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2008 US Presidential Election - Page 14

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UmmTheHobo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States650 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-23 23:45:49
August 23 2008 23:45 GMT
#261
On August 24 2008 08:42 fight_or_flight wrote:

Show nested quote +
On August 24 2008 08:38 UmmTheHobo wrote:
I would not vote for Obama because he wants to put USA in debt even further with his Communist health care plan. Oh yeah, he is also racist.

I guess that leaves McCain... At least he isn't a damn commie.

I dunno, beats fascism.


No. Wrong. At least a fascist government is easier to overthrow.
...
a-game
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Canada5214 Posts
August 24 2008 00:04 GMT
#262
i wonder how things will go once the GOP starts flooding the airwaves with rev. wright footage again.

pretty sure mccain is just sitting on it until the time is right
you wouldnt feel that way if it was *your* magical sword of mantouchery that got stolen - racebannon
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
August 24 2008 00:12 GMT
#263
On August 24 2008 05:01 Cobalt wrote:
fuck yes! Maybe now people will finally learn that Delaware is a state! (I'm a DE resident)

Anyway, now that Obama-Biden is out in the open, someone's already gotten a hold of it and done the inevitable "Vote O(b/s)ama / Bi(n-la)den" thing.

It was actually pretty funny.

Anyway, I really do wonder who McCain will pick as his running mate now. Obama picked one that wouldn't really make a huge splash in the world of politics (what I mean is, imagine if Obama had picked Clinton or someone), so what will McCain do? Since he's relying a lot on leadership, experience, and patriotism, it'll have to be someone who can complement those traits.

EDIT: beaten by something that makes me look dumb

Show nested quote +
(since everyone knows its going to be romney anyway lol)


finally someone else from delaware
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
August 24 2008 00:14 GMT
#264
If communism = welfare state and faccism = war hungry far right moral agenda stuff then give me communism.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Servolisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States5241 Posts
August 24 2008 00:15 GMT
#265
hahahahha "damn commie"... awesome
wtf was that signature
Servolisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States5241 Posts
August 24 2008 00:23 GMT
#266
Can anyone update the state of Hillary hold-outs and the polls recently?

I still occasionally hear stuff about Hillary supporters not going for Obama but I have no idea if it is a significant amount. It's funny and scary that they could be so dumb. I'm glad Obama did not compromise any principles to appease them by picking Hillary, though.
wtf was that signature
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-24 01:38:57
August 24 2008 01:31 GMT
#267


Holy fuck

Biden's office turned down my internship application, but I still think this man deserves a video dump.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
August 24 2008 01:55 GMT
#268
hahah

I cracked up so hard when I first saw that in the debate
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-24 02:23:12
August 24 2008 02:22 GMT
#269
hahahah

cnn just showed the 7 kitchen tables comment
pretty kickass speech by biden, makes sense why obama picked him now
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 24 2008 05:12 GMT
#270
I don't know why the femnazi's are so angry, probably because it's the only thing they have left. She has said often that she wasn't running for VP nor would she accept it. And she lost by delegates that she kept saying was oh so important. And how the hell are they going to pitch the idea when her campaign in still 8 million in debt?!
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
August 24 2008 07:21 GMT
#271
And she really backed herself in a corner. The campaign got so nasty that really wasn't possible for both obama and hillary to be on the same ticket.
Do you really want chat rooms?
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
August 24 2008 08:15 GMT
#272
Hillary's been a cunt, nobody wants her around.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
shmay
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States1091 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-24 12:42:00
August 24 2008 11:27 GMT
#273
On August 23 2008 07:26 Jibba wrote:
This was this year's Human Development Report rankings.

# Iceland
# Norway
# Australia
# Canada
# Ireland
# Sweden
# Switzerland
# Japan
# Netherlands
# France
# Finland
# United States

Our life expectancy is a bit lower than most of those countries by a few years, but that can be due to a number of issues. Our net primary school enrollment rate is significantly lower than most modern countries (low 90%s), our poverty index is fairly high, our health expenditure per capita is almost double some of those other countries, we all know about how our public schools fare in comparison to others. Being #13 is still quite good and we have to spend more money on military than any other country, but the biggest places we're lagging behind are in health care and education, which are certainly fixable issues and those countries that are performing the best have moved away from privatization.

Interestingly enough, our CO2 emissions per capita is high and should be improved, but not substantially higher than Canada, Australia or Norway.

Oh, and our prison populations per capita are high as are homicide rates. I wouldn't pay much attention to the indexes since I just saw Japan ranks higher than us in their gender index, but the %s and rates are worth nothing.


All of those countries are just about as capitalistic as we are. Some slightly more. Most slightly less. But we're all extremely similar in that regard. See the Economic Freedom Index here (we're all atop that list as well). Not to mention Norway famously got rich from oil.

It's ironic that Socialist Canada and Capitalist America are equally capitalist at this point.

I know that Iceland, which tops the list, implemented the flat tax in 2007, and lowered their corporate income tax rate to 18% (ours is 40%) in 2001 (and raised its revenue!). Obviously this doesn't imply causation, but it's something interesting to note, as I think it's myopic to attribute their success mainly to their health and education systems (And I'll admit I don't know the exact cause of their success -- but it's safe to say a good dose of economic freedom is necessary).

As for health care, yes they do spend less than us. But at the same time, all of those countries depend on America's competitive health system for medical innovation -- pretty much all medical advancements come from America. A socialization of the US industry would have horrible consequences in that respect alone (source: http://reason.tv/video/show/508.html).

I'm not a proponent of the current health care system, I just don't advocate socialization. Lower the price and you increase demand. When demand rises above supply, we must ration, creating wait lines -- something socialized medicine is notorious for. Canadian's have had to come to America when they need urgent treatment.

Similarly, many of Britain's doctors are from Third World countries with lower medical standards. An able doctor is less likely to stay in the system if he is treated the same as a less able one, leading to a declining quality of doctors (source: http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3664).

It's also interesting to note our medical spending prior to government involvement in health care: 3% of GDP (source: http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3459466.html). That blows all of the socialistic systems out of the water. It was also a time when there was a great move toward non-profit hospitals. According to Ron Paul, "It is easy to forget that for decades we had a health care system that was the envy of the world." Our current system is highly regulated and has all sorts of mandates that distort the market -- and look at the results.

Take an industry that has little regulation -- computers. You can buy a decent computer for like 400 bucks these days, and they continue to get better year after year. This is why capitalism is good for the poor.

I think if you do same thing with the rest of the industries, it will lead to similar results.

If you want an example of socialized education, look no further than our k-12 education system, which as you said yourself, blows. It's basically a glorified daycare center. Our higher education is better (I still think it sucks though). We do have some of the best colleges in the world. And it is a pretty competitive market. If one school sucks, someone can choose another. But it's still very regulated, and it sucks in many ways -- but is more subsidies the solution?
milly9
Profile Joined May 2007
Canada325 Posts
August 24 2008 11:51 GMT
#274
anybady think zerg suck lol i like protoss
then i stick my treasures in a treehole
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
August 24 2008 13:33 GMT
#275
On August 24 2008 20:27 shmay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2008 07:26 Jibba wrote:
This was this year's Human Development Report rankings.

# Iceland
# Norway
# Australia
# Canada
# Ireland
# Sweden
# Switzerland
# Japan
# Netherlands
# France
# Finland
# United States

Our life expectancy is a bit lower than most of those countries by a few years, but that can be due to a number of issues. Our net primary school enrollment rate is significantly lower than most modern countries (low 90%s), our poverty index is fairly high, our health expenditure per capita is almost double some of those other countries, we all know about how our public schools fare in comparison to others. Being #13 is still quite good and we have to spend more money on military than any other country, but the biggest places we're lagging behind are in health care and education, which are certainly fixable issues and those countries that are performing the best have moved away from privatization.

Interestingly enough, our CO2 emissions per capita is high and should be improved, but not substantially higher than Canada, Australia or Norway.

Oh, and our prison populations per capita are high as are homicide rates. I wouldn't pay much attention to the indexes since I just saw Japan ranks higher than us in their gender index, but the %s and rates are worth nothing.


All of those countries are just about as capitalistic as we are. Some slightly more. Most slightly less. But we're all extremely similar in that regard. See the Economic Freedom Index here (we're all atop that list as well). Not to mention Norway famously got rich from oil.
Economic Freedom Index is more about measuring freedom than economics. Every modern country in the world is capitalist and every modern country in the world is socialist. BA is right that there is no direct correlation between quality of life and these things because we all know things can be misdirected and it's about 100000000000x easier to produce a stable economic/education/health care system in a small homogenous population than it is in the US. But, we can look at areas within our own country and see where government spending have benefited us. Medical innovation is actually a good example of this, because the government spends a lot of money subsidizing pharmaceutical companies and hospitals.

I don't believe pretty much all medical advances come from the US but even taking that line of thought, where do they come from? Universities. Even private ones like John Hopkins get plenty of government grants, but many public universities have some of the finest medical programs in the world as well.

Our best hospitals are likely as good as you can possibly find on Earth, but the problem is our lower level city hospitals are falling behind. Wait lines are already extraordinary in many hospitals (even ones like UofM) because people delay seeing their doctors until the last possible moment, which is probably driven by both the fear of seeing a doctor and maybe inability to pay for it. Lines and times should be managed at the hospital level, and industrial engineers are starting to focus most of their attention on the problem.

Similarly, many of Britain's doctors are from Third World countries with lower medical standards. An able doctor is less likely to stay in the system if he is treated the same as a less able one, leading to a declining quality of doctors (source: http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3664).
Britain's health care has some serious issues (as does Japan) but so are we. We're running low on general doctors because specialists have such greater compensation and we're fairly low in doctors per capita vs. many of the countries on that list.

Take an industry that has little regulation -- computers. You can buy a decent computer for like 400 bucks these days, and they continue to get better year after year. This is why capitalism is good for the poor.
The government is also responsible for creating and building the internet. It should also be pointed out that personal computers, cars, planes, etc. are all the byproducts of our government's military spending.


I think if you do same thing with the rest of the industries, it will lead to similar results.
In some it's been good, in others it hasn't.

but is more subsidies the solution?

There's a huge number of issues with the way our schools are run and throwing money at the problem obviously won't fix it. The terrible administration of our schools at the local/state/federal level is one of the issues, but so is a dwindling amount of teachers and it's not just a public school issue. It applies to private school teachers as well.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
August 24 2008 15:04 GMT
#276
On August 24 2008 20:51 milly9 wrote:
anybady think zerg suck lol i like protoss


Only if the zerg is McCain and the protoss Obama.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 24 2008 23:24 GMT
#277
AP is saying Clinton is to give up her delegates to Obama at the DNC, even though her delegates plan to vote for her.

Also I like how Biden makes his attack on McCain:

He went after McCain, a longtime personal friend, as having given "into the right wing of his party and yielded to the very Swift Boat politics he once so deplored."


Nice.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Wysp
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Canada2299 Posts
August 25 2008 06:27 GMT
#278
I find it very interesting that McCain's campaign has so much less funding than Obama's. Am I right to understand that McCain has US$41.1M and Obama has US$339.2M? This difference seems huge, so I think I'm wrong. Or do Republican's recieve lots of support from interest groups to make up the gap? Any enlightenment would be appreciated
an overdeveloped sense of self preservation
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-25 07:51:04
August 25 2008 07:49 GMT
#279
The 340M number, now 390M is the total amount Obama has raised throughout the campaign. He's spent the vast majority of it. I linked an article that says at the start of August Obama had 66M cash on hand and the DNC had 29M cash on hand for a total of 95M. In comparison McCain had 21M cash on hand the RNC had 75M cash on hand for a total of 96M.

McCain has 2 things going for him that closes the gap. First, because he agreed to accept public financing he gets 84M to spend after he accepts the nomination. Second, the Republican National Committee is vastly out fundraising the Democratic National Committee and they can and will spend money on McCain's behalf. Ultimately he will be outspent by Obama but it won't be lopsided like 2-1 or anything like that.

Link
日本語が分かりますか
Telemako
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Spain1637 Posts
August 25 2008 10:29 GMT
#280
If USA elects McCain i'm gonna lose the tiny faith I have in that country.
I've been around since it all started, and it feels good
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