|
|
28088 Posts
Looking at HPS can be a bit misleading at times imo. There's way more factors that go into HPS compared to DPS or other similar metrics. And looking at a single metric is always bad anyway even if it's a fairly good one.
My advice is to just simply focus on perfecting your rotation and take as little unnecessary damage as you can each dungeon. If you are doing that to the best of your abilities and still not completing dungeons then you can start assuming it's the healers fault. Otherwise just focus on improving your own gameplay and you will be carrying the terrible healers in no time 
My honest opinion is that if you're 367 and having trouble in a 5 it's going to be at least partly your fault. Also to answer your last question, some of the best M+ groups in the world are currently running DH tanks.
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Quoting
----------------------------------------------------------------
Throughout the discussions regarding Azerite Armor, there’s been a lot of talk about how you earn Azerite pieces from Mythic+ dungeons. Players have told us – and we agree – that the process of earning Azerite Armor through Mythic+ feels overly based on luck, and that there isn’t enough control in the players’ hands. Even with our bad luck protection systems in place, the sheer number of potential Azerite pieces you can get from the weekly chest means that trying to get ahold of a specific piece feels hopeless.
That’s a problem we want to solve, and give you some control over the Azerite gear you earn through Mythic+. So here’s what we’re working on for Tides of Vengeance:
First, we’re adding a new (as yet unnamed) currency, which you’ll earn from your weekly Mythic+ chest as well as from scrapping (or disenchanting) epic-quality Azerite Armor. This currency is rewarded in addition to the item in the chest (which can no longer be an Azerite piece), and the amount you earn will scale up exponentially based on the highest level Keystone you’ve completed. For example, completing a level 10 Keystone will reward you with about three times as much as clearing a level 7. Similarly, scrapping higher-item-level Azerite pieces will give you significantly higher amounts of this currency than lower-level pieces.
To spend that currency, we’re bringing back an old friend: Thaumaturge Vashreen. He’ll have two main types of items for sale. The first are caches that reward a random dungeon Azerite Armor piece for a given slot (helm, shoulders, or chest). They’ll be separated out by item level as well (at 355, 370, and 385), with higher item level caches requiring significantly more currency to purchase.
But we recognize that with six or more options per slot, this may still not be enough control for high-end players who want to be able to work towards a specific piece that perfectly complements their build. Thus, Vashreen will also offer Item Level 385 versions of the specific dungeon Azerite Armor pieces for each class, sold at a premium.
We’re still nailing down the exact numbers, but our goal for tuning this new currency is that you’ll be able to purchase one of the Azerite caches that lines up roughly with the item level of the gear you’re getting from your Mythic+ runs every two or three weeks, with the specific 385 pieces as long-term goals for top players.
Overall, we believe that this change will improve things in a lot of different ways:
Mythic+ players of all skill levels will now have a clear path to upgrading their Azerite slots
High-end Mythic+ players will have a way to target specific Azerite pieces to optimize their setups
Duplicate or unwanted Azerite pieces from other sources (such as raiding) now have some additional value
The piece of gear in your weekly chest will have a more reliable item level
You should see all of this hitting the Tides of Vengeance PTR sometime in the next week or so. We really do appreciate your feedback, and believe that this, in addition to the new traits and other improvements coming to the Azerite system in Tides of Vengeance, will help ease a lot of the concerns about Azerite Armor in Mythic+ and as a whole.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Looks good, although taking 2 or 3 weeks to earn a 370 from clearing mythic 10's is a very long time. We get far more from the Emissary system, we've had at least 4 of them since it was tweaked already.
I wonder how long the 385's would take and if there's a cap on the reward for higher key levels - does that mean that a level 16 key would give 9x more currency than a 10?
This also seems to be further confirmation that 8.1 will ship a good while before season 2 which is siege of zuldazar, new m+ ilvls, new azerite circle and stuff.
|
You still have other ways to obtain better ilvl azerite gear. I'm perfectly fine with 2-3 weeks. This shouldn't be something you can utilize every week to gear yourself. What would be the point of that?
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
It's not clear if he meant 370 or 385 for 10's with that comment, i guess it could go either way. I originally read it as 370's.
We get like 5 or 6 random 370's from emissaries in that time and most of them are already not upgrades, in 2 months time when the patch is live and we've collected those weeks of currency they won't be worth anything to people who have been playing - it'll just be catchup gear for new players. 385 would be another story.
You still have other ways to obtain better ilvl azerite gear.
Mythic raiding and mythic raiding with a side of mythic raiding. Some of the best pieces don't even drop in Uldir, so they'll become unobtainable outside of this system. The details are too important to shrug off.
|
On October 20 2018 07:21 Cyro wrote:The point is that he said 2-3 weeks for a random 370, not a 385 piece. We get like 5 or 6 random 370's from emissaries in that time and most of them are already not upgrades, in 2 months time when the patch is live and we've collected those weeks of currency they won't be worth anything to people who have been playing - it'll just be catchup gear for new players. Mythic raiding and mythic raiding with a side of mythic raiding. Some of the best pieces don't even drop in Uldir, so they'll become unobtainable outside of this system. The details are too important to shrug off.
We’re still nailing down the exact numbers, but our goal for tuning this new currency is that you’ll be able to purchase one of the Azerite caches that lines up roughly with the item level of the gear you’re getting from your Mythic+ runs every two or three weeks
Am i understanding this wrong?
Also, have you looked at the next raids loot table? There should be upgrades simply because of the higher ilvl.
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I derped something, corrected a bit there.
The next raid isn't coming with 8.1. We're getting the patch with class changes, game engine changes and stuff including this vendor etc and then all indications are that the new raid/season is going live months later - early Q1 next year.
|
On October 20 2018 07:27 Cyro wrote:
I derped something, corrected a bit there.
The next raid isn't coming with 8.1, we're getting the patch with class changes and stuff including this vendor and then all indications are that the new raid/season is going live next year.
Sorry, I've completely missed it if Blizzard has said that the raids won't come with 8.1 (Tides of Vengeance). Care to show me where that information is?
Every site is saying the raids, new warfronts and whatnot are coming with 8.1.
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
The data for them is in the patch but the "season change" aka unlock date isn't tied to the patch any more. They won't delay the patch for 2 months because they don't want the raid to go live yet when the other stuff in the patch like the warfront is ready to go.
Every raid in the 3.5 years previous to this one has released 2-3 months after the patch that it came with, exception for TOV which was squished in between EN and Nighthold with only a 2 week wait after the patch that added it. We could see that for the new 2-boss raid.
Even "World of Warcraft 7.2: The Tomb of Sargeras" released 3 months before Tomb of Sargeras did; they learned their lesson on that one and stopped naming the patches after the raids which is why we have the more ambiguous Tides of Darkness now.
This vendor is specifically quoted as having 355/370/385 gear which is current for season 1; the timelines suggested imply that 385 will be top end gear for a while (couple months) after the patch drops which is not imminent yet, so even more time. This and other little bits of information here and there reinforce the idea that they're sticking to the Legion model rather than changing it.
Season 2 will bump the weekly chest, raid and azerite ilvls by probably 30 (15 is too few for blizzard although there's some chance of 45) which means that high end azerite gear would be 415-430 and the weekly chest would be 410 or 425. That weekly would require a level 15 cleared instead of a 10.
|
Real takeaway is. bank all epic azerite pieces to scrap/disenchant later! good to know!
joking aside, seems like an improvement for sure. I have not gone one pieces of 385 azerite gear from chest OR seen a single one drop in heroic raid or mythic mother. its insane.
|
Couple quick clarifications based on feedback so far:
Only Azerite Armor that drops after Tides of Vengeance is released will scrap/disenchant into the new currency. Don't worry about hoarding the Azerite pieces you're earning now.
When the next Mythic+ season starts, and item levels increase, the item levels of Thaumaturge Vashreen's wares will increase accordingly.
We recognize that PvPers want more options and choice too. We're talking about that separately.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769667833?page=7#post-136
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
When the next Mythic+ season starts, and item levels increase, the item levels of Thaumaturge Vashreen's wares will increase accordingly.
So now the question has shifted.. Is currency reset to zero on the season change? Can we choose to buy a 385 now or hoard the currency to buy a 415 on season change date? Lots of details lol
It does confirm that 8.1 will ship before the season change.
|
On October 20 2018 07:59 Atreides wrote:
Real takeaway is. bank all epic azerite pieces to scrap/disenchant later! good to know!
joking aside, seems like an improvement for sure. I have not gone one pieces of 385 azerite gear from chest OR seen a single one drop in heroic raid or mythic mother. its insane. If you've been doing your +10's diligently you should be getting one from bad luck protection soon(tm). Tho ofcourse there is no guarantee it won't be your worst possible piece.
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I can also confirm no guarantee that your BLP won't be wasted by resetting when you get the same piece over and over again 
at least til 8.1 drops
|
They tweeted again saying any azerite armor piece you get before the patch won't be scrappable.
|
Wish it hit now so I can get rid of all my banked azerite gear.
|
i mean i got an azerite piece week 1, when i didnt clear a 10. cleared 10+ every week since, no azerite gear. (my brother has 3x385 azerite from chest) I also clear heroic with guild and pug first 2 mythic every week and have not seen one single azerite piece. lol. (I use a 355 one for array) I mean, this is just variance but yeah its annoying. There has always been some level of unlucky with drops though. It really doesn't bother me as much as a lot of people. I raided an entire tier in wotlk where all I really wanted was a single trinket that was godly for arena without seeing it, people acting like the ability to just be unlucky is new in wow are kind of silly.
(incidentally I have not seen a ranged weapon higher than 340 the entire expansion in pve. not one. Thank god for arena, its only reason my gear is competitive. lol)
I've actually never been as unlucky overall as this expansion though.
Anyways I like most of the changes, they are in the right direction.
|
On October 20 2018 06:26 Mohdoo wrote:
I have a really hard time being able to tell when a healer is bad or if I'm bad as a tank. I've absolutely blasted through mythic 7 dungeons, but last night, it was like all I could do was die in a mythic 5. All I basically do to assess if a healer is good or not is look at HPS. But maybe that's not a good metric. In my experience, a good healer is basically always at 90% mana and seems incapable of dropping any lower. But I don't have a clue how that would make sense. I've just noticed that during dungeons I don't die in, my healer is always at high mana.
Right now, after all the advice from everyone here, I feel like I am doing a lot better. But it also feels like I just get absolutely clobbered sometimes. Are DHs hard to heal? We ain't blood DKs, sure, but maybe that is why some healers easily heal me while others seem totally lost and unable to keep me alive. I'm at 367 ilvl in my tank gear, so I have a hard time thinking I am just too squishy for a +5...
Without being rude, i don't think you've ever played a healer so far?
HPS, for example. If HPS is high, your group sucks. High HPS means the healer has to heal a lot. That also means he won't be sitting on 90% mana.
In dungeons that you don't die in, and the healer has high mana, pretty much means that the group avoided damage. Most healers are somewhat efficient single target, but drop like flies once they have to pump groupheals.
From my experience, DHs are not the worst tanks to heal (biggest problems so far with druids and warriors), but very "spikey". If you get hit, you get hit properly. Like, unmistakably.
My tip: don't look at the healer, look at damage taken for you, and for the group. That's a very simple metric to figure out where the problem lies. If you take 70% of the total damage inc in a dungeon, no healer will have a problem whatsoever. If you take 40% of total damage, healer have to fucking do yoga n shit on their keyboards to keep everyone alive.
No healer is unable to solely heal a tank through anything. If a healer spams his fast/inefficient heal (flashheal etc), you won't die. Mana will drop, but you won't - problem arises when the rest of the group drops constantly too. You usually don't have that many GCDs to constantly keep the group up while not letting the tank drop.
If some healers heal you no problem, others have trouble, then you have to look at the other variables. From my experience healing, it's at least three out of four times a shitty group that forces me to make decisions about who lives and who dies - and as someone who played healer for more than a decade now, letting someone die goes against "instinct", you instinctively try to keep even the manasponges alive, which of course most of the times ends in a wipe.
That's not to say that there's no shitty healers, of course there are. But asking "either healer is shit or me" is kinda weird, considering that probably 8 out of 10 times a shitty DD is responsible for wiping the group - either directly or indirectly.
If you are doing that to the best of your abilities and still not completing dungeons then you can start assuming it's the healers fault.
That's what i mean. The hell is up with that? If he's doing the best he can, the second step is to check if the rest of the group does so too, not "lol healer sucks". Honestly, comments like that piss me off, DD feel way too entitled to their own bullshit. Especially in M+ where you can't just let people die constantly and rez them afterwards if you actually want to finish in time.
|
28088 Posts
I mean it's not like I said DPS couldn't also be the issue...
Feel like you're reading way too much into what I said there.
|
Eh? You literally said "if you're not the problem, then assume it's the healer".
There's nothing to read into there.
edit: you said it twice, in fact.
Here's the thing. Shit drops from top to bottom. Every single mistake made by the tank and the DD is accumulated on the healer. That includes not kicking and crowd controlling, or knocking something out of CC.
There's a limit to how many mistakes by DDs and Tanks a healer can iron out. Again, it's not to say that there's no shitty healers out there, jesus there are. But especially in PUGs, the vast majority of problems lies with the DD, not the healers. Mythic isn't designed to be played with sinister strike and dispatch only.
|
28088 Posts
You have to realize that you're getting upset simply because I didn't add "and DPS" somewhere in my sentence. We were talking about healers so I just happened to mention healers. It's obviously way more complicated than that and I'm sure everyone in this thread knows that. My point in that post was more about gaming in general than WoW itself. If you want me to go back and change "healers" to "party" I can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
