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On October 10 2007 01:55 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Kissblade you need to stop posting. You only upset people and from here on out no one will read your content objectively anymore. You have became the sole defender of China's claim and you will be flamed by every other forum member here, except for some Chinese mainland members.
If you want me to start listing the things of China that are undemocratic, against freedom and against the general ideology of the west that are considered 'our' most valuable morals and virtues I could write up a list that contains more items than words you have typed in this thread altogether. Do you think Tibet is China too? Because the UN recognizes it as so and you have 'legitimate' claims on it. Well the same things can be said against it and no matter what the corrupt and aggressive Chinese government claims, Tibet does not belong. The cultural differences are huge and they have been repressed and sucked out for decades. China is behaving like an aggressive colonialist state, almost similar to Japan's previous aggression at certain points, whom you despise so badly. No Taiwan has an equal different past than China and the last 60 years of autonomous rule of China have made it become clearly different than China's mainland. If Taiwan wants to belong to China, then China should reach out an open hand for Taiwan to accept on their own willingness. Forcing Chinese pride on Taiwan is no good for anyone, and that is clearly what is the case here. You cannot have Taiwan unless you use force. This clearly means they don't want to be ruled by the Beijing government or want much to do with them. Now stop claiming territory.
I'm pretty certain most of what you will list will either be false or general in application that you can put it to every other country in some shape way or form. And cultural differences are not what defines country borders. I'm a New Yorker. I am in no way similar to the MidWesterner or Southerner in terms of culture. Second, Tibet was part of China since before the Qing dynasty where they agreed to be loosely ruled by the Chinese protecterate. This wasn't something the Chinese government tells me, this was my studies in my US College Class about Chinese history. And before you start, this class was also taught by a white Yale grad. Your sentence about "Taiwan has an equal different past" just makes no sense whatsoever. I cannot claim territory about what country belongs to what. However, in the geographical political sense, Taiwan is a province of China. That is FACT. Just as New York is part of the US. The people who are arguing this either have no idea on the topic (such as yourself) and then resorts to flaming because they're just uneducated on the topic.
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On October 10 2007 01:53 himurakenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2007 01:36 KissBlade wrote:On October 10 2007 01:35 himurakenshin wrote:
Chinese ppl get fucked around by their government, by them not mentioning historical events, filtering media and communication, and they still support their government so much. YOU CAN SAY THE SAME ABOUT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. I don't think so... look at the number of entertainers being anti-Bush administration. No problem. My friend was telling me about a Taiwanese pop singer who was really popular, but then she made a comment about Taiwanese independence and that was the end of her career.
Out of context. Anti bush is just anti a president. If you get a pop singer who says "Hey America is a Piece of Shit and Democracy sucks", I'm relatively certain that will end their career in the US as well.
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I don't think i misread it. And you tried a serious post with serious arguments, arguments which i believe they are water rain. Show me what i didn't understand from your post.
What can i argue about? this arguing has been already done over and over again. Democracy =/= best system. In fact there is no best system.
Actually i got a little pissed by the fact that you jumped in Kissblade's head for nothing. His opinion and posts were important since he said from the beggining that he's originary from taiwan.
Maybe i lack in understanding of your posts, but as it seems, to me atleast, that "you are stupid" was directed to me.
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On October 10 2007 01:28 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2007 01:26 Sadist wrote:
interesting topic for me imo, I dont know the exact story behind China and Taiwan, but If its not like the US with the confederate flag(which represents racism and oppression) I dont see what the big deal is. . The civil war did not start over slavery. PS. This isn't directed to you but it's amazing how people are accusing others of being misinformed by foreign government when they're so misled by their own about their history.
duh
but thats what the flag represents to many people.
And i was talking about purely from a flag perspective, thats why i did not mention the revolutionary war.
There are still people here today in America that like the confederate flag and theres been loads of issues over it, I personally think its disgusting and their excuses for wanting to use it (IE: It represents my families history for fighting in the war, its us its the south......Ya well your great great great grandfather was a douche bag too)
So, while I wouldnt personally have a problem with someone seceding, I think that flag is sick, I didnt know if the Chinese/Taiwan relationship had some sort of similar history or whatever.
Nationalism IMO is dumb, its ok in sports to bring people together, but shit like what happened here is stupid, PJ is insignificant in China, why should he be sticking up for something that honestly couldnt give a damn if he died tommorow.
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On October 10 2007 02:38 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2007 01:53 himurakenshin wrote:On October 10 2007 01:36 KissBlade wrote:On October 10 2007 01:35 himurakenshin wrote:
Chinese ppl get fucked around by their government, by them not mentioning historical events, filtering media and communication, and they still support their government so much. YOU CAN SAY THE SAME ABOUT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. I don't think so... look at the number of entertainers being anti-Bush administration. No problem. My friend was telling me about a Taiwanese pop singer who was really popular, but then she made a comment about Taiwanese independence and that was the end of her career. Out of context. Anti bush is just anti a president. If you get a pop singer who says "Hey America is a Piece of Shit and Democracy sucks", I'm relatively certain that will end their career in the US as well.
not true, see dixie chicks.
On October 10 2007 02:35 KissBlade wrote:
However, in the geographical political sense, Taiwan is a province of China. That is FACT. Just as New York is part of the US. The people who are arguing this either have no idea on the topic (such as yourself) and then resorts to flaming because they're just uneducated on the topic.
what does geographical political even mean. politically, they are considered a province just because nobody in the world wants to anger china.
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'I'm pretty certain most of what you will list will either be false or general in application that you can put it to every other country in some shape way or form. '
You mean the blatant censorship of any criticism against government, the sudden disappearance of government criticizers, the ban of amnesty international or....... But you are right, China is a funny peace loving country that would not dare the violate human rights or oppress the people of Tibet. And what is 60 years of self government? Let's take it back against their will and argue that it is alright for a group to come on to one person demanding, shouting and pushing him in order to get his OWN flag down and raise a Chinese flag who he clearly does not feel related to.
Do you even think for a second that China and their government are not violating countless of rules? 'China is just as bad as any other' is no good explanations for their intolerable behavior. Now stop trolling around.
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On October 10 2007 02:43 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
I'm pretty certain most of what you will list will either be false or general in application that you can put it to every other country in some shape way or form.
You mean the blatant censorship of any criticism against government, the sudden disappearance of government criticizers, the ban of amnesty international or....... But you are right, China is a funny peace loving country that would not dare the violate human rights or oppress the people of Tibet. And what is 60 years of self government? Let's take it back against their will and argue that it is alright for a group to come on to one person demanding, shouting and pushing him in order to get his OWN flag down and raise a Chinese flag who he clearly does not feel related to.
Do you even think for a second that China and their government are not violating countless of rules? 'China is just as bad as any other' is no good explanations for their intolerable behavior. Now stop trolling around.
First off, I don't believe what PJ did was right. I was making counter points to several uninformed posts (including yours). Most of your post as I've suspected is blatant exaggeration. There is censorship in China. Significant censorship that is heavier thant he US. Agreed. But what government doesn't censor material? It's the price you pay for order. The lines aren't always clear on where it is best to set it but that takes work. If I'm trolling by posting legitimate counterclaims to uninformed posts, then I guess this forum is built on ignorance?
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i have to agree with Strafe.
KissBlade just open your eyes a little bit, not everything is as it seems, especially when it comes to politics. you keep pointing out that nobody is "educated" on the topic just because you can cite some history or geography courses that you took from some white Yale professor, yet you are still so naive to what is actually causing the rift between china and taiwan.
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On October 10 2007 02:48 tiffany wrote:
i have to agree with Strafe.
KissBlade just open your eyes a little bit, not everything is as it seems, especially when it comes to politics. you keep pointing out that nobody is "educated" on the topic just because you can cite some history or geography courses that you took from some white Yale professor, yet you are still so naive to what is actually causing the rift between china and taiwan.
I have to open my eyes a bit? Let me get this straight, because I can cite fact, I am naive to this topic? I have already accepted there are differing opinions, some valid, others not. I am not denying that there are people from Taiwan who maintains they are independant, but there's random people running in here and just spoiling the topic with their own misinformation and trying to flame other so they can make theirs truth. And at the same time they post about oppression of knowledge. It just reeks of hypocrisy to me.
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To sustain the last part of kissblade's post: the publication and possesion of any copy of mein kampf is forbidden (in most country in europe it is, not sure about usa).
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is awesome32275 Posts
On October 10 2007 02:43 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Let's take it back against their will and argue that it is alright for a group to come on to one person demanding, shouting and pushing him in order to get his OWN flag down and raise a Chinese flag who he clearly does not feel related to.
Chinese clearly are pirates.
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I don't see why people arguing here
International politics is just a game. If you want to play with it, you better convince everyone (or at least big names) who's already been playing it that you have the ability to make the game funnier if they let you join.
Taiwan just failed to do so. And they keep trying it.
Moral? Democracy? I feel sry. That's the politician's excuse.
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You just keep saying I am uneducated without proving me wrong. If I took you serious enough I would www.google.cn and look up the numbers of people monitored by amnesty international that all of the sudden disappeared. And then look at their relation to the government and would find out something remarkable. If there is one person here that is uneducated it will be you. Maybe you need to process the information given by the white yale professor a little bit better. Knowledge alone does you no good when you are unable to make it into something useful. Black and white does not exist and you need to look beyond the length of your undoubtedly flat nose. A simple claim by China on a territory alone is not enough to deny it its rights and own government.
There is no blatant exaggeration in the violations of human rights in China and their rather aggressive behavior in certain areas. If anything the world keeps quiet about it and doesn't raise their voice against them too hard. Because you know, they all have something to do with China now. Stop calling people uninformed, because they disagree with you. Someone is not uneducated , because he is saying something different than what you think is the truth.
I never yearned more for a crushing Moltke post than now. Let him rant on China and your knees will tremble from the roaring truth coming at you. Open your eyes and accept China has more than most governments, too many shortcomings and their behavior against the self-determination of Taiwan becomes rather annoying.
I won't say you are brainwashed nor uneducated, you just strike me as a stubborn idiot. Unless someone else than you two (pikachu) has something to say I will not reply anymore until a decent intelligent post has been made.
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On October 10 2007 03:01 {ToT}Strafe wrote:You just keep saying I am uneducated without proving me wrong. If I took you serious enough I would www.google.cn and look up the numbers of people monitored by amnesty international that all of the sudden disappeared. And then look at their relation to the government and would find out something remarkable. If there is one person here that is uneducated it will be you. Maybe you need to process the information given by the white yale professor a little bit better. Knowledge alone does you no good when you are unable to make it into something useful. Black and white does not exist and you need to look beyond the length of your undoubtedly flat nose. A simple claim by China on a territory alone is not enough to deny it its rights and own government. There is no blatant exaggeration in the violations of human rights in China and their rather aggressive behavior in certain areas. If anything the world keeps quiet about it and doesn't raise their voice against them too hard. Because you know, they all have something to do with China now. Stop calling people uninformed, because they disagree with you. Someone is not uneducated , because he is saying something different than what you think is the truth. I never yearned more for a crushing Moltke post than now. Let him rant on China and your knees will tremble from the roaring truth coming at you. Open your eyes and accept China has more than most governments, too many shortcomings and their behavior against the self-determination of Taiwan becomes rather annoying. I won't say you are brainwashed nor uneducated, you just strike me as a stubborn idiot. Unless someone else than you two (pikachu) has something to say I will not reply anymore until a decent intelligent post has been made.
Other than your poor attempt at a flame you've said nothing of substance in any of your posts. You've posted no sources or facts. Apparently your version of freedom of speech is to tell the other side to stfu because they're a stubborn idiot? I call people uninformed because they are uninformed. There's been valid counterpoints, you simply can't accept that you have zero ground to stand on other than "China violates human rights" which has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand. A simple claim made by China on a territory alone? The fact that most of the world supports that claim apparently means nothing to you? here's an advice for you then Strafe. Do what you said and STOP posting because you've got nothing. Motlke's truth? You mean biased sources that sound almost like they come from the stance of a Nazi? You are the hypocrite that roars on about oppression when your posts have been nothing more than "I'm white and thus I know more this than you so you should shut up because you're being oppressed by your censored government (which is funny because everything I've learned about China was in the US)".
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Mein Kampf is not banned in the USA, I have a copy. they sell it in a lot of bookstores, but you get a weird look when you buy it =o
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lol the chinese have to post that taiwan is their province, cause otherwise they get sentenced to death..... i also wonder how they came through the internet censorship i heard of 
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On October 10 2007 02:35 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2007 01:55 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
Kissblade you need to stop posting. You only upset people and from here on out no one will read your content objectively anymore. You have became the sole defender of China's claim and you will be flamed by every other forum member here, except for some Chinese mainland members.
If you want me to start listing the things of China that are undemocratic, against freedom and against the general ideology of the west that are considered 'our' most valuable morals and virtues I could write up a list that contains more items than words you have typed in this thread altogether. Do you think Tibet is China too? Because the UN recognizes it as so and you have 'legitimate' claims on it. Well the same things can be said against it and no matter what the corrupt and aggressive Chinese government claims, Tibet does not belong. The cultural differences are huge and they have been repressed and sucked out for decades. China is behaving like an aggressive colonialist state, almost similar to Japan's previous aggression at certain points, whom you despise so badly. No Taiwan has an equal different past than China and the last 60 years of autonomous rule of China have made it become clearly different than China's mainland. If Taiwan wants to belong to China, then China should reach out an open hand for Taiwan to accept on their own willingness. Forcing Chinese pride on Taiwan is no good for anyone, and that is clearly what is the case here. You cannot have Taiwan unless you use force. This clearly means they don't want to be ruled by the Beijing government or want much to do with them. Now stop claiming territory. I'm pretty certain most of what you will list will either be false or general in application that you can put it to every other country in some shape way or form. And cultural differences are not what defines country borders. I'm a New Yorker. I am in no way similar to the MidWesterner or Southerner in terms of culture. Second, Tibet was part of China since before the Qing dynasty where they agreed to be loosely ruled by the Chinese protecterate. This wasn't something the Chinese government tells me, this was my studies in my US College Class about Chinese history. And before you start, this class was also taught by a white Yale grad. Your sentence about "Taiwan has an equal different past" just makes no sense whatsoever. I cannot claim territory about what country belongs to what. However, in the geographical political sense, Taiwan is a province of China. That is FACT. Just as New York is part of the US. The people who are arguing this either have no idea on the topic (such as yourself) and then resorts to flaming because they're just uneducated on the topic.
I'm going to just mention a slight, but appreciable difference. New York wants to be a part of the USA. Taiwan doesn't want to be a part of China. OKay?
Southerners and midwesterners are not treated differently by the government than New Yorkers. Tibetians are treated differently by the government compared to the rest of China.
Not that hard of a concept to grasp.
Stop making the rest of us Chinese-Americans look bad.
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On October 10 2007 03:10 Cranefly wrote:lol the chinese have to post that taiwan is their province, cause otherwise they get sentenced to death..... i also wonder how they came through the internet censorship i heard of
As I've already stated multiple times in this post. I'm from Taiwan. My view is mostly slanted towards the "conservative" stance in Taiwan. (which recent polls have shown to be the leading opinion). This doesn't mean that immediate unification is desired, simply that there can be some agreement met about it in indeterminate time. Of course, recent polls are also very skewed because if you knew anything about Taiwanese politics, you'd know it's not clean at all and more corrupted than the Florida debacle during the Bush election.
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The point is that China commits egregious human rights violations, and that any defense of it on this forum is going to be flamed. Furthermore, creating such a fuss about someone putting up a Taiwanese flag at WCG is even more undeniably stupid.
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EPT
