jungle (Steppes more so than Jungle) force is cheese. And cheese is, at least most people think so, NOT interesting.
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On January 12 2011 03:22 darmousseh wrote:
I have a really big concern with these upcoming changes and that is the quality of play. Maps like jungle basin and steppes of war force players to come up with different strategies and make play a little more interesting. I believe that when this map pool is brought out, all games will become long macro games with little to no variety. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, it is entertaining to watch a few games on a map that is completely different.
You can still cheese in BW-style macro maps. You're not required to unlike in Steppes of All-In.
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holy crap is it just me or these maps are just KICKASS?
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On January 12 2011 06:19 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 03:22 darmousseh wrote:
I have a really big concern with these upcoming changes and that is the quality of play. Maps like jungle basin and steppes of war force players to come up with different strategies and make play a little more interesting. I believe that when this map pool is brought out, all games will become long macro games with little to no variety. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, however, it is entertaining to watch a few games on a map that is completely different. You can still cheese in BW-style macro maps. You're not required to unlike in Steppes of All-In.
Yes. And as I mentioned before cheesing in the macro maps is a lot more fun since there is a much larger risk factor to it. Makes for some very interesting games then also.
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Watch the VODs. Terran's still good against Zerg
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these maps are freakin awesome, been playing them on the NA server, search for "GSL" in customs
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On January 12 2011 03:02 noD wrote:
Just noticed isnt the lack of xelnaga a very bad con ?
edit towers i mean ...
There are towers in all maps. 4 in Taldarim's Altar, Aiur Garden and Terminus Re, one in the middle of Biohazard and 2 in Crossfire.
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After playing two of the four new GSL maps (and looking at the other two) I think they are very beautiful, in a visual way of course, but not-so-practical. I understand that everyone wants more matches in the GSL that are over 8-10mins longer - so do I, but as these maps/gameplay develop (and watching the ICCUP maps) there are a few things to consider.
-ICCUP maps being used seemed to be pretty fairly balanced, with maps that leave options to players for a more early/mid game approach - with the very likely possibility of a late macro intensive game
-The new GSL maps are very aesthetically pleasing, but are a *possibly* being tested for FPS drop rates dealing with doodads and extras in the maps (ie Aiur Garden has a huge doodad in the middle that casts a warping style graphic) it's really not a big deal, just something to consider
-The new GSL maps definitely persuade people to go into a more fast expansion/late macro type of game, offering atleast one to two expansions (depending of destructible rocks)
I know the ICCUP reference has little to do here, they seem a little more viable to become a standardize map by Blizzard. just saying ;P
But, the new GSL maps offer a decently new perspective to the original blizzard maps - creating a very very macro intensive game
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If they put new maps into the pool it would make me the happiest little boy in the world
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Crevasse added to candidates.
OP updated.
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Actually Terran mech is becoming much more popular on these new GSL maps (i never saw this many hellion harasses in Gisado, but it's not just hellions), at least that's what I see on Gisado Star Challenge. And TvZ is turning into more BWesque as Muta Harass is getting much more popular and transition into mass ling-baneling is a bit like lurker-ling-ish (at least they both force the same reaction on enemy marines).
On January 12 2011 22:23 Xeph wrote:
Crevasse added to candidates.
OP updated.
Oh yes, I was just going to pm you about crevasse as I saw it in Gisado on this Monday or Tuesday, but you're a lot faster than I am.
Btw, Crevasse looks cool.
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Wow, scouting is going to likely be very late on Crevasse. I would definitely not look forward to scouting my opponent's position last on that one.
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On January 12 2011 02:44 andrewlt wrote:
Why Delta Quadrant? I suppose it's the worst of the 4-player maps but I would think they'd get rid of all the 2-player maps first. I can't think of a single 2-player map in the current ladder pool that I like.
Caverns is like the 2nd or 3rd best map in the entire blizzard pool. (its still got its problems though). Just like Meta is not really a good map either.
Quadrant is a really really bad map. Especially for zerg. I thumbs downed that map like day it came out. There are so many reasons to list that I'm not even going to.
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winpark, father of Aiur Garden, is here!
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gay to strong protoss on these maps
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These are probably the best maps ive ever played on so far in sc2
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Terminus Re is incredible. That one MUST be added. Ive already played some amazing games on it.
the first 2 are Way to big imo.
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For those of us who can't read Korean, what are the differences between 1.17 and the version on the U.S. server? They look identical from the screenshot, except the newer version looks like it has slightly darker lighting.
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On January 13 2011 10:59 Obscura.304 wrote:For those of us who can't read Korean, what are the differences between 1.17 and the version on the U.S. server? They look identical from the screenshot, except the newer version looks like it has slightly darker lighting.
I already sent mapfile to EU, NA server uploaders.
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These maps looks pretty sweet, can't wait for the change
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Yesterday I played a couple of games on Aiur Garden and I have to say I'm in love with this map - I wanna marry this map and have children with it who become all nice balanced maps when they grow up.
Playing the map it feels like a mixture of shakuras and lost temple with the best of both. Something that's immediately obvious is, that the natural in the back of your base is literally free, you get it on a silver plate. Nevertheless this expo is ridiculously exposed to air harass from basicly everywhere, in PvZ my phoenix-harass was really effective there.
The next thing that you notice when playing the map is, that the 3rd and 4th have rocks on it - especially in the PvZs this was pretty annoying to deal with, because even if the rocks at the 3rd are no problem at all, you kinda "never" feel safe enough to go and destroy the rocks at the 4th. It mostly feels better to just expand in one of the other mains while keeping the pressure up.
The 3rd itself is also quite easy to defend, even if there are two entrances, you can position your army in the middle and be fine. Nevertheless everything beyond that becomes ridiculously difficult to deal with and requires precise decisionmaking. Otherwise the newly aquired expos will just die. This whole set-up makes the openings highly macro and harassment-based, all-ins are extremely hard in comparison to, say, Xel Naga. Nevertheless, since everything beyond the 3rd becomes a nightmare to defend, the game doesn't evolve into a "static" campfest, like you have it sometimes on blistering sands when the map is split.
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While playing 1vs1 in Aiur Garden, you cannot find your opponent at the cross position.
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On January 13 2011 17:44 winpark wrote:
While playing 1vs1 in Aiur Garden, you cannot find your opponent at cross positions.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that (obviously I thought it was just a coincidence that I never got cross position when playing on it). Do you know why this is the case? Did the developers fear the map would have gotten "too big" and too much of a camp-fest? Because the running-distances don't really differ that much, the biggest difference is air harass/flying distance.
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On January 13 2011 17:44 winpark wrote:
While playing 1vs1 in Aiur Garden, you cannot find your opponent at the cross position. They should fix this if this is true. Cross positions should make good games.
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On January 13 2011 10:32 Reptilia wrote:
Terminus Re is incredible. That one MUST be added. Ive already played some amazing games on it.
the first 2 are Way to big imo.
That's what's so good about these maps, they're huge, we had a lot of fun playing on them yesterday.
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whats up with koreans and rocks :S
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For someone who never played brood war well, the size Aiur garden is really intimidating, I just played a 20 minute or so macro game against a protoss who spawned top left while i spawned top right, we barely TOUCHED the middle of the map, he was masters league and im 2400 diamond. I did drop a fourth at the bottom right but I didn't have time to saturate it before I won.
Interestingly although the map is huge close positions are still quite close. the enormousness of it could only be realized in a later game where its split down the middle
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I think Aiur Garden "looks bigger" when you don't play it - since there's no direct "path" from the fourth to your opponent, everyone kinda has to go through the middle to get anywhere. This never makes you feel like you could get flanked from ten different angles. At least for me the experience wasn't worse than, say, on Xel Naga where everything is so open to attacks and harassments from multiple sides.
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Aiur Garden is no longer used on Gisado Star-Challenge. I don't know it dropped from candidates or not.
Updated on OP also.
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On January 15 2011 02:55 Xeph wrote:
Aiur Garden is no longer used on Gisado Star-Challenge. I don't know it dropped from candidates or not.
Updated on OP also.
thats lame, I think it was the one that played the best of all of them.
hopefully its not dropped from candidates
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Legacy of the Void is now added on Gisado Star-Challenge map pool.
Updated on OP also.
I'm going to send new mapfile to NA, EU uploader.
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This may seem crazy or discussed allready, but why don't they try some of the iccup maps? They are really good...
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Oh man, taking a third is going to be a nightmare on Legacy of the void for Terran players, so many holes to the nat expo.
Btw trying out iCCup maps would be a huge slap to the face. They are renowned as the organization that allowed alternate/private servers for BW/WC3, much to the chagrin of blizzard. I doubt Blizzard/Gom will ever try out GSL maps just for political ramifications.
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On January 15 2011 03:00 Xeph wrote:
Legacy of the Void is now added on Gisado Star-Challenge map pool.
Updated on OP also.
I'm going to send new mapfile to NA, EU uploader.
it also appears they edited the main ramp on crossfire to be normal sized, is this true ?
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well crossfire will make for some weird but fun games where pushing the enemy may also leave more weaknesses and the other maps look awesome seriously everyone all ins in blizzard maps in 1 or 2 base is so stupid but i dont really like the lack of xelnaga watch towers
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Legacy of the Void must have the hardest to hold 3rd bases yet maybe after Blistering Sands :S
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Just played on taldair altar, and that was the by far most fun both me and my training partner have had in a long time. Huge battles, and while the huge battles you had to manage 6+ bases and attacks on them while you attack and keeping inject and upgrades and everything.
Finally, at least that map made me feel like 170-200 apm was so far from enough to be able to keep up with everything you wanna do. It was amazing. Hope at least that map gets in, since it was the absolute best/most fun I've had in a long time in sc-2. Awesome, just awesome.
This map forces you to defend mulitple locations attack and macro at the same time. Just awesome, just freaking awesome.
(sry if I am being uncontructive here, but that map was just the best thing to hit ladder ever. period)
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wooah took me friggin long to upload the 2 new maps Crevasse and Legacy of the Void should be playable on EU !.
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On January 15 2011 22:12 smileyyy wrote:
wooah took me friggin long to upload the 2 new maps Crevasse and Legacy of the Void should be playable on EU !.
UPDATED on OP
Thank you.
Sorry for my delay. I'm on vacation now
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On January 15 2011 10:59 saltygrapes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 03:00 Xeph wrote:
Legacy of the Void is now added on Gisado Star-Challenge map pool.
Updated on OP also.
I'm going to send new mapfile to NA, EU uploader. it also appears they edited the main ramp on crossfire to be normal sized, is this true ?
Yes that's true. I just sent new mapfiles to EU NA uploaders.
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I like how they all look the same
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Are these maps available to download anywhere?
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On January 16 2011 07:37 TehForce wrote:ATTENTION There is a bug on "Terminus Re". I played one game on it as Zerg vs Protoss and the Protoss could see my creep tumors without an observer!!!! Here is the replay. You can see it at 10:45! I don't know whom to message this bugreport Link: http://starcrafting.com/replays/sc2replay-download.php?key=3Kxof1
Thank you for you feedback!
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From zerg perspective after trying few maps I think crossfire is just plain horrible, I can't imagine zerg winning that map vs. collosus/storm or tanks. Then Aiur Garden is also bad, cause you pretty much can't hatch first because when you get canon rushed you can't put expansion in other exp. because all of them are with rocks. I don't know what's the reasoning behind making all expansions with rocks..
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Really excited for the future of Starcraft 2 with new maps.
I feel like nydus worms are going to be more important on the bigger maps for reinforcing an attack or setting up a contain. Especially so if going for hydralisks, as creep tumours are going to take a long time to spread to your opponent's base. This will make reinforcing with hydras especially weak.
But with a nydus worm it also puts creep down, and you can pop a queen through to get a few tumours out there too. So I can imagine the main and natural hatcheries rallied into to the nydus network and creep spreading out from a forward worm up to the opponent's base. And if he breaks your contain you can just retreat your hydras back into the nydus and unload them all at your main. This will ensure that slow hydras don't get picked off as they retreat off creep, and you will have ample time to set up defensive positioning before he can counter attack due to the large distances.
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On January 16 2011 07:37 TehForce wrote:ATTENTION There is a bug on "Terminus Re". I played one game on it as Zerg vs Protoss and the Protoss could see my creep tumors without an observer!!!! Here is the replay. You can see it at 10:45! I don't know whom to message this bugreport Link: http://starcrafting.com/replays/sc2replay-download.php?key=3Kxof1
The bug is fixed by LSPrime and the map will be updated. I sent bug-fixed mapfile to EU NA uploaders.
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Some thoughts on the maps after playing around in them a bit.
Aiur Garden, all paths converge into the center. That's no too bad considering LT/Metal/Shakuras all have convergence points where you can park your army and resonably defend all your expansions. Just HERE you can deny your opponent at the same time defending your own. Potential trouble there. We'll see.
Tal'Darim altar. I like the layout, but it seems too big? Can't say much else.
Biohazard. This map sucks.
Crossfire. Ramps and hallways is all this map is. It's forcefield heaven. Can't complain. I play Protoss. I do like the overall layout. Maybe some wiggle room can be added. Such as the center, remove those crevasses and open it up.
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Ok, after some games PvT I have to say, boooh Biohazard, the expansions in the middle are literally impossible to defend against any competent dropship-user.
Crevasse looks awsome, will try it tonight. I don't like legacy of the void, it seem like it's impossible to take a third, entrances everywhere.
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Is there any good place to watch games on these maps? I know they're on gomtv.com but the gomplayer is giving me a lot of trouble when I try to watch those videos with my horrible campus internet.
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tal'darim altar, crossfire, Terminus Re and Legacy of the Void all look pretty interesting, and id like to see them played
not too excited bout the other ones though
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Tal'Darim Altar is pretty nice but the gold expo's need gas geysire
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On January 20 2011 01:37 FooDSoldOne wrote:
Tal'Darim Altar is pretty nice but the gold expo's need gas geysire
Not neccesarily. There are many expos on BW maps that have minerals only. I think the point is so it is a toss up between more minerals or some minerals and more gas when expanding. Suddenly it is a tactical choice instead of a rush for the gold.
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Close position (ground) Meta really needs to be written out, like the ones on Shakuras. Wonder which of the "mystery maps" is gonna be the one pulled?
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I think Meta is a very good map but the close position suffers due to short rush distance and no viable third. I think instead of taking it out of the pool or something drastic, the best thing to do is for some map maker to enhance meta by stretching the middle area and converting the expansion in the bottom and top middle into two expansions. This will increase the rush distance between the bases and provide for a third which will be about as hard to take as the second is right now.Another enhancement that can be done is increasing distances between the close by air bases and adding an island expansion on each side.
I think these might change how this map plays enough to make it good in all positions. I would do it but I lack the editor skills to make these changes .
Not sure what can be done to LT though. Maybe edit it such that only cross position and close by air spawns are possible ?
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About the Crossfire SE map, can someone point out any other changes besides the main's ramp to the natural being smaller? (now the size of any ramp on a standard map like LT, instead of 1 size larger in Blizz's)
thanks in advance
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On January 20 2011 14:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:About the Crossfire SE map, can someone point out any other changes besides the main's ramp to the natural being smaller? (now the size of any ramp on a standard map like LT, instead of 1 size larger in Blizz's) thanks in advance
These are the changes I know:
-Main's ramp made 1x standard size
-3o'clock and 9o'clock expansions smaller
-middle side paths smaller (to expos)
-primary ramp to center high ground widened (1side, the original was asymmetrical)
-doodad trees added in unpathable areas
/edit
Image Comparison--
+ Show Spoiler [New] +
+ Show Spoiler [Old] +
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LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. So to make sure that it keeps going that way, they remove SoW DQ and JB or LT(I'm guessing the 4th map is). They replace them with huge maps which not a single one of them as a cliff at its natrual. But they decide to keep Shakuras and Scrap station? xD wow.. Terran just isn't meant to be a choice anymore it seems ^^
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On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. So to make sure that it keeps going that way, they remove SoW DQ and JB or LT(I'm guessing the 4th map is). They replace them with huge maps which not a single one of them as a cliff at its natrual. But they decide to keep Shakuras and Scrap station? xD wow.. Terran just isn't meant to be a choice anymore it seems ^^
Look how many Terran players there are in the last few rounds of every GSL...
January's semis are TTTP and the Code A finals are TvT.
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On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. So to make sure that it keeps going that way, they remove SoW DQ and JB or LT(I'm guessing the 4th map is). They replace them with huge maps which not a single one of them as a cliff at its natrual. But they decide to keep Shakuras and Scrap station? xD wow.. Terran just isn't meant to be a choice anymore it seems ^^
war idra! lol
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There is like 1 good zerg to 20 good terrans lol and people are complaining that zerg is OP lol
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Just hope not every map is a macro map. That would be boring also!
Variety for the win.
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Blizz, add those to the map pool, GOM is your partner!
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On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. So to make sure that it keeps going that way, they remove SoW DQ and JB or LT(I'm guessing the 4th map is). They replace them with huge maps which not a single one of them as a cliff at its natrual. But they decide to keep Shakuras and Scrap station? xD wow.. Terran just isn't meant to be a choice anymore it seems ^^
Are you serious? Lets have a little look at the GSL semi-final numbers...
Season 1: TTTZ
Season 2: TTTZ
Season 3: TTPP
Season 4A: TTTT
Season 4S: TTTZ
Yep, sure does look like Terrans haven't had much success.... oh wait....
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On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl.
Those are the only three races in the game....
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Sorry but can I download these maps to play offline ? Thanx
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On January 21 2011 23:49 Siwa wrote:
Just hope not every map is a macro map. That would be boring also!
Variety for the win.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind one or two small maps thrown in. Though in BW (in big maps), even big maps had 5 minute cheeses and all-ins (Shield Battery rush, proxy barracks, etc) so even if all the maps were big, there can still be plenty of variety.
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On January 22 2011 20:51 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. Those are the only three races in the game....
read better lol
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On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. So to make sure that it keeps going that way, they remove SoW DQ and JB or LT(I'm guessing the 4th map is). They replace them with huge maps which not a single one of them as a cliff at its natrual. But they decide to keep Shakuras and Scrap station? xD wow.. Terran just isn't meant to be a choice anymore it seems ^^
This post will give a few people brain damage.
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Cool, thanks monitor
Geez even looking at those two pics for the things you mentioned, it is hard to notice them xD
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NEW Candidate Map.
Merry-Go-Round(custom, 회전목마, KR available) by winpark
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Without having played any of the maps I must say that I like the maps from winpark the most. If rushdistances/openness for this last map work, the simplicity of it is ingenious.
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On January 24 2011 06:30 hugedong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 20:52 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even pre nerf terran, protoss and zerg won every gsl. So to make sure that it keeps going that way, they remove SoW DQ and JB or LT(I'm guessing the 4th map is). They replace them with huge maps which not a single one of them as a cliff at its natrual. But they decide to keep Shakuras and Scrap station? xD wow.. Terran just isn't meant to be a choice anymore it seems ^^ This post will give a few people brain damage.
I saw his terrible posts on the official Blizz forums and I hoped he wouldn't be able to make his way here. More macro based maps will make the game better and it's annoying having balance whiners on this thread. Especially ones who type like a young teen.
It might be because of all the empty spaces on the edges playing tricks on my eyes, but the three bases on each set look too close to each other. There seems to be virtually no chance for both players to split the third player's expansions.
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Still sucks that with LT and Metalopolis the randomness of spawn positions is such a huge factor in deciding the game. Actually close positions on these maps is worse than some of the maps they have eliminated.
Thats why I am wondering: why keep these close spawn positions? They could easily change the maps so that similarly to Shakuras only cross spawns or close air spawns on LT and metalopolis are possible. That would make these maps so much better and would take away much of the randomness.
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Merry-Go-Round and Updated Versions of Terminus and Altar are on Eu and should be shortly on the other servers as well.
Merry-Go-Round looks pretty nice :D 3Player maps
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On January 26 2011 03:04 smileyyy wrote:
Merry-Go-Round and Updated Versions of Terminus and Altar are on Eu and should be shortly on the other servers as well.
Merry-Go-Round looks pretty nice :D 3Player maps
Thank you for your work ALWAYS!
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New map added
Gettysburg
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The rocks at the nat are pretty interesting, also there is no really safe third, I could see myself rather taking the gold right away in PvT
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they should announce the change soon shouldn't they? since new season is coming up quickly
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Uploaded Merry-Go-Round + 2 other updated maps to SEA.
Is there meant to be a supply depot at the end of the ramp? :O
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United States7166 Posts
yeah. it's a lowered neutral supply depot, so basically all it does is block players from walling off the bottom of ramps, for zergs who get bunkered/pylon'd in
I like it..really smart way to deal with an annoying problem. i just wish it would become a standard on other maps, but we know that would never happen
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On January 27 2011 00:36 PredY wrote:
they should announce the change soon shouldn't they? since new season is coming up quickly
Yup, and I hope they do it fast, if no change to the map pool is made I'm gonna think twice before buying the next season ticket...
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I'm curious if they ever mentioned that the new maps will be in force immediately in GSL 5. I would presume that they have to delay it for another session for the players to adjust and adapt to the new map pool (since this isn't the Blizzard map pool).
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Will be announced soon(not blizzard's soon™)
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Thank you so much for keeping this updated man!
Time to test the new maps aswell
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god these maps are massive. i sincerely hope sc2 doesnt turn into whoever can macro better wins.
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WniO, I agree with you in that I hope SC2 doesn't become only 'keep your money low and just keep taking bases and you will win' and we should keep an eye out to make sure maps don't get too large. I worry that SC2 was designed entirely using the maps we currently see from blizzard, and that these considerably larger maps may have unexpected consequences.
However, I also think that generally - people enjoy larger scale games more than smaller ones, as evidenced by the many posts requesting larger maps, and the polls I've seen here on TL. I believe that strategic positioning, multitasking, well planned drops/harassment, taking advantage of all a given race's mobility (Nydus worms, and Mothership recall) rather than extremely difficult to stop all-in one to two base timing pushes will become much more the norm due to larger maps because of a greater 'defenders advantage'. Surprise will become less of a factor due to rush distances granting a lot more reaction time, and the oft difficult to take but necessary third base for Zerg will become much easier to take.
We'll have to wait and see . I for one am certainly excited to see so many new maps simply for sheer variety, and can't wait to buy next month's ticket!
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On January 24 2011 22:02 Xeph wrote:NEW Candidate Map. Merry-Go-Round(custom, 회전목마, KR available) by winpark
Looks nice, hopefully it will be in the NA server soon
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Just watched a long macro TvZ on Crevasse...was awesome. Definitely reminiscent of BW.
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hmm I sent SCC-Faust merrry-go-round and some updated maps 2-3 days ago 
I guess hes busy with sth else. So you will have to wait a little more I guess 
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Ok, so by now they should be announcing something, as the january season is coming to an end.
Does someone have information if these maps are going to be implemented this season, or if something has been said at the korean community?
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On January 29 2011 06:40 Nage wrote:
Ok, so by now they should be announcing something, as the january season is coming to an end.
Does someone have information if these maps are going to be implemented this season, or if something has been said at the korean community?
I thought there was a thread that announced like 3 new maps that will replace the old ones. For some reason I cannot find that thread and I'm still trying to find out if I was reading something wrong or something.
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On January 30 2011 08:50 Pokemonxoxo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 06:40 Nage wrote:
Ok, so by now they should be announcing something, as the january season is coming to an end.
Does someone have information if these maps are going to be implemented this season, or if something has been said at the korean community? I thought there was a thread that announced like 3 new maps that will replace the old ones. For some reason I cannot find that thread and I'm still trying to find out if I was reading something wrong or something.
Sounds like this thread, read the first post.
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On January 27 2011 04:08 Zelniq wrote:
yeah. it's a lowered neutral supply depot, so basically all it does is block players from walling off the bottom of ramps, for zergs who get bunkered/pylon'd in
I like it..really smart way to deal with an annoying problem. i just wish it would become a standard on other maps, but we know that would never happen
Indeed, it's just a clever way of fixing a problem Blizz seemingly couldn't get rid off even if their lives depended on it.
It really takes care of this stupid wall-off without destroying the mechanics/building grid in any way. Pure genius.
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I can't wait to see some action on this! Merry-go-round looks so sick! I love to see live-innovation. Strategies that no one has ever seen before on maps nobody has ever played on before.
I really wish there was a second-ladder where Blizzard would incorporate some fan-favourite maps onto the list and have a constant change in maps every few weeks or so. Just to keep people on their toes and learning new sorts of strategies.
For the record, I really miss Kulas Ravine... I don't know why Blistering Sands and Scrap Station stayed while that got taken out. The game isn't even the same as it use to be anymore.
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On January 10 2011 07:59 wessie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:52 brutality wrote:
Crossfire is a horrible map for Zerg against toss. There are really only two place to attack the toss and that's at both nats bc the middle of the map consists of norrow ground. No place to get a surround or good concave Nope. It looks way better when u play the map instead just look at it. There are plenty of good concaves u can make. I love the map and Im Zerg. Definitely better map than both Delta or Steppes.
you're assuming i haven't played it multiple times??? i mean it is a csl map...if a zerg engages in the middle of the map at all they're gonna get rolled. just b/c YOU like it doesn't mean anything. wouldn't it be the day when idra comes out and says he loves steppes of war. doesn't change the fact that it's a horrible map for zerg
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/2/2c/Crossfire.jpg/405px-Crossfire.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://pds21.egloos.com/pds/201101/13/51/b0038651_4d2df8a27413b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WoWfk.jpg)
