EPTIs start location affects PvP match balance ?
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
| ||
|
kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
| ||
|
Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
| ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 12 2018 20:52 Freakling wrote: Players also tend to adapt to it in various ways, placing buildings next to their resource depot to push the spawn position around or to alter worker pathfinding, or by using the Larva-stop-glitch as Zerg. Never heard about this  Larva Trick before, thanks. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19340 Posts
| ||
|
jello_biafra
United Kingdom6641 Posts
| ||
|
Yanokabo
268 Posts
| ||
|
ArmadA[NaS]
United States347 Posts
| ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
| ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 13 2018 07:10 f10eqq wrote: You know there's a simple questions, simple answers thread in the strategy section... Yes I know, but I thought that this question is slightly complex to get an incisive answer for it. I did a quick test for 5mins, once minerals left to Nexus/CC, and once right to it, the left minerals wasn't showing a great advantage (< 50 minerals more than right), so strangely, I think it's trivial and not a notable advantage. | ||
|
castleeMg
Canada786 Posts
| ||
|
mierin
United States4943 Posts
| ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 13 2018 08:07 castleeMg wrote: yes it affects the balance of any match-up if you play on a map like luna and spawn in a location with less efficient mining than your opponent, you're at a disadvantage. not a game breaking disadvantage but enough that its unfair and chances are if you are at even skill with that opponent and played that opponent 50 times you would lose the bo50 series. i dont understand how you can make a thread claiming to of revolutionized the way people are going to macro with your program, then ask questions like this. I shouldn't be a Pro gamer to be able to make a tool that could help a Pro gamer, should I ? I didn't claim that any tool could "revolutionized the way people are going to macro", this tool just tells you there is level up, modern standards than the previous era, but it's up to you to revolutionize the way you're playing, not me, not the tool. And if you give it a shot, it won't shot you. Not to go off topic, you know the appropriate topic to discuss this. On November 13 2018 11:01 mierin wrote: I wish I could see your username and not remember nonsense threads such as your 9 psi nexus and the "macro" tool that says people should just make workers no matter what the circumstance. It's tainted at this point. You're mixing things, I wasn't talking for no reason, castleeMg and you reopened the topic. Again, Not to go off topic, you know the appropriate topic to discuss this. | ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
| ||
|
Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On November 13 2018 07:24 Moataz wrote: Yes I know, but I thought that this question is slightly complex to get an incisive answer for it. I did a quick test for 5mins, once minerals left to Nexus/CC, and once right to it, the left minerals wasn't showing a great advantage (< 50 minerals more than right), so strangely, I think it's trivial and not a notable advantage. Did you really think that if it was a big difference players wouldn't have noticed and mentioned it...? It's obvious that discrepancies like these have been thoroughly tested beforehand. | ||
|
Jealous
10314 Posts
On November 13 2018 11:33 Moataz wrote: I shouldn't be a Pro gamer to be able to make a tool that could help a Pro gamer, should I ? Moataz is the gift that keeps on giving. | ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 13 2018 12:43 Whatson wrote: Did you really think that if it was a big difference players wouldn't have noticed and mentioned it...? It's obvious that discrepancies like these have been thoroughly tested beforehand. Not all players have the same knowledge about the game, I have few, but I don't think there is a problem in discussing your/my knowledge. Not for nothing, not for long, I just hope I'll be rewarded someday. (not from humans) BTW what're your motivations for doing good things or helping people in life? | ||
|
Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
On November 13 2018 12:43 Whatson wrote: Did you really think that if it was a big difference players wouldn't have noticed and mentioned it...? It's obvious that discrepancies like these have been thoroughly tested beforehand. And this is where you probably err. Significant differences in mining rates (higher one-digit percentages for minerals and up to 20% for gas), even between mains, have gone undetected (or at least unaccounted for) for vast stretches of time… | ||
|
Chef
10810 Posts
There are some maps which use doodads or neutral units to make the workers spawn closer to the minerals to improve fairness. Freakling more than anyone else is very particular about testing the fairness of mineral placements, which he's written extensively about because non-intuitively, you can't just mirror mineral placements and I think even duplicating them can have some issues. Brood War has some issues like that which will never be fixed, and they can be kinda hard to pin down. Accelerations and deceleration of workers when mining is particularly weird. Like white going first in chess, it's kind of weirdly part of the game. A part of me thinks Brood War might look very different if workers mined consistently and efficiently. Their inefficiency and redundancy is almost a nerf on the advantage gained from killing a worker. Brood War is a messy game that can't be played perfectly, and these problems are kind of thematic with that. The extreme expression of that of course being the original Blizzard maps that came with the game. Still, I think if Remastered had tried to fix the mining issues and made it easier for people to make fair maps, it wouldn't have been a bad thing  | ||
|
castleeMg
Canada786 Posts
| ||
|
rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
This question is in the wrong place but it's fine. Strategy is where questions about mechanics and strategies usually go. | ||
|
Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On November 13 2018 22:17 Chef wrote: Freakling is right here. I add to that, to the endless chagrin of users on BWMN, lots of things they know about Brood War are still a surprise years and years later to the community at large, and even to Team Liquid and the Korean pros. The gas issue being a very good example, where unfair gas placements can mean one or two less muta in ZvZ (if using three workers and not sacrificing minerals), which is really broken. Very good players didn't know this long after the information was out there. There are some maps which use doodads or neutral units to make the workers spawn closer to the minerals to improve fairness. Freakling more than anyone else is very particular about testing the fairness of mineral placements, which he's written extensively about because non-intuitively, you can't just mirror mineral placements and I think even duplicating them can have some issues. Brood War has some issues like that which will never be fixed, and they can be kinda hard to pin down. Accelerations and deceleration of workers when mining is particularly weird. Like white going first in chess, it's kind of weirdly part of the game. A part of me thinks Brood War might look very different if workers mined consistently and efficiently. Their inefficiency and redundancy is almost a nerf on the advantage gained from killing a worker. Brood War is a messy game that can't be played perfectly, and these problems are kind of thematic with that. The extreme expression of that of course being the original Blizzard maps that came with the game. Still, I think if Remastered had tried to fix the mining issues and made it easier for people to make fair maps, it wouldn't have been a bad thing On November 13 2018 20:24 Freakling wrote: And this is where you probably err. Significant differences in mining rates (higher one-digit percentages for minerals and up to 20% for gas), even between mains, have gone undetected (or at least unaccounted for) for vast stretches of time… If that's the case then I apologize. It's just that when I first started playing BW I was told basically straight-up by the people who got me into the game that because a lot of maps aren't symmetrical there would inherently be advantages/disadvantages to each location and in different matchups, but it was all a part of the gameplay and wasn't significant enough to severely impact who wins. | ||
|
Chef
10810 Posts
Also, I think even when LT was the only map people played and people might have said the same thing about balance not being that bad, 12 o-clock super sucked for Zerg because you couldn't build your hatch at your natural if you wanted to defend your choke with sunkens lol. SC players tolerated and still tolerate a lot (but not without complaining of course). It turns out if a game is fun it doesn't need to be perfectly balanced. | ||
|
Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
| ||
|
chem!
Russian Federation42 Posts
| ||
|
Yanokabo
268 Posts
| ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 14 2018 03:33 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: He'll learn eventually. He already reached the point of asking instead of thinking he knows, which is a huge improvement. This question is in the wrong place but it's fine. Strategy is where questions about mechanics and strategies usually go. I can confess when I do something wrong, can you? Not to go off topic, Welcome to the CoachAI. | ||
|
Dead9
United States4725 Posts
it's just a part of the game like spawning horizontal pos on cb tvp is way easier than cross pos some older maps have very noticeable differences between positions too for example 12/3 on katrina mine gas much better than the other positions | ||
|
ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
On November 13 2018 11:01 mierin wrote: I wish I could see your username and not remember nonsense threads such as your 9 psi nexus and the "macro" tool that says people should just make workers no matter what the circumstance. It's tainted at this point. oh wait! he is the "9 psi nexus" guy? hahahahahhaha | ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 16 2018 02:45 ajmbek wrote: oh wait! he is the "9 psi nexus" guy? hahahahahhaha Another kid comes late to the party & goes off topic, where are the moderators, to guide these guys to the right place ? Anyway kid, I have a reply for you here. | ||
|
Jealous
10314 Posts
| ||
|
ajmbek
Italy460 Posts
On November 16 2018 04:44 Moataz wrote: Another kid comes late to the party & goes off topic, where are the moderators, to guide these guys to the right place ? Anyway kid, I have a reply for you here. look, you made 3 almost nonsens topics in the last couple of weeks, what do you expect? I play this game from around 2005. Let me just laugh at this. Otherwise i had to be rude. | ||
|
Moataz
Egypt267 Posts
On November 16 2018 22:11 ajmbek wrote: look, you made 3 almost nonsens topics in the last couple of weeks, what do you expect? I play this game from around 2005. Let me just laugh at this. Otherwise i had to be rude. Look, kid, anyone can say about the most apparent facts it's nonsense, but without given an incisive reason why he thinks like that, then most probably he is the one that doesn't make a sense. Like when someone deny that this universe has a creator and says that its nonsense, he actually doesn't want/wish that there is one (like the student who didn't study well, doesn't want the exam !), so he turns away from anything that reminds him, and search for weak points even if he knows that these points won't help/not-related to the topic. Sorry for talking much about the sense, you also have a typo (guess where !) which mean my topics could make some sense. I think the nonsense is only in your mind, since you didn't prove it, so Let me just laugh at this, otherwise I had to be rude. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37074 Posts
| ||
| ||
