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Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 09 2018 03:05 GMT
#781
Everybody ready for presidential campaign season? It’s basically 3-4 months away no joke.

To be perfectly honest, I want Avenatti in it until the convention. Just for laughs. This guy does the Trump approach to media events and is a worthy rival.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23315 Posts
October 09 2018 04:36 GMT
#782
On October 09 2018 12:05 Danglars wrote:
Everybody ready for presidential campaign season? It’s basically 3-4 months away no joke.

To be perfectly honest, I want Avenatti in it until the convention. Just for laughs. This guy does the Trump approach to media events and is a worthy rival.


It's going to be a mess. Democrats are going to try to pretend shoving one establishment candidate after another down the electorate's throat is a "competitive primary", but it's already heavily set for Kamala to win the nomination (California, her home state, is on Super Tuesday now) And literally no one except maybe Biden and Warren have the nationwide appeal already to have the kind of ground game it's going to take to be competitive on Super Tuesday.

Booker is going to run as a boost to his national profile but with no intention of winning, merely securing a large enough group to give his endorsement some political value to bring back home.

But Bernie wins in a landslide if there's a crowded primary and he runs. Considering there is no progressive candidate for him to get behind at the moment I expect him to run.

I think Bernie wipes the floor with Trump in a heads-up race, particularly if Democrats really mean it when they say vote blue no matter who.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
October 09 2018 07:24 GMT
#783
On October 09 2018 13:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2018 12:05 Danglars wrote:
Everybody ready for presidential campaign season? It’s basically 3-4 months away no joke.

To be perfectly honest, I want Avenatti in it until the convention. Just for laughs. This guy does the Trump approach to media events and is a worthy rival.


It's going to be a mess. Democrats are going to try to pretend shoving one establishment candidate after another down the electorate's throat is a "competitive primary", but it's already heavily set for Kamala to win the nomination (California, her home state, is on Super Tuesday now) And literally no one except maybe Biden and Warren have the nationwide appeal already to have the kind of ground game it's going to take to be competitive on Super Tuesday.

Booker is going to run as a boost to his national profile but with no intention of winning, merely securing a large enough group to give his endorsement some political value to bring back home.

But Bernie wins in a landslide if there's a crowded primary and he runs. Considering there is no progressive candidate for him to get behind at the moment I expect him to run.

I think Bernie wipes the floor with Trump in a heads-up race, particularly if Democrats really mean it when they say vote blue no matter who.


I'd like to believe you but I feel like Bernie is left enough that he'll trigger red scare PTSD that could really get Conservative voters motivated. It would be very, very interesting to follow a Trump Presidency with a Sanders presidency, though. Just to see what that degree of whiplash does.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23315 Posts
October 09 2018 09:12 GMT
#784
On October 09 2018 16:24 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2018 13:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 09 2018 12:05 Danglars wrote:
Everybody ready for presidential campaign season? It’s basically 3-4 months away no joke.

To be perfectly honest, I want Avenatti in it until the convention. Just for laughs. This guy does the Trump approach to media events and is a worthy rival.


It's going to be a mess. Democrats are going to try to pretend shoving one establishment candidate after another down the electorate's throat is a "competitive primary", but it's already heavily set for Kamala to win the nomination (California, her home state, is on Super Tuesday now) And literally no one except maybe Biden and Warren have the nationwide appeal already to have the kind of ground game it's going to take to be competitive on Super Tuesday.

Booker is going to run as a boost to his national profile but with no intention of winning, merely securing a large enough group to give his endorsement some political value to bring back home.

But Bernie wins in a landslide if there's a crowded primary and he runs. Considering there is no progressive candidate for him to get behind at the moment I expect him to run.

I think Bernie wipes the floor with Trump in a heads-up race, particularly if Democrats really mean it when they say vote blue no matter who.


I'd like to believe you but I feel like Bernie is left enough that he'll trigger red scare PTSD that could really get Conservative voters motivated. It would be very, very interesting to follow a Trump Presidency with a Sanders presidency, though. Just to see what that degree of whiplash does.

I mean they are going to call whoever runs a communist anyway, might as well have someone who actually supports the social dem versions Democrats wont even give lip service to.

Also at least we're past the part that Hillary was bad because she was attacked and not because even when out of headlines for more than a year her approval is still awful while despite establishment Democrats and Republicans pshawing Bernie's ideas they're the most popular ones and he's the most popular politician in the country.

Meanwhile...


"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11559 Posts
October 09 2018 09:37 GMT
#785
I agree that setting up "tactical" candidates is probably not the best idea. Try to find people that people are actually enthusiastic about, not people who the republicans are not going to say mean stuff about, because those don't exist. If Jesus Christ ran as a democrat, republicans would find mean stuff to say about him.

The main problem i have with Bernie is that he is nearly 80 years old now. I think the US could do with a president that is of pre-retirement age for a change. Sure, people in their 70s will have more "accomplishments" than "a young person" in their 50s, but there is a reason why most of them are in retirement at that age.

So, the question is can you find a 20-30 years younger Bernie? And possibly put old Bernies support behind Young Bernie. That would be me ideal setup. I have no idea if that would win an election in the US, because apparently the US is insane and elected Trump, so they could vote for or against anything.
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 10:32:26
October 09 2018 10:30 GMT
#786
On October 09 2018 18:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2018 16:24 iamthedave wrote:
On October 09 2018 13:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 09 2018 12:05 Danglars wrote:
Everybody ready for presidential campaign season? It’s basically 3-4 months away no joke.

To be perfectly honest, I want Avenatti in it until the convention. Just for laughs. This guy does the Trump approach to media events and is a worthy rival.


It's going to be a mess. Democrats are going to try to pretend shoving one establishment candidate after another down the electorate's throat is a "competitive primary", but it's already heavily set for Kamala to win the nomination (California, her home state, is on Super Tuesday now) And literally no one except maybe Biden and Warren have the nationwide appeal already to have the kind of ground game it's going to take to be competitive on Super Tuesday.

Booker is going to run as a boost to his national profile but with no intention of winning, merely securing a large enough group to give his endorsement some political value to bring back home.

But Bernie wins in a landslide if there's a crowded primary and he runs. Considering there is no progressive candidate for him to get behind at the moment I expect him to run.

I think Bernie wipes the floor with Trump in a heads-up race, particularly if Democrats really mean it when they say vote blue no matter who.


I'd like to believe you but I feel like Bernie is left enough that he'll trigger red scare PTSD that could really get Conservative voters motivated. It would be very, very interesting to follow a Trump Presidency with a Sanders presidency, though. Just to see what that degree of whiplash does.

I mean they are going to call whoever runs a communist anyway, might as well have someone who actually supports the social dem versions Democrats wont even give lip service to.

Also at least we're past the part that Hillary was bad because she was attacked and not because even when out of headlines for more than a year her approval is still awful while despite establishment Democrats and Republicans pshawing Bernie's ideas they're the most popular ones and he's the most popular politician in the country.

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1049570658928263168


The hatred Americans have of the Clintons strikes me as pathological. There are tyrants and dictators in the world remembered more fondly than the Clintons. They seem to be the lightning rod to blame by both left and right for pretty much everything. So it doesn't surprise me that her approval ratings are really low. At best she represents old-democrats who are now out of fashion with the newer generation, and she still represents the main Democratic figure so she's the Republican boogeyman.

Which is funny because she's absolutely zero threat now. If anything her getting involved would be the best thing that could happen for Trump because he'd have a line of old attacks he could re-use.

Side note; It's funny looking at the parallels between Corbyn and Sanders, and how the super hip new up and coming liberals are latching onto these really old men :D I mean, Corbyn's 69.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 09 2018 13:14 GMT
#787
On October 09 2018 18:37 Simberto wrote:
I agree that setting up "tactical" candidates is probably not the best idea. Try to find people that people are actually enthusiastic about, not people who the republicans are not going to say mean stuff about, because those don't exist. If Jesus Christ ran as a democrat, republicans would find mean stuff to say about him.

The main problem i have with Bernie is that he is nearly 80 years old now. I think the US could do with a president that is of pre-retirement age for a change. Sure, people in their 70s will have more "accomplishments" than "a young person" in their 50s, but there is a reason why most of them are in retirement at that age.

So, the question is can you find a 20-30 years younger Bernie? And possibly put old Bernies support behind Young Bernie. That would be me ideal setup. I have no idea if that would win an election in the US, because apparently the US is insane and elected Trump, so they could vote for or against anything.

They’ll re-elect him too if the opposition party doesn’t get its shit together. And fast.

On October 09 2018 19:30 iamthedave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2018 18:12 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 09 2018 16:24 iamthedave wrote:
On October 09 2018 13:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
On October 09 2018 12:05 Danglars wrote:
Everybody ready for presidential campaign season? It’s basically 3-4 months away no joke.

To be perfectly honest, I want Avenatti in it until the convention. Just for laughs. This guy does the Trump approach to media events and is a worthy rival.


It's going to be a mess. Democrats are going to try to pretend shoving one establishment candidate after another down the electorate's throat is a "competitive primary", but it's already heavily set for Kamala to win the nomination (California, her home state, is on Super Tuesday now) And literally no one except maybe Biden and Warren have the nationwide appeal already to have the kind of ground game it's going to take to be competitive on Super Tuesday.

Booker is going to run as a boost to his national profile but with no intention of winning, merely securing a large enough group to give his endorsement some political value to bring back home.

But Bernie wins in a landslide if there's a crowded primary and he runs. Considering there is no progressive candidate for him to get behind at the moment I expect him to run.

I think Bernie wipes the floor with Trump in a heads-up race, particularly if Democrats really mean it when they say vote blue no matter who.


I'd like to believe you but I feel like Bernie is left enough that he'll trigger red scare PTSD that could really get Conservative voters motivated. It would be very, very interesting to follow a Trump Presidency with a Sanders presidency, though. Just to see what that degree of whiplash does.

I mean they are going to call whoever runs a communist anyway, might as well have someone who actually supports the social dem versions Democrats wont even give lip service to.

Also at least we're past the part that Hillary was bad because she was attacked and not because even when out of headlines for more than a year her approval is still awful while despite establishment Democrats and Republicans pshawing Bernie's ideas they're the most popular ones and he's the most popular politician in the country.

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1049570658928263168


The hatred Americans have of the Clintons strikes me as pathological. There are tyrants and dictators in the world remembered more fondly than the Clintons. They seem to be the lightning rod to blame by both left and right for pretty much everything. So it doesn't surprise me that her approval ratings are really low. At best she represents old-democrats who are now out of fashion with the newer generation, and she still represents the main Democratic figure so she's the Republican boogeyman.

Which is funny because she's absolutely zero threat now. If anything her getting involved would be the best thing that could happen for Trump because he'd have a line of old attacks he could re-use.

Side note; It's funny looking at the parallels between Corbyn and Sanders, and how the super hip new up and coming liberals are latching onto these really old men :D I mean, Corbyn's 69.

Stealing a primary, covering for her rapist husband, and trading influence for money for years has that effect. The pathology is why people forget blameworthy acts for a narrative that she’s receiving undue blame.

Now, if she had a winning personality and an ounce of political acumen, some of this might be forgotten or forgiven by more people.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 09 2018 13:43 GMT
#788
The Democrat who can beat Trump hasn’t emerged yet. Spartacus, Pocahontas, and Harris don’t have the chops. That said, I think the larger issue is that the election is currently Trump’s to lose. He’s got things rolling downhill in a pretty good way.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 14:27:04
October 09 2018 14:25 GMT
#789
If the election were held in 2018 then I think Trump would win re-election by at least a popular vote. He isn’t great, he isn’t popular, but Democrats haven’t managed to make a case for any viable alternative.

The past two DNC’s have shown a dearth of viable talent in the talent pool, which is worrisome at the least.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 14:51:18
October 09 2018 14:44 GMT
#790
Hrm, Haley resigned. I wonder what she did. Maybe she wrote that anonymous NYT op-ed. Too bad. She was widely considered to be on the short list of GOP presidential contenders post-Trump.

EDIT: Well, could be that she just wants to step aside as the reports say.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 09 2018 14:53 GMT
#791
On October 09 2018 23:25 LegalLord wrote:
If the election were held in 2018 then I think Trump would win re-election by at least a popular vote. He isn’t great, he isn’t popular, but Democrats haven’t managed to make a case for any viable alternative.

The past two DNC’s have shown a dearth of viable talent in the talent pool, which is worrisome at the least.

This is one of the things that I have previously pointed out. The Democrats' bench got really, really thin during the Obama years. Yeah, Obama was president, but the Democrats subsequently got hammered at the state level across the country, eliminating much of their political talent.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 09 2018 14:55 GMT
#792
Haley news is truly unexpected. America is losing an excellent UN Ambassador.

The leak machine is so primed this presidential term that I'm sure we'll find out what's behind this soon.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 15:07:21
October 09 2018 15:06 GMT
#793
Back to the main event....

Two senior FBI officials told the bureau’s top lawyer they believed Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein was “serious” when he discussed secretly recording President Trump and invoking the 25th Amendment to remove him from office last year, according to sources close to a congressional investigation – an account that conflicts with claims from Rosenstein and others that the comments either were inaccurately reported or made in jest.

Former FBI General Counsel James A. Baker told congressional investigators during a closed-door deposition last week that then-FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe and FBI lawyer Lisa Page came to Baker "contemporaneously" after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey in May 2017. Baker said Page and McCabe relayed details of the meeting where Rosenstein made the comments.

Though he wasn't personally in that meeting, Baker told congressional investigators he took McCabe and Page's account “seriously,” the sources said. Further, Baker told congressional investigators he suspected “Rosenstein was coordinating with two people in the administration to invoke the 25th Amendment,” a source said.

Baker, whose testimony was described as deliberate and sober, added he had not done a legal analysis and was unsure whether it was “unethical or illegal,” the source added.

The testimony would appear at odds with other accounts of those explosive discussions.


Source.

This certainly begs at least a couple of questions. First, who would be two other administration officials with whom Rosenstein was coordinating? Second, why is Trump keeping Rosenstein around? The only answer that makes sense with regards to why Trump hasn't canned Rosenstein is that he has flipped him and is using him to turn this whole mess around. Rosenstein will be testifying this week, so he may spill the beans then. This is shaping up to be a monumental scandal.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23315 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 15:39:06
October 09 2018 15:36 GMT
#794
I'll come back to some other things later but the Haley thing is so that they have another Kavanaugh like fight for mid-terms and it works out well for Haley. Finally it works out for the more hawkish part of Trumps shift in State, CIA, etc...

Pretty much a win-win-win and -win if you count spinning rumors up in the media. I expect him to float some names at an upcoming campaign event and judge the crowds reaction.

Expect him to float at least one troll name like Sarah Palin.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2655 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 15:43:55
October 09 2018 15:43 GMT
#795
On October 10 2018 00:06 xDaunt wrote:
Back to the main event....

Show nested quote +
Two senior FBI officials told the bureau’s top lawyer they believed Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein was “serious” when he discussed secretly recording President Trump and invoking the 25th Amendment to remove him from office last year, according to sources close to a congressional investigation – an account that conflicts with claims from Rosenstein and others that the comments either were inaccurately reported or made in jest.

Former FBI General Counsel James A. Baker told congressional investigators during a closed-door deposition last week that then-FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe and FBI lawyer Lisa Page came to Baker "contemporaneously" after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey in May 2017. Baker said Page and McCabe relayed details of the meeting where Rosenstein made the comments.

Though he wasn't personally in that meeting, Baker told congressional investigators he took McCabe and Page's account “seriously,” the sources said. Further, Baker told congressional investigators he suspected “Rosenstein was coordinating with two people in the administration to invoke the 25th Amendment,” a source said.

Baker, whose testimony was described as deliberate and sober, added he had not done a legal analysis and was unsure whether it was “unethical or illegal,” the source added.

The testimony would appear at odds with other accounts of those explosive discussions.


Source.

This certainly begs at least a couple of questions. First, who would be two other administration officials with whom Rosenstein was coordinating? Second, why is Trump keeping Rosenstein around? The only answer that makes sense with regards to why Trump hasn't canned Rosenstein is that he has flipped him and is using him to turn this whole mess around. Rosenstein will be testifying this week, so he may spill the beans then. This is shaping up to be a monumental scandal.


The reporting about Rosenstein has been notoriously terrible for a while. If we go back to before the Era of Kavanaugh, there was a day where multiple different large media outlets alternately claimed that Rosenstein had been fired, had resigned, had refused to resign and then been fired, etc. And it all turned out to be totally wrong. There were also the claims about Rosenstein and 25th amendment and secretly recording conversations with the President, which were also all called out as false.

So I will wait to see if any other outlet starts picking up this reporting and see how Rosenstein responds before making any judgement about it.

The only answer that makes sense with regards to why Trump hasn't canned Rosenstein is that he has flipped him and is using him to turn this whole mess around. Rosenstein will be testifying this week, so he may spill the beans then.


What exactly do you think Trump is secretly doing with Rosenstein? What is this mess you speak of?

I know there are some conservative commentators who take the spirit of this post further and claim that Jeff Sessions is secretly working with Trump as well. Do you think that too?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 09 2018 16:20 GMT
#796
On October 10 2018 00:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2018 00:06 xDaunt wrote:
Back to the main event....

Two senior FBI officials told the bureau’s top lawyer they believed Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein was “serious” when he discussed secretly recording President Trump and invoking the 25th Amendment to remove him from office last year, according to sources close to a congressional investigation – an account that conflicts with claims from Rosenstein and others that the comments either were inaccurately reported or made in jest.

Former FBI General Counsel James A. Baker told congressional investigators during a closed-door deposition last week that then-FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe and FBI lawyer Lisa Page came to Baker "contemporaneously" after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey in May 2017. Baker said Page and McCabe relayed details of the meeting where Rosenstein made the comments.

Though he wasn't personally in that meeting, Baker told congressional investigators he took McCabe and Page's account “seriously,” the sources said. Further, Baker told congressional investigators he suspected “Rosenstein was coordinating with two people in the administration to invoke the 25th Amendment,” a source said.

Baker, whose testimony was described as deliberate and sober, added he had not done a legal analysis and was unsure whether it was “unethical or illegal,” the source added.

The testimony would appear at odds with other accounts of those explosive discussions.


Source.

This certainly begs at least a couple of questions. First, who would be two other administration officials with whom Rosenstein was coordinating? Second, why is Trump keeping Rosenstein around? The only answer that makes sense with regards to why Trump hasn't canned Rosenstein is that he has flipped him and is using him to turn this whole mess around. Rosenstein will be testifying this week, so he may spill the beans then. This is shaping up to be a monumental scandal.


The reporting about Rosenstein has been notoriously terrible for a while. If we go back to before the Era of Kavanaugh, there was a day where multiple different large media outlets alternately claimed that Rosenstein had been fired, had resigned, had refused to resign and then been fired, etc. And it all turned out to be totally wrong. There were also the claims about Rosenstein and 25th amendment and secretly recording conversations with the President, which were also all called out as false.

So I will wait to see if any other outlet starts picking up this reporting and see how Rosenstein responds before making any judgement about it.

Show nested quote +
The only answer that makes sense with regards to why Trump hasn't canned Rosenstein is that he has flipped him and is using him to turn this whole mess around. Rosenstein will be testifying this week, so he may spill the beans then.


What exactly do you think Trump is secretly doing with Rosenstein? What is this mess you speak of?

I know there are some conservative commentators who take the spirit of this post further and claim that Jeff Sessions is secretly working with Trump as well. Do you think that too?

I have no idea what the deal with Sessions is. I tend to think that he's on his way out after the election, but we'll see.

As for Rosenstein, I do believe that he was prepared to tender his resignation after that NYT story, and that Trump turned him down. Specifically, I think that Trump wants to leverage whatever he knows about Rosenstein to use Rosenstein to help complete the purge/cleanup of the DOJ and FBI. If you look at the power structure of those two entities, almost everyone has been fired, demoted, or forced to resign. Something very clearly is going on over there, and by all appearances, it seems like the apparent impropriety of the FBI's investigation into Carter page and the Trump campaign is the issue. Even the Mueller investigation is winding down. Lots of attorneys have been leaving the team. Unsurprisingly, now that the Kavanaugh nomination is over, the information about this scandal is starting to come out again. I have absolutely no doubt that Trump and his people are purposefully managing this release of information for maximum political effect. We're going to have a pretty good idea what's going on in the next week or so.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-09 16:26:09
October 09 2018 16:25 GMT
#797
Bloomberg just rolled out more evidence in support of their story about Chinese compromising Supremicro infrastructure:

A major U.S. telecommunications company discovered manipulated hardware from Super Micro Computer Inc. in its network and removed it in August, fresh evidence of tampering in China of critical technology components bound for the U.S., according to a security expert working for the telecom company.

The security expert, Yossi Appleboum, provided documents, analysis and other evidence of the discovery following the publication of an investigative report in Bloomberg Businessweek that detailed how China’s intelligence services had ordered subcontractors to plant malicious chips in Supermicro server motherboards over a two-year period ending in 2015.

Appleboum previously worked in the technology unit of the Israeli Army Intelligence Corps and is now co-chief executive officer of Sepio Systems in Gaithersburg, Maryland. His firm specializes in hardware security and was hired to scan several large data centers belonging to the telecommunications company. Bloomberg is not identifying the company due to Appleboum’s nondisclosure agreement with the client. Unusual communications from a Supermicro server and a subsequent physical inspection revealed an implant built into the server’s Ethernet connector, a component that's used to attach network cables to the computer, Appleboum said.

The executive said he has seen similar manipulations of different vendors' computer hardware made by contractors in China, not just products from Supermicro. “Supermicro is a victim -- so is everyone else,” he said. Appleboum said his concern is that there are countless points in the supply chain in China where manipulations can be introduced, and deducing them can in many cases be impossible. “That's the problem with the Chinese supply chain,” he said.


Source.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12268 Posts
October 09 2018 17:16 GMT
#798
On October 09 2018 18:37 Simberto wrote:
I agree that setting up "tactical" candidates is probably not the best idea. Try to find people that people are actually enthusiastic about, not people who the republicans are not going to say mean stuff about, because those don't exist. If Jesus Christ ran as a democrat, republicans would find mean stuff to say about him.

The main problem i have with Bernie is that he is nearly 80 years old now. I think the US could do with a president that is of pre-retirement age for a change. Sure, people in their 70s will have more "accomplishments" than "a young person" in their 50s, but there is a reason why most of them are in retirement at that age.

So, the question is can you find a 20-30 years younger Bernie? And possibly put old Bernies support behind Young Bernie. That would be me ideal setup. I have no idea if that would win an election in the US, because apparently the US is insane and elected Trump, so they could vote for or against anything.


Can't really find one before 2020, it takes time to build that much momentum. If we run someone younger hoping that the message carries them we run the risk of coming up just short like Bernie did in 2016. The best bet is still Bernie imo, I understand your concern but the advantages trump the inconvenients in my view.
No will to live, no wish to die
Howie_Dewitt
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1416 Posts
October 10 2018 01:00 GMT
#799
On October 10 2018 02:16 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2018 18:37 Simberto wrote:
I agree that setting up "tactical" candidates is probably not the best idea. Try to find people that people are actually enthusiastic about, not people who the republicans are not going to say mean stuff about, because those don't exist. If Jesus Christ ran as a democrat, republicans would find mean stuff to say about him.

The main problem i have with Bernie is that he is nearly 80 years old now. I think the US could do with a president that is of pre-retirement age for a change. Sure, people in their 70s will have more "accomplishments" than "a young person" in their 50s, but there is a reason why most of them are in retirement at that age.

So, the question is can you find a 20-30 years younger Bernie? And possibly put old Bernies support behind Young Bernie. That would be me ideal setup. I have no idea if that would win an election in the US, because apparently the US is insane and elected Trump, so they could vote for or against anything.


Can't really find one before 2020, it takes time to build that much momentum. If we run someone younger hoping that the message carries them we run the risk of coming up just short like Bernie did in 2016. The best bet is still Bernie imo, I understand your concern but the advantages trump the inconvenients in my view.

In my opinion, there's also a huge problem with having a candidate found before 2020. I heard so many people who were upset that Hillary was essentially presumed to be the Democratic nominee before the primaries even started. The Democratic National Committee has the optics of being similar to an exclusive golf club, where everything is between a few insiders; Hillary being the establishment candidate reinforced this and was also reinforced by it. It made the primaries feel pointless, as if the voters choosing the nominee was an illusion.

Picking another candidate before the race is really underway will just look like the same old thing that disgusted the far left, which should be the Democratic party's most reliable voters. Even if they agree on a candidate beforehand (I sure hope they fucking don't), the optics of successors and heirs need to be avoided at all costs. That would be handing Trump a 2020 victory.
Sisyphus had a good gig going, the disappointment was predictable. | Visions of the Country (1978) is for when you're lost.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 10 2018 01:30 GMT
#800
I don’t think that Democrats have to worry about there being a presumptive nominee again. Hillary was a very special case in that she had the right last name, wielded tremendous power in the political apparatus, and had been passed over once already after which she worked out a deal to ensure that 2016 was “her turn.”
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