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On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion.
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On November 06 2018 10:22 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2018 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 06 2018 10:08 GoTuNk! wrote:
I think the Republicans will hold the house tomorrow, or get really really close.
Anyone else wanna throw predictions? I think Republicans are going to do much better than the predictions that have Democrats swinging 26+ seats int the House. They are also going to gain seats in the Senate. Democrats should be winning 40+ seats in the house but they will have huge wins at the gubernatorial level. The race I'm thinking will be the most interesting is Gillum and Nelson. There's a strong chance they split the state and that will be huge for 2020 strategies. Florida will be a critical state yet again, and if Hillary and Nelson lose there, it makes a more progressive platform a necessary shift for the Democratic party (if they wanted to win) going into 2020. What do you mean by more progressive? What should their message hammer on? I ask because from the other aisle it seems they have no message, just an incohesive anti-Trump, pro "indentity politics" rethoric. They also completely lack an unifying leader, but that's not easy to fix.
You may be overestimating the cohesiveness of your own side here. As well as overestimating how "unifying" Trump is, assuming you are implying here that Republican party is cohesive and Trump is a unifier. Consider that Trump has had a Republican congress and only got one notable law passed. Your party didn't repeal Obamacare.
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On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion.
Way overestimating the significance of Trump's hardcore base. That is what the rallies represent. You're chugging kool aid here.
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On November 07 2018 01:14 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Way overestimating the significance of Trump's hardcore base. That is what the rallies represent. You're chugging kool aid here.
Politicians don't win anything if they don't turn out their base.
And I think you have it backwards. The real issue here is that you and most everyone else on the left are still chugging the kool aid being peddled to you by the Democrats and the media. Y'all were obviously hilariously off-base in the run up to the 2016 election, and there's not much to suggest that you have righted the course yet.
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On November 07 2018 00:54 Velr wrote:
I watched 20 minutes of it... I highly doubt that watching more would have changed my mind, at least not in a positive way.
Probably its a cultural thing, I could and will never take politicians seriously that act like they are at a WWE Event.
+ridiculous amounts of patriotism that make me wanna womit.
Good on you for watching 20 minutes. I find the primary source material must be regularly consulted these days.
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On November 07 2018 01:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 01:14 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Way overestimating the significance of Trump's hardcore base. That is what the rallies represent. You're chugging kool aid here. Politicians don't win anything if they don't turn out their base. And I think you have it backwards. The real issue here is that you and most everyone else on the left are still chugging the kool aid being peddled to you by the Democrats and the media. Y'all were obviously hilariously off-base in the run up to the 2016 election, and there's not much to suggest that you have righted the course yet.
You do remember that Trump lost the popular vote by the largest majority in US history, right? Can you stop pretending that everyone in America loves Trump?
So yes, definite chugging on your behalf. I mean, you did ask me to demonstrate that Trump has told lies, which is just bizarre given how easy it is to prove with ten seconds of thought and a glance at almost any major speech he's given, suggesting you've never done the latter or applied the former.
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I'm kind of worried about what's going to happen after Trump loses a bunch of seats in the House, if that's what happens as I suspect it is. It doesn't strike me as something that he'll be reasonable about, and we already have a bunch of terror attacks prior to the election happening...
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On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion.
Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies.
The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections.
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On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections.
He stumbled across the finish line against a historically bad candidate.
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On November 07 2018 01:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 01:14 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Way overestimating the significance of Trump's hardcore base. That is what the rallies represent. You're chugging kool aid here. Politicians don't win anything if they don't turn out their base. And I think you have it backwards. The real issue here is that you and most everyone else on the left are still chugging the kool aid being peddled to you by the Democrats and the media. Y'all were obviously hilariously off-base in the run up to the 2016 election, and there's not much to suggest that you have righted the course yet.
We are not the ones saying Donald Trump is like Reagan. You need to remember you're talking about Donald Trump here. And it's funny that you're talking about people's predictions about who would win the election because I specifically remember you calling Trump a "clown" and predicting he was going to lose.
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On November 07 2018 02:47 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections. He stumbled across the finish line against a historically bad candidate.
Oh common give him some credit. Trump isn't a moral compass, or a thought leader, but he weaseled his way trough to win the nomination, the election, and now owns the GOP. His charisma and general savviness is unquestionable.
Hillary was a terrible candidate, but the GOP seemed hopeless and look it now.
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On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections.
The only thing the anti-Americanism, and bigotry against whites, and blaming the president for the acts of crazies, is a giant middle finger pointed skyward. I really hope there are enough Americans voting today to deliver a repudiation to the Democratic Party as it exists today.
It’s going to be tough going. The 21st century has always seen a major swing against the party in power in the first midterm. All these polls are close for critical house seats (the fact that team blue lost much of its edge in polling for House races as they did a couple months ago is a good sign).
I’ve voted. I’m going to start my watch of the returns around 6pm Pacific to avoid all the mayhem.
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On November 07 2018 02:52 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 02:47 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections. He stumbled across the finish line against a historically bad candidate. Oh common give him some credit. Trump isn't a moral compass, or a thought leader, but he weaseled his way trough to win the nomination, the election, and now owns the GOP. His charisma and general savviness is unquestionable. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but the GOP seemed hopeless and look it now.
He's not a "hammer to win elections" if he only stumbled across the finish line against a terrible candidate. His "general savviness" is not general at all; it's specific to getting the media's lights on him. A significant percentage of Republicans say in polls that they'd entertain a primary challenger in 2020. Your adulation is untethered from reality.
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On November 07 2018 02:52 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 02:47 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections. He stumbled across the finish line against a historically bad candidate. Oh common give him some credit. Trump isn't a moral compass, or a thought leader, but he weaseled his way trough to win the nomination, the election, and now owns the GOP. His charisma and general savviness is unquestionable. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but the GOP seemed hopeless and look it now.
The question is how much of it is smoke and mirrors.
The GOP did seem hopeless (much like the Democrats do now), and under Trump are more unified, and both of these things are good. But the question is, how much does it change the party?
One thing that you should have noticed is that Trump-like candidates aren't doing so well. The more Trumpish people are the less popular they often tend to be. Trump has a special aura that lets him get away with all the outrageous shit he says and does, and I wish it wasn't so but fair enough he has that.
What happens when he goes, though, and the GOP is still trying this stuff with candidates that don't have his aura? What if some of the more alarming side cases become more mainstream (the legit neo-nazi who ran as a Republican, Roy Moore), what happens then? The GOP would be right back to floundering, but even worse, they'd have learned a playbook that worked for one guy, potentially even one time (he hasn't won his second four years yet, remember). If enough side cases run for office, if any of them win, the Republican Party will find itself in another Tea Party situation, and that is the path to intra-party civil war.
So yeah, I'll give Trump credit for unifying a broken base and getting to the Presidency. Those are very impressive achievements, irrespective of the Dems' missteps. I'm less enthused from a take-a-step-back, analytical look at where the GOP could find itself as a consequence. And I want to make clear I don't think that would be a good thing. A two party system breaks down spectacularly if one of those two parties stops functioning properly.
Not to mention, what if Trump's Presidency marks the point of no return for political discourse, and this turgid mess is the way it's going to be going forward for decades?
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On November 07 2018 03:25 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 02:52 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 02:47 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections. He stumbled across the finish line against a historically bad candidate. Oh common give him some credit. Trump isn't a moral compass, or a thought leader, but he weaseled his way trough to win the nomination, the election, and now owns the GOP. His charisma and general savviness is unquestionable. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but the GOP seemed hopeless and look it now. The question is how much of it is smoke and mirrors. The GOP did seem hopeless (much like the Democrats do now), and under Trump are more unified, and both of these things are good. But the question is, how much does it change the party? One thing that you should have noticed is that Trump-like candidates aren't doing so well. The more Trumpish people are the less popular they often tend to be. Trump has a special aura that lets him get away with all the outrageous shit he says and does, and I wish it wasn't so but fair enough he has that. What happens when he goes, though, and the GOP is still trying this stuff with candidates that don't have his aura? What if some of the more alarming side cases become more mainstream (the legit neo-nazi who ran as a Republican, Roy Moore), what happens then? The GOP would be right back to floundering, but even worse, they'd have learned a playbook that worked for one guy, potentially even one time (he hasn't won his second four years yet, remember). If enough side cases run for office, if any of them win, the Republican Party will find itself in another Tea Party situation, and that is the path to intra-party civil war. So yeah, I'll give Trump credit for unifying a broken base and getting to the Presidency. Those are very impressive achievements, irrespective of the Dems' missteps. I'm less enthused from a take-a-step-back, analytical look at where the GOP could find itself as a consequence. And I want to make clear I don't think that would be a good thing. A two party system breaks down spectacularly if one of those two parties stops functioning properly. Not to mention, what if Trump's Presidency marks the point of no return for political discourse, and this turgid mess is the way it's going to be going forward for decades?
I don't think we can predict the future and what you are saying might be true, but I'll take my chances. Specially if we get another SCOTUS. I have 0++ consideration for neo nazis as a threat for anything, they are like 2000 people and NO ONE likes them; it's just a leftist scare tactic. Most of their press comes from the left anyway. I'm not very knowledgeable on Roy Moore to comment on that, I thought he liked fondling younger girls, not being a neo nazi.
I think it's extremely unfair to portray Donald Trump as the sole divider of the US. I would put the blame as much on Barack Obama and the mainstream media. I think Trump is more of a reaction than the causation. Just watch the media and the democratic party now, they are not victims, it's a two way war with the POTUS (and they are getting crushed, which is why people like DJT more and more)
I do hope everyone tones it down at some point.
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On November 07 2018 02:52 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 01:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 01:14 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Way overestimating the significance of Trump's hardcore base. That is what the rallies represent. You're chugging kool aid here. Politicians don't win anything if they don't turn out their base. And I think you have it backwards. The real issue here is that you and most everyone else on the left are still chugging the kool aid being peddled to you by the Democrats and the media. Y'all were obviously hilariously off-base in the run up to the 2016 election, and there's not much to suggest that you have righted the course yet. We are not the ones saying Donald Trump is like Reagan. You need to remember you're talking about Donald Trump here. And it's funny that you're talking about people's predictions about who would win the election because I specifically remember you calling Trump a "clown" and predicting he was going to lose.
Yeah, I didn't like Trump before he announced his candidacy. I didn't even like him at the beginning of his campaign. And even after he secured the nomination, I wasn't sure that he wasn't a democrat in disguise. But if I knew then what I know now, I'd have held very different opinions. The difference between us is that I have altered my opinions of Trump as additional information has become available, whereas you have not. You, like most Democrats, are still serially underestimating him, even when there is a very real and growing possibility that he's about to inflict yet another catastrophic election defeat upon you.
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The main issue with Barack Obama was that he lied about being economically leftwing to get elected. But a close second is that he was looking for compromise waaaaay too much. He should have been much more of a divider than he was. Because he kept reaching for the middle, he allowed the leftwing position to be defined as extremely centrist, which in turn allows the position of the rightwingers now, who do not ever reach for the middle because they understand how politics work, to not look as extreme and divisive as it should look.
As usual, Overton prevails.
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On November 07 2018 03:57 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 03:25 iamthedave wrote:On November 07 2018 02:52 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 02:47 Doodsmack wrote:On November 07 2018 02:42 GoTuNk! wrote:On November 07 2018 01:10 xDaunt wrote:On November 07 2018 00:21 Danglars wrote:
Bring on more professed ignorance of rallies, but imagination of how this one went. Go get your summaries from the people that do your thinking for you. They’ll package up just the takes that will confirm your presuppositions.
The amazing grace moment was good. The candidate mounting the stage and reminding people what McCaskill really believes was good. Good laugh line from Sarah Huckabee Sanders. There are a few things that I find fascinating about Trump's rallies. The first and most obvious is the turnout. He held three rallies yesterday and drew thousands upon thousands of people to each of them. And he's been doing this consistently for the past two months. Obama had his moments with some large rallies, but never did anything like what Trump is doing. And that's before we get to the number of people watching these things online. There were at least 100,000 people watching the Missouri rally on the youtube streams, and that's before we get to TV and radio audiences. Trump obviously has the attention of the country in a way that no president has since at least Reagan. And this is reflected in the Republicans' performance in early voting. The raucous and party-like atmosphere is clearly contagious, even to other GOP politicians. Just look at "newfound" stars like Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who are now drawing huge cheers and standing ovations from Republican voters at Trump rallies or other venues. You can bet that they like the attention and are eager to keep the party going. To the extent that the #nevertrumpers still have any relevance, they are going to be squashed out of existence after this election. Trump owns the GOP now. The people have picked their champion. Sums it up. I can't overstate how good of an entertainer he is, Trump rallies are full blown parties. There are few sporting events I would enjoy as much as attending one of his rallies. The great thing about Trump I think is that for people on the right, even if they don't agree with some of his stuff (trade wars), everyone accepts he is the conservative hammer to destroy the MSM, the democratic party, and win elections. He stumbled across the finish line against a historically bad candidate. Oh common give him some credit. Trump isn't a moral compass, or a thought leader, but he weaseled his way trough to win the nomination, the election, and now owns the GOP. His charisma and general savviness is unquestionable. Hillary was a terrible candidate, but the GOP seemed hopeless and look it now. The question is how much of it is smoke and mirrors. The GOP did seem hopeless (much like the Democrats do now), and under Trump are more unified, and both of these things are good. But the question is, how much does it change the party? One thing that you should have noticed is that Trump-like candidates aren't doing so well. The more Trumpish people are the less popular they often tend to be. Trump has a special aura that lets him get away with all the outrageous shit he says and does, and I wish it wasn't so but fair enough he has that. What happens when he goes, though, and the GOP is still trying this stuff with candidates that don't have his aura? What if some of the more alarming side cases become more mainstream (the legit neo-nazi who ran as a Republican, Roy Moore), what happens then? The GOP would be right back to floundering, but even worse, they'd have learned a playbook that worked for one guy, potentially even one time (he hasn't won his second four years yet, remember). If enough side cases run for office, if any of them win, the Republican Party will find itself in another Tea Party situation, and that is the path to intra-party civil war. So yeah, I'll give Trump credit for unifying a broken base and getting to the Presidency. Those are very impressive achievements, irrespective of the Dems' missteps. I'm less enthused from a take-a-step-back, analytical look at where the GOP could find itself as a consequence. And I want to make clear I don't think that would be a good thing. A two party system breaks down spectacularly if one of those two parties stops functioning properly. Not to mention, what if Trump's Presidency marks the point of no return for political discourse, and this turgid mess is the way it's going to be going forward for decades? I don't think we can predict the future and what you are saying might be true, but I'll take my chances. Specially if we get another SCOTUS. I have 0++ consideration for neo nazis as a threat for anything, they are like 2000 people and NO ONE likes them; it's just a leftist scare tactic. Most of their press comes from the left anyway. I'm not very knowledgeable on Roy Moore to comment on that, I thought he liked fondling younger girls, not being a neo nazi. I think it's extremely unfair to portray Donald Trump as the sole divider of the US. I would put the blame as much on Barack Obama and the mainstream media. I think Trump is more of a reaction than the causation. Just watch the media and the democratic party now, they are not victims, it's a two way war with the POTUS (and they are getting crushed, which is why people like DJT more and more) I do hope everyone tones it down at some point.
you’ll need a little justification for blaming Barry O ‘as much.’ Can you provide any justification on the level of DJTs incessant attacks on unfavorable media, or public mockery of ‘Pocahontas,’ or especially the public mockery of private citizens from the office of president?
and to your point about Nazis, no, you don’t get a pass from DJT calling them very fine people. I’ll definitely give you ‘the left gives them more press,’ absolutely. but to say nobody likes them is a demonstrable lie. to call it a ‘leftist scare tactic,’ consequently is meaningless. Trump uses them far more, and to greater affect unfortunately (at least for my personal preference.)
reality and your description of it are once again at odds.
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One thing that definitely needs to happen after this election is that Nate Silver needs to be discarded as an election prediction guru.
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On November 07 2018 05:16 xDaunt wrote:
One thing that definitely needs to happen after this election is that Nate Silver needs to be discarded as an election prediction guru.
Justify this please.
Edit: sorry, this came across as more aggressive than I intended. But, uh, why are we discarding statistical modeling as an election predicter? Or just Silver specifically?
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EPT
