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On April 30 2015 04:58 GeLaar wrote:
Big thanks for translating the interview.
I find this really interesting, particularly the fact that he says that he apologised in an interview right after the scandal, because the worst thing, for me, was the fact that he apparently made no attempt to rehabilitate himself or even apologise.
However, as far as I recall, back when the scandal blew up the story was quite different from what he's saying. I remember one of the players who got caught (Hwasin, maybe?) quoting Savior as basically saying "I'm doing it, so why shouldn't you?". I also remember accusations that he had not only facilitated the match-fixing, but then had also kept the money for himself. Obviously I'm not saying that players who threw games deserved to get paid, but it would be a different level of low on Savior's side if he did that.
Anyway, I admit that the details are all a bit fuzzy for me now, but that leads me to wonder about the timing of this interview. The guy had 6 years to reach out to the community and try to make amends, but there was nothing. And after all this time we get "there is no proof"? This asshole got a (suspended) one-year jail sentence. Clearly a judge felt that there was enough proof of wrongdoing. Coming now and saying "ah, but you can't prove that i did this particular thing!" does nothing to make me warm up to him.
I'm not sure if there was more transparency in the Korean media, but in the English coverage (who did their best, don't mean to criticise), it was never very clear whether the convictions where for effectively all the match-fixing that took place, or just those cases they had the most definite proof for.
At this point it's really a he-said-they-said. It's not likely there'll be any new evidence coming out any more (and I don't think anybody would want to have it either, nothing more than digging up old hurts by now).
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@GeLaar i even believe that his sentence was for "participating in organized crime ring" (ddon't quote me on that but that's what i remember).
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On April 30 2015 05:28 nadafanboy42 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 04:58 GeLaar wrote:
Big thanks for translating the interview.
I find this really interesting, particularly the fact that he says that he apologised in an interview right after the scandal, because the worst thing, for me, was the fact that he apparently made no attempt to rehabilitate himself or even apologise.
However, as far as I recall, back when the scandal blew up the story was quite different from what he's saying. I remember one of the players who got caught (Hwasin, maybe?) quoting Savior as basically saying "I'm doing it, so why shouldn't you?". I also remember accusations that he had not only facilitated the match-fixing, but then had also kept the money for himself. Obviously I'm not saying that players who threw games deserved to get paid, but it would be a different level of low on Savior's side if he did that.
Anyway, I admit that the details are all a bit fuzzy for me now, but that leads me to wonder about the timing of this interview. The guy had 6 years to reach out to the community and try to make amends, but there was nothing. And after all this time we get "there is no proof"? This asshole got a (suspended) one-year jail sentence. Clearly a judge felt that there was enough proof of wrongdoing. Coming now and saying "ah, but you can't prove that i did this particular thing!" does nothing to make me warm up to him. At this point it's really a he-said-they-said. It's not likely there'll be any new evidence coming out any more (and I don't think anybody would want to have it either, nothing more than digging up old hurts by now).
That is exactly what I meant when I was questioning the timing of his statements. If the point was to have a reasonable conversation, I think one year after the scandal would have been a good time. But 6 years? It's not fresh in anybody's mind, and it comes down to, as you said, he-said-they-said. At this point, even if the Fomos interview he is referring to had never happened, how would we even find out? Would someone still come forward and challenge any statement he makes? That's why I would keep in mind that he has a lot of room to bend the truth.
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On April 30 2015 04:56 ArvickHero wrote:
I could draw an analogy to compare it to a rapist and the victim, or a murderer and the kin of the victim, but I have the feeling the point of the analogy would be missed and you'd say something dumb instead.
This is exactly what I meant about the emotionality. You really, genuinely think that you are in the same position as a victim of rape or someone close to a murder victim. This simply is not true. You and all the others who castigate Savior as you do are using him as a scapegoat - and for what? For the shrinking, and not the death, of a professional video game scene. There are less people playing the game, certainly, but those people who still play are superb at the game. Bisu, for example, continues to impress me with all of the VODs of him that I watch. You could say that the players aren't as good as they were in the good old days, but that doesn't change the fact that they are to us as stars in the sky. Nothing has been lost except a sense of prestige, and that sense of prestige is so important to you that you need something to blame for its downfall. And there's no way it could have been the gradual shrinking of the scene, oh no. It couldn't have been the rise of SC2. It must have been Savior, because he's someone who can be blamed. You can feel you're doing something for Broodwar by saying he should never come back, when in reality you're doing nothing at all. It's sad. The game you love will not and cannot be harmed by Savior streaming it or even by him playing it, just as DOTA2 is unharmed by Solo's continued play. All you have is your emotional state of feeling hurt, offended, jaded, or whatever else it happens to be. It all means nothing.
If you think my analysis is wrong, then please, go ahead and draw out the exact lines of reasoning that connect Savior to any personal harm you have experienced as well as the connection that makes Savior's involvement in the scene threatening while Solo's is not. If you can do these and believe them yourself, then perhaps he has caused you some harm. But otherwise, it's all just the thundering of your injured heart.
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That was an interesting read.
I really have no idea why he doesn't just move away from gaming if he doesn't want to deal with the ongoing aftereffects of the scandal he caused.
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On April 30 2015 04:56 ArvickHero wrote:
I could draw an analogy to compare it to a rapist and the victim, or a murderer and the kin of the victim, but I have the feeling the point of the analogy would be missed and you'd say something dumb instead.
imagine you'd made some analogy like that, how many rape victims and kin of murder victims do you believe would think that analogy would be completely fitting and alright?
+ Show Spoiler +like i don't know but i suppose only a very few if any at all
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On April 29 2015 21:56 FFW_Rude wrote:
You can't compare Luxury and SaviOr. Savior didn't try to kill his wife.....
no not player luxury... lol
i think this thread too many star2 people giving their opinion on why star1 people should forgive savior; they are not wrong because it is just opinion but they do not have place to just come and say others are wrong opinion.
star2 has people they do not like like winterstarcraft for cheating; i do not think they would be happy if someone said star2 cheater should continue make money from star2. and yet they say same thing for savior? lol
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
Hopefully none of you are writing a gigantic response to this thread, but I think closing this would be best.
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EPT
