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I am rather surprised that the patch hasn't already hit after Ion's pre-BFA talks about "We'll fix the remaining classes and specs in the first patch". So I expect patch 8.1 to hit right after Blizzcon but most content (except class changes, aazerite changes and first story chapters) to be heavily on hold and the raid to maybe be 2-3 months after 8.1 is released.
Not sure if that helps you Nony or if I'm right but I'd put my money on 8.1 right after Blizzcon and then the content will unlock as the weeks go by after that.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
The reworks are very much a work in progress. Ele shaman just got changes and is still iterating since the first suggested changes were very poorly received. Enhance has had limited/no changes(??) and shadow is NYI - No patch notes and they can't even log into the 8.1 PTR because Voidform was removed from the game without all of the references to it being removed so they just crash on the loading screen.
Just from a testing, iteration and polish POV i think an early nov launch would be rushed. They could launch during the holiday time (later nov to december) like 7.1.5 did but have the raid and season 2 saved for the calm after new year.
The azerite 4'th tier is due for season 2, so the new raid and m+/pvp season. Some of the other changes were said to be introduced in hotfixes in the near future, so they're not tied to the 8.1 patch at all.
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8751 Posts
Hopefully they at least get the 370 azerite gear from emissaries in very soon.
Although it kind of already doesn't matter for top tier players who likely already have 385 in 2-3 slots. Or at least it's just annoying to them that they have to do WQ's again and possibly use a 370 with better traits that they got from saving baby turtles over the 385 they got from mythic g'huun.
If your ilvl is 380+ I don't see why you wouldn't get 385 gear from the emissaries. If you've already earned enough gear from other areas of the game to be 380 then it's not like that gear isn't earned just because it's from a WQ. I wonder why they cap it like that. I think if you're clearing mythic uldir enough to be 380 or you are grinding so much mythic+ that you are 380 then you've earned competitive azerite gear handouts from WQ's just like players who have achieved less than you.
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On October 06 2018 03:43 NonY wrote: Hopefully they at least get the 370 azerite gear from emissaries in very soon.
Although it kind of already doesn't matter for top tier players who likely already have 385 in 2-3 slots. Or at least it's just annoying to them that they have to do WQ's again and possibly use a 370 with better traits that they got from saving baby turtles over the 385 they got from mythic g'huun.
If your ilvl is 380+ I don't see why you wouldn't get 385 gear from the emissaries. If you've already earned enough gear from other areas of the game to be 380 then it's not like that gear isn't earned just because it's from a WQ. I wonder why they cap it like that. I think if you're clearing mythic uldir enough to be 380 or you are grinding so much mythic+ that you are 380 then you've earned competitive azerite gear handouts from WQ's just like players who have achieved less than you.
Sammeeee trait improvements are marginal for me but id like to get some tank pieces
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On October 06 2018 03:43 NonY wrote: Hopefully they at least get the 370 azerite gear from emissaries in very soon.
Although it kind of already doesn't matter for top tier players who likely already have 385 in 2-3 slots. Or at least it's just annoying to them that they have to do WQ's again and possibly use a 370 with better traits that they got from saving baby turtles over the 385 they got from mythic g'huun.
If your ilvl is 380+ I don't see why you wouldn't get 385 gear from the emissaries. If you've already earned enough gear from other areas of the game to be 380 then it's not like that gear isn't earned just because it's from a WQ. I wonder why they cap it like that. I think if you're clearing mythic uldir enough to be 380 or you are grinding so much mythic+ that you are 380 then you've earned competitive azerite gear handouts from WQ's just like players who have achieved less than you. What 370 traits are better than 385 mythic raid traits+ more stats?
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i actually detest raiding so much. Im suffering through mythich mother pug just cuz im that desperate for azerite gear cuz no m+ chest luck. heh
its not even hard, i dont have to play good or do shit, the only people earning it are the leaders who are trying to herd 20 baboons. I just have to suffer for 1.5 hrs for chance at good loot...
edit: for clarity its the stupid stack 8 dh +other defensives run through wall all at same time cheese strat which is extraordinarily easy if people just do it. Most of the time is spent waiting for perfect group composition and kicking total idiots who just die instantly on first wall transition. Mad props to the people willing to put these pugs together I guess. It really seems terrible. w/e I kill it but i have still not seen the shoulders off mother on any difficulty yet. heh
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qq warning
fuck it must feel good to be a noskill rogue that sits in stealth all day
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On October 06 2018 10:53 Stancel wrote: qq warning
fuck it must feel good to be a noskill rogue that sits in stealth all day what class do you play
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8751 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:09 Tappo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2018 03:43 NonY wrote: Hopefully they at least get the 370 azerite gear from emissaries in very soon.
Although it kind of already doesn't matter for top tier players who likely already have 385 in 2-3 slots. Or at least it's just annoying to them that they have to do WQ's again and possibly use a 370 with better traits that they got from saving baby turtles over the 385 they got from mythic g'huun.
If your ilvl is 380+ I don't see why you wouldn't get 385 gear from the emissaries. If you've already earned enough gear from other areas of the game to be 380 then it's not like that gear isn't earned just because it's from a WQ. I wonder why they cap it like that. I think if you're clearing mythic uldir enough to be 380 or you are grinding so much mythic+ that you are 380 then you've earned competitive azerite gear handouts from WQ's just like players who have achieved less than you. What 370 traits are better than 385 mythic raid traits+ more stats? I'm not 100% sure but for me personally, I can't use Laser Matrix because I primarily play mythic+ and it pulls far away mobs that you're not in combat with. So for the Laser Matrix Uldir pieces that leaves only one other choice for the outer ring. And for Monks, the 2nd ring is always 1 dps trait, 1 healing trait and 1 tanking trait. So if the one healing trait isn't very helpful then there's no other option. The dps and tank traits aren't always totally useless for healers but they're not great.
I don't have enough 370/385 pieces that I've had to figure it out yet but I definitely see it as a possibility. Some outer ring traits do 2.5% of my healing in a useful way and some 2nd ring traits do 1.5% in a useful way while some other traits aren't quite so helpful or managing so much HPS.
Even the 3rd ring can come into play because some of them are completely useless while resounding barrier is actually quite helpful. As a healer, that absorb should just be considered a boost to my HPS and it helps with survivability as well.
I'd also note that for some dungeons and affixes I need to set up more for tank healing and for others I need to set up more for group healing so that might make me equip 370 with the right traits over 385 with the wrong ones. I assume DPS have some analogous choices with ST vs AOE.
Anyway with 36 specs in the game I'm just assuming someone has it worse than me.
For my alt, you can see sims for the traits here: https://lockonestopshop.com/#!/Affliction/Sims/Azerite
If you get Overwhelming Power in 2nd ring and one of the best outer ring traits, then I'm pretty sure the Intellect on a 385 is not making up for bad traits. Archive of the Titans is fairly low and Laser Matrix can't be used like I said, so I could see it happening.
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On October 06 2018 07:24 Atreides wrote: i actually detest raiding so much. Im suffering through mythich mother pug just cuz im that desperate for azerite gear cuz no m+ chest luck. heh
its not even hard, i dont have to play good or do shit, the only people earning it are the leaders who are trying to herd 20 baboons. I just have to suffer for 1.5 hrs for chance at good loot...
edit: for clarity its the stupid stack 8 dh +other defensives run through wall all at same time cheese strat which is extraordinarily easy if people just do it. Most of the time is spent waiting for perfect group composition and kicking total idiots who just die instantly on first wall transition. Mad props to the people willing to put these pugs together I guess. It really seems terrible. w/e I kill it but i have still not seen the shoulders off mother on any difficulty yet. heh
PUG raiding is very hit and miss, probably leaning heavily on the miss side.
Raiding becomes quite fun when you have a guild or some other group that you run with regularly. Progression can be painful but once your group has the basics down things suddenly feel smooth as butter. Even new content feels ok because you have a group that has played together and can adapt more easily to new mechanics.
TL;DR: You can’t really judge Raiding based on PUG experiences. Raid content is definitely designed to be taken on by a reasonably coordinated group.
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Mother is very much a coordination boss without requiring any individual skill.
Apart from that Mythic raids are not really meant to be pugable. And Uldir seems quite hard to me after the first 2.
On October 07 2018 01:27 Tictock wrote: Raiding becomes quite fun when you have a guild or some other group that you run with regularly. Progression can be painful but once your group has the basics down things suddenly feel smooth as butter. Even new content feels ok because you have a group that has played together and can adapt more easily to new mechanics.
I am weird I only like progress raiding aka chain wiping. Perfecting things on every try etc. Once things become "smooth as butter" I just want to alt F4 since I am so bored. I am just dragging myself through farm raids.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Progression is fun but at the same time spending a whole raid night trying to teach people mechanics that they should've learned before pulling the boss isn't. If you're in a higher end guild that won't happen as often but they have much greater demands on the amount and the way that you play.
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This week's first raid we tried to rekill Zekvoz but wiped over and over all evening because our main tank was gone and my guild leader (the guy who is already a questionable healer and keeps me on the bench if he heals) tried to tank. So we wiped all evening mainly because of 1 guy trying to figure out tanking, but I still didnt mind. I just focus on my play and improve it, it is not like I ever played perfectly.
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Is there anything to tanking in raid other than switching aggro, especially on zek? I know for zul and I guess myth there's some stuff but mostly it seems to be taunting every X seconds.
I think my guild's at a brick wall now that we're on M zek. Can't progress if people can't do simple mechanics such as placing deceits tucked away or grouping to cleave little adds off of big add.
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Well I never tanked in my life but besides the taunting (which was also failed multiple times) I guess there is using CDs and your defensive rotation correctly, positioning the boss correctly and dealing with the general dodging patterns of the fights which will probably be different while tanking. Also we had him run out of healing range during the ring dodging repeatedly, though maybe that was also healer fault idk.
In any case we ended up using defensive CDs only on the stand-in tank and none on the regular one. Yet we still had the stand-in die constantly to the point that he was at the top of the death stats while the regular tank was on the opposite end. So yeah there is obviously a difference between experienced and inexperienced tanks, though as I said before my opinion of said player is not the highest anyway. Although weirdly he understands boss mechanics well enough to make a decent raid leader. Maybe raid leading costs him focus idk.
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On October 07 2018 02:14 Redox wrote: This week's first raid we tried to rekill Zekvoz but wiped over and over all evening because our main tank was gone and my guild leader (the guy who is already a questionable healer and keeps me on the bench if he heals) tried to tank. So we wiped all evening mainly because of 1 guy trying to figure out tanking, but I still didnt mind. I just focus on my play and improve it, it is not like I ever played perfectly.
I was about to respond to your earlier post but then saw this... Yea healing a farm raid can be hella boring since people have learned to avoid most mechanics and gear tends to make most healing stuff not as stressful. When DPS you can always play the self-improvement game regardless of the difficulty. So I feel ya there. It has been several expansions since I mained heals (may switch at some point this expac) and the only way I delt with that boredom is by pumping out w/e dps my spec would allow while trying to top heal meters.
You are still weird for liking progression wipes :p
Like Cyro said, it’s not so bad when the wipes are due to learning or changing strategy. However when you are on wipe 20 kus one dude can’t be bothered to move fast enough or doesn’t understand the mechanics he has seen a bunch of times, that is when I want to punch my monitor.
Always amazes me how some people have played this game for years but just can’t be bothered to learn the basics.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
I've found tanking and healing properly in a raid environment to be extremely difficult in general because theres a lot of stuff that they seem to do which you would never be aware of unless you were watching their screen and because communication between people of the same role and across roles almost universally seems to be poor. People don't call out when they use tank or healer CD's for example; mitigation, externals etc - it just happens, and you're expected to deal with it without prior warning or plan.
Jumping into the role and trying to fit in with other people performing the same role without having a clue who's doing what and when is far harder IMO than either playing DPS or tanking/healing a 5-man where it's your sole job to take care of your role. You can always get an okay job done by YOLOing it, but i've never felt in a position to play very well because of this communication issue
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On October 06 2018 21:45 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2018 05:09 Tappo wrote:On October 06 2018 03:43 NonY wrote: Hopefully they at least get the 370 azerite gear from emissaries in very soon.
Although it kind of already doesn't matter for top tier players who likely already have 385 in 2-3 slots. Or at least it's just annoying to them that they have to do WQ's again and possibly use a 370 with better traits that they got from saving baby turtles over the 385 they got from mythic g'huun.
If your ilvl is 380+ I don't see why you wouldn't get 385 gear from the emissaries. If you've already earned enough gear from other areas of the game to be 380 then it's not like that gear isn't earned just because it's from a WQ. I wonder why they cap it like that. I think if you're clearing mythic uldir enough to be 380 or you are grinding so much mythic+ that you are 380 then you've earned competitive azerite gear handouts from WQ's just like players who have achieved less than you. What 370 traits are better than 385 mythic raid traits+ more stats? I'm not 100% sure but for me personally, I can't use Laser Matrix because I primarily play mythic+ and it pulls far away mobs that you're not in combat with. So for the Laser Matrix Uldir pieces that leaves only one other choice for the outer ring. And for Monks, the 2nd ring is always 1 dps trait, 1 healing trait and 1 tanking trait. So if the one healing trait isn't very helpful then there's no other option. The dps and tank traits aren't always totally useless for healers but they're not great. I don't have enough 370/385 pieces that I've had to figure it out yet but I definitely see it as a possibility. Some outer ring traits do 2.5% of my healing in a useful way and some 2nd ring traits do 1.5% in a useful way while some other traits aren't quite so helpful or managing so much HPS. Even the 3rd ring can come into play because some of them are completely useless while resounding barrier is actually quite helpful. As a healer, that absorb should just be considered a boost to my HPS and it helps with survivability as well. I'd also note that for some dungeons and affixes I need to set up more for tank healing and for others I need to set up more for group healing so that might make me equip 370 with the right traits over 385 with the wrong ones. I assume DPS have some analogous choices with ST vs AOE. Anyway with 36 specs in the game I'm just assuming someone has it worse than me. For my alt, you can see sims for the traits here: https://lockonestopshop.com/#!/Affliction/Sims/AzeriteIf you get Overwhelming Power in 2nd ring and one of the best outer ring traits, then I'm pretty sure the Intellect on a 385 is not making up for bad traits. Archive of the Titans is fairly low and Laser Matrix can't be used like I said, so I could see it happening. It doesnt pull them. It just looks like it hits them. I would pull all surroundings or break cc if that would be the case. Especially as a melee Laser matrix is common in high level keys among all roles. Pulls good value for heal
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Some people are better at understanding what to do, but have no clue how to do it. Also, raid leading does take a bit of added focus since you tend to be calling things out and paying attn to the whole group, not just what you are doing.
Still sounds like your raid lead is kinda shitty, as part of leading is knowing how to maximize your groups streangths even if that means putting yourself on the back row.
I haven’t tanked in BFA, but Re already said the basic skills tanks should have. From what I hear BFA doesn’t have anything that asks Tanks to do anything beyond the basics atm. As long as you understand your class, the boss mechanics, and can communicate with your Co-Tank... I think anyone should be able to tank if they can do those things.
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On October 07 2018 05:16 Cyro wrote: I've found tanking and healing properly in a raid environment to be extremely difficult in general because theres a lot of stuff that they seem to do which you would never be aware of unless you were watching their screen and because communication between people of the same role and across roles almost universally seems to be poor. People don't call out when they use tank or healer CD's for example; mitigation, externals etc - it just happens, and you're expected to deal with it without prior warning or plan.
Jumping into the role and trying to fit in with other people performing the same role without having a clue who's doing what and when is far harder IMO than either playing DPS or tanking/healing a 5-man where it's your sole job to take care of your role. You can always get an okay job done by YOLOing it, but i've never felt in a position to play very well because of this communication issue Idk I healed some pug 5-mans in like the 6-8 area and I felt it was the hardest thing I have ever done in WoW. Way more difficult than healing a mythic raid. Then sometimes you have a good group (very rarely at my meh score) and there is nothing to do. Feels super random.
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