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On September 24 2016 17:45 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 18:39 bo1b wrote:
Bring it up, warlocks and rets are fucking awful. I dont like bring it up usually but, the other 5 of us are 200k+ me and the hunter usually hit around 240-250 others are like frost dk doing 210 mage boomkin and shaman doing good too(so i guess 6) but rets and locks + 1 shadow priest are pulling sub 130. cant down xavius cause they dont do enough dps to kill the big add, nearly didnt get cenarius cause their damage couldnt break the root
Weird. We have a lock in our group that is consistently 200k+ on some fights (ursoc/nythendra/xavius). And in our second raid group we have a lock that keeps up with me on Cenarius around 190kish (I play outlaw for that fight). I
As rogue I can pull 230k in either assa or outlaw (should be higher soon, almost 2nd golden trait in assa!).
And looking at the buffs I see that they are finally buffing Deadly poison. Which is kinda bleh since now my 90 talents are even more skewed to exsanguate instead of trying agonizing poison out.
Small nerf to outlaw, but nothing major there so can't complain.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Those numbers are not all that high but i'm not sure of comparisons for that boss HC. Usually go by Ursoc because it's more patchwerky
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Patchwerky logs are kinda overrated from a dps. Arms for example is pretty good at those, but average on bosses like the legion's.cthun. I don't mind that disparity if it is somewhat balanced at.the end.
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I find both Nythendra and Ursoc to be giant target dummies.
And they may not be the 'best' numbers out there but for equal ilevel between us the class is keeping up. We have plenty of other warlocks and rogues in the guild that can't do those numbers though so it could come down to being more comfortable with the class.
I lose to our DH on Dragon trio, but I beat him on Ursoc/Nythendra pretty handily.
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8751 Posts
It's funny that people who are farming mythic+ are getting more geared than people who prepared funnel alts for the raid. Even with the 850 base cap, groups farm +2 for three chests and hope for titanforged, meanwhile farming AP and getting chances at legendaries. A group of four good players who can carry the fifth random player with a keystone is gearing up way more efficiently than someone who leveled alts just to run EN H multiple times this week. Of course, if your guild wants its players to have alts available to switch comps for the next tier, then getting AK research going asap on alts was a priority anyway. But for the first tier of the expansion, when you can have only one maximally geared character ready for day one of mythic, playing just one character would have been best, making time to play more this week rather than at launch. Although if everyone did that, then there wouldn't have been enough keystones to go around and running EN H four times would go back to being better.
On September 24 2016 23:31 Cyro wrote:
Those numbers are not all that high but i'm not sure of comparisons for that boss HC. Usually go by Ursoc because it's more patchwerky
Blizz doesn't privilege sustained ST that much. Maybe Blizz went overboard with the DH nerfs, making them significantly below average when taking into consideration all DPS circumstances, but you do need to take into consideration all DPS circumstances (a variety of durations, target numbers, travel times, target positions, etc) to get on the same level as Blizz. Oh and also other shit like how much utility, survivability, and whether your class has off-specs. And consider that while you might be upset about being below-average in certain categories, if you aren't far enough below what Blizzard is intending for someone of your ilvl to do, then you're properly balanced atm according to them. It could be that several other classes are too strong in that category, so they should be expecting nerfs, and the other classes that are above you are within the acceptable range, and you just happen to be at the bottom of the acceptable range. So sometimes a class is pretty damn low in the rankings but does not have any buffs on the horizon and this isn't a mistake.
The class balance guys know what the raid design guys intended for DPS. It's more important to them to be consistent with that than focus purely on rankings. I think they also know that making adjustments based on logs, even when you filter for 90th percentile or whatever, is like balancing SC2 based around GM ladder games, leaving both the pros and the newbs out of it. What skill and knowledge level do you balance for? Obviously you want them to balance for you, but the top players who are going to actually compete for world firsts are experiencing something different, and the people below you are experiencing something different.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
It could be that several other classes are too strong in that category, so they should be expecting nerfs
I'm mostly confused by the ST damage being identical on two specs and having one recieve notable buffs while the other got large nerfs in the same category in the same patch. Is the design intent to punish the spec that is good at AOE for winning in other situations and to buff the guy who can't AOE as well so that he shines on those bosses?
Some classes being more dedicated to AOE and others to ST is kinda okay, but i'd like the balance to be fairly close. DH, mage, hunter, monk AOE was out of line (dh/monk especially) compared to some other classes and i was waiting for nerfs but i don't think some classes should do 20-35% more ST than others either. ST DPS is easier to deal and easier to calculate.
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On September 25 2016 00:51 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +It could be that several other classes are too strong in that category, so they should be expecting nerfs I'm mostly confused by the ST damage being identical on two specs and having one recieve notable buffs while the other got large nerfs in the same category in the same patch. Is the design intent to punish the spec that is good at AOE for winning in other situations and to buff the guy who can't AOE as well so that he shines on those bosses? Some classes being more dedicated to AOE and others to ST is kinda okay, but i'd like the balance to be fairly close. DH, mage, hunter, monk AOE was out of line (dh/monk especially) compared to some other classes and i was waiting for nerfs but i don't think some classes should do 20-35% more ST than others either. ST DPS is easier to deal and easier to calculate.
If that was the case Shadow Priests would not have been gutted.
Single target execute phase damage is all we have and thats getting nerfed.
Damage outside of Surrender to Madness is still mediocre. AoE is still non existant.
Oh and ofc lets not touch fire mages...
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Yeah DH nerfs were always going to be tough because a lot of what made them strong at AOE was also just part of the normal single target rotation lol. Hopefully with a bit of talent rearranging the hit won't be as substantial (taking away focus on throw glaive) but I'm not sure.
I've only been taking with my DH but I dps for shits n giggles now and then on world content and my GF has been dedicated Havoc since the game dropped. The aoe was hilariously fun but it'll probably still be alright anyway.
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I can see spriest getting a nerf. That was a our top dps in mythic 7.
On the subject: any tanks having trouble holding aggro at this level? I swear I feel like we generate less threat the higher the mythic.
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On September 25 2016 01:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
I can see spriest getting a nerf. That was a our top dps in mythic 7.
On the subject: any tanks having trouble holding aggro at this level? I swear I feel like we generate less threat the higher the mythic.
I assume your EU?
level 7 you get a 2nd modifier. on the EU this week its Skittish which causes tanks to generate less threat.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
because a lot of what made them strong at AOE was also just part of the normal single target rotation lol.
That's why i expected a compensatory buff to one of the few ST abilities
I'm actually happy for glaive toss nerf, its strength caused it to lock up two talent rows that had otherwise appealing choices. This became a bit of a joke:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aaA1h7m.jpg)
Bloodlet + master of the glaive will generally combo together, but likely won't be used most of the time any more - not in ST, and far from mandatory if even useful for dungeons (they shine with 3 targets, being bad with 1 or 10)
Fel mastery may also give way to the other two talents for very low target counts rather than being best all of the time as well
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Netherlands45349 Posts
DH' nerfs seem a tad excessive for Single target(if you compare it with other classes), i'm fine with the aoe dmg nerfs though because that was just out of control.
Intersting to see that MM actually got aoe nerfed and ST arguably buffed.
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On September 25 2016 01:34 Emnjay808 wrote:
I can see spriest getting a nerf. That was a our top dps in mythic 7.
On the subject: any tanks having trouble holding aggro at this level? I swear I feel like we generate less threat the higher the mythic.
I run with spriest/fire mage/dh in M+.
Spriest is consistantly 100k below the others on bosses, worse on trash. Their trash aoe is crap.
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had a hardcore firemage in my grp, did 400k dps average over the whole dungeon.
my guildmates were at 250k TT
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I really want to level my Pally now but this expac is so garbage for alts and even offspecs (not to mention your alt's offspec).
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So I don't quite understand why not playing your main is so bad?
Because you don't run out of stuff to do?
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On September 25 2016 06:51 Duvon wrote:
So I don't quite understand why not playing your main is so bad?
Because you don't run out of stuff to do?
for the true hardcore raiders? Every 30-40min spend on your alt is another mythic+ you didn't run.
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Well yeah for the true hardcore. I don't think most of us here apply to that anymore.
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Even as a more casual player I would still say alts are tough in Legion. Leveling seems to take longer than many of the last expansions and there's a lot of "unlocking" (Suramar, Order Hall campaign) to do even once you finally hit 110. Once you get a toon to the "comfy" spot of world quests and dungeon progress, with most Suramar stuff done, then it's pretty neat and flexible. But that can take a while if you're only playing a couple hours a day tops.
This works both ways because it gives casual players that DON'T care about alts and just love their main a TON of content to do, which is ultimately much better for everyone imo. But it can be a little discouraging for folks that like splitting their time between toons. I've had to focus time into only two characters myself. I thought I'd do my mage first then level a tank (DH) and healer (probably shaman) to have the options open, and I still have barely scratched 101 on my shaman and just don't feel motivated to do so yet. Though I'm enjoying the other two enough that it tends to outweigh the "man I'd love to play [this class] but it's just too much work now". I haven't finished the class hall campaign on my DH either.
I think people became accustomed to playing multiple characters due to a lack of content in the past 2-3 expansions, so they had to find something interesting to do. Now that there's enough content for someone to play "their main" 24/7 and enjoy it, sort of like vanilla days, the folks that have all these 100s just sitting around feel weird not planning on touching them for many months lol. That's my perspective at least. It's more of a psychological hurdle, rather than something wrong with the game.
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110 takes literally 1 morning and afternoon.
Then another few hours for suramar friendly, thats it.
It might be annoying to quest, but it is pretty quick, i personally use ConsLegion addon which just tells you where to go with very nice waypoints
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EPT
