For simplicity sake, this will now be the main thread over Ansadi, over all Starcraft sites. This way I don't have to update around the communities.
Anyone is allowed to join the Ansadi Star League, just follow the rules/instructions on the website. The ASL will start on April 2nd to April 16th on ICCUP. It is a two week process to determine the top 16 players or the standing 16. The standing 16 will advance onwards to a tournament-like format from April 17th to April 21st. Ansadi is experimenting with a different way to pit opponents against one another to make the tournament/league stand out from others. For now, that's going to be a surprise to make things more fun for the standing 16.
There's 16 -> 8 -> 4 -> 2 , 4 rounds. Within the first two rounds (16 and 8), it will be best of 3. For the semi-finals and finals, it will be best of 7. The rounds themselves will be completed within a 3 day period. 1st day is devoted to rounds 1 and 2. 2nd day is devoted to the semi-finals. The 3rd day is set aside for the finals. I've done the calculations. Players will play a minimum of 4 games and a maximum of 6-7 games each day depending on how efficient they are at beating their opponents.
The rules guide show that 4 days have been set aside for the standing 16, but only 3 days are utilized for the tournament. This is not a mistake.
On the first day, players that are the standing 16 must login to the standing 16 section of the Ansadi website.
There will be further instructions and explanations within there on what to do next along with other things that must be completed. Logins are given to the top 16 players after the ladder phase. The contents of the standing 16 section of the website must not be disclosed to the non-standing, because part or all will be used for later ASLs.
Then the 3 day tournament begins. Good Luck!
The cash prize pool is $700. 1st) $400 2nd) $100 3rd) $100 4th) $20 5th) $20 6th) $20 7th) $20 8th) $20
This tournament has been given the go-ahead by [censored by request]... I think.
EDIT: And I think the poster below me put it best: even if this all did end up being false, (it can't be a "scam" because we're not putting in any money to enter) you'll have just played a bunch of BW for nothing. Oh noes.
On March 30 2009 05:21 Diomedes wrote: Who is behind Ansadi? And since Ansadi isn't a company. where does the money come from?
How can a 700 dollar tournament suddenly appear out of nothing with no one knowing what it up with all this.
On March 30 2009 05:19 SkepTicAL wrote: Why you posting again, give us a reason to believe this is legit
The problem with you people, is that you all want to act intelligent, smart and prudent. And this is your chance. But do you really have to exploit that chance? Others do the same thing, actually, your posts don't add anything to the discussion. Look: You don't pay, you play your favourite game, you can win cash. No need to inform everyone that they don't know anything about Ansadi and stuff. Everyone noticed it by himself. So instead of exposing your intelligence, decide - you play or not. And don't post about reliability of ASL, I'm getting sick of this.
I'll tell you guys straight up. We have no reason to believe this is either legit or a scam. Because the person isn't asking for anything and has been advertising for a couple days i'd probably give him/her the benefit of the doubt. Does it seem sketchy? Yes. Will people get paid? I'd probably be inclined to say yes. That being said we are going to mod the hell out of this thread to get out trolls. Don't test us.
Yep... I think it's pretty clear he doesn't want his or his sponsor's identity revealed. But that doesn't mean it's a scam.
"The Messenger" has revealed his and his sponsor's identity to a few really respected members of the community, and they haven't called foul yet. So stop carping about the secrecy. It won't make any difference at all.
NONONONONONONONO, HE'S A SCAMMER SCAMMER!!!!
SCAMMER! SCAMMER SCAMMER SCAMMER!
HE BYPASSES THE LAW! HE NEEDS TO GET ARRESTED!!!!!!ONE11!
I have to say that this is one of the sketchier things I've seen in the foreign BW scene.
- anonymous donor - unknown and evasive staff (is it just one guy?) - entire section of ansadi.com's homepage devoted to LastShadow - bizarre language ("Hail King Ansadi"?)
On March 30 2009 06:08 JWD wrote: I have to say that this is one of the sketchier things I've seen in the foreign BW scene.
While I agree it may seem sketchy, I really don't see what there is to gain from spending money to register a domain (ansadi.com) and pay for advertising on TL (via the banner above, $7/day up for a day or two now). There's no entry fee, no request for registration at a website, nothing that seems like a scam.
It may just be what it seems like, someone basically donating $700 so we can watch gosus play each other. It probably seems too good to be true thus the natural distrust, but what's the worst that can happen? Some foreign BW players waste two weeks on a ladder?
Sure there's some cryptic language and ambiguous information, but that kind of fits with the new amateurish organizational feeling. Ultimately it'll be up to the players and community to decide for themselves whether its legit, but I think given the time and money already put into this by its creator we should give it the benefit of the doubt.
Well, if this is real, it rocks! If its a scam, then I guess it would suck for the players that invest time in climbing the ladder with yet another nick (scl) but then again, extra training, and I will be sure to hang around those couple of days to play some gosus on the rise !
On March 30 2009 06:08 JWD wrote: I have to say that this is one of the sketchier things I've seen in the foreign BW scene.
While I agree it may seem sketchy, I really don't see what there is to gain from spending money to register a domain (ansadi.com) and pay for advertising on TL (via the banner above, $7/day up for a day or two now). There's no entry fee, no request for registration at a website, nothing that seems like a scam.
It may just be what it seems like, someone basically donating $700 so we can watch gosus play each other. It probably seems too good to be true thus the natural distrust, but what's the worst that can happen? Some foreign BW players waste two weeks on a ladder?
Obviously nobody has much to lose by entering this tournament, but if it is a scam, I think the worst part about it getting big-name participants is that whoever is running it will get a lot of unfair attention (and might use it for some nefarious purpose).
Then again, all that sounds pretty far-fetched. I guess what really puts me off is that it seems like the messengerASL fellow has no desire whatsoever to try to "clear the tourney's name" by releasing any information about it. Not to mention that the entire thing is just extremely pompously done, for a $700 tournament.
Seems to me that the worst case scenario is having wasted time playing iccup games that you would have anyway? Best case scenario we have another money tournament.
On March 30 2009 08:05 Divinek wrote: what exactly is ansadi though
I think it's a nickname, or secret identity if you wish, of Kim Yong-il. While spying South Korea he was trying to find its weaknesses. He found out that starcraft is the second most influencing thing (after fans) for south koreans and the right way how to bring them on their knees. How's he gonna do it? He will organise tournaments with prize money to motivate top foreigner players to train hard and compete with koreans who he lets play in the tournaments so foreigners can adapt to their high level play. Obviously foreigners can't do much in starcraft, this is only preparation for starcraft 2. When it comes out the natural talent of foreigners combined with hardcore training habits will make foreigners totally run over koreans. With starcraft having a share of cca 20% on korean GDP the impact will be disastrous. Unemployment will grow as all the pro teams will be filled by foreigners, starcraft TVs will shut down because koreans aren't masochists like us and don't enjoy watching other of their spieces getting raped live. Under threat of national bankruptcy Lee Myung-bak will ask Kim Yong-il to unite North and South once again.
And so they all will hail to King Ansadi, the Abraham Lincoln of Asia.
Apart of this, he's working also on another project, check it out.
Anyways lets go, why not. Worst thing that happens is people play a bunch of ladder games (which the people who would be playing do anyway).
Forgive us MessengerASL for being so distrustful, it's just a natural human reaction when someone offers something for nothing.
On March 25ish 2009 08:41 messengerASL @ gosu gamers wrote: I can not believe how cynical you guys all are. It's not a sponsor. There's a reason behind doing this. The benefactor will get something out of this. It's just not revealed yet.
Ok, this is pretty creepy.
If I were in MessengerASL's place I'd offer a small cash prize, have that go down, pay out the prize, then up the prize. Would make everything go much more smoothly.
On March 30 2009 09:22 scwizard wrote: If I were in MessengerASL's place I'd offer a small cash prize, have that go down, pay out the prize, then up the prize. Would make everything go much more smoothly.
Maybe they consider $700 small? For the amount of work involved in running a league, I definitely wouldn't start with $50. :p
On March 30 2009 09:22 scwizard wrote: If I were in MessengerASL's place I'd offer a small cash prize, have that go down, pay out the prize, then up the prize. Would make everything go much more smoothly.
Maybe they consider $700 small? For the amount of work involved in running a league, I definitely wouldn't start with $50. :p
On March 30 2009 09:22 scwizard wrote: If I were in MessengerASL's place I'd offer a small cash prize, have that go down, pay out the prize, then up the prize. Would make everything go much more smoothly.
Maybe they consider $700 small? For the amount of work involved in running a league, I definitely wouldn't start with $50. :p
QFT - Quoted for Truth
Finally someone explains what QFT means...been lurking this channel over a year and never knew what the fuck it stands for. Thanks Messenger.
On March 30 2009 09:22 scwizard wrote: If I were in MessengerASL's place I'd offer a small cash prize, have that go down, pay out the prize, then up the prize. Would make everything go much more smoothly.
Maybe they consider $700 small? For the amount of work involved in running a league, I definitely wouldn't start with $50. :p
QFT - Quoted for Truth
Finally someone explains what QFT means...been lurking this channel over a year and never knew what the fuck it stands for. Thanks Messenger.
On March 30 2009 09:22 scwizard wrote: If I were in MessengerASL's place I'd offer a small cash prize, have that go down, pay out the prize, then up the prize. Would make everything go much more smoothly.
Maybe they consider $700 small? For the amount of work involved in running a league, I definitely wouldn't start with $50. :p
QFT - Quoted for Truth
Finally someone explains what QFT means...been lurking this channel over a year and never knew what the fuck it stands for. Thanks Messenger.
On March 31 2009 10:36 ilovelosses wrote: obv ansadi is an anagram for dasani, their sponsor
Its actually Nada's Eye (i)
He is looking for a true gosu so he can recruit him and smurf for him.
Nada is after all the highest paid progamer ever so 700$ is pocket change. It all makes sense. He is also an Emperor (King) so what else could it POSSIBLY be?
Maybe this is the new TL project, or even the first qualification tourney for TSL2.
Proof for TSL2: - Main thread for Ansadi Starleague is on TL - Liquibition ended just a few days ago. Coincidence ? - If you change the A in ASL into a T you get TSL !!!!! - di means two in greek - ANSA is obviously an anagram for NASA, which stands for the stellar rise of the first TSL -.I want it to be true
On April 01 2009 01:10 Dagor wrote: Maybe this is the new TL project, or even the first qualification tourney for TSL2.
Proof for TSL2: - Main thread for Ansadi Starleague is on TL - Liquibition ended just a few days ago. Coincidence ? - If you change the A in ASL into a T you get TSL !!!!! - di means two in greek - ANSA is obviously an anagram for NASA, which stands for the stellar rise of the first TSL -.I want it to be true
Irrefutable evidence.
My bet it is that this ASL is the first troll league ever. The ansadi.com homepage is to funny to be true on the internet.
On April 01 2009 01:10 Dagor wrote: Maybe this is the new TL project, or even the first qualification tourney for TSL2.
Proof for TSL2: - Main thread for Ansadi Starleague is on TL - Liquibition ended just a few days ago. Coincidence ? - If you change the A in ASL into a T you get TSL !!!!! - di means two in greek - ANSA is obviously an anagram for NASA, which stands for the stellar rise of the first TSL -.I want it to be true
I hope TSL2 comes before SC2 also! But with WCG starting soon I'm kinda doubtful. TSL was great and I'm sure when SC2 comes out it will be like TSL every day!
On April 01 2009 01:10 Dagor wrote: Maybe this is the new TL project, or even the first qualification tourney for TSL2.
Proof for TSL2: - Main thread for Ansadi Starleague is on TL - Liquibition ended just a few days ago. Coincidence ? - If you change the A in ASL into a T you get TSL !!!!! - di means two in greek - ANSA is obviously an anagram for NASA, which stands for the stellar rise of the first TSL -.I want it to be true
I understand that you want TSL2 to be true, but I lol'd at you.
On March 30 2009 05:14 messengerASL wrote: For simplicity sake, this will now be the main thread over Ansadi, over all Starcraft sites. This way I don't have to update around the communities.
On March 30 2009 05:14 messengerASL wrote: For simplicity sake, this will now be the main thread over Ansadi, over all Starcraft sites. This way I don't have to update around the communities.
I'll update ICCUP as well. Thank you for getting back to me so quickly about posting on ICCUP and thank you for the editing job and getting the word out on ICCUP. It was very much appreciated.
The league starts tomorrow (April 2nd). Once the league begins, players may still sign up after the start date by joining Team ASL led by ICCUP user ID "messengerASL." Check out the rules below if you want to compete. I just wanted to share my own thoughts on the league. The turnout is good/solid, thanks to every one helping to take this off the ground including friends over at ICCUP, ICCUP.Del and YellowAnt for editing/posting news and troubleshooting bugs, respectively.
This is a unique opportunity for those players who ordinarily wouldn't make it to the tournament round. Due to various events regarding the Starcraft foreigner scene and other good leagues like SC2GG going on, some of the outstanding players that you'd normally see won't be competing in this league. From what I can tell, there's currently only 3 of these outstanding players (that I recognize), Artosis / Xiaozi / Ranged, that have thus signed up so far. If I left your name out, forgive me, it is due to ignorance not malice.
So it's very conceivable that C/C+ ranked players will actually make it into the tournament phase, perhaps even D+ ranked players. So you all actually have a very good chance at winning a prize. This is going to be a grueling two weeks. This is a "short" league, comparatively. So, I recommend preparing yourself psychologically. It will be intense. Because of the makeup of the players, through hard work (playing excessive games), it may even be possible to make it to the tournament phase with hard work and a modicum of skill.
So in closing, good luck every one and good gaming!!!!
On April 01 2009 11:35 messengerASL wrote: The league starts tomorrow (April 2nd). Once the league begins, players may still sign up after the start date by joining Team ASL led by ICCUP user ID "messengerASL." Check out the rules below if you want to compete. I just wanted to share my own thoughts on the league. The turnout is good/solid, thanks to every one helping to take this off the ground including friends over at ICCUP, ICCUP.Del and YellowAnt for editing/posting news and troubleshooting bugs, respectively.
This is a unique opportunity for those players who ordinarily wouldn't make it to the tournament round. Due to various events regarding the Starcraft foreigner scene and other good leagues like SC2GG going on, some of the outstanding players that you'd normally see won't be competing in this league. From what I can tell, there's currently only 3 of these outstanding players (that I recognize), Artosis / Xiaozi / Ranged, that have thus signed up so far. If I left your name out, forgive me, it is due to ignorance not malice.
So it's very conceivable that C/C+ ranked players will actually make it into the tournament phase, perhaps even D+ ranked players. So you all actually have a very good chance at winning a prize. This is going to be a grueling two weeks. This is a "short" league, comparatively. So, I recommend preparing yourself psychologically. It will be intense. Because of the makeup of the players, through hard work (playing excessive games), it may even be possible to make it to the tournament phase with hard work and a modicum of skill.
So in closing, good luck every one and good gaming!!!!
How am I an outstanding player? im like B+ rank barely T_T.
On April 01 2009 15:47 Divinek wrote: Dude this tourney has more cash than sc2gg, you bet the better players will be playing in this one
That will not happen.
Generally, people either have all the free time in the world or they don't. (this is from my own observations). For those who do, they'll have enough time to play in both leagues, very easily. For those who do not have all the free time in the world, they'll just generally stick to one event due to committing already and time constraints. And since we came out during the later part of SC2GG's season, we won't be impacting them.
SC2GG is far along enough now in their league so that our presence will not influence their league. IE Their top 16 are all B's now, which is not an easy feat, so their top players will STILL be playing in that league in their tournament.
Due to ASL's unusual entry into the limelight, few top players will transition. And due to ASL's very carefully chosen opening start date, this league has become more like an auxiliary league/tournament for those players that may not necessarily ordinarily get the chance to make it into something big, so I just wanted to point this out. It's a very unique happenstance that it should work out like this, but fortunately, it has.
So to D+/C/C+ players, here's your chance to make it.
On April 01 2009 18:06 IdrA wrote: your writing style is very sophisticated have you considered joining mensa?
I'm very pleased you wrote that. It supports an argument I was making with a friend/colleague over at Bearing Point-New York. I'm going to send him this link via email.
I think he's responsible for jacking up my ad placement to $12/day on TL. It was $6/day and he mentioned earlier today he would try to outbid me to mess with me. And jumping from $6 to $12 is not strange at all in anyway even though it's suppose to be a progressive system where it goes up incrementally. ;-)
Frank, see?
Frank despises Mensa people. It's very humorous.
Once we had a conversation online over something relating to our mutual project we were working on, and out of the blue, he goes into a diatribe about Mensa members, like CLEAR out of the blue.
I think when he was younger, a bunch of Mensa people bullied him and stole his lunch money. ;-)
Frank, if you decide to respond on here, don't use my real name.
just by the style of how everything is written id say the person behind this is probably the same guy who made that clan x17 nintendo ds tourney a while back, that guy comes back like every 2-3 years makes a tourney and then dissapears again
On April 01 2009 11:35 messengerASL wrote: The league starts tomorrow (April 2nd). Once the league begins, players may still sign up after the start date by joining Team ASL led by ICCUP user ID "messengerASL." Check out the rules below if you want to compete. I just wanted to share my own thoughts on the league. The turnout is good/solid, thanks to every one helping to take this off the ground including friends over at ICCUP, ICCUP.Del and YellowAnt for editing/posting news and troubleshooting bugs, respectively.
This is a unique opportunity for those players who ordinarily wouldn't make it to the tournament round. Due to various events regarding the Starcraft foreigner scene and other good leagues like SC2GG going on, some of the outstanding players that you'd normally see won't be competing in this league. From what I can tell, there's currently only 3 of these outstanding players (that I recognize), Artosis / Xiaozi / Ranged, that have thus signed up so far. If I left your name out, forgive me, it is due to ignorance not malice.
So it's very conceivable that C/C+ ranked players will actually make it into the tournament phase, perhaps even D+ ranked players. So you all actually have a very good chance at winning a prize. This is going to be a grueling two weeks. This is a "short" league, comparatively. So, I recommend preparing yourself psychologically. It will be intense. Because of the makeup of the players, through hard work (playing excessive games), it may even be possible to make it to the tournament phase with hard work and a modicum of skill.
So in closing, good luck every one and good gaming!!!!
How am I an outstanding player? im like B+ rank barely T_T.
On April 01 2009 15:47 Divinek wrote: Dude this tourney has more cash than sc2gg, you bet the better players will be playing in this one
That will not happen.
Generally, people either have all the free time in the world or they don't. (this is from my own observations). For those who do, they'll have enough time to play in both leagues, very easily. For those who do not have all the free time in the world, they'll just generally stick to one event due to committing already and time constraints. And since we came out during the later part of SC2GG's season, we won't be impacting them.
SC2GG is far along enough now in their league so that our presence will not influence their league. IE Their top 16 are all B's now, which is not an easy feat, so their top players will STILL be playing in that league in their tournament.
Due to ASL's unusual entry into the limelight, few top players will transition. And due to ASL's very carefully chosen opening start date, this league has become more like an auxiliary league/tournament for those players that may not necessarily ordinarily get the chance to make it into something big, so I just wanted to point this out. It's a very unique happenstance that it should work out like this, but fortunately, it has.
So to D+/C/C+ players, here's your chance to make it.
What are you talking about? Its not like top foreigners have a packed schedule and limited practice time. I doubt they are spending all their hours practicing for SC2GG or any league. They will always have time to join another one as long as the match times do not conflict. As we've seen, guys can get to B in one day.
I don't know how you can be so sure players won't join your league if its legit. And no matter how many players in the SC2GG Top 16 join yours, it won't impact either league. Foreign players aren't pros with proleague commitments and stuff, it'll work out, they will have time.
"Due to ASL's unusual entry into the limelight, few players will transition." Can you stop writing things like this, are you trying to imitate the associated press or something?
messengerASL, how have you allowed the only tournament to be bear My glorious name to become one of ridicule and disgrace? Your imbecilic efforts at intelligent speech only prove that you are incapable of anything but the simplest of tasks. Since you have delivered your message, I will now be ruling this tournament directly. Come not between the dragon and his wrath. All further information will now come directly from your King.
On April 02 2009 03:17 iamtt1 wrote: and there are no rules against playing in iccup tournaments to rank up.. you should make a rule against this
On April 02 2009 04:27 iamtt1 wrote: lol so unorganized, and if you allow tournaments it wont reflect real ladder scores and skill levels but yea its your money and your rules i guess
How do tournaments quickly help you move up your ladder scores? Is there a bonus for winning them? If yes, to whom are they awarded (winner or all participants)?
On April 02 2009 04:27 iamtt1 wrote: lol so unorganized, and if you allow tournaments it wont reflect real ladder scores and skill levels but yea its your money and your rules i guess
How do tournaments quickly help you move up your ladder scores? Is there a bonus for winning them? If yes, to whom are they awarded (winner or all participants)?
SILENCE. The ruling has been made and is final. Stop trying to educate yourself on matters that are above you.
On April 02 2009 05:07 arew wrote: yeah thats pitty... and rule by playing against same person only 2games is weird too but ok.
There is a very good reason behind this. Let's say out of 100 games, you're only allowed to play a maximum of 2 games per 1 person and a minimum of 1 game per 1 person. This will ensure that minimally, 50% of your games are against unique/different people. Maximally, it means 100% are against unique/different people.
If we permit 4 games per 1 person, that number goes down drastically. Assume someone takes full advantage of that, then out of all 100 games, it's conceivable that they only played 25 different/unique people. This is clearly unacceptable. Granted, it's a low chance that someone would do that, but the thought was extremely unappealing to me.
This way, we can be sure that everyone in half of their games (minimally) have been against different/unique opponents are opponents that appear different. There is the chance people will play someone more than 2 times if the opponent decided to use another account. Obviously, you can't account for all scenarios, but this is an overall good rule.
This will ensure that people that make it to the tournament phase are in my opinion more 'rounded' in terms of skills due to the filter of more opponents.
So if you think about it, it's not that weird. It makes perfect sense.
On April 02 2009 04:27 iamtt1 wrote: lol so unorganized, and if you allow tournaments it wont reflect real ladder scores and skill levels but yea its your money and your rules i guess
How do tournaments quickly help you move up your ladder scores? Is there a bonus for winning them? If yes, to whom are they awarded (winner or all participants)?
theres usually a 50 or 75 point pay in for tournaments and the top 4 players get bonus points apart from the points they would get for the 1v1 games played from the tourney , for like a 32 player tournament with a 50 point buyin the payout is like 1000/700/400/400 which is insanely alot
players would be able to easily reach ranks which wouldnt even reflect their own skill level, for example someone could be like B with 7800 and play in one of these tours, with the 1v1 games + payout points hed easily pick up +1200 points and reach a- without even playing the competition, they would skip through the b+ a- rank players who are like all top amateur players and semi pros
but again i shouldnt be explaining this to you, if your going to host a tourney with such a prize pool you guys should know what your doing, and like someone posted you have contradictory rules like not being allowed to have more then 2 games against an opponent while you could end up playing 3 games vs the same opponent in a tournament
On April 02 2009 04:27 iamtt1 wrote: lol so unorganized, and if you allow tournaments it wont reflect real ladder scores and skill levels but yea its your money and your rules i guess
How do tournaments quickly help you move up your ladder scores? Is there a bonus for winning them? If yes, to whom are they awarded (winner or all participants)?
theres usually a 50 or 75 point pay in for tournaments and the top 4 players get bonus points apart from the points they would get for the 1v1 games played from the tourney , for like a 32 player tournament with a 50 point buyin the payout is like 1000/700/400/400 which is insanely alot
players would be able to easily reach ranks which wouldnt even reflect their own skill level, for example someone could be like B with 7800 and play in one of these tours, with the 1v1 games + payout points hed easily pick up +1200 points and reach a- without even playing the competition, they would skip through the b+ a- rank players who are like all top amateur players and semi pros
but again i shouldnt be explaining this to you, if your going to host a tourney with such a prize pool you guys should know what your doing
I am well aware of the rules and have made My ruling based on experience. It is best for the tournament. You would be wise to stop trying to change the rules to be in your benefit.
in my benifit? im trying to show you how to make your league more competitive instead of having players sitting on channels waiting for a tourney with lower skilled players open so they could rank up without even playing anyone
On April 02 2009 04:27 iamtt1 wrote: lol so unorganized, and if you allow tournaments it wont reflect real ladder scores and skill levels but yea its your money and your rules i guess
How do tournaments quickly help you move up your ladder scores? Is there a bonus for winning them? If yes, to whom are they awarded (winner or all participants)?
theres usually a 50 or 75 point pay in for tournaments and the top 4 players get bonus points apart from the points they would get for the 1v1 games played from the tourney , for like a 32 player tournament with a 50 point buyin the payout is like 1000/700/400/400 which is insanely alot
players would be able to easily reach ranks which wouldnt even reflect their own skill level, for example someone could be like B with 7800 and play in one of these tours, with the 1v1 games + payout points hed easily pick up +1200 points and reach a- without even playing the competition, they would skip through the b+ a- rank players who are like all top amateur players and semi pros
but again i shouldnt be explaining this to you, if your going to host a tourney with such a prize pool you guys should know what your doing, and like someone posted you have contradictory rules like not being allowed to have more then 2 games against an opponent while you could end up playing 3 games vs the same opponent in a tournament
We have a new rule then, no tournaments. I'll update the website accordingly.
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our community.
Half score one years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, created StarCraft. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But eleven years later, the slave still is not free. Eleven years later, the life of the slave is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. Eleven years later, the slave lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. Eleven years later, the slave is still languished in the corners of society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we've come to our community's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the compedium, they were signing a promissory note to which every member was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that our community has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, your community has given the members a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this community. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind our community of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of capitalism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of financial justice. Now is the time to lift our community from the quicksands of injustice to the solid rock of competition. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of My children.
It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Twenty Naught-Nine is not an end, but a beginning. And those who are now content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in StarCraft until the slave is granted his rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our community until the bright day of justice emerges.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the StarCraft dream.
I have a dream that one day this community will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all players are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of GosuGamers, the sons of former hackers and the sons of former tournament administrators will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even SC2GG, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little hackers will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their rank but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in ICCup, with its vicious hackers, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in ICCup little boys and girls will be able to join hands with little hacking boys and hacking girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every hacker shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Ansadi shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together!"
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to Ansadi with.
On April 02 2009 05:43 Teejing wrote: ah ok, good to know..
well tourney starts in 18min, i made and acc: asl-courven and requested to join the team.
Can i start from the start or do i have to wait until you approved me joining the clan?
No, tourney does not start in 18 minutes. I didn't realize the Javascript counter was using the computer local time. The League starts in roughly 7 hours from the time of this post. (Sorry)
On April 02 2009 05:48 King Ansadi wrote: I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our community.
Half score one years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, print StarCraft. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But eleven years later, the slave still is not free. Eleven years later, the life of the slave is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. Eleven years later, the slave lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. Eleven years later, the slave is still languished in the corners of society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we've come to our community's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the compedium, they were signing a promissory note to which every member was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that our community has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, your community has given the members a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this community. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind our community of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of capitalism. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of financial justice. Now is the time to lift our community from the quicksands of injustice to the solid rock of competition. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of My children.
It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Twenty Naught-Six is not an end, but a beginning. And those who are now content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in StarCraft until the slave is granted his rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our community until the bright day of justice emerges.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the StarCraft dream.
I have a dream that one day this community will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all players are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of GosuGamers, the sons of former hackers and the sons of former tournament administrators will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even SC2GG, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little hackers will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their rank but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in ICCup, with its vicious hackers, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in ICCup little boys and girls will be able to join hands with little hacking boys and hacking girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every hacker shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Ansadi shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together!"
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to Ansadi with.
Hmm, I was lulled into believing that nobody else would sign up. I didn't think 20+ people would sign up at the last moment like that and the league hasn't even started yet.
I guess the field is going to be more fierce than I thought. Regardless, I want to wish every one good luck again and if you run into each other online, it's good to say hello to one another. I hope you all try and make this a fun league. And I hope you don't BM each other or other players out there and represent ASL well/good.
Stay positive if you're having trouble climbing the ladder, and just focus on effort/learning.
I'm sorry. I just find it really unusual that someone who nobody really knows is willing to spend 700 dollars of their own money out of nowhere on a BW tournament. Of course it's not a big deal if people play their asses off and don't get paid, since not being paid to play a game beats not making money any other way.
On March 30 2009 11:14 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote: Can i commentate too?
I want to have this guy as my commentating partner. So he can tell me to shut up during the replays.
Well, it's like this.
I have 2 weeks to figure out how to do web casting. If I have time and set it up "in time", then we can do live broadcasting.
I need to hear some samples, if you could link me to some example videos, then we can proceed with installing software on your computer, etc.. to do live casting.
I just need to make sure you speak well and you don't sound like an 11 year old. That tends to piss the Brood War community off in general and will detract from the quality of the event if that's the case.
On April 02 2009 08:08 LordWeird wrote: I'm sorry. I just find it really unusual that someone who nobody really knows is willing to spend 700 dollars of their own money out of nowhere on a BW tournament. Of course it's not a big deal if people play their asses off and don't get paid, since not being paid to play a game beats not making money any other way.
I wish you the best of luck if this is legit.
So, I'm getting this through 2nd hand.
To quote Dawkins who quoted some other famous biologists out there that said it.
Perhaps the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. He was talking about science, but in general, I think that can be applied to humans/people.
I appreciate your post, but
It is legit. It's not a game. These are people's time. The situation is peculiar, but we're not exactly normal people in more aspects than are usually considered. The strangeness doesn't preclude it from being legit.
On March 30 2009 11:14 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote: Can i commentate too?
I want to have this guy as my commentating partner. So he can tell me to shut up during the replays.
Well, it's like this.
I have 2 weeks to figure out how to do web casting. If I have time and set it up "in time", then we can do live broadcasting.
I need to here some samples, if you could link me to some example videos, then we can proceed with installing software on your computer, etc.. to do live casting.
TBH if you want the best commentators who are willing to do events like this, you should go to SC2GG and recruit them. Please don't put SiegeTanksandBlueGoo on any commentating team you might organize.
Sounds good. I am probably not the best pick, but I would like to leave some options open anyways, I have some free time lately. Might be some fun. I'll whip up something and send it.
I just wanted to say that if you get online and see that every one else is already so far ahead record wise in the league, don't be too discouraged. The world is round so, essentially, half the field of players play when the other half is asleep at any given time. We're already seeing some very strong players.
I'm surprised there aren't more Koreans. Hmmm, I guess the prize money isn't big enough to draw them in.
On April 02 2009 14:00 messengerASL wrote: I just wanted to say that if you get online and see that every one else is already so far ahead record wise in the league, don't be too discouraged. The world is round so, essentially, half the field of players play when the other half is asleep at any given time. We're already seeing some very strong players.
I'm surprised there aren't more Koreans. Hmmm, I guess the prize money isn't big enough to draw them in.
Did you advertise on any Korean sites? Did you post the news in Korean? How do you expect them to know about it?
On April 02 2009 14:00 messengerASL wrote: I just wanted to say that if you get online and see that every one else is already so far ahead record wise in the league, don't be too discouraged. The world is round so, essentially, half the field of players play when the other half is asleep at any given time. We're already seeing some very strong players.
I'm surprised there aren't more Koreans. Hmmm, I guess the prize money isn't big enough to draw them in.
Yikes, why would you even allow Koreans in the tournament? It opens the door for some B-teamer to say, "nice $400, I'll take it."
has nothing to do with being a racist. iSCOUT did you even keep up with the past TSL? there was a reason for the exclusion of koreans, i dont think the TSL would have been as great as it was if koreans were allowed to play. Excluding koreans from events like this only helps expand the foreign starcraft scene, and im pretty sure koreans have enough leagues or events like this of their own to keep them content..
On April 02 2009 15:41 iSCOUT4u wrote: Don't be a racist
yeah, you have no idea what it must be like for a korean player to have an opportunity to destroy us and take the prize money totally blocked off. truly, i would grieve for them if asl did it. tsl did and it was like TL-sanctioned apartheid.
I've debated this Korean playing in general for several years now, since their initial influx into Battle.net. Trust me, when I say I've put a lot of thought into this area. I understand both sides of the argument in regards to why it is good/bad for Koreans to play in leagues like ASL. I truly do understand both sides of the arguments. Both sides make very valid points.
Ultimately for me, what it comes down to is this. It's through reasoning, that I think this is a good idea.
This isn't a main reason, but it's a good reason, so I'll start off with this.
Korean B-team players don't make more money than their A-team counter parts. They get paid, true. But they put in a lot of freaking hours to get that pay. The salary range is $20K to $150K from B to A team players. The vast majority don't get over $60K a year. Here is the crux of it however. If you're around $20K-$40K a year and you're putting in 15-20 hours of gaming a day, then that's worst than like working at McDonalds; that's factoring exchange rates.
This next part is my main reason for allowing Koreans to compete.
I have a very serious preposition that I would like to make.
We have an under developed E-Sport scene because of such blocking.
I don't believe causality is the other way around. We've tried the other route; it hasn't improved Westerner's E-Sport scene greatly. It's generally one time events that happen annually. That's unacceptable. There's no league that happens on televised TV. That's unacceptable. There not that many e-sports team that provide "salary" pay to their members. That's unacceptable.
For all intents and purposes in this analogy, I am the governing body, because I'm governing this league.
I think if we change the perception of Koreans are generally better, even if it's true, then we can build momentum in building a more robust foreigner scene. Trust me when I say within the next 5-10 years, we will have a scene similar to the Koreans' scene now.
The ASL will create that future for Western players or generally known as (foreign players). We will have televised leagues/games ON TV within 5 to 10 years. King Ansadi will try to make that happen.
This isn't a main reason, but it's a good reason, so I'll start off with this.
Korean B-team players don't make that much money than their A-team counter parts. They get paid, true. But they put in a lot of freaking hours to get that pay. The salary range is $20K to $150K from B to A team players. The vast majority don't get over $60K a year. Here is the crux of it however. If you're around $20K-$40K a year and you're putting in 15-20 hours of gaming a day, then that's worst than like working at McDonalds; that's factoring exchange rates.
This is my 'main' reason for allowing Koreans to compete.
It's generally one time events that happen annually
I have a very serious preposition that I would like to make.
its amazing how you fit so many words around such little content. im not sure if you actually said anything in that entire post.
how would letting koreans in do anything to improve the western esports scene? if any pros actually did play it, and they wont, it wouldnt do anything to help foreigners. the reason western esports is underdeveloped is because of the lack of money which stems from the lack of popularity. if you actually have gotten some money handing it over to korean players isnt gonna do anything to attract the attention of western sponsors, which is what would actually help esports grow.
you arent gonna change the perception of koreans being better because it is true. and its not going to change until theres some support for foreigners to practice as much as koreans, and the way to do that is to make prize money available to foreigners to motivate them to play more. forcing them to compete with progamers for the little money that is available is not the way to do that.
and, by the way, you're handing out 700 dollars. tsl had 10 grand and wasnt half as pretentious or as annoying as you, and people had alot more respect for and interest in them. take a page out of their book.
On April 02 2009 19:21 IdrA wrote: its amazing how you fit so many words around such little content. im not sure if you actually said anything in that entire post.
how would letting koreans in do anything to improve the western esports scene? if any pros actually did play it, and they wont, it wouldnt do anything to help foreigners. the reason western esports is underdeveloped is because of the lack of money which stems from the lack of popularity. if you actually have gotten some money handing it over to korean players isnt gonna do anything to attract the attention of western sponsors, which is what would actually help esports grow.
you arent gonna change the perception of koreans being better because it is true. and its not going to change until theres some support for foreigners to practice as much as koreans, and the way to do that is to make prize money available to foreigners to motivate them to play more. forcing them to compete with progamers for the little money that is available is not the way to do that.
and, by the way, you're handing out 700 dollars. tsl had 10 grand and wasnt half as pretentious or as annoying as you, and people had alot more respect for and interest in them. take a page out of their book.
What do you mean it wouldn't help it? I think exposure and making a fanbase is more important at this point in time than getting some frequent foreign 'pros', having sponsors, or - and this is the result of having money in the scene - having big names in leagues for people to follow. The way I see it you are going to struggle for the time being to get a lot of money in it, and the same old people are going to the tourneys to get the money and scrape what living they can off of SC while they envy the Koreans.
Having notable Korean players, who are arguably more popular amongst SC fans than the top foreigners, playing in tourneys may not attract the serious competitive players because they know their chances of benefiting from a cash prize are reduced significantly. What it will do is pull in some of the newer people to the scene and maybe encourage them to enter tournaments - any that win money while at this level will be completely stoked moreso than seasoned gamers. I know I'd want to play if I had the chance to come up against the Koreans. Not saying that this kind of prize would attract progamers, of course, as this is probably pocket change to many of them, but even the B-team players may have this effect. If a tournament has the reputation of sporting Koreans in the lineup it will be considered the "best" competition and hence should attract attention from the *fans* instead of just the people out there to make money.
Don't mistake enthusiasm and proactive attitude for pretentiousness. TSL got the respect because of an established community and money backing, and it was run differently. Just because the way in which messengerASL conducts himself and his league shits you, and let's face it - who can think of anything in the last 6 months that hasn't pissed you off somehow?, doesn't mean that everyone finds it annoying so the point you are trying to make is not as robust as you act as though it is.
On April 02 2009 19:21 IdrA wrote: its amazing how you fit so many words around such little content. im not sure if you actually said anything in that entire post.
how would letting koreans in do anything to improve the western esports scene? if any pros actually did play it, and they wont, it wouldnt do anything to help foreigners. the reason western esports is underdeveloped is because of the lack of money which stems from the lack of popularity. if you actually have gotten some money handing it over to korean players isnt gonna do anything to attract the attention of western sponsors, which is what would actually help esports grow.
you arent gonna change the perception of koreans being better because it is true. and its not going to change until theres some support for foreigners to practice as much as koreans, and the way to do that is to make prize money available to foreigners to motivate them to play more. forcing them to compete with progamers for the little money that is available is not the way to do that.
and, by the way, you're handing out 700 dollars. tsl had 10 grand and wasnt half as pretentious or as annoying as you, and people had alot more respect for and interest in them. take a page out of their book.
What do you mean it wouldn't help it? I think exposure and making a fanbase is more important at this point in time than getting some frequent foreign 'pros', having sponsors, or - and this is the result of having money in the scene - having big names in leagues for people to follow. The way I see it you are going to struggle for the time being to get a lot of money in it, and the same old people are going to the tourneys to get the money and scrape what living they can off of SC while they envy the Koreans.
Having notable Korean players, who are arguably more popular amongst SC fans than the top foreigners, playing in tourneys may not attract the serious competitive players because they know their chances of benefiting from a cash prize are reduced significantly. What it will do is pull in some of the newer people to the scene and maybe encourage them to enter tournaments - any that win money while at this level will be completely stoked moreso than seasoned gamers. I know I'd want to play if I had the chance to come up against the Koreans. Not saying that this kind of prize would attract progamers, of course, as this is probably pocket change to many of them, but even the B-team players may have this effect. If a tournament has the reputation of sporting Koreans in the lineup it will be considered the "best" competition and hence should attract attention from the *fans* instead of just the people out there to make money.
the thing is even the very best foreigners would be hard pressed to place in a tournament with real progamer competition. (just look at wcg, even with only 3 of them you have to pray for lucky brackets to get a foreigner in top 3) you arent going to be encouraging new blood. sure people will want to play just to get a chance to play with progamers, but its not gonna be a competition. and the only way the koreans themselves really draw much attention is if theyre relatively high profile, and you're not gonna get A teamers for 400$. so basically you're just throwing money at whichever b teamer no ones heard of or cares about decides to waste some practice time for a little extra cash.
alot of the fan interest in tsl and other foreigner tournaments is *because* its only foreigners. jf is not as good as bisu. people dont care. if they want to watch the best theyre going to watch korean tournaments.
Don't mistake enthusiasm and proactive attitude for pretentiousness. TSL got the respect because of an established community and money backing, and it was run differently. Just because the way in which messengerASL conducts himself and his league shits you, and let's face it - who can think of anything in the last 6 months that hasn't pissed you off somehow?, doesn't mean that everyone finds it annoying so the point you are trying to make is not as robust as you act as though it is.
quite a few people have told him he acts like a douchebag and that his league would be much more well received if he were managing it intelligently, and i think thats pretty hard to deny. sc2gg has bigger names playing for less prize money.
Again, SC2GG has an entire community behind them - this is just one guy who has (apparently) never tried this before. However, your points are taken. I am thinking in the long term, though, that Koreans will be required in the foreigner scene if it is ever going to flourish. When not all countries are represented strongly and even then only by a few players it is going to be hard to draw an audience from those areas. The whole standard of play needs to raise - people like to see their countrymen do well and high-level entertaining play where everyone has a chance - before you can draw solid fans and international attention.
At the moment it is just wanting the non-Koreans to represent, deep down everyone jumps on the bandwagon of any non-Korean competing with them even if they are not from their own country because it is the next best thing without someone from their own country to barrack for. In my opinion this is not a strong enough foundation for a large, money-packed international eSports scene. One reason why wc3 is more international is because in most countries you can follow a couple of half-decent players from theirown nation (albeit struggling to keep afloat amongst a sea of koreans/chinese).
Anyway I am dragging this out a bit but I hope I made a point in there somewhere.
This isn't a main reason, but it's a good reason, so I'll start off with this.
Korean B-team players don't make that much money than their A-team counter parts. They get paid, true. But they put in a lot of freaking hours to get that pay. The salary range is $20K to $150K from B to A team players. The vast majority don't get over $60K a year. Here is the crux of it however. If you're around $20K-$40K a year and you're putting in 15-20 hours of gaming a day, then that's worst than like working at McDonalds; that's factoring exchange rates.
This is my 'main' reason for allowing Koreans to compete.
I have a very serious preposition that I would like to make.
its amazing how you fit so many words around such little content. im not sure if you actually said anything in that entire post.
how would letting koreans in do anything to improve the western esports scene? if any pros actually did play it, and they wont, it wouldnt do anything to help foreigners. the reason western esports is underdeveloped is because of the lack of money which stems from the lack of popularity. if you actually have gotten some money handing it over to korean players isnt gonna do anything to attract the attention of western sponsors, which is what would actually help esports grow.
you arent gonna change the perception of koreans being better because it is true. and its not going to change until theres some support for foreigners to practice as much as koreans, and the way to do that is to make prize money available to foreigners to motivate them to play more. forcing them to compete with progamers for the little money that is available is not the way to do that.
and, by the way, you're handing out 700 dollars. tsl had 10 grand and wasnt half as pretentious or as annoying as you, and people had alot more respect for and interest in them. take a page out of their book.
I don't particularly want to get into a long discussion over this, but where is the pretentiousness? I haven't claimed that this was a big event. I've let a lot of people know about this event, but that's not the same thing as claiming it's a big, comparatively with TSL event.
Pretentious: 1: characterized by pretension: as a: making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) b: expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature
I believe you're misusing the word. I haven't made any excessive claims of value or standing. I've continuously expressed that I was only a messenger. I've continuously kept my identity private/hidden, so I can't possibly care about my own personal standing in the community. I haven't claimed to be important or of any value to any one.
Maybe you mean to use another word? Because it's confusing the hell out of me, because that is not a nice word. If you think I'm annoying, then I'm sorry. I don't think that's my problem; I think that's your problem. You're going to have to get use to other people not thinking the same way as you. And additionally, you're going to have to get use to minority opinion. My view points are not the same as the majority. Insulting me and re-iterating a view point I've seen for years now is not going to change my opinion. I understand your thoughts already. I've seen that type of reasoning for a long time now.
I'm not trying to be annoying. You're thinking this is some sort of purposeful thing, that I'm trying to spite you. I'm not. I'm not trying to piss people off. If people are getting pissed off because of my words, then it's their fault. I'm rather cool/cold emotionally on this end writing out things as I see them.
Why do you think it's unpopular in western e-sports?
I'm actually trying to make this business-worthy, so I spend a lot of time thinking about this. Please calm down. You're not trying to monetize this, I am. It's different outlook.
On April 02 2009 20:17 iCCup.deL wrote: Again, SC2GG has an entire community behind them - this is just one guy who has (apparently) never tried this before.
none of the competitive players are part of their community though, no one was playing before they announced a prize and then basically every top foreigner signed up.
However, your points are taken. I am thinking in the long term, though, that Koreans will be required in the foreigner scene if it is ever going to flourish. When not all countries are represented strongly and even then only by a few players it is going to be hard to draw an audience from those areas. The whole standard of play needs to raise - people like to see their countrymen do well and high-level entertaining play where everyone has a chance - before you can draw solid fans and international attention.
but the koreans fans already have their starleagues and proleagues and are unlikely to jump to lower quality leagues through a language barrier, and encouraging koreans to play isnt gonna do anything to draw players from other countries.
At the moment it is just wanting the non-Koreans to represent, deep down everyone jumps on the bandwagon of any non-Korean competing with them even if they are not from their own country because it is the next best thing without someone from their own country to barrack for. In my opinion this is not a strong enough foundation for a large, money-packed international eSports scene. One reason why wc3 is more international is because in most countries you can follow a couple of half-decent players from theirown nation (albeit struggling to keep afloat amongst a sea of koreans/chinese).
Anyway I am dragging this out a bit but I hope I made a point in there somewhere.
well yes but like i said before the way to develop those foreign players that fans can root for is to have a reason for foreign players to practice as much as progamers. actually reaching that level without coming to korea is pretty impractical, but in theory at least. you simply cant compete with people who practice literally 5 times as much as you in a more productive environment than you, and you cant mimic that setup unless theres money to back you up, because you cant practice 12 hours a day and hold a job. theres little enough money amongst foreigners, letting koreans in on it does nothing to help that, and having the koreans in the tournament isnt going to make the foreigners better players or draw more money, for the reasons i already said.
This isn't a main reason, but it's a good reason, so I'll start off with this.
Korean B-team players don't make that much money than their A-team counter parts. They get paid, true. But they put in a lot of freaking hours to get that pay. The salary range is $20K to $150K from B to A team players. The vast majority don't get over $60K a year. Here is the crux of it however. If you're around $20K-$40K a year and you're putting in 15-20 hours of gaming a day, then that's worst than like working at McDonalds; that's factoring exchange rates.
This is my 'main' reason for allowing Koreans to compete.
It's generally one time events that happen annually
I have a very serious preposition that I would like to make.
its amazing how you fit so many words around such little content. im not sure if you actually said anything in that entire post.
how would letting koreans in do anything to improve the western esports scene? if any pros actually did play it, and they wont, it wouldnt do anything to help foreigners. the reason western esports is underdeveloped is because of the lack of money which stems from the lack of popularity. if you actually have gotten some money handing it over to korean players isnt gonna do anything to attract the attention of western sponsors, which is what would actually help esports grow.
you arent gonna change the perception of koreans being better because it is true. and its not going to change until theres some support for foreigners to practice as much as koreans, and the way to do that is to make prize money available to foreigners to motivate them to play more. forcing them to compete with progamers for the little money that is available is not the way to do that.
and, by the way, you're handing out 700 dollars. tsl had 10 grand and wasnt half as pretentious or as annoying as you, and people had alot more respect for and interest in them. take a page out of their book.
I don't particularly want to get into a long discussion over this, but where is the pretentiousness? I haven't claimed that this was a big event. I've let a lot of people know about this event, but that's not the same thing as claiming it's a big, comparatively with TSL event.
Pretentious: 1: characterized by pretension: as a: making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) b: expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature
I believe you're misusing the word. I haven't made any excessive claims of value or standing. I've continuously expressed that I was only a messenger. I've continuously kept my identity private/hidden, so I can't possibly care about my own personal standing in the community. I haven't claimed to be important or of any value to any one.
The ASL will create that future for Western players or generally known as (foreign players). We will have televised leagues/games ON TV within 5 to 10 years. King Ansadi will try to make that happen
seriously?
Maybe you mean to use another word? Because it's confusing the hell out of me, because that is not a nice word. If you think I'm annoying, then I'm sorry. I don't think that's my problem; I think that's your problem. You're going to have to get use to other people not thinking the same way as you. And additionally, you're going to have to get use to minority opinion. My view points are not the same as the majority. Insulting me and re-iterating a view point I've seen for years now is not going to change my opinion. I understand your thoughts already. I've seen that type of reasoning for a long time now.
you dont have views. you prattle on about how this is new and big and different and you're a well informed benevolent overlord guiding the community towards future riches. youve yet to say anything of value or post anything of any kind of content about any of those big ideas, or give any reasons for anyone to believe a single word you say.
I'm not trying to be annoying. You're thinking this some sort of purposeful thing that I'm trying to spite you. I'm not. I'm not trying to piss people off. If people are getting pissed off because of my words, then it's their fault. I'm rather cool/cold emotionally on this end writing out things as I see them.
hardly, you're harmless. i just think you're clueless and that if you actually have a source of sponsorship money that you're essentially wasting it.
Why do you think it's unpopular in western e-sports?
I'm actually trying to make this business-worthy, so I spend a lot of time thinking about this. Please calm down. You're not trying to monetize this, I am. It's 'different outlook. You want guys like me to be right.
is that why you didnt address anything i said about your 'ideas on esports'?
Perhaps there needs to be insentive further down the track to draw Korean (ex-?)players and coaches out of Korea once there is money in it. Learning English is becoming a bigger part of Korean education so the language barrier should not be so severe. Anyway who cares let's just sit back and enjoy the tourney as best we can.
Ultimately, your way of thinking has been the prevalent way for 8 years now. It's not working. Every one thinks like you. I'm going to think differently on why this is broken.
Accept it or don't.
I'm a nobody. I'm just a messenger. Please calm down.
Ultimately, your way of thinking has been the prevalent way for 8 years now. It's not working. Every one thinks like you. I'm going to think differently on why this is broken.
Accept it or don't.
think differently how? by being illogical? gl with that the reason its not working is because the culture in western countries is simply not willing to embrace esports yet, especially for an 11 year old strategy game. in an environment like that you are not going to be able to set up something like the koreans have. our 'way of thinking' is not responsible for that. being different solely for the sake of being different is a waste of time, as you obviously have no logical reason to do so or you would have already explained it to us instead of posting a bunch of fluff.
why are you doing the messenger thing anyway? 99% of the time you post as if you are the authority behind this and the architect of some kind of grand scheme to bring esports into the limelight, and then you randomly mention that you're 'only the messenger' seriously, dumb shit like that is the reason people think this is a joke.
On April 02 2009 20:42 IdrA wrote: why are you doing the messenger thing anyway? 99% of the time you post as if you are the authority behind this and the architect of some kind of grand scheme to bring esports into the limelight, and then you randomly mention that you're 'only the messenger' seriously, dumb shit like that is the reason people think this is a joke.
You'll have your essay by the end of the day. Please calm down. It's easier to ask questions and make accusations than it is to answer them.
For those reading, this is the original LastShadow. LastShadow is Idra 2.0
Already, I can feel my chest clenching up. Bare in mind as I write this essay, that there is a very high chance, that I've thought more about this than you.
On April 02 2009 20:36 IdrA wrote: why draw out koreans? you were just talking about how fanbases are more motivated when theyre rooting for players from their own countries.
and the language barrier would definitely be huge.
Don't be ridiculous, you can't tell me that you consider Korean coaches would influence whether people would like a player or not, and ex-players would add more competition and knowledge. I am not talking about importing 1000 Koreans to play, any that happened to get involved in the foreign scene would contribute valuabl knowledge and provide legitimate competition and while they'd have strong fans they'd still be targets for scalping by foreign players. Koreans playing for others' countries certainly would still demand the same support as home-grown players would.
Maybe I didn't make it clear, but the Korean players and coaches would be playing for/coaching another country that they may reside in - otherwise they may be special invites as Koreans, I guess.
On April 02 2009 20:42 IdrA wrote: why are you doing the messenger thing anyway? 99% of the time you post as if you are the authority behind this and the architect of some kind of grand scheme to bring esports into the limelight, and then you randomly mention that you're 'only the messenger' seriously, dumb shit like that is the reason people think this is a joke.
You'll have your essay by the end of the day. Please calm down. It's easier to ask questions and make accusations than it is to answer them.
For those reading, this is the original LastShadow. LastShadow is Idra 2.0
Already, I can feel my chest clenching up. Bare in mind as I write this essay, that there is a very high chance, that I've thought more about this than you.
quality > quantity i cant believe you actually told everyone who you are you realize this makes you look batshit insane right? all the gg.net stuff?
On April 02 2009 20:42 IdrA wrote: why are you doing the messenger thing anyway? 99% of the time you post as if you are the authority behind this and the architect of some kind of grand scheme to bring esports into the limelight, and then you randomly mention that you're 'only the messenger' seriously, dumb shit like that is the reason people think this is a joke.
You'll have your essay by the end of the day. Please calm down. It's easier to ask questions and make accusations than it is to answer them.
For those reading, this is the original LastShadow. LastShadow is Idra 2.0
Already, I can feel my chest clenching up. Bare in mind as I write this essay, that there is a very high chance, that I've thought more about this than you.
quality > quantity i cant believe you actually told everyone who you are you realize this makes you look batshit insane right? all the gg.net stuff?
Again, you've misread what I wrote. YOU IDRA are the original LastShadow.
I've dealt with you before in the past is what I was saying. I was attempting to share with you that you've caused me grief/duress in the past, very similarly to how LastShadow has caused me recently.
On April 02 2009 20:36 IdrA wrote: why draw out koreans? you were just talking about how fanbases are more motivated when theyre rooting for players from their own countries.
and the language barrier would definitely be huge.
Don't be ridiculous, you can't tell me that you consider Korean coaches would influence whether people would like a player or not, and ex-players would add more competition and knowledge. I am not talking about importing 1000 Koreans to play, any that happened to get involved in the foreign scene would contribute valuabl knowledge and provide legitimate competition and while they'd have strong fans they'd still be targets for scalping by foreign players. Koreans playing for others' countries certainly would still demand the same support as home-grown players would.
Maybe I didn't make it clear, but the Korean players and coaches would be playing for/coaching another country that they may reside in - otherwise they may be special invites as Koreans, I guess.
uh ya it wouldnt really have any effect 'practice more' is not some kind of cultural secret only the koreans can bestow upon us mere mortals
On April 02 2009 20:42 IdrA wrote: why are you doing the messenger thing anyway? 99% of the time you post as if you are the authority behind this and the architect of some kind of grand scheme to bring esports into the limelight, and then you randomly mention that you're 'only the messenger' seriously, dumb shit like that is the reason people think this is a joke.
You'll have your essay by the end of the day. Please calm down. It's easier to ask questions and make accusations than it is to answer them.
For those reading, this is the original LastShadow. LastShadow is Idra 2.0
Already, I can feel my chest clenching up. Bare in mind as I write this essay, that there is a very high chance, that I've thought more about this than you.
quality > quantity i cant believe you actually told everyone who you are you realize this makes you look batshit insane right? all the gg.net stuff?
Again, you've misread what I wrote. YOU IDRA are the original LastShadow.
I've dealt with you before in the past is what I was saying.
pardon me, your illiteracy just makes it hard to understand you at times that and the fact that you actually are lastshadow
On April 02 2009 20:42 IdrA wrote: why are you doing the messenger thing anyway? 99% of the time you post as if you are the authority behind this and the architect of some kind of grand scheme to bring esports into the limelight, and then you randomly mention that you're 'only the messenger' seriously, dumb shit like that is the reason people think this is a joke.
You'll have your essay by the end of the day. Please calm down. It's easier to ask questions and make accusations than it is to answer them.
For those reading, this is the original LastShadow. LastShadow is Idra 2.0
Already, I can feel my chest clenching up. Bare in mind as I write this essay, that there is a very high chance, that I've thought more about this than you.
quality > quantity i cant believe you actually told everyone who you are you realize this makes you look batshit insane right? all the gg.net stuff?
Again, you've misread what I wrote. YOU IDRA are the original LastShadow.
I've dealt with you before in the past is what I was saying.
pardon me, your illiteracy just makes it hard to understand you at times that and the fact that you actually are lastshadow
Nope, I am not LastShadow. I'll have a thoroughly written essay for you in 24 hours.
On April 02 2009 21:03 IdrA wrote: uh ya it wouldnt really have any effect 'practice more' is not some kind of cultural secret only the koreans can bestow upon us mere mortals
Maybe you're right, as we may infer from your recent amazing gaming results.
Again you're trolling - you answered yourself in your above response to the messenger. Quality over quantity is what I am getting at with the coaching and peer experience to be shared in this situation.
On April 02 2009 21:03 IdrA wrote: uh ya it wouldnt really have any effect 'practice more' is not some kind of cultural secret only the koreans can bestow upon us mere mortals
Maybe you're right, as we may infe from your recent amazing gaming results.
Again you're trolling - you answered yourself in your above response to the messenger. Quality over quantity is what I am getting at with the coaching and peer experience to be shared in this situation.
dont use words when you dont know what they mean
the reason foreigners arent as good as koreans is they dont practice half as much. anything that can be learned from koreans isnt gonna be learned through the language barrier. and all of that is entirely irrelevant seeing as letting koreans play in a tournament has nothing to do with some kind of esports exchange program.
On April 02 2009 21:03 IdrA wrote: uh ya it wouldnt really have any effect 'practice more' is not some kind of cultural secret only the koreans can bestow upon us mere mortals
Maybe you're right, as we may infer from your recent amazing gaming results.
Again you're trolling - you answered yourself in your above response to the messenger. Quality over quantity is what I am getting at with the coaching and peer experience to be shared in this situation.
dont use words when you dont know what they mean
the reason foreigners arent as good as koreans is they dont practice half as much. anything that can be learned from koreans isnt gonna be learned through the language barrier. and all of that is entirely irrelevant seeing as letting koreans play in a tournament has nothing to do with some kind of esports exchange program.
And what word is that, perchance?
I don't believe you for a second, what you are claiming is counter-intuitive and in all likelihood bullshit so you can try and win your weekly TL argument. Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, the number of practice hours has a huge impact but you can't make me believe that a nation where this game is played as a sport, broadcast, analysed to this degree, and has huge prizepools cannot offer anything to the foreign scene through coaching. Why would teams have coaches and seek advice from peers if this was the case? Sure they practice a lot as a sporting team will do to get a set play perfect but that alone is never the whole story and you are just being stubborn in saying this is not the case.
Like I said, the language barrierwill thin. Additionally, unless you yourself speak fluent Korean (the answer to which I am not sure of) you can not know for a fact that there is nothing the Koreans can present to foreign players to improve their play. The whole idea of practice is knowing what you are doing before you actually proceed to engrain it in your repertoire.
Reopening this as the legitimacy is....well still ridiculous but a bit more credible. messangerASL has agreed not to post unless its pressing to the tournament itself.
OK, guess I will help start the thread off on the right track, away from the accusations and here just for people who are interested or participating in the league. You don't have to come to the thread if you don't want. n_n
The Ansadi SL will be webcast live from the Semi-Finals onwards subject to consent from the participants and FighterReplays will be housing the ASL replays now and in the future tourneys.
For those wondering, the $1000 cash prize is distributed as below:
SC2GG will not support this person or this league, and you should not either. He's not a good person. I've personally dealt with this person a very long time in the past, and after a very short while it became a very sour experience.
There are very good odds that he only created this tournament when he saw SC2GG's tournament succeed (look at the timing, he's this sort of person..), and since he does have money and a desperate desire to be accepted into the SC world somehow, he thinks he can buy success despite his obvious social and organizational inadequecies. He isn't pretending to act this way, this is what he's really like, all the time.
To TL - I apologize if this is not a post you want to see. Feel free to delete it if you don't want it here, or have chosen to support this person, I do not want to step on your sites decisions, but I feel it's for the good of everyone. Besides, I know how much you all love drama, right?
it doesn't really matter, just that ppl will only play in this tournament because of the money and that's it. he won't have an appropriate coverage, only some inexperienced casters from this thread (apparently the first who said "let me do it!") and all that because he, in his ignorance, thinks he could beat sc2gg with that.
the only surplus this event will produce is replays.
If he pays 1000 dollars to the players and they play good games then of course that's a big benefit.
But if this is true then hasn't he been lying about a secret sponsor? And how likely does that make it that he's going to be paying the price money? But if his spite against SC2gg makes him drop 1000 dollars into the community of course that's not the worst thing that can happen.
On April 06 2009 22:18 Diomedes wrote: He founded SC2gg and sold it to you after it didn't become bigger than TL after a month?
And now he is paying the community 1000 and more dollars out of his own pocket just to have a more sucessful tournament than SC2gg has?
Ok diomedes. Please just take a step back from that posting key. Your post reeks of Bias and just of implicit wording there it is evident that you hold some baggage against radivel and/or his argument. If you plan on posting/ arguing please structure an argument out more clearly. But hey! i don't judge. I think Rad is explictly and implicitly saying that the $1000 will not be delivered and the entire ASL will really just end up a mess for those who get caught up in it.
I'd be really dissapointed if This thread de-railed into TL/Sc2gg flame and ultimately got no-where (we've had enough of them already). I think ultimately it is up to TL staff to finally decide whether to back this (i guess backing it is essentially doing nothing) or Explicitly state they will no longer support it (Close the thread and do nothing (it's win-win here for staff <3 )). My personal opinion would be to wait until Mr. ASL posts again and what his reply entails before coming to a conclusion.
I guess you could simply read this and say; who cares? it's not hurting anyone and i guess i have to agree with you so mabye it's ultimately up to the players. However, on a personal level i joined the community through Sc2gg and as such i do contain a Bias towards opinions made by Radivel and select staff (i'll just put that out there right now)
On April 06 2009 22:32 Kennigit wrote: lol wtf we aren't backing this pos. That being said if someone wants to run a tourny and pay people thats their perogative.
Fair Enough. I stand told off. I'll go back to lurking.
What? I hold something against Radival? lol Didn't read anything else you posted. You are someone from SC2gg and afraid of backlash agaisnt SC2gg if Gravidian doesn't end up paying the price money?
Haha I now just read back and saw messengerASL ask for commentators. Then someone immediately tells him to go to SC2gg. lol
On April 06 2009 22:36 Diomedes wrote: What? I hold something against Radival? lol Didn't read anything else you posted.
"Didn't read anything else you posted. "
Do i even need to respond?
You took it to personally mate. i guess i could've written <insert poster here> but hey! you were the first person that i felt put bias before content.
On April 06 2009 22:36 Diomedes wrote:You are someone from SC2gg and afraid of backlash agaisnt SC2gg if Gravidian doesn't end up paying the price money?
K yeah theres no way we are having a part in this garbage especially with the parties involved. The money will probably get paid out. i just want no part of it.
No one fucks with sc2gg except us. This is the only time i have ever felt defensive about them cause i have at least some of the backstory on the bullshit pulled lol. Go fuck off.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.ansadi.com/images/banner.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.ansadi.com/images/fight.png)
