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Update 21th of December
Code A is now Bo3 untill the finals which is a bo7. Hooray!
Update 20th of December
All matches below are confirmed by GOM (thx to GTR)
Update 18th of December
7 GSL S League and A league :D SO MUCH STARCRAFT!
2011 GSL Tour
Code S : 32 players ranked from 1~32
Code A : 32 players ranked from 33~64(4 recommended foreign players will be seeded, mainly winners of other worldwide tournaments)
Code B : 172 players that are not in Code S or Code A and are the top ranked players from the Diamond League in the Korean Battle.net server. (Foreign players can always compete in the Preliminary Rounds for Code A disregarding their ladder point.)
Interaction between Code A and Code S : Up and Down matches
Interaction between Code B and Code A : Preliminary Rounds for Code A
Point Ranking
- Every players start at 0 from the start of 2011.
- Points are given to players after each tournament depending on each players results
- Points are accumulated as the years go by, but for Blizzard Cup and World Championship only the points from that year are applied.
Leagues of 2011 GSL Tour
1. GSL Sponsorship League
2. Super Tournament
3. World Championship
4. GSTL(tentative name)
5. Blizzard Cup
1) GSL Sponsorship League (7 tournaments a year)
Code S
- Ro32 ~ Ro16 Group League
- The 32 highest ranking players of 2010 will be divided into 8 groups of 4.
- The players in each group will play one another and the 1st and 2nd place players will advance to Ro16. (The 3rd and 4th player will have to play in the ‘Up and Down Match’.)
- Ro8 ~ Finals Tournament (Ro8 : best of 3, Semifinals : best of 5, Finals : best of 7)
- One group will play each day.
- Players who advance to Ro16 will remain in Code S.
- The 16 players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to play in the ‘Up and Down Match’
- The group will be determined by a public lottery which will be held on the following Monday of each GSL Sponsorship League.
Code A
- Ro32 Full Tournament
- Ro32 ~Semifinals : Best of 3, Finals : Best of 7
- 4 recommended foreign players will be seeded(Mainly winners of other worldwide tournaments)
- If there are no recommended foreign players, more players will be brought in through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
- Players who advance to Ro8 will play in the ‘Up and Down Match’
- Players who advance to Ro16 will remain in Code A.
- Players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to go through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
Code B
- 172 players that are not in Code S or Code A and are the top ranked players from the Diamond League in the Korean Battle.net server. (Foreign players can always compete in the Preliminary Rounds for Code A disregarding their ladder point.)
- They will play in the Preliminary rounds for Code A.
Up and Down Matches
- Bottom 16 players from Code S and the top 8 players from Code A will compete.
- There will be 8 groups of 3. (2 Code S players and 1 Code A players per group.)
- Champion and the runner-up of the Code A tournament gets to pick their group, the rest of the groups will be randomly selected.
- The 3rd place player from the group league of Code S will play the Code A player in a best of 3 matches. (Winner will be in Code S.)
- The loser of the match will play the 4th place player from the group league of Code S in a best of 3 matches.
- So if you are the 4th place player of each group from the group league of Code S, you only have one opportunity to remain in Code S.
Preliminary Rounds for Code A
- Bottom 16 players of Code A, 172 players from Code B and 4 recommended foreign players will compete. (192 players tournament)
- The top 12 players from the tournament will compete in the following Code A tournament.
- Registration for the Preliminary Rounds for Code A will start a week before each Preliminary Rounds.
2) Super Tournament (1 tournament a year in May)
- Ro64 Full Tournament (Code S 32 + Code A 32)
- Only tournament of the year when all the players from Code S and A compete against each other.
- Same format as the GSL Pre-Season Tournaments.
- Ro64 ~ Ro16 : best of 3, Ro8 ~ Semifinals : best of 5, Finals : best of 7
3) World Championship (1 tournament a year in September) – Invitational
- We invite the best players from all around the world to compete in a Ro16 tournament.
- 2 players from North America, 2 from Europe, 2 from Taiwan, 2 from China and 8 players from Korea will compete.
- The Korean players will be the top 8 players of the point ranking accumulated up to that month.
4) GSTL (Global SC II Team League) - tentative name
- 8 teams will participate in the tournament
- 8 teams will be selected by the added points of their team members in Code S and Code A.
- Two teams will match up and two players from each team will play against each other one by one and the winner will continue playing while the loser gets replaced.
- Ro8 ~ Semifinals : first to reach 3 wins, Finals, first to reach 5 wins
5) Blizzard Cup (1 tournament a year in December) – Invitational
- The top 10 players of the point ranking of that year will play in a play-off type tournament.
- Day 1 : 10th place vs. 9th place, Day 2 : Winner vs. 8th place and so on.
- There will be 1 best of 7 matches a day
Prize money
Code S
Ro32(16 players) : 1,500,000won each
Ro16(8 players) : 2,000,000won each
Ro8(4 players) : 3,000,000won each
Semifinals(2 players) : 5,000,000won each
Runner-up : 20,000,000won
Champion : 50,000,000won
Code A
Ro32(16 players) : 200,000won each
Ro16(8 players) : 400,000won each
Ro8(4 players) : 600,000won each
Semifinals(2 players) : 800,000won each
Runner-up : 1,000,000won
Champion : 1,500,000won
Super Tournament
Ro32(16 players) : 1,000,000won each
Ro16(8 players) : 2,000,000won each
Ro8(4 players) : 5,000,000won each
Semifinals(2 players) : 10,000,000won each
Runner-up : 30,000,000won
Champion : 100,000,000won
World Championship
Ro16(8 players) : 3,000,000won each
Ro8(4 players) : 5,000,000won each
Semifinals(2 players) : 10,000,000won each
Runner-up : 15,000,000won
Champion : 30,000,000won
GSTL
Second Place : 5,000,000won
First Place : 10,000,000won
Blizzard Cup
10th place : 1,500,000won
9th place : 3,000,000won
8th place : 5,000,000won
7th place : 7,000,000won
6th place : 9,000,000won
5th place : 12,000,000won
4th place : 15,000,000won
3rd place : 20,000,000won
Runner-up : 30,000,000won
Champion : 50,000,000won
Update 16th of December
Also from the GOM forums Antoine had been asking questions on the GOM forums in which Junkka has replied to (thx Antoine <3) so I was able to read up to date.
What I've read so far from the forums is that the format for Groupstage in Code S is as followed:
Player A = Ranked 1-8
Player B and D = Ranked 17-32
Player C = Ranked 9-16
Match 1 Player A vs Player B
Match 2 Player C vs Player D
After Playday 1 the second playday will look like:
Winner M1 vs Loser M2
Winner M2 vs Loser M1
Playday 3 has 3 scenario's as GOM has posted it.
If after 2 Playdays there are 2 players who has won 2 games then they proceed to Ro16 but they will still play eachother in playday 3 to determine group rankings. So it will be a full round robin in thise case.
If only 1 player has won 2 games and 2 players are at 1-1 then the players with 1-1 will proceed to play again in playday 3 making it an effective Bo3.
The player that loses the first 2 games is automatically 4th and is demoted to Up and Down matches for Code S next Season and does not need to play according to the explainations in the first original post.
Third scenario is if there are all 4 players who are 1-1 then the remaining matches will be played against eachother who hasn't faced eachother making it a normal round robin group again.
Basically this implies to fairness and that it is difficult to rig a match if you have 3 players of the same team in 1 group as it makes it very hard to rig it in such way that you can get 2 members through.
Original post
As the title says the format has been determined and has been released by GOM.
For those who was up to date with the GSL news then you know the major stuff.
This time GOM has released all details regarding both leagues.
For Code S:
Hello everyone, Yesterday the Code S players were divided into 8 groups of 4 by the group drawing. Now We will explain how the group league works. The 8 groups of Code S players will play in a ‘GOMtv League’ format. The ‘GOMtv League’ format can be defined as Full Group League + Double Elimination Format. 1. The ‘GOMtv League’ format consists of 3 Turns. 2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified. 3. If it is not determined up to Turn 2 the qualifiers and disqualifiers with the rank of the group is determined in Turn 3. 4. This allows every player to play one another so that we can have diverse matches and also makes the matches more competitive because you are disqualified with 2 loses. So it is a mixture of the Full Group League and the Double Elimination Format. This is how each group is composed. Code S has 8 groups of 4 players. A B C D Rank 1~8 players from the previous tournament are each positioned in A by the group drawing. Rank 9~16 players are each positioned in C by the group drawing. Rank 17~32 players are positioned in B & D of each group by the group drawing. The match up always start as A vs. B and C vs. D. The biggest point in this format is that in the group of 4 players, you have to win against at least 2 players to advance. It is different from a full league because there will be no tie breakers and every match will be a rank deciding match which will improve the player’s performance. In typical group leagues, matches between players who are confirmed to be disqualified tend to be boring to watch. However the rank matters in the ‘GOMtv League’ format because the 4th player will only get one chance to remain in Code S through the ‘Up and Down Matches’ while the 3rd player gets two chances. Here is an example of how the 'GOMtv League' works. There is 4 players(A, B, C, D) in a group. Turn 1 : A vs. B, C vs. D * Let’s assume that players A and C wins. Turn 2 : A(1W) vs. D(1L), B(1L) vs. C(1W) * From here there 3 types of scenario can occur. Case 1. Winners continue to win A(2W), D(2L), B(2L), C(2W) -> A, C advances to Ro16 / B, D drops to the ‘Up and Down Matches’. The rank from 1 to 4 will be decided after the match ups in turn 3. A vs. C , B vs. D Case 2. Only 1 of the previous winners continue to win A(2W), D(2L), B(1W 1L), C(1W 1L) -> A is rank 1st of this group and D is rank 4th. Rank 2nd and 3rd will be decided after the match up in turn 3. B vs. C Case 3. Every player get 1W 1L A(1W 1L), D(1W 1L), B(1W 1L), C(1W 1L) -> Turn 3 will be A vs. C, B vs. D. The winners of these match ups will advance into Ro16. Two players will be tied at 2W 1L and the other two at 1W 2L. So the rank from 1 to 4 will be decided by the record of who won the match up between the tied players. Code S group list : http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/292
For Code A
Code A
- Ro32 Full Tournament
- Ro32 ~ Ro16 : Single Game, Ro8 ~ Semifinals : Best of 3, Finals : Best of 7
- 4 recommended foreign players will be seeded(Mainly winners of other worldwide tournaments)
- If there are no recommended foreign players, more players will be brought in through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
- Players who advance to Ro8 will play in the ‘Up and Down Match’
- Players who advance to Ro16 will remain in Code A.
- Players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to go through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
For Up and Down matches
Up and Down Matches
- Bottom 16 players from Code S and the top 8 players from Code A will compete.
- There will be 8 groups of 3. (2 Code S players and 1 Code A players per group.)
- Champion and the runner-up of the Code A tournament gets to pick their group, the rest of the groups will be randomly selected.
- The 3rd place player from the group league of Code S will play the Code A player in a best of 3 matches. (Winner will be in Code S.)
- The loser of the match will play the 4th place player from the group league of Code S in a best of 3 matches.
- So if you are the 4th place player of each group from the group league of Code S, you only have one opportunity to remain in Code S.
Anyone excited ?
Groupstage Day 1
Group A
 IMNesTea vs  PoltPrime.WE
MakaPrime.WE vs TheBestfOu
Group B
TSL_FruitDealer vs IMmvp
oGsZenio vs oGsJookTo
Group C
 HongUnPrime.WE vs oGsTheWinD
SlayerSBoxeR vs oGsHyperdub
Group D
TSL_Rain vs ChoyafOu
KyrixZenith vs TSL_sSKS
Group E
ST_RainBOw vs LeenockfOu
NsP_Genius vs anyproPrime.WE
Group F
oGsMC vs oGsNada
oGsInCa vs SanZenith
Group G
MarineKingPrime.WE vs TSL_Clide
NEXLiveForever vs LegalMind
Group H
oGsEnsnare vs CheckPrime.WE
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro vs EGIdrA!!!
Format for groupstage 1 in Code S is as followed.
Playday 1
Match1 Player A vs Player B
Match2 Player C vs Player D
Playday 2
Match3 Winner M1 vs Loser M2
Match4 Winner M2 vs Loser M1
Playday 3
Depends on circumstances but these are the scenario's.
If after 2 Playdays there are 2 players who has won 2 games then they proceed to Ro16 but they will still play eachother in playday 3 to determine group rankings. So it will be a full round robin in thise case.
If only 1 player has won 2 games and 2 players are at 1-1 then the players with 1-1 will proceed to play again in playday 3 making it an effective Bo3.
The player that loses the first 2 games is automatically 4th and is demoted to Up and Down matches for Code S next Season and does not need to play according to the explainations in the first original post.
Third scenario is if there are all 4 players who are 1-1 then the remaining matches will be played against eachother who hasn't faced eachother making it a normal round robin group again.
Source for S league
Source for S, A and Up and Down matches
GSL S code groups
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Seriously? Recommended foreigners get a free pass into code A? BAD ASS! GO GO TLO!
Also Jinro vs Idra?
O M G best thing ever
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United States7481 Posts
hmmmm part of this doesn't make sense to me.
"2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified."
take the following schedule of matches and results
+ Show Spoiler +
If you take the records after the 2nd turn, D would be eliminated because he's 0-2. However if you take the results after turn 3, there are 3 1-2 players. The only way it's fair is if they schedule the matches like the MSL Survivor format of starting matches -> winners/losers game -> final match, so the 2nd turn would be a vs c and b vs d from my example.
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Worried that idra won't get enough practice though.
hope he shows some good games.
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On December 16 2010 01:37 Antoine wrote:hmmmm part of this doesn't make sense to me. "2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified." take the following schedule of matches and results + Show Spoiler +If you take the records after the 2nd turn, D would be eliminated because he's 0-2. However if you take the results after turn 3, there are 3 1-2 players. The only way it's fair is if they schedule the matches like the MSL Survivor format of starting matches -> winners/losers game -> final match, so the 2nd turn would be a vs c and b vs d from my example.
Gom will decide it then. I must say that it would be best to have it like MSL but maybe GOM will change the format to MSL. Hard to type on an iPad.
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Code A ro32 - ro16 to be a bo1 match?? That's an especially brutal way to lose code A (if they lose the ro32) or lose the chance to fight for code S (if they lose the ro16)?? Why not make it bo3?
Also, quarters and semis to be bo3 but finals bo7?? Seems a bit nonsensical to me. There is a very marginal difference between first and second, but a bigger one between second and third. Why not make the finals just a bo5??
GOM put a lot of thought into the code S tournament and the code S determination matches but the code A one seems like an afterthought.
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On December 16 2010 02:00 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 01:37 Antoine wrote:hmmmm part of this doesn't make sense to me. "2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified." take the following schedule of matches and results + Show Spoiler +If you take the records after the 2nd turn, D would be eliminated because he's 0-2. However if you take the results after turn 3, there are 3 1-2 players. The only way it's fair is if they schedule the matches like the MSL Survivor format of starting matches -> winners/losers game -> final match, so the 2nd turn would be a vs c and b vs d from my example. Gom will decide it then. I must say that it would be best to have it like MSL but maybe GOM will change the format to MSL. Hard to type on an iPad.
A would qualify after 2 wins, so theres no chance for A to get a third win
a>b c>d a>d
A qualifies
D is eliminated
c is 1-0, b is 0-1, but b=c still because if b>c they are both 1-1 and b > c in the match so b qualifies
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Code A ro32 - ro16 to be a bo1 match?? That's an especially brutal way to lose code A (if they lose the ro32) or lose the chance to fight for code S (if they lose the ro16)?? Why not make it bo3?
I would say that code A is more like a second chance than anything, the real objective is getting the code S. I feel fine with how code A is set up. Lets hope that all of this is to be taking place during the week between the semi s and the finals. a week with no games is pretty lame.
Thanks for the thought, Adun.
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United States7481 Posts
On December 16 2010 02:39 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 02:00 shannn wrote:On December 16 2010 01:37 Antoine wrote:hmmmm part of this doesn't make sense to me. "2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified." take the following schedule of matches and results + Show Spoiler +If you take the records after the 2nd turn, D would be eliminated because he's 0-2. However if you take the results after turn 3, there are 3 1-2 players. The only way it's fair is if they schedule the matches like the MSL Survivor format of starting matches -> winners/losers game -> final match, so the 2nd turn would be a vs c and b vs d from my example. Gom will decide it then. I must say that it would be best to have it like MSL but maybe GOM will change the format to MSL. Hard to type on an iPad. A would qualify after 2 wins, so theres no chance for A to get a third win a>b c>d a>d A qualifies D is eliminated c is 1-0, b is 0-1, but b=c still because if b>c they are both 1-1 and b > c in the match so b qualifies
This is what you'd think based off what it says, but that goes against everything a round-robin group stage is set up for. Also on the gom forum at http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/294 , it says "Turn 1 : A vs. B, C vs. D
* Let’s assume that players A and C wins.
Turn 2 : A(1W) vs. D(1L), B(1L) vs. C(1W)
* From here there 3 types of scenario can occur.
Case 2. Only 1 of the previous winners continue to win
A(2W), D(2L), B(1W 1L), C(1W 1L)
-> A is rank 1st of this group and D is rank 4th. Rank 2nd and 3rd will be decided after the match up in turn 3. B vs. C"
While B and C just played in turn 2...
I'm not sure they thought this all the way through.
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On December 16 2010 02:39 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 02:00 shannn wrote:On December 16 2010 01:37 Antoine wrote:hmmmm part of this doesn't make sense to me. "2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified." take the following schedule of matches and results + Show Spoiler +If you take the records after the 2nd turn, D would be eliminated because he's 0-2. However if you take the results after turn 3, there are 3 1-2 players. The only way it's fair is if they schedule the matches like the MSL Survivor format of starting matches -> winners/losers game -> final match, so the 2nd turn would be a vs c and b vs d from my example. Gom will decide it then. I must say that it would be best to have it like MSL but maybe GOM will change the format to MSL. Hard to type on an iPad. A would qualify after 2 wins, so theres no chance for A to get a third win a>b c>d a>d A qualifies D is eliminated c is 1-0, b is 0-1, but b=c still because if b>c they are both 1-1 and b > c in the match so b qualifies
Ah yea now that you explained it I understand. So it doesn't really matter now. This means if u win 2 matches there is no need to win a 3rd then it would explain it all right?
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- 4 recommended foreign players will be seeded(Mainly winners of other worldwide tournaments)
Thats sweet Yeah!
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United States7481 Posts
2 wins also shouldn't be an auto-qualifier. Imagine this:
A>B, C>D
A>D, B>C
at this point A has 2 wins so under the system he'd auto-qualify. But what if the 3rd turn of the round robin goes like this?
C>A, B>D
Then there are 3 players with a 2-1 record.
my point is that in round-robin group play, players shouldn't be qualified or disqualified based on the order in which the matches are played
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On December 16 2010 02:47 Antoine wrote:
2 wins also shouldn't be an auto-qualifier. Imagine this:
A>B, C>D
A>D, B>C
at this point A has 2 wins so under the system he'd auto-qualify. But what if the 3rd turn of the round robin goes like this?
C>A, B>D
Then there are 3 players with a 2-1 record.
my point is that in round-robin group play, players shouldn't be qualified or disqualified based on the order in which the matches are played
It seems you're right that you're going to be qualified/disqualified based on match order.
The order that is determined by their GSL point rating standings.
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On December 16 2010 02:42 Liquid_Adun wrote:Show nested quote +Code A ro32 - ro16 to be a bo1 match?? That's an especially brutal way to lose code A (if they lose the ro32) or lose the chance to fight for code S (if they lose the ro16)?? Why not make it bo3? I would say that code A is more like a second chance than anything, the real objective is getting the code S. I feel fine with how code A is set up. Lets hope that all of this is to be taking place during the week between the semi s and the finals. a week with no games is pretty lame. Thanks for the thought, Adun.
I thought code A is more than just a second chance. There will be players who have fought hard in the qualifiers and finally got to code A aiming for S. They then could lose their code A status in their very first match to cheese?
Even the GSL1 - GSL3 qualifiers were bo3 matches...?
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Think about this - for one of their invited foreigners, you have to win two BO1s to get into an up/down match, then one out of two BO3s to get into Code S.
This makes it easier to get Code S now than it was just to qualify for a GSL in seasons 1 to 3.
Okay, sure, you have to have won some kind of big tournament, which is a different story. But still, compared to the amount of work Idra, Jinro, and Ret put in to make it into next season, it seems just a little questionable.
On the other hand, yay more foreigners in GSL!
On December 16 2010 02:47 Antoine wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
2 wins also shouldn't be an auto-qualifier. Imagine this:
A>B, C>D
A>D, B>C
at this point A has 2 wins so under the system he'd auto-qualify. But what if the 3rd turn of the round robin goes like this?
C>A, B>D
Then there are 3 players with a 2-1 record.
my point is that in round-robin group play, players shouldn't be qualified or disqualified based on the order in which the matches are played
From reading the excerpts in the OP, it seems like GOM is doing it this way because they don't want to have any tiebreakers ever. I'm not sure why they feel that way, though. Maybe scheduling? They want to always know exactly how many rounds they'll have?
Another effect of this system is that it gives a slight advantage to the higher-seeded players in the group - if they beat the lower-seeded players, they don't have to play each other. So that cold be another part of the reason for doing it this way. It is weird though.
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GOM put a lot of thought into the code S tournament and the code S determination matches but the code A one seems like an afterthought.
Because Code A is sorta an afterthought but more importantly I think setup to allow players to move in and out and almost be intentionally volatile.
I like the format, the pressure is on, win your games. I'm not one of the people that only want to see long drawn out best of 3 and 5 macro series. I have always been a fan of the 1 game, all on the line, lose you have to requalify for code A/you are eliminated. It can sucked to get knocked out on a cheese play or something but that's just how it goes. Going to make for some great drama, I think it will help foster rivalries which SC2 really needs, and I think it just adds to the excitement personally.
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I don't understand why they use BO1. I don't think it is a good measurement of skill, and I predict that we will see tons of upsets. Why can't you make them BO3? Is it a matter of time? Does anybody know what the Korean community thinks about this? Maybe there's some kind of petition or something. Cause honestly, I think this is quite bad.
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The format is great considering there won't be any "lame duck" matches in which players know there is no advantage to winning. Gomtv has done well to make sure that every match will be competitive and mean something. My only concern is that in the code A tournament, until the round of 8, it is single game elimination style, and we could see a lot of cheese like we did in dreamhack. I think most people would agree that this is not fun to watch.
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Awesome we get to see boxer tvt more. Just what we wanted...
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Netherlands4511 Posts
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
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Canada5565 Posts
NaDa vs. MC 
So for the 4 foreigner spots. Right now Ret is in code A, but there are 4 additional slots open for people? As in, there are 4 slots no matter how many foreigners legitimately qualify?
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The main problem, from a view's perspective, is that best of 1 doesnt support creative play. Player will tend to play standard, or if they feel they are the underdog do some cheese. I highly doubt that we will see a mothership rush TBH. or some carriers.
Tell me what you think, Adun
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Idra is totally licking his chops for this bracket. Ensare prefer's macro games. Check prime doesn't have the macro Idra does, and I think Idra vews himself as a better player than Jinro (no offense love Jinro) He uses tanks!!!!!
Jinro is the dark horse of the division. I love it. I think the most interesting matchup is Jinro vs Idra.
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On December 16 2010 03:09 Xxio wrote:NaDa vs. MC So for the 4 foreigner spots. Right now Ret is in code A, but there are 4 additional slots open for people? As in, there are 4 slots no matter how many foreigners legitimately qualify?
Yes. If let's say out of the 12 open spots in which u can directly qualify and 6 foreigners qualify. Then the 4 invited ones make it to 10 foreigner qualified players then.
Edit:
Atleast from my comprehension. If a Korean wins a foreign major tournament I don't know how that would end up then if he gets auto invite.
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Is there a start date scheduled for this? I really don't get this championship. Will it replace the "normal" gsl where you have to qualify through the games and only the people in code A/S will participate?
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Pretty intense lineups for Day 1, has there been a mention of when the date is?
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On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
Yeah single game is bo1 unless someone can prove me wrong 
So it's win your 1st game and you're atleast Code A next season or win your 2nd and you can qualify for Code S next Season.
On December 16 2010 03:19 dambros wrote:
Is there a start date scheduled for this? I really don't get this championship. Will it replace the "normal" gsl where you have to qualify through the games and only the people in code A/S will participate?
Yes it will replace the normal GSL. The normal GSL that is running now is called a GSL Open.
On December 16 2010 03:19 PartyBiscuit wrote:
Pretty intense lineups for Day 1, has there been a mention of when the date is?
I can't find it anywhere else I'll update it in OP.
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On December 16 2010 03:02 Zidon wrote:
The format is great considering there won't be any "lame duck" matches in which players know there is no advantage to winning. Gomtv has done well to make sure that every match will be competitive and mean something. My only concern is that in the code A tournament, until the round of 8, it is single game elimination style, and we could see a lot of cheese like we did in dreamhack. I think most people would agree that this is not fun to watch.
I thought the way they avoided "lame-duck" matches was by giving the 3rd placed finisher an advantage over the 4th place in the code S determination match. Their code S group stage is a bit bizarre to me. At least they've made every match mean something and will avoid tie-breaks. But if they really hate tie-breaks maybe don't televise it??
EDIT: Ok, so I thought a little about it, and I don't really mind their group stage "double elimination" format. Theoretically, it's possible that 3 people in the grp have 2 wins in a full round robin but that "theoretical last match" is never played so I don't mind it too much... I still prefer a full round-robin though
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On December 16 2010 03:20 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:19 dambros wrote:
Is there a start date scheduled for this? I really don't get this championship. Will it replace the "normal" gsl where you have to qualify through the games and only the people in code A/S will participate? Yes it will replace the normal GSL. The normal GSL that is running now is called a GSL Open.
So, how can someone qualify for the tournament if he isn't code A?
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On December 16 2010 03:25 dambros wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:20 shannn wrote:On December 16 2010 03:19 dambros wrote:
Is there a start date scheduled for this? I really don't get this championship. Will it replace the "normal" gsl where you have to qualify through the games and only the people in code A/S will participate? Yes it will replace the normal GSL. The normal GSL that is running now is called a GSL Open. So, how can someone qualify for the tournament if he isn't code A?
There will be a qualifier for code A but there has been no details released for this afaik.
What we do know is that GOM said that 4 spots will be kept open to foreigners (not sure if it's foreigners or players) who win a major foreign tournament and the qualifier will be held for 12 code A spots.
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On December 16 2010 03:29 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:25 dambros wrote:On December 16 2010 03:20 shannn wrote:On December 16 2010 03:19 dambros wrote:
Is there a start date scheduled for this? I really don't get this championship. Will it replace the "normal" gsl where you have to qualify through the games and only the people in code A/S will participate? Yes it will replace the normal GSL. The normal GSL that is running now is called a GSL Open. So, how can someone qualify for the tournament if he isn't code A? There will be a qualifier for code A but there has been no details released for this afaik. What we do know is that GOM said that 4 spots will be kept open to foreigners (not sure if it's foreigners or players) who win a major foreign tournament and the qualifier will be held for 12 code A spots.
Nice, Thanks for the explanation. This way we will have at least 12(+4 if add the foreign spot) new faces every tournament. I was afraid this would became a close pack and all the same faces over and over again.
Not that it is a bad thing (bw for example), but the game is too young for this kind of thing.
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So, how can someone qualify for the tournament if he isn't code A?
Players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to go through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
So I imagine before the Code A starts there will be some sort of open/invite prelims similar to what went on for the GSL open we have now where you can get one of these "open" last 16 Code A slots then go from there. There were also mentions of a ladder tournament, foreign invites, etc. Seems they will use various measures to get players into the Code A bracket for the final 16 spots, and be actively looking for talent to invite.
Will be fun to watch a lesser known player storm their way into Code A, maybe go through it and work their way up through Code S. Really going to allow you to follow and root for players as they climb up/down etc.
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Really? a Code A BO1? This is just stupid, sorry but a professional gaming host would have enough brains to not do this. This is stupid.. i think i kind of need an explanation if anyone thinks this is ok.
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my point is that in round-robin group play, players shouldn't be qualified or disqualified based on the order in which the matches are played
The reason they are doing it this way is to give more of an advantage to the seeded players from the previous tourny. They play the weaker members first, and so have the chance to get the wins needed.
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On December 16 2010 03:37 AmaZing wrote:
Really? a Code A BO1? This is just stupid, sorry but a professional gaming host would have enough brains to not do this. This is stupid.. i think i kind of need an explanation if anyone thinks this is ok.
Maybe it's because they also want to air the Code A matches. And in another thread (link) I calculated that in the S League there will be a total of 90-101 games in just the S League.
With A league it will be even more.
A league is according to my calculation like this.
Ro32
16 matches x bo1
Ro16
8 matches x bo1
Ro8
4 matches x bo3 = 8-12 games
Ro4
2 matches x bo3 = 4-6 games
Ro2
1 match x bo7 = 4-7 games
This comes down to 40-49 additional games along with the 90-101 games in S league.
That's 130-150 games in 1 month in which they'll air the games around prime time I guess?
GSL Open has 144-221 games casted over the course of 3 weeks I think?
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On December 16 2010 02:10 Azzur wrote:
Code A ro32 - ro16 to be a bo1 match?? That's an especially brutal way to lose code A (if they lose the ro32) or lose the chance to fight for code S (if they lose the ro16)?? Why not make it bo3?
Also, quarters and semis to be bo3 but finals bo7?? Seems a bit nonsensical to me. There is a very marginal difference between first and second, but a bigger one between second and third. Why not make the finals just a bo5??
GOM put a lot of thought into the code S tournament and the code S determination matches but the code A one seems like an afterthought.
Code A tournaments are probably also going to have cash prizes for winners so a Bo7 final is warranted
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On December 16 2010 03:56 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 02:10 Azzur wrote:
Code A ro32 - ro16 to be a bo1 match?? That's an especially brutal way to lose code A (if they lose the ro32) or lose the chance to fight for code S (if they lose the ro16)?? Why not make it bo3?
Also, quarters and semis to be bo3 but finals bo7?? Seems a bit nonsensical to me. There is a very marginal difference between first and second, but a bigger one between second and third. Why not make the finals just a bo5??
GOM put a lot of thought into the code S tournament and the code S determination matches but the code A one seems like an afterthought. Code A tournaments are probably also going to have cash prizes for winners so a Bo7 final is warranted
I wouldn't mind a bo7 final if it was a bit more consistent throughout the whole tournament. We had the semis as a bo3 then suddenly the finals is bo7.
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*Assuming this group stuff relates only to the group stuff of the main tournament with Code S players, for a total of 32 players. And the top 2 placers of this group go onto round 2 group and then round 3 single elim bracket.
With the group stuff of abcd.
A is one of the top 8 players from the previous season. Who earned another Code S.
C is one of the top 16 players from the previous season. Who earned another Code S.
B and D are previous Code S or Code A players who managed to win the "up and down" matches and get a spot in the "next" main tournament (aka this group play).
I'm assuming the reason that they get put in named slots is so that they can write up the order of the matches beforehand and set it in stone forever.
So turn 1: the A vs B and C vs D. Is to separate the people that have done well in the previous seasons.
Turn 2: A vs D and C vs B. Notice they swapped the positions of the "lower" ranked players B and D. Meaning A and C cannot get matched up. As to protect previous high finishers from playing eachother in the group play. And knocking them out. Possibly because you could argue that if one of the "stronger" players gets eliminated by an even "stronger" player. That spot will be taken by a "weaker" player and they want to keep it high level, or give them some sort of advantage.
With these matchups, looking at it from players B and D who come from the, up and down matches, code A, first round knock out Code S from the previous season. As a test to "check" if these players are "worthy" of playing in main stable part of the Code S play. (not written well but I mean: The previous ro16+ Code S players have proven themselves to be "up to par" they can hang, they belong if you will.) Placing them against the people who most obviously belong in the Code S tournament, and represent the Code S skill level (by cliching another Code S based on the previous tournament results). Is arguably the best way to see who of these two "groups" belongs and should get the default Code S for the next season. (Because advancing through the group play here ensures you get the Code S from the ro16)
To summarize my main points:
- Code S clinchers from previous season (ro16+) don't play eachother, gains stability, clinching Code S more valuable because you get "weaker" opponents the next time around. And it allows the second point.
- it's a great test for the more indeterment players to see which of all 4 belong and who don't.
Don't like the Bo1 for the Code A tournament of course. Rather have it not get broadcasted or only a select part, and just be Bo3. (Assuming it's not bo3 because of time, because of broadcasting desires)
Hope this made some sense and I was atleast able to highlight some intresting things if I'm not mistaken. Thanks for reading.
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On December 16 2010 04:04 legatus legionis wrote:
*Assuming this group stuff relates only to the group stuff of the main tournament with Code S players, for a total of 32 players. And the top 2 placers of this group go onto round 2 group and then round 3 single elim bracket.
With the group stuff of abcd.
A is one of the top 8 players from the previous season. Who earned another Code S.
C is one of the top 16 players from the previous season. Who earned another Code S.
B and D are previous Code S or Code A players who managed to win the "up and down" matches and get a spot in the "next" main tournament (aka this group play).
I'm assuming the reason that they get put in named slots is so that they can write up the order of the matches beforehand and set it in stone forever.
So turn 1: the A vs B and C vs D. Is to separate the people that have done well in the previous seasons.
Turn 2: A vs D and C vs B. Notice they swapped the positions of the "lower" ranked players B and D. Meaning A and C cannot get matched up. As to protect previous high finishers from playing eachother in the group play. And knocking them out. Possibly because you could argue that if one of the "stronger" players gets eliminated by an even "stronger" player. That spot will be taken by a "weaker" player and they want to keep it high level, or give them some sort of advantage.
With these matchups, looking at it from players B and D who come from the, up and down matches, code A, first round knock out Code S from the previous season. As a test to "check" if these players are "worthy" of playing in main stable part of the Code S play. (not written well but I mean: The previous ro16+ Code S players have proven themselves to be "up to par" they can hang, they belong if you will.) Placing them against the people who most obviously belong in the Code S tournament, and represent the Code S skill level (by cliching another Code S based on the previous tournament results). Is arguably the best way to see who of these two "groups" belongs and should get the default Code S for the next season. (Because advancing through the group play here ensures you get the Code S from the ro16)
To summarize my main points:
- Code S clinchers from previous season (ro16+) don't play eachother, gains stability, clinching Code S more valuable because you get "weaker" opponents the next time around. And it allows the second point.
- it's a great test for the more indeterment players to see which of all 4 belong and who don't.
Don't like the Bo1 for the Code A tournament of course. Rather have it not get broadcasted or only a select part, and just be Bo3. (Assuming it's not bo3 because of time, because of broadcasting desires)
Hope this made some sense and I was atleast able to highlight some intresting things if I'm not mistaken. Thanks for reading.
Very thorough explaination man.
This does seem to be the case as you explained it. But I hope Junkka can clarify if this is the case. I'll add it on the OP just in case anyways for a good explaination of the group matches.
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Will they be showing this on Gom for free?
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class A is getting screwed with bo1 rounds thats just weak
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They did for today ... i hope they continue with this.
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On December 16 2010 04:24 ditkaordie wrote:
class A is getting screwed with bo1 rounds thats just weak
Code A has 2 rounds of Bo1.
Code S has 2 groupstages of Bo1.
Ridiculous? probably.
More pressure? probably.
Good for our heart? Hell no lol
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On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
ro32 and ro16 are in 4 group format so u play 3 matches that round
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On December 16 2010 04:40 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 04:24 ditkaordie wrote:
class A is getting screwed with bo1 rounds thats just weak Code A has 2 rounds of Bo1. Code S has 2 groupstages of Bo1. Ridiculous? probably. More pressure? probably. Good for our heart? Hell no lol
Not sure what's with all the best of 1s. It sounds like they need a talking to from incontrol.
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On December 16 2010 04:53 TeMiL wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous ro32 and ro16 are in 4 group format so u play 3 matches that round
It says according to GOM on their site
for Code A
Code A
- Ro32 Full Tournament
- Ro32 ~ Ro16 : Single Game, Ro8 ~ Semifinals : Best of 3, Finals : Best of 7
- 4 recommended foreign players will be seeded(Mainly winners of other worldwide tournaments)
- If there are no recommended foreign players, more players will be brought in through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
- Players who advance to Ro8 will play in the ‘Up and Down Match’
- Players who advance to Ro16 will remain in Code A.
- Players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to go through the Preliminary Rounds for Code A.
Single game means Bo1 but there is no mention of group stage unless they forgot to type that it's groupstage for ro32/ro16.
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I really hope they aren't BO1 - thats really bad.
BO3 at least - its just too volatile in a BO1
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United States60 Posts
This will make for some really good live shows. On the Code S players it will be rough if they end up in the bottom 16, but I love watching underdogs come through. It will be really neat to see which Code A players advance into Code S and which Code S players drop. Can't wait to watch these. Will this all start soon after the GSL 3 finishes or will there be a break over the holidays?
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Bo1 group stage is fine, OSL and MSL have done it for years now.
Bo1 elimination games are terrible, they should really have un-casted Bo3s instead.
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when does it starrrrrrt????
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Quick question jalstar, I haven't watched a whole lot of osl. In the group stage, is it decided after the first two sets? Or do they play out all three sets and have tiebreakers if necessary?
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On December 16 2010 05:57 hinnolinn wrote:
Quick question jalstar, I haven't watched a whole lot of osl. In the group stage, is it decided after the first two sets? Or do they play out all three sets and have tiebreakers if necessary?
The second, which is much more "accurate" but can result in some unnecessary games being played. Tiebreakers can last quite a long time as well.
MSL is shorter and never has tiebreakers but can result in rematches where players go 1-1 against each other and whoever won the last game advances. Also, it's less "accurate" as not all players play each other. Many people like the MSL system better because it adds a clearer sense of drama.
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Best of 1 should never happen on a big stage. That's just lazy.
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If they made A-Class matches also group stages, I'd be ok with that (like the tie-breakers recently), but single rounds are going to be insanely scary.
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Going 1-1 against another player and moving on would only happen if they beat someone else and the loser didn't. Its kind of like the disqualified person has a tie and a loss and the person moving on has a win and a tie.
1st-2 wins
2nd-1 win 1 tie
3rd-1 tie 1 loss
4th-2 losses
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On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
Shouldn't you know this? I mean you are Code A aren't you? Aren't you also still in Korea?
The worst thing a coach can do is not make sure a player knows the rules or how things work in the tournament.
In these 1 game matches you will see alot of safer builds against all in type of strategies.
Did Tester make Code A even? He only qualified for 1 GSL.
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Why does Gom have to make everything so complicated? Why not just do a normal round robin for the group stages? Since the difference between 3rd and 4th matters the only reason seems to be so there are no tiebreakers.
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So just for clarification..
On the code S group matches, those are BO1?
Meaning for the IMNestea vs. PoltPrime match, that's just a best of 1, and then the winner of that faces player D for example in another Best of 1, and then the players to win 2 best of 1s, advance...correct?
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Clide really is an unlucky dude
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On December 16 2010 06:42 Krallin wrote:
Clide really is an unlucky dude
Being in a group of cheesers sucks.
Clide fighting.
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On December 16 2010 06:37 purecarnagge wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous Shouldn't you know this? I mean you are Code A aren't you? Aren't you also still in Korea? The worst thing a coach can do is not make sure a player knows the rules or how things work in the tournament. In these 1 game matches you will see alot of safer builds against all in type of strategies. Did Tester make Code A even? He only qualified for 1 GSL.
Tester aka TSL.sSKS Code S in Group D
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On December 16 2010 06:25 Eko200 wrote:
Going 1-1 against another player and moving on would only happen if they beat someone else and the loser didn't. Its kind of like the disqualified person has a tie and a loss and the person moving on has a win and a tie.
1st-2 wins
2nd-1 win 1 tie
3rd-1 tie 1 loss
4th-2 losses
It would be:
Player A 2-0 (won from B and D)
Player B 1-1 (lost to A and won from C)
Player C 1-1 (won from D but lost to B)
Player D 0-2 (lost to A and C)
Turn 3 would mean that if D < B and C > A then it would look like this
Player A 2-1 (won from B and D and lost to C)
Player B 2-1 (lost to A and won from C and won from D)
Player C 2-1 (won from D but lost to B won from A)
Player D 0-3 (lost to all)
Making it a 3 way tie.
B > C > A > B etc
The question is now how will this be solved.
Since GOM are implying there are no tie breakers this would mean that turn 3 would not be
B(1-1) vs D(0-2) and A(2-0) vs C(1-1)
But another match. Antoine has asked on the gom forums but so far no reply from GOM yet.
On December 16 2010 06:37 purecarnagge wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous Shouldn't you know this? I mean you are Code A aren't you? Aren't you also still in Korea? The worst thing a coach can do is not make sure a player knows the rules or how things work in the tournament. In these 1 game matches you will see alot of safer builds against all in type of strategies. Did Tester make Code A even? He only qualified for 1 GSL.
Read the OP and look at the matches you find him there. Read first before you ask a question which was unnecessary in the first place if you looked and watched GSL (which you probably did since you are referring to GSL 1). During GSL broadcast it was mentioned numerous times that Tester changed name to sSKS 
On December 16 2010 06:41 Gudeldar wrote:
Why does Gom have to make everything so complicated? Why not just do a normal round robin for the group stages? Since the difference between 3rd and 4th matters the only reason seems to be so there are no tiebreakers.
3rd and 4th matters because they will be placed in up and down matches which you can read in the OP. It says specifically that if you are 4th in your groupstage in S league that you only have 1 chance to stay as a S code player. A third ranked player in a groupstage has 2 chances to make sure he stays code S. Hence it's so important to have a system where there is no tie breaker because of these playoffs and seedings.
On December 16 2010 06:42 Howl67 wrote:
So just for clarification..
On the code S group matches, those are BO1?
Meaning for the IMNestea vs. PoltPrime match, that's just a best of 1, and then the winner of that faces player D for example in another Best of 1, and then the players to win 2 best of 1s, advance...correct?
Group stages are Bo1 yes. It isn't really implied if the winner of 1st match faces the loser or winner from the other match in the respective groups. So I can't really make much out of it except what they mentioned that A plays vs B and C plays vs D which according to them is done by ratings.
Ranked 1-8 = A
Ranked 9-16 = C
Ranked 17-24 = B
Ranked 25-32 = D
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To avoid long tiebreakers they could have used the beta world cup system where one player randomly gets a "bye" then he faces the winner of the other 2 players and the three are ranked 1-3 from there.
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class A is getting screwed with bo1 rounds thats just weak
I guess I'm the only one who doesn't mind the BO1.
First, don't tell me it is better to have unaired BO3s instead. People would then bitch and moan about not getting to see this player or that player, so if it is a time constraint deal(which it looks like is one of the factors) much better to make sure fans of all players get to tune in and watch everyone then to not air series which I think people would also complain as much about.
But I don't understand how they are getting screwed... are they screwed because they simply aren't getting enough face time on camera? I mean they are getting an opportunity to play and win money, so just win and what does it matter, don't lose. Each player has an equal shot to win in theory(not getting into map balance on this one so don't go there). Everyone can cheese, and everyone can choose not to cheese. Don't go with a risky build if you think you'll see some early game garbage.
GOM is providing a format for the players to try to move and stay up in. Nobody is getting "screwed" if anything should be thankful there is a format which involves a lot of players, has opportunities to continue to qualify and try to earn money playing SC2.
I'd rather people just be honest, and say you don't like the BO1 because you don't get to watch as many matches and you are worried your personal favorite player might go out in one game. At least I can respect that, stop acting like you feel bad for the players or they are getting "screwed over." The only way players are getting screwed is if they don't know the rules going in. If they know going in that this is the deal, then you know. One game, win your game, get to the RO16. Pressure is on, don't mess up. I like that.
Remember we aren't talking about Code S here, this is Code A, would be like complaining because the minor league baseball teams don't play 162 games like the major league teams. Just how it is. With the way the system is constantly flowing moving players up and down the deserving players will work their way to Code S and the poor ones will get weeded out over time.
I just think these BO1 Code A matches are going to be great, suspense filled viewing if that is the way they go with it.
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I think the system is fine. Code S is double elim so thats fine, and Code A begins great as everyone is fighting to stay in that position.
The bottom positions of Code A should be rough and players should be dropped and lose their ratings to make room for any newcomers.
I know that there is the possibility of shitty cheese, but that seems to be a possibility in every round of the GSL, and eventually players are just going to have to learn to beat it.
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The only suspense will be praying that the few good players in Code A won't get cheesed out of a chance to qualify for Code S.
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Who cares about the frigging format LOL.
We should be excited about the matchups !
oGsMC vs oGsNaDa!??!!?
TLAF-Liquid'Jinro VS EGIdrA?!?!?!?
TSL_FruitDealer vs IMMVP?!?!?!?
MarineKingPrime.WE vs TSL_Clide ?!?!? How unlucky clide LOL.
KyrixZenith vs TSL_sSKS Probably my favourite MU because of Tester and Kyrix the agressor :D
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I suppose the purpose of my question on page 3 jalstar was more to imply that while bo1 in round robin could work, they aren't even doing a true round robin, and I wanted to confirm that OSL didn't also do a fake round robin.
I would rather have bo3's, but time constraints most likely will enforce bo1 play in groups. But if you don't even get to play all three opponents in your group before it's decided whether you go on or not, then the argument for group play goes out the door.
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On December 16 2010 07:58 shannn wrote:
MarineKingPrime.WE vs TSL_Clide ?!?!? How unlucky clide LOL.
KyrixZenith vs TSL_sSKS Probably my favourite MU because of Tester and Kyrix the agressor :D
Clide's a badass, man, I want to see how he prepares for this matchup. And I agree with you about Kyrix versus Tester.
Overall, despite the cheesing in GSL3, this GSL4 still looks damned scary. I guess we can't say "Oh, too bad they met each other so early in the tournament" anymore because everyone's such a badass.
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On December 16 2010 07:49 FLuE wrote:
long post making many assumptions
Luck. Anyone can get cheesed out or have a bad game. You don't have to have a full best-of-five-sets whole tournament like with tennis, but one game is not enough to determine the better player.
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Can't wait for this to start, as all of the match ups are c - r - a - z - y.
It's really too bad the NA scene doesn't have something similar to the GSL. It would be awesome if there was a dedicated SC2 tournament in NA, but I guess MLG will have to do.
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i like the Code S tournament but the group are quite bad, lots of teamates ended up in the same group (hi oGs group + both foreigners in the same group : / )
for the code A tournament i'll just quite the master :
On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
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On December 16 2010 07:49 FLuE wrote:
long post making many assumptions
Luck. Anyone can get cheesed out or have a bad game. You don't have to have a full best-of-five-sets whole tournament like with tennis, but one game is not enough to determine the better player.
I imagine there is some sort of rules on this board about using the quote function and then changing what someone wrote to make it appear that that is what they typed? Please don't do that, if you want to direct it at me fine but don't use the quote function, my name, and make it look like that is what I typed. If you are going to use the quote function and a persons name then keep what they said(policy of most message boards).
I made no assumptions. I know someone can get cheese out. I never said BO1 is the BEST way to determine who is better. So actually you are the one making assumptions. Frankly, I don't actually care to some degree because it isn't like that player will never get a chance to play SC2 again. If you go out on a bad break, that sucks but bad beats happen. But who is to say you won't get cheesed out in a BO3? We've seen that happen plenty.
I just find that it will make for an exciting RO32 if it is BO1. That is my opinion, if I'm playing to view it I want to be entertained and I think BO1 is going to be very entertaining with it all on the line for one game. Please don't intentionally misquote me though.
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I think for 4 players per group, a 2-game rr would be better than a 1-game rr. I guess it's a little better than the GSL open tournaments though, because you're guaranteed 3 games to prove your worth against 3 different players to advance to the next round.
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wait wait wait, I'm I getting this right? Does this mean that for example FruitDealer is 2 BO1s and 1 BO3 away from potentially getting dropped to Code A??
say he loses to MVP (could easily happen)
then he plays a ZvZ (easy loss)
And then he may end up 4th place and being a single BO3 away from Code A.
I think a LOT of great players will end up in Code A due to sheer variance and luck.
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Overall I like the format for Code S, but I have to admit that the bo1 group stage definitely favours cheesy and gimmicky players. Yes it's basically the same as MSL/OSL but in BW it's much harder to cheese wins against top players than in SC2.
Kind of worried for Boxer vs Hyperdub.
Also, who decides what map the games are played on? This is probably the most importang thing. Nobody's going to be impressed if Fruit has to play a bo1 vs MVP on Steppes =/
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On December 16 2010 09:30 niteReloaded wrote:
wait wait wait, I'm I getting this right? Does this mean that for example FruitDealer is 2 BO1s and 1 BO3 away from potentially getting dropped to Code A??
say he loses to MVP (could easily happen)
then he plays a ZvZ (easy loss)
And then he may end up 4th place and being a single BO3 away from Code A.
I think a LOT of great players will end up in Code A due to sheer variance and luck.
Yeah, it looks scary how easy players can fall out of the tournament! But this is the general problem with BO1....
Apart from that the system is very well thought out. Pretty much ALL the games will be exciting, I'm looking soo forward to that!!
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I am somewhat confused as to whether I like or dislike this system. I think it probably would have been best if the code S groups were BO3 matches.
As to part of Code A being bo1, sorry Ret, but as someone said before from a viewer's perspective bo1 elimination matches can be Really interesting to watch, as there is a lot of suspense. From a player's perspective it sucks indeed though..
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Anyone have the dates for these matches?
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I hate the idea of anyone busting their ass practicing for hour after hour, day after day only to have it all come down to a Bo1, especially with all the crap maps in the pool. The whole thing feels rushed.
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jinro vs idra.
gomtv's idea of a sick joke =\
letting foreigners kill themselves is so unfair!!
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seriously why cant they make it a simple tournament format? why all this complex rules and procedures??
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United Arab Emirates333 Posts
My god, this is so complex. Im wondering if this type of tournament "design" has been used before or was this specifically made for GSL.
Anyone?
edit: Not saying i dont like it,, =)
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On December 16 2010 10:42 iGX wrote:
jinro vs idra.
gomtv's idea of a sick joke =\
letting foreigners kill themselves is so unfair!!
You do realize that everyone in each group plays everyone else in their group. Idra and Jinro could both advance.
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like other posters I really don't like all the BO1...
considering map imbalances (thanks Blizz) and the facrt that the game already lends itself to huge amounts of cheese (in season 3 the macro games were few and far between) all these BO1 will just turn the tournament into a joke...
you can't show you're the best player in one game, even BO3 didn't prevent plenty of cheesers from qualifying for and moving up in seasons 1, 2 and 3, if they play just one mgame, well, they might just toss a coin, one good build and you win, one bad build (or bad in that one game anyways) and you're out...
too bad, I was looking forward to seeing all those great players but when the system seems to favor cheesers even more so than usual I think I'll pass
best of luck to Ret though, he's really underrated and should have made code S already (but he lost too cheese, hmmm)
really shows whoever coined the term e-sport doesn't really know what sports are about
peace, gl
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Whoever drew this up must be a soccer fan, because it seems like a mishmash of World Cup format + League Relegations
edit: Despite it's complexity, it makes sense. If only the random drawings for each group had worked out better..
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On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
I thought it was group play, which then Best of 1's would at least be... reasonable.
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On December 16 2010 11:07 niteowl wrote:
like other posters I really don't like all the BO1...
considering map imbalances (thanks Blizz) and the facrt that the game already lends itself to huge amounts of cheese (in season 3 the macro games were few and far between) all these BO1 will just turn the tournament into a joke...
you can't show you're the best player in one game, even BO3 didn't prevent plenty of cheesers from qualifying for and moving up in seasons 1, 2 and 3, if they play just one mgame, well, they might just toss a coin, one good build and you win, one bad build (or bad in that one game anyways) and you're out...
too bad, I was looking forward to seeing all those great players but when the system seems to favor cheesers even more so than usual I think I'll pass
best of luck to Ret though, he's really underrated and should have made code S already (but he lost too cheese, hmmm)
really shows whoever coined the term e-sport doesn't really know what sports are about
peace, gl
I agree, the bo1 format is just unfair for the players. It's probably due to time constraints though. Perhaps they could try to cast less games and instead have multiple games running at the same time? Code A isn't as attractive as Code S and I think most people would prefer a fairer tournament with bo3's for Code A ro32/16 instead of watching all the matches in Code A.
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Don't know if this is listed but you guys need to check this out as well (or add it into the OP):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177251
Gives all the info about the tours (including Super Tournament, World Champs etc). Also....
"Code S
Ro32(16 players) : 1,500,000won each
Ro16(8 players) : 2,000,000won each
Ro8(4 players) : 3,000,000won each
Semifinals(2 players) : 5,000,000won each
Runner-up : 20,000,000won
Champion : 50,000,000won" So basically you get $1,300 US for being an S-Class automatically (which is pretty sweet on a non-salary basis).
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United States7481 Posts
John kindly took the time to respond to my complaint post on the gomtv.net forums and said it's basically a case of time restrains as to why they can't run a (what we believe as more fair) system with full group round-robins and so forth. I understand that. So in this case, I still fully urge coping the MST group format, as below.
Game 1:A vs B
Game 2:C vs D
Game 3:Winner of Game 1 vs Winner of Game 2 -> this winner is #1 in the group
Game 4:Loser of Game 1 vs Loser of Game 2 -> this loser is #4 in the group
Game 5:Loser of Game 3 vs Winner of Game 4 -> winner is #2, loser is #3
As opposed to the current gom-explained system where the first and 2nd turns are preordained.
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Australia8532 Posts
Lol jinro vs Idra straight up! that is insanely awesome! and there is going to be so much money up for grabs; that is so freaking awesome! .. oh man..
I wander if iNcontrol will post his BO1 rant on this thread? Cause that was pretty epic during SotG lol!
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United States7481 Posts
edit: it's winner vs loser in both round 2 matches, not winner vs winner and loser vs loser as I thought.. so i'm still unhappy.
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On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
i agree, it should be atleast bo3... especially since they apply pressure on players to keep their status in single elim...
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On December 16 2010 13:08 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous i agree, it should be atleast bo3... especially since they apply pressure on players to keep their status in single elim...
Is there any confirmation of the group matches being bo1?
I think the system is really good, the groups aren't round robin to gain time and they seed them by rank, that's a pretty good solution to the time issue, but only if the group matches are bo3.
I hope they will use bo3..
Edit: Yes, i read it again and you were talking about class A... bo1 there. That's really sad.
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will any of gsl matches be free for foreigners? or are we gonna have to bust out 15 a month every season
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nice MC vs Nada then Jinro vs Idra gonna be great matches early.
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I find this unnecessarily confusing and complicated.
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On December 16 2010 08:33 Turgid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 07:58 shannn wrote:
MarineKingPrime.WE vs TSL_Clide ?!?!? How unlucky clide LOL.
KyrixZenith vs TSL_sSKS Probably my favourite MU because of Tester and Kyrix the agressor :D Clide's a badass, man, I want to see how he prepares for this matchup. And I agree with you about Kyrix versus Tester. Overall, despite the cheesing in GSL3, this GSL4 still looks damned scary. I guess we can't say "Oh, too bad they met each other so early in the tournament" anymore because everyone's such a badass.
Defensive master vs Offensive master.
Goin' be epic.
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Can't agree with the Bo1 in the 32 and 16 rounds of Code A. I think that at least Ro16 code A should be a Bo3.
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Does anyone think that the koreans fear the foreigners? So they pit the only 2 foreigners in S class against each other. I mean what are the odds they would be in the same group and the play each other first round. Just seems like the group drawing could have been fixed alittle. Just saying
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Holy crap MC vs Nada and Jinro vs IdrA? That's a crazy first set of matches. Not liking the Code A rules though.
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updated now with a lot of information.
The updated information seems to have been hidden on gomtv so take it with a grain of salt as I haven't seen it myself. Hope someone has a screenshot of it.
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100,000,000 won is approximately 87,000 USD... typo?
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So who's better? Gorilla or Gracken? I guess we will find out!! :D
100mil won is 87k USD. That's what the prize for the first place in 3 GSLs has been.
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2 players from North America, 2 from Europe, 2 from Taiwan, 2 from China and 8 players from Korea
Why is this limited to Taiwan and China?!?! That is completely unfair.
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On December 16 2010 17:15 inFeZa wrote:Show nested quote + 2 players from North America, 2 from Europe, 2 from Taiwan, 2 from China and 8 players from Korea Why is this limited to Taiwan and China?!?! That is completely unfair.
No SEA LOL. Although they can play in NA servers.
Missing Russia?
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On December 16 2010 17:15 Reasonable wrote:
So who's better? Gorilla or Gracken? I guess we will find out!! :D
100mil won is 87k USD. That's what the prize for the first place in 3 GSLs has been.
Wow, that's unreal.
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On December 16 2010 17:21 daChiBro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 17:15 Reasonable wrote:
So who's better? Gorilla or Gracken? I guess we will find out!! :D
100mil won is 87k USD. That's what the prize for the first place in 3 GSLs has been. Wow, that's unreal.
And second place makes 25k. And yeah, it IS unreal.... 
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it might have a few flaws but this is so many tournaments, games and money.. it's amazing..
never was esports so professionaly handled even if some people disagree with the formats, i believe with the TV thing that they know this might be their best choice and people won't disagree with the prize moneys! I also really like the fact that they help out the foreign scene!
i really look forward for next year, thank you GomTV
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On December 16 2010 17:16 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 17:15 inFeZa wrote: 2 players from North America, 2 from Europe, 2 from Taiwan, 2 from China and 8 players from Korea Why is this limited to Taiwan and China?!?! That is completely unfair. No SEA LOL. Although they can play in NA servers. Missing Russia?
Yes, the world tournament is strange, no SEA, no Eastern Europe (Russia, Ukraine, ...), no South America.
If they really want to keep more Koreans than others they should give Korea 4 players, merge Taiwan and SEA, and give South America and Eastern Europe 2 players each
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I don't like the Best of 1s because it doesn't really reflect the skill of the players. It depends on the luck of the map the opponent race/player.
Example : Group H
Playday 1
M1 Ensnare vs Jinro ( Delta Quadrant )
M2 CheckPrime vs Idra ( Scrap Station )
( lets assume our foreign heroes win their first games )
Playday 2
M1 Jinro vs CheckPrime ( Scrap Station )
M2 Ensnare vs Idra ( Steppes of War )
and depending on the results after playday 2, a playday 3 may or may not have to be played. So if Jinro and Idra ideally win their playday 2 as well ... guess what!!?
we wont be seeing Jinro vs Idra like everyone's so looking forward to see.
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On December 16 2010 19:55 ZeNd0kUn wrote:
I don't like the Best of 1s because it doesn't really reflect the skill of the players. It depends on the luck of the map the opponent race/player.
Example : Group H
Playday 1
M1 Ensnare vs Jinro ( Delta Quadrant )
M2 CheckPrime vs Idra ( Scrap Station )
( lets assume our foreign heroes win their first games )
Playday 2
M1 Jinro vs CheckPrime ( Scrap Station )
M2 Ensnare vs Idra ( Steppes of War )
and depending on the results after playday 2, a playday 3 may or may not have to be played. So if Jinro and Idra ideally win their playday 2 as well ... guess what!!?
we wont be seeing Jinro vs Idra like everyone's so looking forward to see.
You need to read the OP better.
In your example if both Jinro and IdrA wins then they will play on playday 3 against eachother to determine who will be 1st and 2nd. Because this will probably be determined what seeds in the 2nd groupstage they are going to be seeded.
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Thanks to antoine and junkka for this.
LOL@no SEA contributors, since I'm originally a player from that region but now play on the NA server (which obviously was a wise choice). Russians have a hard time getting visas I thought, so maybe they have just completely skipped them which is sort of unfair but reasonable, they also have less players than SEA... and I don't know what the deal is with South America, they just don't have enough players I think.
The BO1 in A Rank is agreeably silly and rather harsh given that maps and cheese can mean an almost automatic out of the tourny, but if you think about it compared to the GSL now, at least those players get an automatic in to the tournament for their first season as opposed to others who have to qualify (bottom 16 code A, this isn't for the first tournament though right? the players in the first code A tournament are already decided? the top korean ladder players, 4 foreigners) I assume in the same fashion as this year's GSLs with preliminaries. I think they have done the prizemoney right though, if you win code A then you are getting way more than a ro64 loser in the current GSL, but still getting less than the bottom of code S, but with a chance of progressing upwards to get into the big league.
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On December 16 2010 15:52 Letitfly wrote:
Does anyone think that the koreans fear the foreigners? So they pit the only 2 foreigners in S class against each other. I mean what are the odds they would be in the same group and the play each other first round. Just seems like the group drawing could have been fixed alittle. Just saying
The groups/matchups are not completly randmonized, read the OP. Just saying.
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On December 16 2010 03:05 Liquid`Ret wrote:
ya if ro32 and ro16 in code a are really best of 1 thats kinda ridiculous
Start practicing 6 pools, evo bombs, workers rushes...
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On December 16 2010 20:10 Mr.Brightside wrote:
Thanks to antoine and junkka for this.
LOL@no SEA contributors, since I'm originally a player from that region but now play on the NA server (which obviously was a wise choice). Russians have a hard time getting visas I thought, so maybe they have just completely skipped them which is sort of unfair but reasonable, they also have less players than SEA... and I don't know what the deal is with South America, they just don't have enough players I think.
"Russians" aka Eastern Europe means people like White-ra, Dimaga, Bratok and at least White-ra is always able to attend as I noticed
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On December 16 2010 22:08 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 20:10 Mr.Brightside wrote:
Thanks to antoine and junkka for this.
LOL@no SEA contributors, since I'm originally a player from that region but now play on the NA server (which obviously was a wise choice). Russians have a hard time getting visas I thought, so maybe they have just completely skipped them which is sort of unfair but reasonable, they also have less players than SEA... and I don't know what the deal is with South America, they just don't have enough players I think. "Russians" aka Eastern Europe means people like White-ra, Dimaga, Bratok and at least White-ra is always able to attend as I noticed
I think what he meant was that Russia has its own local BN server...
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I like the Code S system. But you only get a real round robin when its 1-1 all or 2-0 2-0
if its 2-0 1-1 1-1 0-2 you only get to watch the 1-1 play in M3
Well Code A Best of ONE kinda sux... must be because of time constraints
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On December 16 2010 22:45 DTWolfwood wrote:I like the Code S system. But you only get a real round robin when its 1-1 all or 2-0 2-0 if its 2-0 1-1 1-1 0-2 you only get to watch the 1-1 play in M3 Well Code A Best of ONE kinda sux... must be because of time constraints
This is to avoid tie breakers and above all for the possibility of a group with more than 2 members of the same team setting it up to get 2 members through (obviously you won't eliminate rigging matches entirely).
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On December 16 2010 22:53 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 22:45 DTWolfwood wrote:I like the Code S system. But you only get a real round robin when its 1-1 all or 2-0 2-0 if its 2-0 1-1 1-1 0-2 you only get to watch the 1-1 play in M3 Well Code A Best of ONE kinda sux... must be because of time constraints This is to avoid tie breakers and above all for the possibility of a group with more than 2 members of the same team. This to ensure they won't rig the matches (obviously you won't eliminate rigging matches entirely).
I don't understand what's wrong with using the difference between games won and games lost, or the match between two players with the same record, to decide who gets the position in the league. It's what they do in sports all over the world, and what GomTV already did in the Code A qualifications matches.
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On December 17 2010 00:36 The Touch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 22:53 shannn wrote:On December 16 2010 22:45 DTWolfwood wrote:I like the Code S system. But you only get a real round robin when its 1-1 all or 2-0 2-0 if its 2-0 1-1 1-1 0-2 you only get to watch the 1-1 play in M3 Well Code A Best of ONE kinda sux... must be because of time constraints This is to avoid tie breakers and above all for the possibility of a group with more than 2 members of the same team. This to ensure they won't rig the matches (obviously you won't eliminate rigging matches entirely). I don't understand what's wrong with using the difference between games won and games lost, or the match between two players with the same record, to decide who gets the position in the league. It's what they do in sports all over the world, and what GomTV already did in the Code A qualifications matches.
Updated my post you quoted.
And I have posted in my OP why they did it the way they have mentioned it.
If only 1 player has won 2 games and 2 players are at 1-1 then the players with 1-1 will proceed to play again in playday 3 making it an effective Bo3.
The player that loses the first 2 games is automatically 4th and is demoted to Up and Down matches for Code S next Season and does not need to play according to the explainations in the first original post.
The difference in won and lost is the same for those players at 1-1 Only difference is that 1 player was up 1-0 before they played and the other 0-1.
Since the guy who was 0-1 won from the guy who was up 1-0 they will now play a rematch making it an effective Bo3.
Basically this also gives an advantage to players winning their first matches because then you only need to win once against the next opponent whereas if you lost the first match you have to win 2 times in a row against the same opponent while starting 0-1 behind in a bo3 (note the 0-1 is from your loss on your first match).
Basically this sytem makes every match very important except in 1 scenario which is the 2-0 / 1-1 / 1-1 / 0-2 group (the 0-2 won't need to play a third game then because he lost 2 games in a row making him inevitably 4th due to this system).
It's a good system while trying to aim for as less games as possible while still providing intense group plays. There won't be any tie breakers this way.
I will try to update my OP with a graphical image for everyone who doesn't understand how it actually is when I get back in 1.5 hours or so.
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I dont really care for the format, or the groups. But I love all these players I cant wait for gsl 2011!
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I'm not too fond of this system at all. Say if player D is clearly the weaker player. A beats B and C beats D. Then A beats D and B beats C. Now we're at A 2-0, B 1-1, C 1-1, D 0-2. With this system B and C will play again to see who'll advance.
That's very unfair because B had to play the stronger player A, whilst C played the weaker player D. B have yet to play D and C yet to play A. Instead of having to beat player A, player C gets a rematch against B.
On top of that D could make it a three way tie at 1-2 after three rounds.
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Imo they should just make the groups with winner/loser bracket.
So A-B and C-D would play first round. Then the winners play each other and the two losers play eah other. WB winner becomes place 1. The player who loses the losers game is out. An the remaining two battle for 2./3. place. In total that would be 5 games per group, no tiebrakers needed and everybody would need 2 wins to advance.
+ Show Spoiler +
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People need to realise it's only partially a round robin format.
You need to think of it as a double elimination / round robin format.
Do you play every person in a double elimination bracket? no.
GOM has put it a bit unfortunately but they did mention GOM's method in groupstages.
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On December 17 2010 01:37 Wivyx wrote:
I'm not too fond of this system at all. Say if player D is clearly the weaker player. A beats B and C beats D. Then A beats D and B beats C. Now we're at A 2-0, B 1-1, C 1-1, D 0-2. With this system B and C will play again to see who'll advance.
That's very unfair because B had to play the stronger player A, whilst C played the weaker player D. B have yet to play D and C yet to play A. Instead of having to beat player A, player C gets a rematch against B.
On top of that D could make it a three way tie at 1-2 after three rounds.
What you're missing is that C is a higher seed than B. Remember, A was seed from top 8, and C was seeded from top 16.
Of course it's unfair to B, that's the point of the seeding ... that the top two players in each group (A/C) don't have to eliminate each other. That just makes the top players more likely to make it to the playoff rounds, and it's a good incentive to try to make it to top 16 or top 8 each season.
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On December 17 2010 01:05 shannn wrote:
Basically this also gives an advantage to players winning their first matches because then you only need to win once against the next opponent whereas if you lost the first match you have to win 2 times in a row against the same opponent while starting 0-1 behind in a bo3 (note the 0-1 is from your loss on your first match).
but isn't that the same as saying "you're playing a bo3" because it's a given that in a bo3 you win when you win 2 games?
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On December 17 2010 01:05 shannn wrote:
Updated my post you quoted.
...
It's a good system while trying to aim for as less games as possible while still providing intense group plays. There won't be any tie breakers this way.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what they're doing, and I can see that they're trying to minimise the number of games played (or more to the point, probably the number of games being casted, so that they can fit both the Code A and Code S tournaments in), but I don't understand why tie breakers are something that should be avoided. There are a number of very simple and quick ways of differentiating players who otherwise have the same record.
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United States7481 Posts
There's no simple way to differentiate in a 3-way tie, as can often happen in a 4-person round robin (3-0 1-2 1-2 1-2 or 2-1 2-1 2-1 0-3).
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On December 17 2010 03:38 Typhon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 01:05 shannn wrote:
Basically this also gives an advantage to players winning their first matches because then you only need to win once against the next opponent whereas if you lost the first match you have to win 2 times in a row against the same opponent while starting 0-1 behind in a bo3 (note the 0-1 is from your loss on your first match).
It's equivalent to round robin in either case, they just don't play the games that have no impact on advancement or next season's ranking Starting from: 2-0 ---- 1-1 ---- 1-1 ----- 0-2 then after players B and C play, it would be 2-0 , 2-1, 1-2, 0-2 so basically, the 1-2 player can't advance even if player A loses (he'd at most be tied for last), so why play the A-D game if it has no bearing on who advances? Otherwise, you have after the second day: 2-0, 2-0, 0-2, 0-2 or 1-1 x4. 1-1 x4 playing out is standard round robin, 2-0 x2 has already decided the top 2, when you play the remaining round robin, it would be for deciding A/B positions and not who advances. 16-32 are equivalently the same rank, so C/D do not need to play.
quoting myself from OP
Playday 3 has 3 scenario's as GOM has posted it.
If after 2 Playdays there are 2 players who has won 2 games then they proceed to Ro16 but they will still play eachother in playday 3 to determine group rankings. So it will be a full round robin in this case.
If only 1 player has won 2 games and 2 players are at 1-1 then the players with 1-1 will proceed to play again in playday 3 making it an effective Bo3.
The player that loses the first 2 games is automatically 4th and is demoted to Up and Down matches for Code S next Season and does not need to play according to the explainations in the first original post.
Third scenario is if there are all 4 players who are 1-1 then the remaining matches will be played against eachother who hasn't faced eachother making it a normal round robin group again.
Exactly what you just said.
Basically this also gives an advantage to players winning their first matches because then you only need to win once against the next opponent whereas if you lost the first match you have to win 2 times in a row against the same opponent while starting 0-1 behind in a bo3 (note the 0-1 is from your loss on your first match).
What is wrong with that statement?
If you lose your first match you are 0-1. You take that into account against your next opponent because if you win that game you will be 1-1. Then you play again against the same opponent. Doesn't this equate to a Bo3 ? Lose 1st match and you're 0-1 behind and have to win 2 times which means it's 2-1 just like in a Bo3.
If you win your first match you're 1-0 meaning if you win again you're through to the ro16 which is also basically a bo3. The third match when you're 2-0 against another 2-0 means to determine the ranks first or second which seems to have some sort of impact on the 2nd groupstage. Whereas if you are the only one with 2-0 after 2 rounds then you're 1st and don't have to play again which is in the OP. So my statement about winning the first match having a big advantage is wrong?
I honestly can't see what you are trying to correct me if you are trying to correct me.
On December 17 2010 03:52 The Touch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 01:05 shannn wrote:
Updated my post you quoted.
...
It's a good system while trying to aim for as less games as possible while still providing intense group plays. There won't be any tie breakers this way. Don't get me wrong, I understand what they're doing, and I can see that they're trying to minimise the number of games played (or more to the point, probably the number of games being casted, so that they can fit both the Code A and Code S tournaments in), but I don't understand why tie breakers are something that should be avoided. There are a number of very simple and quick ways of differentiating players who otherwise have the same record.
Tie brakers are never easy to differentiate. If you can tell me an easy way without getting a tie breaker after having a tie breaker between 3 players then the system is wrong that GOM posted.
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On December 16 2010 15:52 Letitfly wrote:
Does anyone think that the koreans fear the foreigners? So they pit the only 2 foreigners in S class against each other. I mean what are the odds they would be in the same group and the play each other first round. Just seems like the group drawing could have been fixed alittle. Just saying
The match-ups aren't random, they're determined by ranking in Code S.
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On December 17 2010 04:04 Antoine wrote:
There's no simple way to differentiate in a 3-way tie, as can often happen in a 4-person round robin (3-0 1-2 1-2 1-2 or 2-1 2-1 2-1 0-3).
On December 17 2010 04:16 shannn wrote:
Tie brakers are never easy to differentiate. If you can tell me an easy way without getting a tie breaker after having a tie breaker between 3 players then the system is wrong that GOM posted.
I do agree that it's worth avoiding tie breakers when using a BO1 format, though there are still simple and easy solutions to differentiating (such as the extra series used by OSL), but then it's not exactly quick.
But frankly BO1 is an awful format, both for the players and for the viewers, especially with the current map pool. I would vastly prefer BO3 round robin group stages. It would be far easier to differentiate between players in that situation, based on individual games won and lost, and you can always fall back on the series between the players in question (which happens in regular sports, as well as in the Code S Determination matches) if their overall 'goal difference', so to speak, is the same.
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@shannn, not trying to correct you, just trying to clarify the logic. I edited my previous post to make it shorter. basically, you said that it gives an advantage to the player who wins first, but in any kind of bo3, you'd have to win 2 matches, so it's the same kind of "oh, if you win 2 in a row you dont' have to play the third game anymore" kind of advantage.
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On December 17 2010 04:24 Typhon wrote:
@shannn, not trying to correct you, just trying to clarify the logic. I edited my previous post to make it shorter. basically, you said that it gives an advantage to the player who wins first, but in any kind of bo3, you'd have to win 2 matches, so it's the same kind of "oh, if you win 2 in a row you dont' have to play the third game anymore" kind of advantage.
It was talking about the mental state you get in when you win the first match which is the same as in a bo3.
Being behind has more pressure as you only need to lose once rather than two times so it's actually more advantageous if you're starting 1-0 in a Bo3 rather than 0-1. It's a mental state which the player puts himself in going in a match.
It's still the same thing which comes down to if you win the 2nd and 3rd game but the state you start into a match is advantageous or not? That's what I meant.
On December 17 2010 04:23 The Touch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 04:04 Antoine wrote:
There's no simple way to differentiate in a 3-way tie, as can often happen in a 4-person round robin (3-0 1-2 1-2 1-2 or 2-1 2-1 2-1 0-3). Show nested quote +On December 17 2010 04:16 shannn wrote:
Tie brakers are never easy to differentiate. If you can tell me an easy way without getting a tie breaker after having a tie breaker between 3 players then the system is wrong that GOM posted. I do agree that it's worth avoiding tie breakers when using a BO1 format, though there are still simple and easy solutions to differentiating (such as the extra series used by OSL), but then it's not exactly quick. But frankly BO1 is an awful format, both for the players and for the viewers, especially with the current map pool. I would vastly prefer BO3 round robin group stages. It would be far easier to differentiate between players in that situation, based on individual games won and lost, and you can always fall back on the series between the players in question (which happens in regular sports, as well as in the Code S Determination matches) if their overall 'goal difference', so to speak, is the same.
Isn't the extra series longer ? Yea you answered that. Which GOM doesn't want.
Bo3 is better than bo1 yes. But GOM can't do that for now as it's more expensive and takes more time which they can't do for some reasons.
Now take those into account and the way GOM has set it up now is the best method based on what the time and budget asks for apparently.
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The best thing about this is they put the priority in matching players of similar skill, and advancing as many top players as possible in the fewest matches.
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Code A indeed is like a second chance. It's like double elimination, where all the players who got eliminated get dropped to Code A. Besides, the whole point is to decide who gets to move to Code S and if you lose your first game someone else is going to be more deserving
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so...what happens if a person in Code S gets sick, say, and they can't play on of the GSL leagues...they automatically drop to Code A?!
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Couldnt be more excited for this.
I think the system is great (Okay, I dont understand it 100 % but it looks good)
and 2011 will be the Glory year of SC2!
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Some really interesting matchups. Can't wait to see Fruitdealer vs Zenio, Kyrix vs sks, boxer vs thewind and idra jinro. Kind of sad that group f has 3 oGs members though, major team kills.
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lol @ only two foreigners duking it out first match.
sad facey @ nada vs mc.
bummed @ all the ogs team kills.
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On December 16 2010 02:43 shannn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 16 2010 02:39 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2010 02:00 shannn wrote:On December 16 2010 01:37 Antoine wrote:hmmmm part of this doesn't make sense to me. "2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified." take the following schedule of matches and results + Show Spoiler +If you take the records after the 2nd turn, D would be eliminated because he's 0-2. However if you take the results after turn 3, there are 3 1-2 players. The only way it's fair is if they schedule the matches like the MSL Survivor format of starting matches -> winners/losers game -> final match, so the 2nd turn would be a vs c and b vs d from my example. Gom will decide it then. I must say that it would be best to have it like MSL but maybe GOM will change the format to MSL. Hard to type on an iPad. A would qualify after 2 wins, so theres no chance for A to get a third win a>b c>d a>d A qualifies D is eliminated c is 1-0, b is 0-1, but b=c still because if b>c they are both 1-1 and b > c in the match so b qualifies Ah yea now that you explained it I understand. So it doesn't really matter now. This means if u win 2 matches there is no need to win a 3rd then it would explain it all right?
I think this is their aim, they want people to achive that 2-0 win and give it their all on the first 2 game and not thinking something like: its ok to lose the 1st/2nd game as long as I win the 3rd one
off course like mentioned, this could cause a Game Order (GO) loss for some people
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Posted the GSL Tour 2011 news again as Nazgul re-opened the gsl tour thread so I think it should be alright to have the news back up.
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Thanks for posting this sir
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i have a question and sorry if this has already been aswered. If the top 4 spots are for foreigners that won a big tournament will that mean that they are invited permanently or just for a season. if they , for example manage to get code S or move down to b. Because if they then leave korea or someone else gets that spot the system may get kind of weird
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On December 16 2010 03:13 purecarnagge wrote:
Idra is totally licking his chops for this bracket. Ensare prefer's macro games. Check prime doesn't have the macro Idra does, and I think Idra vews himself as a better player than Jinro (no offense love Jinro) He uses tanks!!!!!
Jinro is the dark horse of the division. I love it. I think the most interesting matchup is Jinro vs Idra.
Hardly a dark horse really, he looked as good as Idra has ever looked in GSL 3, and thats no crack at Idra.
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Wow thats so much money in prize pool. $1200 for just being code S !?!?!?!?!?!
They are definitely going to attract a bunch of foreigners now. I bet a few more scbw players join soon.
Awesome info.
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2011 is gonna be all SC2 all year baby. Can't wait !
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Using BO1 is retarded...
I like to see all the money involved though =D =D
The prizes make sense.
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that is a lot of prize money lol
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Absolutely stoked for this, and it begins right on Jan 2nd! Hopefully they get enough of a return on this investment to keep it up!
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Anyone know when is the offline preliminary for the 172 players?
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Now that I've gotten to see how this works, I really like the relegation setup. The upcoming up and down matches should be pretty interesting.
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://img2.imagebanana.com/img/b7bzdvvq/baba.jpg)
