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United Kingdom20338 Posts
askmrrobot is not at all usable even for ST DPS which are easier than healers to sim (error in the high double digits % due to stupid things like casting an ability 16 times per fight when it's #1 priority and could have been fit 20 times)
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From j.b:
"I agree with Blizzard’s concern, and I think it was echoed by most of the player base on beta. There was always going to be some lucky guy out there that was going to open their first cache of the expansion and pop out a best-in-slot 385 Azerite piece along with a 390 weapon and a 395 trinket, and they were going to post a screenshot of it on Reddit, and Reddit was going to upvote it 75,000 times, and every guild Discord was going to link the screenshot six times, and then everyone was going to feel bad about their M+ cache no matter what came out of it. That system clearly was going to produce a lot of anger and bitterness rather than joy and optimism.
So I liked Blizzard’s decision to move away from the variability of the weekly caches. But I don’t think anyone, especially the only-M+ crowd, is particularly happy with the current system either. It’s just too hard to get high level Azerite pieces right now. And while Blizzard made it somewhat easier to get Azerite gear by allowing it to be tradeable, that hasn’t helped the M+ community at all. As someone who focuses primarily or exclusively on M+, your only source of 385 Azerite is from your weekly chest, and you can’t trade that with anyone, and no one else can trade you theirs. This is dramatically different than raiding where all Azerite pieces will become tradeable once everyone in the raid has a 385 piece (which won’t take more than a month or so of clears). If M+ is your only avenue for earning Azerite, statistically you are almost certainly going to get boned this expansion. We’ve had a month of weekly M+ caches, and there is still a significant portion of players that have received no Azerite (or weapons for that matter), let alone Azerite with worthwhile traits. Azerite is too important for this degree of scarcity.
At the bare minimum, M+ needs a way to trade Azerite gear from the caches or something that has a similar outcome. Not having that layer of RNG protection is devastating, and in an era where it appears that Blizzard is trying to bring parity to raiding and M+ loot it’s an obvious and significant advantage for raiders.
Finally, and on a kind of unrelated note, I’d like to address Ion’s point that M+ should have loot disadvantages because “the activity requires four other people as opposed to coordinating and scheduling a full raid group.” I couldn’t disagree more vehemently with that line of logic, and it feels like the player base is being punished for the sins of the developers. The idea that players should be extra rewarded for putting up with the headache of finding 20 players that can all commit to playing at the same time is questionable at best. If Blizzard recognizes that the raid format is burdensome and onerous, maybe try fixing the raid format instead of incentivizing players to put up with it by throwing more loot at them. Part of the reason M+ has ascended so rapidly is because *gasp* it’s accessible. You don’t need five officers, a webpage, a Discord server and a recruitment post that you bump daily to do a +16 key. Blizzard has struck gold with M+, and rather than lean into it, Blizzard has decided that it needs to prop up raiding with favorable loot systems. Raiding is an anachronism from an era where massively multiplayer was actually the selling point. Now every game has persistent massive online worlds, and raiding has ceased to be spectacle and instead turned into homework. Let it die. M+ is the future."
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No idea who this j.b. is but I could not disagree more with that line of logic.:D
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Yea, as much as i agree with him, his assessment is wrong. The m+ community is tiny and irrelevant compared to the raiding community. Raiding is what makes WoW what it is, no matter how good m+ is. And i say that as someone who played whole Legion without raiding in a guild and only doing m+ :|
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I gotta disagree too, 5 mans should not have the same loot as bigass raids.
The entire paragraph reads like "it's a pain in the ass to make those raids and i don't wanna, but still gimme the same loot". I neither raid nor do mythic dungeons yet (rep farming...........), but i absolutely wouldn't expect the same loot from mythic dungeons than i'd expect from a raid. Which is still the endgame content, he's acting like raiders are a dying breed.
Without raids, WoW will crumble in less than two years.
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United Kingdom20338 Posts
No idea who this j.b. is
He's a Method player, one of the more popular WoW streamers and writes articles for the WoW fansites sometimes.
I don't agree on the let them die part but i think there should be more emphasis on smaller group content than 20 man. 10 man was removed, all raids even on Heroic are designed around 20 man (although you can techically run 10-30 man, almost everybody runs 15-25 man because of tuning and design problems favoring ~20 man comps and guild runs of heroic often bloat to 30). The game is very much raid organized 20 man in a large guild or go home.
20 man also causes problems because of the role ratios - 2 mainspec tanks is fine for serving a roster of 15-20 DPS in a raid environment but doesn't work in any other content. There's an enormous shortage of tanks for non-raid content.
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385 chestpiece in my weekly chest, that was the only slot i still had a 340 in, HUGE upgrade :D
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^Hes not a method player. Hes part of the Method brand (streaming contract), but he's not a raider in the guild.
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United Kingdom20338 Posts
tops twitch with "jdotb <Method>" as his stream name doing some of the hardest content in the game
does MDI for Method
that means Method player although i'l give you the not part of M raid progression team part 
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On October 03 2018 21:33 Laurens wrote:
385 chestpiece in my weekly chest, that was the only slot i still had a 340 in, HUGE upgrade :D
wow, congrats! I can't for the life of me replace my shoulders or chest.
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I ended up quitting wow about a week ago
The game is just not in a state where i'm having fun, maybe later patches are gonna fix it but i'll probably hold out for 8.2 or something at this rate.
Hoping for more classic news at blizzcon, i'm not gonna buy a ticket for a demo but i am pretty excited if we can get a date on a release.
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United Kingdom20338 Posts
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I always felt that the reward from weekly m+ chest is just too good for what you have to do for it. Which is also why the chest rng is such a big deal. Removing some rng would make the chest even better so I would not like that solution.
If they decreased reward item lvl a bit while removing some rng to keep the power similar or lower it a bit that would be fine imo.
But then again people would never accept an item lvl decrease, they always want more no matter if it is good for the game or not.
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I think a lot of the criticism of azerite pieces comes from the lack of agency in targeting the ones with traits you like, or targeting azerite piece upgrades over other types of loot upgrades. I'm pretty casual so it doesn't affect me so much. A couple pieces 340 when rest are 370, or 355 when rest are 370-380 doesn't affect the kind of content I can dps for, even though maybe average ilevel will hurt my ability to join pugs.
I'm hoping 8.1 (?) will fix some of the annoying things.
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United Kingdom20338 Posts
On October 04 2018 00:15 Redox wrote:
I always felt that the reward from weekly m+ chest is just too good for what you have to do for it. Which is also why the chest rng is such a big deal. Removing some rng would make the chest even better so I would not like that solution.
If they decreased reward item lvl a bit while removing some rng to keep the power similar or lower it a bit that would be fine imo.
But then again people would never accept an item lvl decrease, they always want more no matter if it is good for the game or not.
Raid farm gives a huge amount of loot per hour, the problem with that is that you can't do it every day. Same with Weekly cache.
I'd like to see higher m+ loot tied behind higher difficulty; 10 is easy, and not fairly compared to Mythic Ghuun. If it was a 15 cleared weekly to get to pick a single 380 from a choice of 3 in the chest then i doubt people would see it the way that you do.
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I am kinda in the same mindset of jb, but not to the extent of punishing raid loot and such. Raiding has its place and shouldn't be sacrificed in lieu of M+. Both can exist and reward people for the harder content appropriately.
I dont have a mythic guild and no idea if I ever will, so my chances of high azerite gear will only come from pubbing heroic (24 uldir kills that can drop azerite (normal and heroic), 1 normal piece dropped) or my cache. So it would be nice to have a better chance to eventually get an azerite piece that has good stats for me.
I saw on twitter a good idea in that you get to discover (or like your post above stated) 3 pieces. 1 azerite, 1 non azerite, and 1 reroll token. Then you can only choose 1 from your chest, so if you get a bunch of duplicate things you still get a reroll to try on a kill elsewhere.
I think M+ is a pretty big thing for Blizzard. They put a lot of time into the system now and how it works.
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If they just completely scrapped the Azerite gear idea and made azerite traits a skill tree like Legion, everything would be fine.
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8751 Posts
imo they need to already have mythic+ rewards go up to +15. doing a +10 is trivial already for 365+ players who have learned the dungeons fairly well. like just completing a 9 in time and then completing a 10 without caring about the timer is really fairly easy. many more people could do it if they had 4 friends to form a full group. it's not the actual in-game difficulty that is the problem
there is a very small percentage of the population who can fairly easily complete a +15 just like there's a percentage who can already fairly easily full clear mythic uldir. for everyone else, having something to strive for that actually gives in-game rewards would be fun. but instead it's just for raider.io score
blizzard is way too concerned about people gearing up one way in order to make a different kind of content easier. like using mythic+ to gear up for raids. who cares? it really really doesn't matter. what matters is that people who only play one kind of content have a system that makes sense. you can't tell mythic+ players that their system purposely doesn't make sense because mythic raiding exists in the game. it's certainly possible to make a system that makes sense for mythic+ players with mythic raiding still being in the game. it's not an excuse
i think for the first few weeks of a new expansion it's fine that they have temporary restrictions so that top 100 raiders don't necessarily feel obligated to grind pvp or mythic+ in order to prepare for when mythic raid releases. but after that, it doesn't matter. but honestly they failed at that because raiders did grind pvp and mythic+ to prepare for raid. and now that that's irrelevant, they should have a system in place for pure mythic+ players that makes sense for pure mythic+ players
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United Kingdom20338 Posts
Or even Mythic+ and pug raid players
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On October 04 2018 02:12 NonY wrote:
imo they need to already have mythic+ rewards go up to +15. doing a +10 is trivial already for 365+ players who have learned the dungeons fairly well. like just completing a 9 in time and then completing a 10 without caring about the timer is really fairly easy\
Is there some sort of percentile chart somewhere showing ilvl percentiles? 365+ is a rare sighting for me.
Personally, I see raiding as a way to boost my Mythic+ gear. I kind of like raiding, but the dynamic is very different. I certainly prefer 5 man content because its less of a clusterfuck. One thing I did appreciate about running heroic uldir is that a lot of fights have more depth than the mythic+ fights. I would love to get some 5 man content with a lot of depth. I would say I have a pretty good understanding of about half the dungeons at this point and I'm ilvl 358. I have a friend who lets me tag along on his guild's heroic uldir each saturday, so I tag along for that. But my main objective is mythic+ raiding. Stuff with a time limit is always super fun.
I could see myself enjoying raiding at some point, but a 10 man group would be way cooler. 20 feels like a bit much. I can justify putting together a mythic+ group, but getting 20 people together who won't disconnect or anything is kind of a chore. That's why I just run with my friend's guild to clear 8/9 heroic uldir and call it good.
I expect that once I hit ~362, I will be looking for a new challenge, at which point I might try to join a raiding guild. I think it would be cool to try to progress through mythic uldir. But my main concern is being able to run the next raid when it comes out. I think that would be really fun. What kinda ilvl do people think I should be aiming for in hopes of being able to run heroic (new raid)?
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On October 03 2018 08:27 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2018 06:40 Cyro wrote:
Rogue? Hoped to see the end of 7 rogue comps but here they are :D Yeah, still playing windwalker main, rogue alt. I'm 99% sure they intended Zul to be a difficult 7min boss with a harsh burn phase and all, and instead you have 5 or 6 rogues doing 30k+ DPS ending the fight in 3min because they didnb't put together the fact that endless useless adds is infinite dps for Subtlety. I went a bit more hardcore in my guild choices after Argus, we just got Mythrax 83th world, but sadly, I'm living the benched life for Mythrax and Ghuun, because while Zul is a stupid rogue spam boss, the last two are Havoc+Warrior for buffs, every other melee is out.
shuda played Mistweaver, lul.
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EPT
