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On March 18 2009 00:26 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2009 23:57 p4NDemik wrote:On March 17 2009 22:10 konadora wrote:On March 17 2009 21:56 p4NDemik wrote:
Battle Royal is too concepty for PL in my opinion And since when did Proleague confine themselves to a certain 'style' of maps? Sure, they may always dish out the similar maps, but that's the reason why I find it less exciting than the OSL. OSL keeps on pumping out new and exciting maps, for example, Demon's Forest, Plasma, Tears of the Moon. Now, if Proleague integrated such maps, I'm sure PL will be just as exciting, if not, even more than the individual leagues. Starleagues can get away with more concepty (and oftentimes imbalanced) maps because the players have almost no control over who they play in the next round after the group selection shows and once the league is in progress. Maps like Plasma succeed in stimulating interesting play in Starleagues because Zergs, Terrans, and Protosses all have to play on them. Stick these same concept maps in PL and they fail hard. Why? Because the coaches have total control over who plays on them. And because these maps have balance issues almost 100% of the time, you'll see coaches send out one race on a concept map, and then everyone begins to dread every game that is played on that map. Seriously the novelty wears off fast when all you see is TvT's or ZvZ's on a map. So I welcome concept maps like Battle Royal in Starleagues, but for God's sake keep it out of PL. Thats why PL (kespa) should make new system how players selected to those maps. For example, teams choose 4 players (ace match stays coaches choosing) and then kespa randomly puts players both sides to different maps. Yes there might still be mirrors and/or unlucky matchups but this method still gives time to player to practice specific map.
ya cuz its awesome when players are forced to deal with imbalance
look at how much everyone is loving tears of the moon
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United States13896 Posts
On March 18 2009 00:26 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2009 23:57 p4NDemik wrote:On March 17 2009 22:10 konadora wrote:On March 17 2009 21:56 p4NDemik wrote:
Battle Royal is too concepty for PL in my opinion And since when did Proleague confine themselves to a certain 'style' of maps? Sure, they may always dish out the similar maps, but that's the reason why I find it less exciting than the OSL. OSL keeps on pumping out new and exciting maps, for example, Demon's Forest, Plasma, Tears of the Moon. Now, if Proleague integrated such maps, I'm sure PL will be just as exciting, if not, even more than the individual leagues. Starleagues can get away with more concepty (and oftentimes imbalanced) maps because the players have almost no control over who they play in the next round after the group selection shows and once the league is in progress. Maps like Plasma succeed in stimulating interesting play in Starleagues because Zergs, Terrans, and Protosses all have to play on them. Stick these same concept maps in PL and they fail hard. Why? Because the coaches have total control over who plays on them. And because these maps have balance issues almost 100% of the time, you'll see coaches send out one race on a concept map, and then everyone begins to dread every game that is played on that map. Seriously the novelty wears off fast when all you see is TvT's or ZvZ's on a map. So I welcome concept maps like Battle Royal in Starleagues, but for God's sake keep it out of PL. Thats why PL (kespa) should make new system how players selected to those maps. For example, teams choose 4 players (ace match stays coaches choosing) and then kespa randomly puts players both sides to different maps. Yes there might still be mirrors and/or unlucky matchups but this method still gives time to player to practice specific map.
That's a cute idea in theory but it would never work if you tried to implement it. Once you take such an important aspect as setting lineups and take that element out of the team's control it opens up tons of avenues for people just bitch and moan and say that the better team lost because they got bad draws and their best players had to play on maps that were imbalanced in the matchup that they had to play.
Doing what you're talking about doing would be like saying: "Instead of having each baseball player have a set position, we're going to make each manager submit their 9-man lineup and then we'll randomly decide who pitches, who catches, who plays first, etc." People will not go for it. On top of that, it would mean we would see lower quality games because players are not playing their best games due to the added practice difficulties that come along with this "random" lineup system.
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United States12607 Posts
Central Plains: WTF?? Could be awesome!
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On March 18 2009 00:35 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2009 00:26 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On March 17 2009 23:57 p4NDemik wrote:On March 17 2009 22:10 konadora wrote:On March 17 2009 21:56 p4NDemik wrote:
Battle Royal is too concepty for PL in my opinion And since when did Proleague confine themselves to a certain 'style' of maps? Sure, they may always dish out the similar maps, but that's the reason why I find it less exciting than the OSL. OSL keeps on pumping out new and exciting maps, for example, Demon's Forest, Plasma, Tears of the Moon. Now, if Proleague integrated such maps, I'm sure PL will be just as exciting, if not, even more than the individual leagues. Starleagues can get away with more concepty (and oftentimes imbalanced) maps because the players have almost no control over who they play in the next round after the group selection shows and once the league is in progress. Maps like Plasma succeed in stimulating interesting play in Starleagues because Zergs, Terrans, and Protosses all have to play on them. Stick these same concept maps in PL and they fail hard. Why? Because the coaches have total control over who plays on them. And because these maps have balance issues almost 100% of the time, you'll see coaches send out one race on a concept map, and then everyone begins to dread every game that is played on that map. Seriously the novelty wears off fast when all you see is TvT's or ZvZ's on a map. So I welcome concept maps like Battle Royal in Starleagues, but for God's sake keep it out of PL. Thats why PL (kespa) should make new system how players selected to those maps. For example, teams choose 4 players (ace match stays coaches choosing) and then kespa randomly puts players both sides to different maps. Yes there might still be mirrors and/or unlucky matchups but this method still gives time to player to practice specific map. That's a cute idea in theory but it would never work if you tried to implement it. Once you take such an important aspect as setting lineups and take that element out of the team's control it opens up tons of avenues for people just bitch and moan and say that the better team lost because they got bad draws and their best players had to play on maps that were imbalanced in the matchup that they had to play. Doing what you're talking about doing would be like saying: "Instead of having each baseball player have a set position, we're going to make each manager submit their 9-man lineup and then we'll randomly decide who pitches, who catches, who plays first, etc." People will not go for it. On top of that, it would mean we would see lower quality games because players are not playing their best games due to the added practice difficulties that come along with this "random" lineup system.
Okay perhaps there could be more adjustment like this.
Set 1 and 2 are random sets where team submits 2 players and they are drawn randomly. Set 3 and 4 (5 too) remains as current system.
Now this permits teams to choose their best players for set 3 and 4 if they want. Lineups would be published 2-3 days earlier (normal PL timing) with set 1 and 2 remaining open (but still showing both team players).
Other system would be implement so called "Sniper card" for teams to use. You could use this once or twice per round (or season if shorter than current PL system). This could mess up little bit practice of certain players as, for example, yarnc vs fantasy could be yarnc vs bisu if SKT1 would choose use the card. But because teams could only use it once it remains surprise factor.
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Hmm some maps might be interesting, but most of them are too wierd imo.
Specially for pro-league.
I never liked maps like plasma, tear of the moon, demon forest, baekmagoji etc.. they are too concepty and i don't like most games and imbalance they generate. Its better with semi standard maps with just a twitch to them imo..
I don't want to sound too negative though, ofcourse we can not yet know how games will be played on these maps in the future.
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Don't like God's Garden much. HATE Central Plains.
Shades Of Twilight, Heartbreak Ridge and Battle Royal all look really cool to me, I hope they make it through.
I'm torn on Outsider. Maybe it has potential, but it's just so ugly. 
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Any information on which ones of the older proleague maps will be the ones to be replaced?
I'd imagine at least Andromeda being taken out finally, its getting old.
I really like the maps overall, I really hope Battle Royal is balanced enough to go through the testing phase so we can see some action on it. I can imagine fast dragoon builds versus terran quite hard to handle with though. ;o
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Wow some of these new maps look awesome. Can't wait to see them being played.
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Korea (South)922 Posts
shades of twilight looks like tvp overkill. about damn time an ice map came up :D, outsider looks similar to alchemist, hopefully not as bad as alchemist, heartbreak ridge looks like katrina remake..
joongwon looks fun, and lastly, compared to all teh other new maps, god's garden looks so depleted D: so litttle minerals
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Belgium9947 Posts
I dont like most of these tbh :\
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A lot of these maps remind me oh python. Atleast Central Plain and God's garden do. These are sick maps though.
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On March 18 2009 00:52 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2009 00:35 p4NDemik wrote:On March 18 2009 00:26 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On March 17 2009 23:57 p4NDemik wrote:On March 17 2009 22:10 konadora wrote:On March 17 2009 21:56 p4NDemik wrote:
Battle Royal is too concepty for PL in my opinion And since when did Proleague confine themselves to a certain 'style' of maps? Sure, they may always dish out the similar maps, but that's the reason why I find it less exciting than the OSL. OSL keeps on pumping out new and exciting maps, for example, Demon's Forest, Plasma, Tears of the Moon. Now, if Proleague integrated such maps, I'm sure PL will be just as exciting, if not, even more than the individual leagues. Starleagues can get away with more concepty (and oftentimes imbalanced) maps because the players have almost no control over who they play in the next round after the group selection shows and once the league is in progress. Maps like Plasma succeed in stimulating interesting play in Starleagues because Zergs, Terrans, and Protosses all have to play on them. Stick these same concept maps in PL and they fail hard. Why? Because the coaches have total control over who plays on them. And because these maps have balance issues almost 100% of the time, you'll see coaches send out one race on a concept map, and then everyone begins to dread every game that is played on that map. Seriously the novelty wears off fast when all you see is TvT's or ZvZ's on a map. So I welcome concept maps like Battle Royal in Starleagues, but for God's sake keep it out of PL. Thats why PL (kespa) should make new system how players selected to those maps. For example, teams choose 4 players (ace match stays coaches choosing) and then kespa randomly puts players both sides to different maps. Yes there might still be mirrors and/or unlucky matchups but this method still gives time to player to practice specific map. That's a cute idea in theory but it would never work if you tried to implement it. Once you take such an important aspect as setting lineups and take that element out of the team's control it opens up tons of avenues for people just bitch and moan and say that the better team lost because they got bad draws and their best players had to play on maps that were imbalanced in the matchup that they had to play. Doing what you're talking about doing would be like saying: "Instead of having each baseball player have a set position, we're going to make each manager submit their 9-man lineup and then we'll randomly decide who pitches, who catches, who plays first, etc." People will not go for it. On top of that, it would mean we would see lower quality games because players are not playing their best games due to the added practice difficulties that come along with this "random" lineup system. Okay perhaps there could be more adjustment like this. Set 1 and 2 are random sets where team submits 2 players and they are drawn randomly. Set 3 and 4 (5 too) remains as current system. Now this permits teams to choose their best players for set 3 and 4 if they want. Lineups would be published 2-3 days earlier (normal PL timing) with set 1 and 2 remaining open (but still showing both team players). Other system would be implement so called "Sniper card" for teams to use. You could use this once or twice per round (or season if shorter than current PL system). This could mess up little bit practice of certain players as, for example, yarnc vs fantasy could be yarnc vs bisu if SKT1 would choose use the card. But because teams could only use it once it remains surprise factor.
Holy crap. Why do you want it to be random so bad? It's not going to work.
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Central Plains reminds me of Longinus and Shades of Twilight reminds me of Byzantium.
Well...I always welcome new maps. I hope they bring some great games~
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United States1865 Posts
Battle Royal, balance be damned, needs to be released to the public, because holy shit i've never seen a map more awesome for creative play. Plus the ice tileset is so rarely used (afaik last time i saw it was Tau Cross)
I just want to play on it with all 3 races and try stuff.
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On March 18 2009 00:52 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2009 00:35 p4NDemik wrote:On March 18 2009 00:26 Too_MuchZerg wrote:On March 17 2009 23:57 p4NDemik wrote:On March 17 2009 22:10 konadora wrote:On March 17 2009 21:56 p4NDemik wrote:
Battle Royal is too concepty for PL in my opinion And since when did Proleague confine themselves to a certain 'style' of maps? Sure, they may always dish out the similar maps, but that's the reason why I find it less exciting than the OSL. OSL keeps on pumping out new and exciting maps, for example, Demon's Forest, Plasma, Tears of the Moon. Now, if Proleague integrated such maps, I'm sure PL will be just as exciting, if not, even more than the individual leagues. Starleagues can get away with more concepty (and oftentimes imbalanced) maps because the players have almost no control over who they play in the next round after the group selection shows and once the league is in progress. Maps like Plasma succeed in stimulating interesting play in Starleagues because Zergs, Terrans, and Protosses all have to play on them. Stick these same concept maps in PL and they fail hard. Why? Because the coaches have total control over who plays on them. And because these maps have balance issues almost 100% of the time, you'll see coaches send out one race on a concept map, and then everyone begins to dread every game that is played on that map. Seriously the novelty wears off fast when all you see is TvT's or ZvZ's on a map. So I welcome concept maps like Battle Royal in Starleagues, but for God's sake keep it out of PL. Thats why PL (kespa) should make new system how players selected to those maps. For example, teams choose 4 players (ace match stays coaches choosing) and then kespa randomly puts players both sides to different maps. Yes there might still be mirrors and/or unlucky matchups but this method still gives time to player to practice specific map. That's a cute idea in theory but it would never work if you tried to implement it. Once you take such an important aspect as setting lineups and take that element out of the team's control it opens up tons of avenues for people just bitch and moan and say that the better team lost because they got bad draws and their best players had to play on maps that were imbalanced in the matchup that they had to play. Doing what you're talking about doing would be like saying: "Instead of having each baseball player have a set position, we're going to make each manager submit their 9-man lineup and then we'll randomly decide who pitches, who catches, who plays first, etc." People will not go for it. On top of that, it would mean we would see lower quality games because players are not playing their best games due to the added practice difficulties that come along with this "random" lineup system. Okay perhaps there could be more adjustment like this. Set 1 and 2 are random sets where team submits 2 players and they are drawn randomly. Set 3 and 4 (5 too) remains as current system. Now this permits teams to choose their best players for set 3 and 4 if they want. Lineups would be published 2-3 days earlier (normal PL timing) with set 1 and 2 remaining open (but still showing both team players). Other system would be implement so called "Sniper card" for teams to use. You could use this once or twice per round (or season if shorter than current PL system). This could mess up little bit practice of certain players as, for example, yarnc vs fantasy could be yarnc vs bisu if SKT1 would choose use the card. But because teams could only use it once it remains surprise factor.
Or they could just keep the current system and, you know, make balanced maps.
I wish i shared everyone optimism on these maps. Alot of them just seem mediocre.
PL usually comes through with solid maps though, so I'm hoping for the best
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I hope Central Plain s makes it !
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These maps look awesome, but it's a shame we'll only see mirror matches on the majority of them in proleague. :\
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battle royal just looks like pure fun, can't wait to try them out
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maps look fun, even though some of them will be imbalanced for sure
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These all look pretty cool, but from balance perspective they probably won't be the best. Still, I'm excited to see some new maps.
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EPT
