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[Interview] Savior Years Later - Page 7

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capu
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Finland224 Posts
April 29 2015 10:13 GMT
#121
Am I the only one who thinks Savior should continue with bw to revitalize the scene and that way redeem himself? give up the politics. more gg more skill.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 10:23:53
April 29 2015 10:16 GMT
#122
On April 29 2015 18:04 letian wrote:
I was never that much concerned with what Savior did than with how serious was the reaction to matchfixing in Korea. Every sport on this planet is corrupted in this way or another and it is naive to state the opposite. Back then Savior and the others were young and stupid, it does not excuse them but it in no way justifies how it was presented to the public. Why it was made public in the first place? It is clear that none of them was involved in anything serious. I believe that it was a horrible mistake to make it all go public and screw ppl's lives so badly.


I'm with you on this. I mean look at the biggest sport in the world. Football. The FA is one of the most corrupt organisations on the planet and that's made little to no bearing on how popular the sport is. The worlds biggest sponsors sponsor Football and that's not going to change any time soon.

The way this was brought forward and exposed was handled terribly. They could've dealt with it behind closed doors and nobody would've ever known and ever cared. Also please, the people claiming the match fixing drove the sponsors away... Can you please stop spouting that fallacy that has no evidence? The sponsors for Broodwar were already moving away from BW long before the match fixing started. You're just grabbing on to the stupid mistakes of young people and ignoring the bigger picture to I'm not sure, give yoursellf comfort or something. BW was on the decline for a long time and it wasn't going to last forever.

Sponsors wanted to move onto something new that they thought would recreate 2006-7 era BW popularity and at first they thought it might be SC2, but then it soon became League of Legends. Video game "sports" are not as far developed and dug in as real sports. No eSport is ever going to last forever, especially when you have a single organisation (KeSPA) who was doing everything in their power to stop anyone else really getting involved. They made it a Korea only thing primarily and they choked out anyone not in their gentlemens club. They even continued to stream the game illegaly for years as they were profiting from the works of someone else who hadn't even given them permission to broadcast the damn thing. Look at the KeSPA vs Blizzard thing that also went on just before the Match fixing and just before SC2. The match fixing if anything made the smallest impact on eSports as a whole. It made the biggest effect on the players themselves who lost their livelyhoods and eventually people are going to need to forgive them if they ever want BW to be super popular again.

We're in a post KeSPA BW world. Why waste time bringing back their stupid ideals. Isn't that what everyone was excited about when SC2 came out? That KeSPA couldn't hold their ridiculous rulings anymore and GOM would be in charge.

On April 29 2015 11:37 Archaeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 10:29 Cele wrote:
On April 29 2015 10:19 Deathstar wrote:
On April 29 2015 10:14 Cele wrote:
Perhaps im blindsighted by the *epic stare into nothing sadface* propaganda photos lol, i dunno. Very interesting article though.


lol hmm. Interesting point you made here about the pics


yeah i was feeling for savior quite a bit when i read the article. However, replies made me aware that he is actually acting quite deceptive in his answers. Given that, it could very well be the case, that the photos were picked specifically to stir sentiments of pity in the reader, though i would'nt claim that, i have no proof at all and we're unable to get any.


Yeah, his answers seem like an attempt to downplay his involvement. He says that he wasn't involved in match fixing and then goes onto say that he was the middle man? Can't forget these games:



Claiming that first match especially was max fixed is strange. UpMagic did a relatively common build which Flash did rather often. He had a build order loss. They happened all the time to everyone. Does that mean every game that happened was match fixed? Second game also. I can't even count the number of games people have proxied something in a stupid place all throughout Broodwar. This was even 2 years before the match fixing scandal even came to light and even then they claimed it didn't go back that far.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Alcathous
Profile Joined December 2014
Netherlands219 Posts
April 29 2015 10:41 GMT
#123
You can't tell if a game is fixed or not just by looking at it.

We all remember how strange it was for Savior to suddenly play so bad and never get out of his slump.

He says a lot of funny stuff. Like how he ran the matchfixing scheme but never fixed himself, or that they didn't know it was wrong but did try to keep it secret.


I also don't get why all these progamers keep hanging around with bw. Is it really impossible to go back to a normal life as a former progamer? Matchfixing stigma or not?


He should have retired when he realized he was never going to be the no.1 player in the world again. You don't fix matches or run matchfixing rings when you are the no.1 player in the world.
He could have been whatever he wants to be besides a progamer by now.

Instead, he is still lying, apologizing for the unintended consequences and still begging for money through Africaa?
DwD
Profile Joined January 2010
Sweden8621 Posts
April 29 2015 10:49 GMT
#124
Man I don't give a fuck about all the hate.
Yes he probably matchfixed those 1 or 2 games(still no proof remember.) and he was the middleman and introduced other players into it.
Does that take away everything he achieved? Not for me. He was a true bonjwa. He took zerg from the bottom to the top and re-invented how people played the race. He destroyed players like Nada and Nal_Ra in MSL and OSL finals.

People make mistakes in their lives. Because he did he shouldn't be allowed to do what he enjoys? Playing the damn game that he is so good at? Fuck that. I will always be a fan no matter what.
The Maestro sAviOr fighting!
~ T-ARA ~ DREAMCATCHER ~ EVERGLOW ~ OH MY GIRL ~ DIA ~ BOL4 ~ CHUNGHA ~
BeStFAN
Profile Blog Joined April 2015
483 Posts
April 29 2015 10:58 GMT
#125
On April 29 2015 19:49 DwD wrote:
Man I don't give a fuck about all the hate.
Yes he probably matchfixed those 1 or 2 games(still no proof remember.) and he was the middleman and introduced other players into it.
Does that take away everything he achieved? Not for me. He was a true bonjwa. He took zerg from the bottom to the top and re-invented how people played the race. He destroyed players like Nada and Nal_Ra in MSL and OSL finals.

People make mistakes in their lives. Because he did he shouldn't be allowed to do what he enjoys? Playing the damn game that he is so good at? Fuck that. I will always be a fan no matter what.
The Maestro sAviOr fighting!


blind fans like you give savior luxury products lol
❤ BeSt... ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ #YEAROFKOMA #YEAROFKOMA #YEAROFKOMA ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ
BroskiDerpman
Profile Joined January 2015
58 Posts
April 29 2015 11:30 GMT
#126
On April 29 2015 19:41 Alcathous wrote:
You can't tell if a game is fixed or not just by looking at it.

We all remember how strange it was for Savior to suddenly play so bad and never get out of his slump.

He says a lot of funny stuff. Like how he ran the matchfixing scheme but never fixed himself, or that they didn't know it was wrong but did try to keep it secret.


I also don't get why all these progamers keep hanging around with bw. Is it really impossible to go back to a normal life as a former progamer? Matchfixing stigma or not?


He should have retired when he realized he was never going to be the no.1 player in the world again. You don't fix matches or run matchfixing rings when you are the no.1 player in the world.
He could have been whatever he wants to be besides a progamer by now.

Instead, he is still lying, apologizing for the unintended consequences and still begging for money through Africaa?


Most progamers end up in low end jobs due to a lack of university education which you can say in most East Asian countries essentially determines what kind of job and life you get for the rest of your life.
READY TO ROLL OUT
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19234 Posts
April 29 2015 11:45 GMT
#127
On April 29 2015 19:58 BeStFAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 19:49 DwD wrote:
Man I don't give a fuck about all the hate.
Yes he probably matchfixed those 1 or 2 games(still no proof remember.) and he was the middleman and introduced other players into it.
Does that take away everything he achieved? Not for me. He was a true bonjwa. He took zerg from the bottom to the top and re-invented how people played the race. He destroyed players like Nada and Nal_Ra in MSL and OSL finals.

People make mistakes in their lives. Because he did he shouldn't be allowed to do what he enjoys? Playing the damn game that he is so good at? Fuck that. I will always be a fan no matter what.
The Maestro sAviOr fighting!


blind fans like you give savior (Z)Luxury products lol

I see what you did there!
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
April 29 2015 11:56 GMT
#128
Nice find, almost kinda makes you feel sorry for him.......almost.
knuckle
jinyung2
Profile Joined November 2014
Luxembourg1455 Posts
April 29 2015 12:02 GMT
#129
On April 29 2015 19:16 Qikz wrote:
Also please, the people claiming the match fixing drove the sponsors away... Can you please stop spouting that fallacy that has no evidence? The sponsors for Broodwar were already moving away from BW long before the match fixing started. You're just grabbing on to the stupid mistakes of young people and ignoring the bigger picture to I'm not sure, give yourself comfort or something. BW was on the decline for a long time and it wasn't going to last forever.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/closed-threads/435981-savior-and-movie-invited-to-scntvs-bw-tournament?page=12#231

It might not be concrete evidence but there's a change before and after matchfixing that is worth noting. Another point to look at is the frequency of Starleagues in a year before and after matchfixing.

If anything what you've said in bold is what there's literally no evidence of.

lollllll
Argentina
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
April 29 2015 12:11 GMT
#130
I'd feel sorry for him if I actually believed him. I find it hard to trust that someone acting as a middleman was not tempted to get a easy few grand himself.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
April 29 2015 12:38 GMT
#131
I understand how some of you are mad because of what he did. What i dont understand how any of you can be angry at him for still playing BW after the scandal. I mean you guys really complain that he has a donate button on his stream? If you remember the match fixing scandal, then you should be old enough to know that you actually need money to live in this world, or do all of you still live with parents and not know what rent/mortage is? Or are you saying that he should live on the streets hungry and thristy because he should punish himself for being literally the devil. If he was found quilty of murder in finland on 2008 he would most likely be already a free man by now, but you still continue to hate.

If he still somewhat enjoys playing and gets good enough money from him, I would insult him for being an idiot for quitting. He is literally doing the only correct choice.
Silentness
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2821 Posts
April 29 2015 12:45 GMT
#132
On April 29 2015 02:47 ArvickHero wrote:
김봉준 is britney, whose team used the matchfixing scandal as an excuse to cut him loose. Matchfixing is the official reason, but many people suspect that it was because he's ugly, and the team was looking to cut him out for any reason really. Tangentially, being ugly is also pretty much why Effort retired his first time, because CJ was offering him such a shit contract despite his results (because he was ugly, thus not marketing very well).

As for Savior .. dude needs to just realize that he needs to leave everything Starcraft related if he ever wants to find peace. Get the money he's saved up from all his donations and shit, and just get out of the country, start a new life. Dude complains about how people still harass him about the matchfixing scandal, when he keeps shamelessly playing, streaming and competing in the game that he destroyed for more money .. give me a break jesus.


Wow really? I kind of liked Effort because his facial expressions resemble Zerg features. He wasn't one of those pretty boy K-pop wannabes, he had that rough zerg look going for him (which I LIKED). It's crazy that they would try to kick him from the team because of his appearance.
GL HF... YOLO..lololollol.
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 12:58:45
April 29 2015 12:56 GMT
#133
I so want to forgive my idol. I just want it. After this interview i was almost there.

But i just can't. I hope for him the best because i once loved him so much and hate him as much at the same time..

He will still be the best BW player in my heart. Just next to Boxer. But never will i be abble to forgive him.

On April 29 2015 19:58 BeStFAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 19:49 DwD wrote:
Man I don't give a fuck about all the hate.
Yes he probably matchfixed those 1 or 2 games(still no proof remember.) and he was the middleman and introduced other players into it.
Does that take away everything he achieved? Not for me. He was a true bonjwa. He took zerg from the bottom to the top and re-invented how people played the race. He destroyed players like Nada and Nal_Ra in MSL and OSL finals.

People make mistakes in their lives. Because he did he shouldn't be allowed to do what he enjoys? Playing the damn game that he is so good at? Fuck that. I will always be a fan no matter what.
The Maestro sAviOr fighting!


blind fans like you give savior luxury products lol


You can't compare Luxury and SaviOr. Savior didn't try to kill his wife.....
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
April 29 2015 13:19 GMT
#134
On April 29 2015 18:23 letian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 04:23 ArvickHero wrote:
For the record, I'm pretty mad that Hwasin is playing BW again and I think it is hypocritical that people are being so lenient about it. I don't think a life-time ban from the game is unreasonable, as the match-fixers of the infamous Black Sox scandal had received the same punishment.

The match-fixers pretty much crippled a thriving e-Sports scene, and either endangered or ended the livelihoods of everyone else in the industry. They undermined the integrity of the game, causing great damage to the trust of the sponsors and viewers. It's not unreasonable to expect the match-fixers to stay the fuck away from the game after causing it so much harm, because they were too damn selfish and greedy. They didn't just harm themselves--they harmed everyone else, and Savior is the most shameless about it.

Yet, Savior insists that it's still his right to earn money via streaming and playing in tournaments, because he's a greedy lazy fuck that doesn't want to do anything else. If he was REALLY repentant about his actions, and insisting that he just wants to play the game because he loves it, then he could EASILY turn off the donate balloon function for his stream. But he doesn't, because all he cares about is money. Maybe he doesn't have to move out of the country, but he could at least TRY to make a living off of something not related to Starcraft. Perhaps this is why Hwasin gets a free pass in some people's books--because he showed himself to be not completely pathetic and established his own business, making a livelihood off of something that isn't the game he helped destroy. For that reason alone he's better than Savior (but he still shouldn't stream or compete).

ArvickHero, I don't know what is your problem but you're not a good person and I'd rather have a chat with a match fixer than sit with you at the same table.

lol i totally agree with him

savior should be banned for life from anything having to do with BW
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6579 Posts
April 29 2015 13:37 GMT
#135
all the ex progamers started playing at a young age,bw always been in their life,for years they played it 10 12 hours a day ? idk, hell even for me that im no pro or anything is hard to out from bw,its been always a way to fix my sadness or angry,
savior is already banned from every competitive tourney possible,there is not comeback for him,but i can understand he keep playing ,afterall he is one of the guys that contribute to the history of this game,in the good and in the bad yes.
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
April 29 2015 13:40 GMT
#136
On April 29 2015 22:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 18:23 letian wrote:
On April 29 2015 04:23 ArvickHero wrote:
For the record, I'm pretty mad that Hwasin is playing BW again and I think it is hypocritical that people are being so lenient about it. I don't think a life-time ban from the game is unreasonable, as the match-fixers of the infamous Black Sox scandal had received the same punishment.

The match-fixers pretty much crippled a thriving e-Sports scene, and either endangered or ended the livelihoods of everyone else in the industry. They undermined the integrity of the game, causing great damage to the trust of the sponsors and viewers. It's not unreasonable to expect the match-fixers to stay the fuck away from the game after causing it so much harm, because they were too damn selfish and greedy. They didn't just harm themselves--they harmed everyone else, and Savior is the most shameless about it.

Yet, Savior insists that it's still his right to earn money via streaming and playing in tournaments, because he's a greedy lazy fuck that doesn't want to do anything else. If he was REALLY repentant about his actions, and insisting that he just wants to play the game because he loves it, then he could EASILY turn off the donate balloon function for his stream. But he doesn't, because all he cares about is money. Maybe he doesn't have to move out of the country, but he could at least TRY to make a living off of something not related to Starcraft. Perhaps this is why Hwasin gets a free pass in some people's books--because he showed himself to be not completely pathetic and established his own business, making a livelihood off of something that isn't the game he helped destroy. For that reason alone he's better than Savior (but he still shouldn't stream or compete).

ArvickHero, I don't know what is your problem but you're not a good person and I'd rather have a chat with a match fixer than sit with you at the same table.

lol i totally agree with him

savior should be banned for life from anything having to do with BW


Who would enforce this ban? Korean goverment? World police? Blizzard? Angry nerds?
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
April 29 2015 13:44 GMT
#137
On April 29 2015 22:40 NasusAndDraven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
On April 29 2015 18:23 letian wrote:
On April 29 2015 04:23 ArvickHero wrote:
For the record, I'm pretty mad that Hwasin is playing BW again and I think it is hypocritical that people are being so lenient about it. I don't think a life-time ban from the game is unreasonable, as the match-fixers of the infamous Black Sox scandal had received the same punishment.

The match-fixers pretty much crippled a thriving e-Sports scene, and either endangered or ended the livelihoods of everyone else in the industry. They undermined the integrity of the game, causing great damage to the trust of the sponsors and viewers. It's not unreasonable to expect the match-fixers to stay the fuck away from the game after causing it so much harm, because they were too damn selfish and greedy. They didn't just harm themselves--they harmed everyone else, and Savior is the most shameless about it.

Yet, Savior insists that it's still his right to earn money via streaming and playing in tournaments, because he's a greedy lazy fuck that doesn't want to do anything else. If he was REALLY repentant about his actions, and insisting that he just wants to play the game because he loves it, then he could EASILY turn off the donate balloon function for his stream. But he doesn't, because all he cares about is money. Maybe he doesn't have to move out of the country, but he could at least TRY to make a living off of something not related to Starcraft. Perhaps this is why Hwasin gets a free pass in some people's books--because he showed himself to be not completely pathetic and established his own business, making a livelihood off of something that isn't the game he helped destroy. For that reason alone he's better than Savior (but he still shouldn't stream or compete).

ArvickHero, I don't know what is your problem but you're not a good person and I'd rather have a chat with a match fixer than sit with you at the same table.

lol i totally agree with him

savior should be banned for life from anything having to do with BW


Who would enforce this ban? Korean goverment? World police? Blizzard? Angry nerds?

not saying its enforceable, hence the "should"

its like pete rose getting banned for life from baseball
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
April 29 2015 13:44 GMT
#138


Thanks for the read.
Alcathous
Profile Joined December 2014
Netherlands219 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:46:58
April 29 2015 13:45 GMT
#139
On April 29 2015 20:30 BroskiDerpman wrote:

Most progamers end up in low end jobs due to a lack of university education which you can say in most East Asian countries essentially determines what kind of job and life you get for the rest of your life.


No one is born with a university education. Lot's of athletes have to go back to school at a later age once their career is over.

And even so, why don't they move on and work a lower or middle tier job. Is it really better to stream for the rest of your life?

I mean, even Testie quit streaming by now.
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 13:53:19
April 29 2015 13:52 GMT
#140
On April 29 2015 22:44 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 22:40 NasusAndDraven wrote:
On April 29 2015 22:19 Hot_Bid wrote:
On April 29 2015 18:23 letian wrote:
On April 29 2015 04:23 ArvickHero wrote:
For the record, I'm pretty mad that Hwasin is playing BW again and I think it is hypocritical that people are being so lenient about it. I don't think a life-time ban from the game is unreasonable, as the match-fixers of the infamous Black Sox scandal had received the same punishment.

The match-fixers pretty much crippled a thriving e-Sports scene, and either endangered or ended the livelihoods of everyone else in the industry. They undermined the integrity of the game, causing great damage to the trust of the sponsors and viewers. It's not unreasonable to expect the match-fixers to stay the fuck away from the game after causing it so much harm, because they were too damn selfish and greedy. They didn't just harm themselves--they harmed everyone else, and Savior is the most shameless about it.

Yet, Savior insists that it's still his right to earn money via streaming and playing in tournaments, because he's a greedy lazy fuck that doesn't want to do anything else. If he was REALLY repentant about his actions, and insisting that he just wants to play the game because he loves it, then he could EASILY turn off the donate balloon function for his stream. But he doesn't, because all he cares about is money. Maybe he doesn't have to move out of the country, but he could at least TRY to make a living off of something not related to Starcraft. Perhaps this is why Hwasin gets a free pass in some people's books--because he showed himself to be not completely pathetic and established his own business, making a livelihood off of something that isn't the game he helped destroy. For that reason alone he's better than Savior (but he still shouldn't stream or compete).

ArvickHero, I don't know what is your problem but you're not a good person and I'd rather have a chat with a match fixer than sit with you at the same table.

lol i totally agree with him

savior should be banned for life from anything having to do with BW


Who would enforce this ban? Korean goverment? World police? Blizzard? Angry nerds?

not saying its enforceable, hence the "should"

its like pete rose getting banned for life from baseball

So if it was enforcable he would be? Anyway Savior went on trial and served his lawful punishment. Justice has been served in the most literal meaning. I dont get what else there is to grieve about.
Also where there is demand, there will be supply, thats how free market works. Thats why he streams.
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