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On July 02 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
Do I like offline competitions? Absolutely, there’s some extra elements there, crowds and hype, people having to rise to additional challenges.
Equally I mean, those extra challenges aren’t really who is the best at the game itself.
I strongly disagree, I think bringing your best game to the offline tournament, being able to compete in front of crows, with cameras pointing at you is an important layer to judge a player's quality.
In football, many young players are promising in the early stages leagues or in training, but when the pressure is on, they got anxious or shaky and cannot perform to their level. Those are players which will never advance to the A team, or will do one match and fumble.
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On July 02 2024 14:31 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 07:09 Maksim2010 wrote:On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Classic entitlement at its best Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play. Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious. Its not a one time thing. He does it again and again. He should stop attend at qualifiers he has no intention of playing as others who will participate will could qualify instead .We dont know the reason he doesnt play offline he could also be a cheater/hacker. Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has. Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 05:12 followZeRoX wrote:
I'd honestly ban him from participating from all non-online events. He messes up with the brackets eliminating players who'd potentially go to LAN left and right. Sounds like a skill issue to me.
Some users/players won't make any difference of whether the tournament is considered standalone if it incidentally gives out qualifiers slots. Which is a pretty bad approach since it's not a designated qualifier. Some still naming him as a cheater/hacker because he doesn't show offline is such an overcooked trope.
In any case as long ESL continues to allow him to play, I don't see how that flaming continues to pop up each year.
On July 02 2024 07:05 WGT-Baal wrote:
It s on ESL for using a point system in other, fully online, tournaments. It s normal Maxpax plays those. If ESL had their eswc only quali then I m sure Maxpax wouldn't play in that one.
Anyway a player can do whatever they want, they don't owe you anything. You are a viewer, you are nobody. Maxpax doesnt go offline, good for him. I m sure he has his reasons. It doesn't really screw the bracket because it s a known fact. Some other top players play all those events even though they don't need the points. They also eliminate people left and right. What a dumb take to have honestly. (Poopi too, worse since they re tl staff)
It s between this and him not playing sc2 at all. I d much rather have him continue being awesome online. Stupid comments like here may end up being the last straw for him to just retire.
Pretty much the goal of some to make him retire from the scene, they just don't spell it out loud. But his team is pretty much behind him at this point. They do liaise with ESL, mind. And pretty sure he cares less about what others say than what he feels.
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[/QUOTE]
Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has.
Ok then it was miss leading what others wrote. My mistake if he only qualified via points.
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i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event.
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On July 02 2024 19:41 Zergiica wrote:
i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event.
If people are annoyed that MaxPax is taking "their" spot, then they should get better and beat him. As for the "major prize" being qualification for an offline event, I'm pretty sure that the "major prize" in most tournaments is the money, and that qualification for an offline event is an additional bonus.
For the umpteenth time, I'd love to see where MaxPax has played in a tournament were the only outcome of winning was qualification for an offline event that he had no intention of attending, because I don't think that he ever has.
EDIT:
Saying that MaxPax needs to "seek therapy" is pretty gauche.
EDIT2:
I'm beginning to think that some people are just mad that a Protoss has the audacity to win something and want to see it stopped. Only Terran and Zerg allowed at the top table lmao...
I know, I know, I'm being facetious... I'll go and get my tin foil hat!
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On July 02 2024 19:45 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 19:41 Zergiica wrote:
i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event. If people are annoyed that MaxPax is taking "their" spot, then they should get better and beat him. As for the "major prize" being qualification for an offline event, I'm pretty sure that the "major prize" for most tournaments is the money, and that qualification for an offline event is just an additional bonus. For the umpteenth time, I'd love to see where MaxPax has played in a tournament were the only outcome of winning was qualification for an offline event that he had no intention of attending, because I don't think he ever has (although I'm happy to be proven wrong). EDIT: Saying that MaxPax needs to "seek therapy" is pretty gauche.
no no, the major prize is not the money, it is the qualification, because the main event gives you more money, even lower finishing players make a good amount compared to regionals.
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On July 02 2024 19:52 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 19:45 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 19:41 Zergiica wrote:
i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event. If people are annoyed that MaxPax is taking "their" spot, then they should get better and beat him. As for the "major prize" being qualification for an offline event, I'm pretty sure that the "major prize" for most tournaments is the money, and that qualification for an offline event is just an additional bonus. For the umpteenth time, I'd love to see where MaxPax has played in a tournament were the only outcome of winning was qualification for an offline event that he had no intention of attending, because I don't think he ever has (although I'm happy to be proven wrong). EDIT: Saying that MaxPax needs to "seek therapy" is pretty gauche. no no, the major prize is not the money, it is the qualification, because the main event gives you more money, even lower finishing players make a good amount compared to regionals.
In this case, we'll just have to agree to disagree. If a tournament has its own monetary prize, then I can't consider it to be a mere qualifier.
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On July 02 2024 20:12 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 19:52 CicadaSC wrote:On July 02 2024 19:45 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 19:41 Zergiica wrote:
i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event. If people are annoyed that MaxPax is taking "their" spot, then they should get better and beat him. As for the "major prize" being qualification for an offline event, I'm pretty sure that the "major prize" for most tournaments is the money, and that qualification for an offline event is just an additional bonus. For the umpteenth time, I'd love to see where MaxPax has played in a tournament were the only outcome of winning was qualification for an offline event that he had no intention of attending, because I don't think he ever has (although I'm happy to be proven wrong). EDIT: Saying that MaxPax needs to "seek therapy" is pretty gauche. no no, the major prize is not the money, it is the qualification, because the main event gives you more money, even lower finishing players make a good amount compared to regionals. In this case, we'll just have to agree to disagree. If a tournament has its own monetary prize, then I can't consider it to be a mere qualifier.
This.
Cant understand how this could be so hard to understand.
Winning a regional is a good amount of money, doesnt matter that the event you qualify for may give more if successful there.
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On July 02 2024 19:52 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 19:45 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 19:41 Zergiica wrote:
i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event. If people are annoyed that MaxPax is taking "their" spot, then they should get better and beat him. As for the "major prize" being qualification for an offline event, I'm pretty sure that the "major prize" for most tournaments is the money, and that qualification for an offline event is just an additional bonus. For the umpteenth time, I'd love to see where MaxPax has played in a tournament were the only outcome of winning was qualification for an offline event that he had no intention of attending, because I don't think he ever has (although I'm happy to be proven wrong). EDIT: Saying that MaxPax needs to "seek therapy" is pretty gauche. no no, the major prize is not the money, it is the qualification, because the main event gives you more money, even lower finishing players make a good amount compared to regionals.
Uhm...no? ESL Spring had a slightly, but not majorly bigger prizepool compared to ESL Europe. It is absolutely legit to see the ESL Europe Regional as a standalone tournament.
Of course EWC gives out much more money than either Regionals or Masters, but you don't qualify directly from the Regionals to EWC. And things that give out points are definetly not just per default "qualifiers" for the end-event. Otherwise the Tennis Grand Slams are actually just qualifiers for the ATP World Championship at the end of the year? :O
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On July 02 2024 18:45 Philippe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 14:31 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 07:09 Maksim2010 wrote:On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Classic entitlement at its best Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play. Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious. Its not a one time thing. He does it again and again. He should stop attend at qualifiers he has no intention of playing as others who will participate will could qualify instead .We dont know the reason he doesnt play offline he could also be a cheater/hacker. Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has. On July 02 2024 05:12 followZeRoX wrote:
I'd honestly ban him from participating from all non-online events. He messes up with the brackets eliminating players who'd potentially go to LAN left and right. Sounds like a skill issue to me. Some users/players won't make any difference of whether the tournament is considered standalone if it incidentally gives out qualifiers slots. Which is a pretty bad approach since it's not a designated qualifier. Some still naming him as a cheater/hacker because he doesn't show offline is such an overcooked trope. In any case as long ESL continues to allow him to play, I don't see how that flaming continues to pop up each year.
ESL is letting him play because we're still under the 2023 rules as the season got extended and didn't end at IEM Katowice. I imagine under the next season's rules, if we have a next season, offline play will be mandatory. Every other esports requires mandatory offline play. Why is SC2 an exception?
Also like I said before, PSISTORM Gaming can't be happy with MaxPax dodging offline tournaments.
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On July 02 2024 23:26 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 18:45 Philippe wrote:On July 02 2024 14:31 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 07:09 Maksim2010 wrote:On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Classic entitlement at its best Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play. Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious. Its not a one time thing. He does it again and again. He should stop attend at qualifiers he has no intention of playing as others who will participate will could qualify instead .We dont know the reason he doesnt play offline he could also be a cheater/hacker. Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has. On July 02 2024 05:12 followZeRoX wrote:
I'd honestly ban him from participating from all non-online events. He messes up with the brackets eliminating players who'd potentially go to LAN left and right. Sounds like a skill issue to me. Some users/players won't make any difference of whether the tournament is considered standalone if it incidentally gives out qualifiers slots. Which is a pretty bad approach since it's not a designated qualifier. Some still naming him as a cheater/hacker because he doesn't show offline is such an overcooked trope. In any case as long ESL continues to allow him to play, I don't see how that flaming continues to pop up each year. ESL is letting him play because we're still under the 2023 rules as the season got extended and didn't end at IEM Katowice. I imagine under the next season's rules, if we have a next season, offline play will be mandatory. Every other esports requires mandatory offline play. Why is SC2 an exception? Also like I said before, PSISTORM Gaming can't be happy with MaxPax dodging offline tournaments.
How do you force someone to play offline for an event he never signed up for? That's ridiculous. So what, no one can play ESL Cups anymore except you first sign a contract with ESL that you will, if needed, show up at the next EWC or you will otherwise be fined?
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On July 03 2024 00:42 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 23:26 geokilla wrote:On July 02 2024 18:45 Philippe wrote:On July 02 2024 14:31 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 07:09 Maksim2010 wrote:On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
[quote]
Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life?
Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Classic entitlement at its best Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play. Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious. Its not a one time thing. He does it again and again. He should stop attend at qualifiers he has no intention of playing as others who will participate will could qualify instead .We dont know the reason he doesnt play offline he could also be a cheater/hacker. Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has. On July 02 2024 05:12 followZeRoX wrote:
I'd honestly ban him from participating from all non-online events. He messes up with the brackets eliminating players who'd potentially go to LAN left and right. Sounds like a skill issue to me. Some users/players won't make any difference of whether the tournament is considered standalone if it incidentally gives out qualifiers slots. Which is a pretty bad approach since it's not a designated qualifier. Some still naming him as a cheater/hacker because he doesn't show offline is such an overcooked trope. In any case as long ESL continues to allow him to play, I don't see how that flaming continues to pop up each year. ESL is letting him play because we're still under the 2023 rules as the season got extended and didn't end at IEM Katowice. I imagine under the next season's rules, if we have a next season, offline play will be mandatory. Every other esports requires mandatory offline play. Why is SC2 an exception? Also like I said before, PSISTORM Gaming can't be happy with MaxPax dodging offline tournaments. How do you force someone to play offline for an event he never signed up for? That's ridiculous. So what, no one can play ESL Cups anymore except you first sign a contract with ESL that you will, if needed, show up at the next EWC or you will otherwise be fined?
ESL weekly cups are open cups. They let anyone sign up knowing anyone under GM will never get enough points to play offline so they have nothing to worry about. Whereas when a professional plays in EPT tournaments, you're subject to their rule book. All I'm saying is that don't be surprised if the rules change next year, if we have a next year.
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On July 02 2024 20:12 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 19:52 CicadaSC wrote:On July 02 2024 19:45 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 19:41 Zergiica wrote:
i would just suspend him from every EPT event because he takes spot to someone. he should seek therapy or something. i don't know his issues but there is no point he is allowed to play online tournaments where major prize is offline event. If people are annoyed that MaxPax is taking "their" spot, then they should get better and beat him. As for the "major prize" being qualification for an offline event, I'm pretty sure that the "major prize" for most tournaments is the money, and that qualification for an offline event is just an additional bonus. For the umpteenth time, I'd love to see where MaxPax has played in a tournament were the only outcome of winning was qualification for an offline event that he had no intention of attending, because I don't think he ever has (although I'm happy to be proven wrong). EDIT: Saying that MaxPax needs to "seek therapy" is pretty gauche. no no, the major prize is not the money, it is the qualification, because the main event gives you more money, even lower finishing players make a good amount compared to regionals. In this case, we'll just have to agree to disagree. If a tournament has its own monetary prize, then I can't consider it to be a mere qualifier.
Yeah, this is the most sensible take I think.
I'm fine with saying he shouldn't be allowed to play in a `pure qualifier', but saying he shouldn't collect prize money because there are also EPT points or whatever is silly.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On July 02 2024 18:39 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
Do I like offline competitions? Absolutely, there’s some extra elements there, crowds and hype, people having to rise to additional challenges.
Equally I mean, those extra challenges aren’t really who is the best at the game itself.
I strongly disagree, I think bringing your best game to the offline tournament, being able to compete in front of crows, with cameras pointing at you is an important layer to judge a player's quality. In football, many young players are promising in the early stages leagues or in training, but when the pressure is on, they got anxious or shaky and cannot perform to their level. Those are players which will never advance to the A team, or will do one match and fumble.
But in your football example, which is a decent one as I’m a football nut and have heard many an awed tale of a ‘training ground monster’, those folks aren’t competing in the real high-stakes competitions.
There were very few players I can think of who were say, temporarily top players in Covid times without crowds who dropped off when things returned to normality.
Ping is a big component of why offline competition is king, but it’s not really a factor in a European level competition.
As I said, dealing with pressure of various kinds is a part of being a great player sure, but it’s measuring your ability to do that, not necessarily how good you are at Starcraft.
Also I mean in SC2 you’re somewhat isolated from the crowd while you’re competing anyway so really what you’re adjusting to is travelling and being away from home and your usual routine as much as anything.
Whereas in most big sports you have full exposure to potentially hostile crowds, and how you deal with that is something you can’t really avoid
I think if you want the absolute best StarCraft and ping isn’t a factor, you maybe get that online, offline you get a better event spectacle wise, enfranchising the fans and it’s a real test of the players’ nerve and ability to deal with inconvenience and pressure.
I think it’s perfectly fine to consider either in assessing greatness for sure, but I do think there’s a certain snobbishness against online tournies in our particular scene. And I imagine this is going to be rough when the scene transitions to be more and more online just based on the economics, which I assume is going to become more common.
If memory serves for some reason Gamers8 actually had higher ping than many of the Covid era online competitions, so I really hope that isn’t the case again
For me MaxPax isn’t a great player but because he hasn’t done it in the biggest high-stakes tournaments, that happen to be offline, not because he hasn’t done it offline
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Is this news worthy? Has he ever played in an offline tournament? I was sure it was a given he doesn't participate
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On July 03 2024 00:56 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 00:42 Balnazza wrote:On July 02 2024 23:26 geokilla wrote:On July 02 2024 18:45 Philippe wrote:On July 02 2024 14:31 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 07:09 Maksim2010 wrote:On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 02:35 Poopi wrote:
Shame on him for not participating in IRL tournaments in general, but I am happy that he didn’t change his behavior because of $$ and just went along with his usual credo.
I am kinda sad for the protoss fans - spectators that we don’t get to see him play in the « real » conditions, having to handle the pressure of live events and still deliver good StarCraft is what makes the difference between good and great players imo Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life? Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:
[quote]
I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play
He doesn't, that's a pity
Classic entitlement at its best Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play. Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious. Its not a one time thing. He does it again and again. He should stop attend at qualifiers he has no intention of playing as others who will participate will could qualify instead .We dont know the reason he doesnt play offline he could also be a cheater/hacker. Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has. On July 02 2024 05:12 followZeRoX wrote:
I'd honestly ban him from participating from all non-online events. He messes up with the brackets eliminating players who'd potentially go to LAN left and right. Sounds like a skill issue to me. Some users/players won't make any difference of whether the tournament is considered standalone if it incidentally gives out qualifiers slots. Which is a pretty bad approach since it's not a designated qualifier. Some still naming him as a cheater/hacker because he doesn't show offline is such an overcooked trope. In any case as long ESL continues to allow him to play, I don't see how that flaming continues to pop up each year. ESL is letting him play because we're still under the 2023 rules as the season got extended and didn't end at IEM Katowice. I imagine under the next season's rules, if we have a next season, offline play will be mandatory. Every other esports requires mandatory offline play. Why is SC2 an exception? Also like I said before, PSISTORM Gaming can't be happy with MaxPax dodging offline tournaments. How do you force someone to play offline for an event he never signed up for? That's ridiculous. So what, no one can play ESL Cups anymore except you first sign a contract with ESL that you will, if needed, show up at the next EWC or you will otherwise be fined? ESL weekly cups are open cups. They let anyone sign up knowing anyone under GM will never get enough points to play offline so they have nothing to worry about. Whereas when a professional plays in EPT tournaments, you're subject to their rule book. All I'm saying is that don't be surprised if the rules change next year, if we have a next year.
ESL Weeklies award EPT points. You'd be banning MaxPax from playing in the Weeklies lmao.
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On July 02 2024 18:39 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
Do I like offline competitions? Absolutely, there’s some extra elements there, crowds and hype, people having to rise to additional challenges.
Equally I mean, those extra challenges aren’t really who is the best at the game itself.
I strongly disagree, I think bringing your best game to the offline tournament, being able to compete in front of crows, with cameras pointing at you is an important layer to judge a player's quality. In football, many young players are promising in the early stages leagues or in training, but when the pressure is on, they got anxious or shaky and cannot perform to their level. Those are players which will never advance to the A team, or will do one match and fumble.
+1.
Same thing happens with math exams. i've watched people fold like lawn furniture.
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On July 03 2024 02:13 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 00:56 geokilla wrote:On July 03 2024 00:42 Balnazza wrote:On July 02 2024 23:26 geokilla wrote:On July 02 2024 18:45 Philippe wrote:On July 02 2024 14:31 MJG wrote:On July 02 2024 07:09 Maksim2010 wrote:On July 01 2024 09:21 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 01 2024 03:22 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 03:19 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
[quote]
Shame ON him? Who are you to judge what he does with his life?
Or did you mean shame OF him? I mean shame on him, when you are at that level of gameplay you owe it to the game/public to actually show up and play He doesn't, that's a pity Ok and I'd like you to show up to a comedy show and make jokes for us because this is a very funny take. Don't want to? Too bad!! You're obligated!! Seriously who do you think you are to demand what someone does with their life, especially when it's simply for your own entertainment? How incredibly entitled, vain, and selfish. On July 01 2024 06:16 Poopi wrote:On July 01 2024 06:11 Blitzball04 wrote:
[quote]
Classic entitlement at its best
Max pax doesn’t owe it anyone to show up to play.
Based on your logic. Shame on Maru for not showing up and playing the weekly Cup cause he “owes” it the public
But based on your posting history, I ain’t surprised with your mentality Don't sign up for things where you are supposed to go LAN afterwards if you don't intend to actually go to the LAN if you qualify. It's fine if you don't want to go to LAN, then don't participate at all in the qualifiers and stuff. Some players such as the Chinese players who really wanted to go, but couldn't make it due to visa issues / other problems were prevented to play despite them wanting to come, and this guy is wasting slots over and over again, in the latest years of the scene. That's a pity. 1) No one is "supposed to" show up to another tournament they qualified to. Where in the rules does it say players are required to, or supposed to show up to any other events they qualify for? 2) Chinese players having challenges trying to attend or qualify is not Maxpax's problem. 3) No one got their spots stolen. Maxpax isn't wasting any slots. The slots are redistributed to other players based on an already defined system that the players are aware of. The money that he doesn't want is going to someone else that does want it. Where's the shame in that? Seems like the tournament organizer accounted for and allowed players to decide whether to accept their invite to EWC. Good thing the tournament organizer also defined a system that would redistribute any declined invites! Would you say shame on any other player who decided to decline, such as if they have issues competing in a tournament hosted by the Saudi state, or because they have concerns about their personal safety? I'm genuinely curious. Its not a one time thing. He does it again and again. He should stop attend at qualifiers he has no intention of playing as others who will participate will could qualify instead .We dont know the reason he doesnt play offline he could also be a cheater/hacker. Please show me when he played in a pure qualifier for an offline event because I'm fairly sure he never has. On July 02 2024 05:12 followZeRoX wrote:
I'd honestly ban him from participating from all non-online events. He messes up with the brackets eliminating players who'd potentially go to LAN left and right. Sounds like a skill issue to me. Some users/players won't make any difference of whether the tournament is considered standalone if it incidentally gives out qualifiers slots. Which is a pretty bad approach since it's not a designated qualifier. Some still naming him as a cheater/hacker because he doesn't show offline is such an overcooked trope. In any case as long ESL continues to allow him to play, I don't see how that flaming continues to pop up each year. ESL is letting him play because we're still under the 2023 rules as the season got extended and didn't end at IEM Katowice. I imagine under the next season's rules, if we have a next season, offline play will be mandatory. Every other esports requires mandatory offline play. Why is SC2 an exception? Also like I said before, PSISTORM Gaming can't be happy with MaxPax dodging offline tournaments. How do you force someone to play offline for an event he never signed up for? That's ridiculous. So what, no one can play ESL Cups anymore except you first sign a contract with ESL that you will, if needed, show up at the next EWC or you will otherwise be fined? ESL weekly cups are open cups. They let anyone sign up knowing anyone under GM will never get enough points to play offline so they have nothing to worry about. Whereas when a professional plays in EPT tournaments, you're subject to their rule book. All I'm saying is that don't be surprised if the rules change next year, if we have a next year. ESL Weeklies award EPT points. You'd be banning MaxPax from playing in the Weeklies lmao.
But even if MaxPax won every single open weekly cup, he'd still never have enough points to qualify for the grand finals this year. And let's be real, there's no way he's going to win every single cup. He'd have to win Asia, EU, and NA every week to get at most, 1560 points. The cut off for this year is 2000 points since HeroMarine has 2079 points and Spirit has 2000 points.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On July 03 2024 02:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2024 18:39 Argonauta wrote:On July 02 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
Do I like offline competitions? Absolutely, there’s some extra elements there, crowds and hype, people having to rise to additional challenges.
Equally I mean, those extra challenges aren’t really who is the best at the game itself.
I strongly disagree, I think bringing your best game to the offline tournament, being able to compete in front of crows, with cameras pointing at you is an important layer to judge a player's quality. In football, many young players are promising in the early stages leagues or in training, but when the pressure is on, they got anxious or shaky and cannot perform to their level. Those are players which will never advance to the A team, or will do one match and fumble. +1. Same thing happens with math exams. i've watched people fold like lawn furniture.
You’re not really testing their ability to do maths there, but a time-constrained high-pressure examination scenario.
Hey it’s a useful life skill to have. But as someone who basically went whistling into various exams (if I could whistle), I definitely outperformed many a peer who outdid me academically prior, and who subsequently outdid me afterwards.
Even as a general beneficiary of a relaxed temperament aiding me in the exam environment I think it’s a very flawed way to assess aptitude
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On July 03 2024 03:38 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2024 02:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On July 02 2024 18:39 Argonauta wrote:On July 02 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
Do I like offline competitions? Absolutely, there’s some extra elements there, crowds and hype, people having to rise to additional challenges.
Equally I mean, those extra challenges aren’t really who is the best at the game itself.
I strongly disagree, I think bringing your best game to the offline tournament, being able to compete in front of crows, with cameras pointing at you is an important layer to judge a player's quality. In football, many young players are promising in the early stages leagues or in training, but when the pressure is on, they got anxious or shaky and cannot perform to their level. Those are players which will never advance to the A team, or will do one match and fumble. +1. Same thing happens with math exams. i've watched people fold like lawn furniture. You’re not really testing their ability to do maths there, but a time-constrained high-pressure examination scenario. Hey it’s a useful life skill to have. But as someone who basically went whistling into various exams (if I could whistle), I definitely outperformed many a peer who outdid me academically prior, and who subsequently outdid me afterwards. Even as a general beneficiary of a relaxed temperament aiding me in the exam environment I think it’s a very flawed way to assess aptitude
You are straw manning so I will steel man to provide contrast.
Any random, tax-funded, mediocre, general public school that employs weak unqualified mathematicians can create a lousy math exam process.
The Actuarial profession does a solid job of evaluating mathematicians via their exam process.
Properly structured curriculum coupled with well designed exams do a great job of developing mathematicians and actuarial associates.
Just like in sports contests and esports contests some people will fold under pressure. To be alive is to be under pressure.
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EPT
