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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:57 Alucen-Will- wrote: Man they had JD at a B! I'm not really a woman but he seems like a pretty good looking guy. ya I'd put him up to B+ or A- myself, but he was also sporting a very strange haircut at the time I think .. what confuses me the most about that ranking is how Thezerg wasnt F- | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:47 ArvickHero wrote: Hwasin played in a korean tournament recently for christ sakes, and hardly anyone on this site said boo. People are starting to forgive and move on but savior has to flee his fucking country of birth? Give me a break, jesus. If the social stigma is really so great Savior feels he cant leave the house much or find another job, thats incredibly sad. Obviously nothing he did actually deserves that kind of reaction. He shouldnt have to flee his home country and leave his friends/family behind on top of all the rest.김봉준 is britney, whose team used the matchfixing scandal as an excuse to cut him loose. Matchfixing is the official reason, but many people suspect that it was because he's ugly, and the team was looking to cut him out for any reason really. Tangentially, being ugly is also pretty much why Effort retired his first time, because CJ was offering him such a shit contract despite his results (because he was ugly, thus not marketing very well). As for Savior .. dude needs to just realize that he needs to leave everything Starcraft related if he ever wants to find peace. Get the money he's saved up from all his donations and shit, and just get out of the country, start a new life. Dude complains about how people still harass him about the matchfixing scandal, when he keeps shamelessly playing, streaming and competing in the game that he destroyed for more money .. give me a break jesus. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 29 2015 03:59 Deathstar wrote: Yeah... the bottom line is the people who should matter most to us are not the gamblers, the business institutions that run the teams, but it is the players. savior is an amazing player. Stop being overly dramatic about him single handedly destroying bw when matchfixing and gambling is present in all areas of competition. You move on. You look at the present and what you want for the future. He's playing bw because that's his primary game that he has played in his life, and he's fucking good at it. Don't watch him if you don't like him but don't call it "shameless" that he streams for money when that's what everyone else is doing. It's not only that, but people ignore the fact there were many other reasons at that point in time for the "decline" of Broodwar and some of that blame can be put on SC2. Sure it didn't take off, but it certainly had an effect on sponsors who wanted the "best" product (in this case new) to start advertising as they were hoping it would bring in more viewers. We of course now know that it didn't, but as I said previously, if match fixing was the thing that killed BW, it would've killed all sports everywhere. Match fixing exists in everything, even chess. It's just something that naturally happens in places that allow gambling and sports to co-exist. You shouldn't blame the players for the death (lol) of BW. They had very little to do with any of it. Broodwar never even really died, it's just KeSPA moved forwarrd and went on with SC2 as the new game and then League of Legends. OGN is even casting Broodwar tournaments again, so if anything Broodwar never truely died. Saying Broodwar died reminds me very much of IGN and a bunch of other people claiming PC gaming was dead and continuing to spout it for the past decade or so. PC gaming never went anywhere and now it's bigger than ever. EDIT: That old TL progamer beauty ranking. How was Iris and NaDa so damn low o_O | ||
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Para199x
United Kingdom40 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:55 Peeano wrote: ???? What about this game? Imho Savior is just greedy and a liar. I'm sure he's sorry and it sucks for him to be hated that much, but I'll never forgive/believe him unless he can either provide proof or admit that he matchfixed. I honestly can't feel sorry for a liar. Maybe he does speak the truth, however I don't believe him and it seems to me Koreans do not believe him either. I think that's the biggest reason why he will remain hated and unforgiven. It is literally impossible to prove that you didn't throw a match. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
The match-fixers pretty much crippled a thriving e-Sports scene, and either endangered or ended the livelihoods of everyone else in the industry. They undermined the integrity of the game, causing great damage to the trust of the sponsors and viewers. It's not unreasonable to expect the match-fixers to stay the fuck away from the game after causing it so much harm, because they were too damn selfish and greedy. They didn't just harm themselves--they harmed everyone else, and Savior is the most shameless about it. Yet, Savior insists that it's still his right to earn money via streaming and playing in tournaments, because he's a greedy lazy fuck that doesn't want to do anything else. If he was REALLY repentant about his actions, and insisting that he just wants to play the game because he loves it, then he could EASILY turn off the donate balloon function for his stream. But he doesn't, because all he cares about is money. Maybe he doesn't have to move out of the country, but he could at least TRY to make a living off of something not related to Starcraft. Perhaps this is why Hwasin gets a free pass in some people's books--because he showed himself to be not completely pathetic and established his own business, making a livelihood off of something that isn't the game he helped destroy. For that reason alone he's better than Savior (but he still shouldn't stream or compete). | ||
hjkim1304
Korea (South)105 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On April 29 2015 04:21 Para199x wrote: It is literally impossible to prove that you didn't throw a match. AFAIK people bet on match lengths now, so even the people who won could be match fixing with a specific strategy (not finishing the game when they could by playing "safe", doing an all in not caring about win or lose, etc) . | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
Also, I don't think anyone reading this interview is going to change their opinion of me. Oh it did, sadly it did. This is terrible PR. In my head he was all buisness with the triads and original G and didn't give a hoot. Who is this whiny dude, that sold ESPORTS short for a measly 1.9k and tries to tell us that despite his constant display of genius does not know how to get into illegal betting. Srsly *s/madface* | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On April 29 2015 01:17 Crunchums wrote: i'm glad that he's at least like "yeah i did some stuff" instead of being like "i am 100% innocent!!" thanks for the translation Meh, that's very human behavior: if you've done a number of bad things only admit to the ones that have been proven and then still complain about being prosecuted. Cyclists that were caught with doping used to say: "oh, but I only tried it late in my career after I was coerced and it didn't help me at all" in order to save their legacy, but most of the time they doped their entire careers anyway. Now Savior says: "you can't prove I threw that game" and he acts like the victim because people don't believe him, as if he's some tragic figure. You shouldn't give cheaters the benefit of the doubt imo, I wouldn't trust him no matter how emotionally charged some people think the interview might be. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 29 2015 04:44 hjkim1304 wrote: SERIOUSLY? SAVIOR? you literally ATTACKED YOUR OWN MUTAS. Jesus I gotta say he has really thick skin. 마재윤 개새끼 if you're trying to lose on purpose and you don't want anybody to find out you don't throw by attacking your own mutas. you're implying he thought to himself "i need to lose this match but nobody can ever find out... hmm.. i guess i'll make my units attack each other" | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On April 29 2015 05:22 HaRuHi wrote: Oh it did, sadly it did. This is terrible PR. In my head he was all buisness with the triads and original G and didn't give a hoot. Who is this whiny dude, that sold ESPORTS short for a measly 1.9k and tries to tell us that despite his constant display of genius does not know how to get into illegal betting. Srsly *s/madface* to me it sounds like he's saying "i don't know how to to get into illegal betting sites because i never even tried it" not like "i don't know how to get into illegal betting sites even though i've been actively working towards that for a long time" | ||
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AleXoundOS
Georgia457 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 29 2015 04:23 ArvickHero wrote: For the record, I'm pretty mad that Hwasin is playing BW again and I think it is hypocritical that people are being so lenient about it. I don't think a life-time ban from the game is unreasonable, as the match-fixers of the infamous Black Sox scandal had received the same punishment. The match-fixers pretty much crippled a thriving e-Sports scene, and either endangered or ended the livelihoods of everyone else in the industry. They undermined the integrity of the game, causing great damage to the trust of the sponsors and viewers. It's not unreasonable to expect the match-fixers to stay the fuck away from the game after causing it so much harm, because they were too damn selfish and greedy. They didn't just harm themselves--they harmed everyone else, and Savior is the most shameless about it. Yet, Savior insists that it's still his right to earn money via streaming and playing in tournaments, because he's a greedy lazy fuck that doesn't want to do anything else. If he was REALLY repentant about his actions, and insisting that he just wants to play the game because he loves it, then he could EASILY turn off the donate balloon function for his stream. But he doesn't, because all he cares about is money. Maybe he doesn't have to move out of the country, but he could at least TRY to make a living off of something not related to Starcraft. Perhaps this is why Hwasin gets a free pass in some people's books--because he showed himself to be not completely pathetic and established his own business, making a livelihood off of something that isn't the game he helped destroy. For that reason alone he's better than Savior (but he still shouldn't stream or compete). Are you of the opinion that criminals cannot be rehabilitated? I know it's somewhat of a crazy comparison to make, but do you think that if a criminal, which is what Saviour and co were branded can never learn from their mistakes? You forget that most of the people involved in the match fixing were very young, many of them suffering career wise and they got coerced into making money the easy way, which is something they had very little of. Not everyone lived like Flash with a swanky contract and good salary, many of the players like UpMagic were very middle of the road and wanted to somehow improve their lives. They took the easy way out sure, but do you honestly think by now they haven't learnt from their mistakes? I'm happy Hwasin is playing again. I don't hold crimes against people much like I wouldn't hold this against people like him. The match fixing wasn't the only thing that "killed" Broodwar and neither should it be seen that way. If they want to play the game again competitively I think we should welcome them back. Holding grudges helps nobody. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
On April 29 2015 02:08 Stratos wrote: translated earlier by lemmata http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/437131-kespa-asks-blizzard-to-stop?page=23#459 This one is slightly closer to the original. Thanks to both translators though. I don't think anyone is necessarily being misled in this translation but there are certain nuances that the lemmata one captures better. *Edit: also going to note that the original Fomos article was from December 2013... yeah | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
#SaviorDidNothingWrong | ||
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nadafanboy42
Netherlands209 Posts
On April 29 2015 06:12 Qikz wrote: Are you of the opinion that criminals cannot be rehabilitated? I know it's somewhat of a crazy comparison to make, but do you think that if a criminal, which is what Saviour and co were branded can never learn from their mistakes? You forget that most of the people involved in the match fixing were very young, many of them suffering career wise and they got coerced into making money the easy way, which is something they had very little of. Not everyone lived like Flash with a swanky contract and good salary, many of the players like UpMagic were very middle of the road and wanted to somehow improve their lives. They took the easy way out sure, but do you honestly think by now they haven't learnt from their mistakes? I'm happy Hwasin is playing again. I don't hold crimes against people much like I wouldn't hold this against people like him. The match fixing wasn't the only thing that "killed" Broodwar and neither should it be seen that way. If they want to play the game again competitively I think we should welcome them back. Holding grudges helps nobody. Yes criminals can be rehabilitated, but rehabilitation doesn't necessarily mean being accepted back into their old lives. A pilot who gets caught trying to fly drunk doesn't get to work as a pilot again, and a match fixer doesn't get to play their sport again. It's harsh, but that's life. It's like cheating on a spouse and expecting them to just take you back a year later because 'you've changed', only a fool would buy that. If they were really learning from their mistakes, they'd be making a new life for themselves. And then maybe if like ten, twenty years later they wanted to play again I'd personally be willing to consider. But coming back barely a year, two years, later and acting like match fixing is something you can just forgive and forget, I don't agree with that. Match fixing alongside doping is the absolute worst thing a sportsman can do, it doesn't just affect their own record, it turns their entire sport into a farce. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
sounds like he was at the wrong place at the wrong time, acting based on ignorance. still, whats done is done and there are consequences for any action regardless of intention, and it can happen to anyone, even to a saint of a person anywhere in the world. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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oBlade
United States5637 Posts
On April 29 2015 06:49 nadafanboy42 wrote: Yes criminals can be rehabilitated, but rehabilitation doesn't necessarily mean being accepted back into their old lives. A pilot who gets caught trying to fly drunk doesn't get to work as a pilot again, and a match fixer doesn't get to play their sport again. It's harsh, but that's life. I don't see savior playing for KeSPA though. | ||
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