On November 06 2015 07:30 DinoMight wrote: I think's pretty ignorant to say that top Koreans are unafraid of facing tough opponents when they themselves frequently admit that the opposite is true.
Take sOs for example. Everyone hates playing him because they're afraid he'll hit them with something that they're not prepared for. Or Liquid HerO, the guy whose fatal flaw is that he's shit under pressure.
I'm tired of people with posts like these that somehow make Koreans into fucking zen masters. They just practice harder and with better practice partners than everyone else. That's all.
your post is wrought with emotion over information. Who is everyone. lol. you say take sos for example then u immediately defer to the word everyone. then you finish your argument with im tired of people blah blah blah. less emotion more facts, thanks.
OP, what you are talking about is covered extensively in The Art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin. I recommend it highly to any Starcraft player, but you don't have to take my word on it. Day9 and Jakatak have been recommending it for years. If you are short on cash, you can get the audiobook on audible through a free trial.
The state you're referring to happens when one has practiced something so thoroughly and with such quality that all of the mechanics are embedded into one's subconscious and muscle memory. The subconscious does much of the work to 'play the game', leaving the conscious mind to take a more observational role. I have only caught brief, brief glimpses of this in Starcraft.
On November 06 2015 07:30 DinoMight wrote: I think's pretty ignorant to say that top Koreans are unafraid of facing tough opponents when they themselves frequently admit that the opposite is true.
Take sOs for example. Everyone hates playing him because they're afraid he'll hit them with something that they're not prepared for. Or Liquid HerO, the guy whose fatal flaw is that he's shit under pressure.
I'm tired of people with posts like these that somehow make Koreans into fucking zen masters. They just practice harder and with better practice partners than everyone else. That's all.
your post is wrought with emotion over information. Who is everyone. lol. you say take sos for example then u immediately defer to the word everyone. then you finish your argument with im tired of people blah blah blah. less emotion more facts, thanks.
???
What the hell are you talking about? I just gave you two examples.
OP's post is not exactly full of facts and statistics either, I don't know why my response should be held to a higher standard.
In general if you read around and listen to interviews, you'll often hear Koreans talk about who they're afraid of, or what matchup they are not confident in. They're no different than foreigners.
On November 06 2015 07:30 DinoMight wrote: I think's pretty ignorant to say that top Koreans are unafraid of facing tough opponents when they themselves frequently admit that the opposite is true.
Take sOs for example. Everyone hates playing him because they're afraid he'll hit them with something that they're not prepared for. Or Liquid HerO, the guy whose fatal flaw is that he's shit under pressure.
I'm tired of people with posts like these that somehow make Koreans into fucking zen masters. They just practice harder and with better practice partners than everyone else. That's all.
your post is wrought with emotion over information. Who is everyone. lol. you say take sos for example then u immediately defer to the word everyone. then you finish your argument with im tired of people blah blah blah. less emotion more facts, thanks.
Probably he made a mistake of not taking drugs before making the post. I make the same mistake now, but I am doing my best to supress my emotions right now, like true zen master does. Word "everyone" refers to you in particular and to all people stating that koreans are able to reliably control their mindstate, in general.
On topic, I think it's clear you are wrong, and probably because you don't watch enough korean sc2 if you say they never crumble under pressure (i mean why would they if they are zen masters), there are plenty examples of how top players do that: for me easiest to recall are Byul and Rogue, but I am pretty sure others may point you to more. Thanks
On November 06 2015 04:47 LunarPenguin wrote: Hi Gyrus,
I think what you are talking about is mindfulness. When the top players play, they are literally unaware of anything else, but the game. When you reach a certain level of focus, the experience of 'self' falls away, and in this state of mind, there is no fear, worry, insecurities etc. Focusing on anything (not just starcraft) can get you into a state of mindfulness. This is the basis of meditation. I reckon the top players reach this level of focus more times than less skilled players.
Everyone experiences mindfulness sometimes. It happens when you focus so hard on something that everything else, even the 'self' falls away, and you are completely on autodrive. Mindfulness is the same as completely being in the present moment.
"...one where the player constantly sheds a euphoria of beauty for how the game plays itself." This is a good description of that very feeling.
If you are interested I would suggest you look up 'Sam Harris on Mindfulness', a neuroscientist who has explored this idea in great depth. This video is very enlightening, the point you are making is discussed between 6:30 and 8:00 minutes of this video
I recommend you watch the whole video at some point though
EngrishTeacher, it seems you have experienced this too.
and btw, drugs would help. This IS the base feeling that is experienced when taking any psychedelics, or even MDMA.
This is absolutely true. Having been a part of badminton tournament (solo) for a while and it is the best state of mind. In fact sometimes when you are winning so hard that you lose this state and starts losing points like pouring water, we see this from pro all the time as well It is also why players often demand a change of shuttlecock etc whenever their momentum is not keeping up
Some people calls this: "To be in the Zone" editied: karukono basket didn't introduce that one. It's a known phenomenon. As i recall scarlett mentioned that state in the interview. Ye, and the term "flow" really covers it all as someone mentioned before... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
p.s. i really should read through the thread before posting...
I call BS. it basically all comes down to muscle memory and practice.
the more you play the more you build muscle memory and the more comfortable you feel when playing. you also don't have to think too much about macro it just runs in the background. very similar to playing a musical instrument.
On November 06 2015 09:11 Yorbon wrote: If you want to get from state 1 to state 2, you just have to shout bankai. If that still doesn't work, maybe drugs help.
On November 06 2015 15:48 seom wrote: I call BS. it basically all comes down to muscle memory and practice.
the more you play the more you build muscle memory and the more comfortable you feel when playing. you also don't have to think too much about macro it just runs in the background. very similar to playing a musical instrument.
Oh ok, and which part of that is bs again? Or are you just paraphrasing what I am saying but calling me BS?
On November 06 2015 16:00 NukeD wrote: This is such a wannabe philosophical/psychological thread.
I love the comment of OP how he laughs at people who haven't used drugs.
The whole things just looks as if it's tought process of a 15-19 year old.
Yeah, people are acting like being in the zone is somehow something that is above our normal understanding and is something near-divine, when it's actually reasonably mundane and probably everyone has had many moments of such intense focus.
On November 06 2015 16:00 NukeD wrote: This is such a wannabe philosophical/psychological thread.
I love the comment of OP how he laughs at people who haven't used drugs.
The whole things just looks as if it's tought process of a 15-19 year old.
Yeah, people are acting like being in the zone is somehow something that is above our normal understanding and is something near-divine, when it's actually reasonably mundane and probably everyone has had many moments of such intense focus.
Mastering the zone / Zen state is essential to all competitive endeavor at the professional level. If you both have similar practice histories and game knowledge, the strategies and muscle memories become almost meaningless. The game is decided in the mental plane.
The way I see it as, it's best to play this game without much thought. I think this is what you're talking about when mentioning euphoria and beauty. I believe the best way to play this game is to play it relaxed, and without thinking. You have all of your strategies, reactions, scouting, micro, macro, etc internalized and automated into muscle memory. If you encounter something you don't understand, just continue to play. Because when you are constantly thinking too hard, and constantly analyzing every bit of data that's coming to you, it's going to take a mental tax on you.
Your best games will be the games you thought the least in. Like I said before, if you don't understand something, don't think about it, just keep playing. Look at the replay later, internalize what you saw and how to deal with it, so next time you play against it you no longer have to think. I believe this mindset is really difficult to achieve, and it's really hard to have any sort of consistency, but is the kind of mindset that'll not only help you perform better, but also allow you to enjoy the game more. It kind of immerses you into the experience far greater than constant thought and data analysis during gameplay will.
Everyone has experienced this 'zone' to an extent. It does not happen only to a select few people. Most people will admit to having experienced this 'zone'. it happens when you are so focused on the activity. watch the video I had posted on page 1 of this thread.
EPT
